These are chat archives for AvaloniaUI/Avalonia

10th
Jan 2017
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 16:58 UTC
@danwalmsley the fact that you can achieve that much with avalonia is impressive I must say
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:00 UTC
@ronnyek the sky is the limit now!
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:01 UTC
ehh
I cant play until its dotnet =(
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:01 UTC
I think we are really waiting for vs2017
to be released
then we have the new csproj tooling
and its stable
I am also desperately waiting!
@ronnyek what are you looking to develop?
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:02 UTC
well first thing... cross platform installation framework
including console UI as well
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:03 UTC
I am very interested in that!
I could utilize that for Avalon studio
would that include online update ability?
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:03 UTC
yep
of list of features to include, it'd be including component composition (similar to what I understand vs.net new installer does)
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:04 UTC
excellent, when you get started ping me a message, I could be an early tester!
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:04 UTC
online update
well I suppose thats the good thing... I could get started now... just would need to make sure I test everywhere I can
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:05 UTC
I think you could make the core project .net core or .net standard
with command line
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:05 UTC
seems like the dealbreakers for the issue AvaloniaUI/Avalonia#314
we'rent super gigantic
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:05 UTC
and then start developing ui once avalonia is .net core
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:06 UTC
and seeing how fast some of the core guys here were knocking out completely diff rendering engiens, and switching to skia and stuff
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:06 UTC
someone made it run already, and posted screen shots
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:06 UTC
I am surprised it's kinda been just sitting around for ~1yr
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:06 UTC
but it needed finishing
I think the hold back was some of the dependencies initially, but that is no longer an issue
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:06 UTC
I guess the promise netstandard2 (even though its completely open ended timeline) is appealing for not having to jump hurdles unnecessarily
omnixaml got updated
?
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:06 UTC
and now its not wanting to maintain 2 sets of project files
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:07 UTC
I can understand that
but is that really the end of the world
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:07 UTC
but I think its really close, now vs2017 rc already supports this
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:07 UTC
I saw reference saing @curea was looking into it
but no comments, links etc
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:07 UTC
I was speaking to him a few days ago, I believe he is still going to look at it
iv not seen anything I only know he told me he was going to look at it
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:08 UTC
I am good at that kinda shit... I'm no good at the voodoo that is making skia work as a backend, and making it cross platform, but I think those other guys got that squared
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:08 UTC
@kekekes did a demo of something running
are you interested in mac or Linux mainly?
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:09 UTC
ehh
stuff I build is primarily linux/windows
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:09 UTC
my brother was woking on getting skiasharp working on linux
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:09 UTC
but even the windows installation framework stuff is.... just terrible.
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:09 UTC
be he has stalled awaiting new rendering system
completely agree
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:09 UTC
yeah, sounds like that is holding stuff up
I think they had linux skia working
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:10 UTC
its run,
but we don't have it integrated to main branch
problem is mainly that skiasharp don't provide binaries for linux
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:10 UTC
@danwalmsley you should list your requirements... someplace I can keep on hand for the installer stuff
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:10 UTC
do you have a repo yet, I could put some issues
I really need number 1 feature
is being able to manage and update extensions (or components) as well as the main application
so main application can offer updates
and either force updates of components, or let use choose to update and maybe roll back specific ones
I'm sure what I just said is probably a huge task though
thats not the name I'm going to keep
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:12 UTC
ok sure
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:12 UTC
but I dont have a better name yet =)
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:12 UTC
shall I add issues? or just a wiki with suggested features?
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:12 UTC
whatever is easier for you
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 17:13 UTC
ok have to drive home, but I will post some ideas tonight
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:13 UTC
I think the hardest part of the whole thing is to try and protect against failed upgrades, installs
and do so in an efficient manner, because even msi doesnt do that well
who was the person that did all the skia/diff rendering frameworks 9not the engien itself)
was that you @grokys ?
were the cross platform builds such that I'm not deploying my executables with runtimes for every platform I'd be running on?
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 17:53 UTC
hi @ronnyek - what do you mean by "skia/diff rendering frameworks"?
