These are chat archives for AvaloniaUI/Avalonia

9th
Jul 2016
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jul 09 2016 06:22
Yes that is what I meant
Wiesław Šoltés
@wieslawsoltes
Jul 09 2016 21:49
Avalonia is No 3 on HN right now :)
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jul 09 2016 21:58
Oh cool! Unfortunately I'm traveling today!
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Jul 09 2016 22:00
Cool!
Right now I'm working on upgrading our use of Reactive Extensions to version 3.0.
They changed the Nuget package names so it's been a little annoying.
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jul 09 2016 22:09
Though I'm in the US now si at least I've gained a few
Though Minneapolis airport WiFi sucks apparently...
Gained a few hours
Florian Beijers
@zersiax
Jul 09 2016 22:12
Hello :) I just came across this platform on Hackernews and may have a somewhat painful question for you guys :)
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Jul 09 2016 22:12
Ask away!
Florian Beijers
@zersiax
Jul 09 2016 22:13
has accessibility at all been considered when writing this cross-platform toolkit? I see for example on Windows, direct2d is used to visually render the controls. But do these controls allow for any UIA info to be transmitted?
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Jul 09 2016 22:15
I'm not sure about that. I don't think we've focused on accessibility yet, but it should be possible. WPF has support for accessibility and also renders via direct2d.
Florian Beijers
@zersiax
Jul 09 2016 22:16
Not sure about WPF internals. I know WPF can be used to design accessible user interfaces, but I don't know what is done to render the properties added in the XAML markup in such a way that neat UIa information is rendered to assistive tech
what I do know and am quite certain of is that I, as a blind computer user, wouldn
Johan Larsson
@JohanLarsson
Jul 09 2016 22:17
how does the accessability stuff in wpf work in practice?
I only use it for UI-tests and it seems pretty messy
Florian Beijers
@zersiax
Jul 09 2016 22:17
't be able to use interfaces if this hasn't been considered, and I wouldn't be able to use the toolkit as a blind developer either because ..well ..a blind dev making inaccessible apps is somewhat incredible in a bad way :)
depends on how well you write your XAML really :) a lot of things tend to work for the most part, but for example items added to a list have to explicitly override the toString() method of their corresponding, for example, c# object to get proper text added to the UIA tree
Johan Larsson
@JohanLarsson
Jul 09 2016 22:19
textblocks in templates are suppressed right?
Florian Beijers
@zersiax
Jul 09 2016 22:20
fraid you are asking the wrong person :) I mainly do back-end stuff, not really familiar with WPF all that much. There's loas of blog posts on this though
Johan Larsson
@JohanLarsson
Jul 09 2016 22:21
ok np, was just curious as I thought you had much experience with it
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Jul 09 2016 22:21
I'm taking a look at the provider api right now. It should be possible to add support for accessibility on windows. But we'd have to find an accessibility framework for other platforms as well.
The provider api is clunky though.
Florian Beijers
@zersiax
Jul 09 2016 22:22
as a user, yep :) But not as a dev yet :)
hmmm ..OS X and iOS both use the CocoaTouch framework to render accessible UIs, not sure in what way that can be mapped to openGL-drawn UI elements though. Android idem ditto
reason I jumped on this is simple: I see more and more toolkits pop up that do this exact thing and all apps rendered by these toolkits are completely unusable for people using assistive tech, something that is almost impossible to achieve if you stick with standard controls. So ...you can yell at the app dev for not using standard controls, but you're usually too late and things simply can't be rewritten anymore. Its a different matter if toolkits at least have some support for app devs to work with
Florian Beijers
@zersiax
Jul 09 2016 22:28
also, a11y is more and more a thing for higher-ups as well, getting legalized to different degrees of extreme depending on where you go. Used to be this mainly concerned websites, but for example in the EU apps made by public sector vendors fall under the revized a11y laws as well so ...yeah ...
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Jul 09 2016 22:28
Can you open up an issue on the repo for this so we don't lose track?
Florian Beijers
@zersiax
Jul 09 2016 22:28
will do
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Jul 09 2016 22:28
Thanks!
I'll keep investigating accessibility and working on an implementation plan, at least for windows.
Florian Beijers
@zersiax
Jul 09 2016 22:32
issue 585 created
Johan Larsson
@JohanLarsson
Jul 09 2016 22:32
one nice side effect of accessibility is that it enables UI-tests
hard to write controls without them ime
Florian Beijers
@zersiax
Jul 09 2016 22:33
yup, tests like that pretty much are as blind as I am :P
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Jul 09 2016 22:34
I'm not sure if we'll get UI-tests as simply as you think. The accessibility APIs vary widely between each platform, so it might be harder than you think to have a convergent UI-test framework.
Johan Larsson
@JohanLarsson
Jul 09 2016 22:35
yeah probably as with all things
Florian Beijers
@zersiax
Jul 09 2016 22:35
would you want uI tests to converge like that anyway though? I reckon UI tests are pretty platform-specific?
ah well ...its 1 in the morning here. Def keep the ticket up to date if you find something :)
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Jul 09 2016 22:41
The goal is the only non-xplat code is the application entry if possible.
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jul 09 2016 23:25
hi @zersiax ! yes it's definitely something we need to do
someone else already brought it up a few months ago
i don't really know much about that stuff right now though unfortunately
(all praise in-flight WIFI)
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Jul 09 2016 23:26
@grokys I'm looking into it right now to try to figure it out. I'll post a summary of what I find into the issue.
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jul 09 2016 23:26
that would be great
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Jul 09 2016 23:28
So far iOS seems pretty easy, Windows is well documented, but more complex of a system. I'm looking into Android and OSX as well. Not sure where to find info for Linux though.