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:53 UTC
well I remember someone was getting renderign working on android
then ios
then windows
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 17:54 UTC
it was originally @kekekeks that did the work on android/iOS
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:55 UTC
my question was basically if you end up with a binary you can throw on andorid, and throw on windows etc... or if it kicks out a diff binary for each platform
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 17:55 UTC
well the mobile platforms are/were (they're not working currently) different from the other platforms as they use xamarin, so they were different binaries
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:55 UTC
ok thats fair
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 17:55 UTC
but windows/linux/mac should all use the same binary
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:55 UTC
bitchin
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 17:55 UTC
at runtime they will link to different libraries
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:55 UTC
but you are still re-writing the rendering engines? =)
er engine
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 17:56 UTC
well all the platforms use most of the same rendering code
but there's a low-level backend for direct2d, skia and cairo
on windows you can use any of them, on other platforms the best choice is skia
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:57 UTC
yeah... that makes sense actually... I am refereing comments on the .net core issue where it said you were re-writing rendering engine to prevent draw entire window on each draw
oh def
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 17:57 UTC
oh well it will be
skiasharp doesn't currently work on linux
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:57 UTC
hahah wtf?
it HAS, has it not?
I feel like I've gotten that part going
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 17:58 UTC
mono/SkiaSharp#90
is the issue - so yeah it does work, but not via nuget afaik
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 17:58 UTC
I thought @kekekeks had it working both via drm and x
ahh
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 17:59 UTC
we're kind of waiting for the whole .net stack to catch up to xplat
but regarding .net core - i think when .net standard 2 is ready we should be able to easily move
before that it might be harder
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 18:01 UTC
yeah
the problem is I dont think anyone knows when =)
shit
sounds liek the skiasharp thing is wonky
yeah I'd hope the way it COULD work
some way of bootstrapping/installing a specific version of skia on the linux box
skiasharp just looks for that
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 18:04 UTC
i'm hoping we should be able to update our PCL libs to .net platform 1.x when VS2017 is released
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 18:04 UTC
so as to not have to distribute an SPECIFIC linux version
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 18:05 UTC
yeah it's a limitation of nuget i believe
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 18:05 UTC
I will say the .net core stuff is confusing as hell
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 18:05 UTC
NuGet/Home#3114
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 18:06 UTC
well I know that technically you could say skiasharp does all the platform determination and knows which wrapper to pull
the actual native is gonna be diff per linux dist potentially
but skia versions signatures really shouldnt change across platforms
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 18:07 UTC
i think the issue i linked above from miguel explains the situation pretty well
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 18:09 UTC
I think some of what he's saying points out the problem right up front tho
I get that the native binaries are linux specific
but how some of the .net stuff is supported cross platform is completely unacceptable
to build on my windows box and deploy this exe to a linux box I have to specify the target of ubuntu16.04
seeeeeeeems dumb
seems dumb you'd even have to specify anything about the fact you're building for linux
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 18:13 UTC
i didn't know that - i'd assumed the binary would work xplat
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 18:13 UTC
I couldnt get that working
if I copied entire code base over to linux box and did dotnet run
it'd compile and run
also
if there are dependencies on nuget team for anything
I'm afraid we're doomed.
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 18:21 UTC
hmm, i wonder why that is?
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 21:19 UTC
@grokys what do we use sprache for?
because its nugget package is not compatible with .net standard
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 21:20 UTC
omnixaml uses it for markup binding parsing
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 21:20 UTC
I cant add avalonia nuget to same library as one that has entityframeworkcore nuget
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 21:20 UTC
and we use it for parsing style selectors
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 21:20 UTC
ok
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 21:20 UTC
oh no why is that?
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 21:21 UTC
Package Microsoft.EntityFrameworkCore 1.1.0 is not compatible with portable45-net45+win8
if I migrate to the lowest compatible framework
then I cant install avalonia
I think actually if I use a non-portable class library it will work
was there issues moving to .net standard did you say?
image.png
@grokys what selection would you make here for an Avalonia project?
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Jan 10 2017 21:26 UTC
blob
danwalmsley
@danwalmsley
Jan 10 2017 21:34 UTC
thanks!
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Jan 10 2017 22:28 UTC
@grokys What's the status on the scenegraph rewrite?
I'm working on a video control toolkit for Avalonia and i want to interface with some of the Direct2D1 backend changes
And also make our Direct2D1 backend support UWP-ready
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Jan 10 2017 22:38 UTC
Both will be much easier once the Swap Chain features are merged in.
Maybe you can spin those out into their own PR?
Weston
@ronnyek
Jan 10 2017 23:59 UTC
somone had a avalonia xaml designer, did they not