These are chat archives for AvaloniaUI/Avalonia

24th
Oct 2017
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 08:41
that would be great if we can do it
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 21:12
@sdoroff really nice work on calendar - i've got a few comments on your PR, let me know if there's anything that you need clarifying
sdoroff
@sdoroff
Oct 24 2017 21:39
@grokys your comments make sense. I'll hopefully have some time in the next couple of days to make the necessary changes
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 21:40
ok great!
i think i really need to start thinking about doing some perf work...
opening that page is really slow on my machine
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 21:41
That's probably because of Grid
I think we've had issues with its performance before
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 21:41
yeah, that's probably partly it, but there's a lot of places we can improve
like inherited properties for example, they're really slow at the moment i think
there's also lots of binding errors showing up that i need to investigate
btw, how are we looking for beta1? we should probably leave Calendar out of that release
i know @jkoritzinsky has a few fixes waiting
i think the other things in the pre-beta and beta1 milestone can probably be punted
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 21:55
Well, I still need to update VS extension to use the new previewer
And that will take quite a while
So I don't see why we shouldn't merge calendar
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 21:57
oh ok, i didn't know we had that planned for the beta
i vaguely say you and @jkoritzinsky talking about a feature freeze so i thought we were just fixing up a few bugs and releasing
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 21:58
Right now our VS extension can't work with .NET Core projects properly
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 21:58
ah ok, yeah that's a big problem
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 21:58
The only way to get previewer working is to use multitargeting
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Oct 24 2017 21:59
I just didn't want us adding more features to the milestone
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 21:59
yeah, i think a feature freeze is a good idea, but i wasn't aware that the previewer didn't work with .net core
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 21:59

i thought we were just fixing up a few bugs and releasing

Why would that prevent us from accepting stand-alone PRs from people?

Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:00
to prevent adding bugs faster than we can fix them before the beta
but if the new previewer is going to take a while, i guess there's no need for a feature freeze
though, the VS extension can have a different release schedule to avalonia itself, no?
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:03
Yeah, but there might be issues with remote previewer infrastructure
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:03
yeah sure
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:04
Well, I'd like to release some kind of beta preview
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:04
you mean another alpha?
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:04
Not exactly
Something to fix bugs before the major Beta release
Because there would be many of them
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:04
well a preview of a beta would be an alpha...
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:04
pre-beta )
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:05
that's an alpha! :)
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:05
beta1-preview5 in microsoft tongue
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:05
god please don't use MS versioning as an argument ;)
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:05
Basically I want a preview release on NuGet
To update libraries like OxyPlot and AvalonEdit
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:06
but you don't want users using the release?
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:06
I don't want to be loud about it
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Oct 24 2017 22:06
You don't want use to release beta1-preview1-rc3? :smile:
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:06
haha
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:07
If we release something called "beta" and it will break like VS2017 RTM
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:07
This message was deleted
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:07
that will ruin the first impression
So I want some kind of preview release
So existing users can test it properly
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Oct 24 2017 22:08
Makes sense to me
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:08
yeah, i dunno. a preview of a beta just sounds too MS-namey to me. a pre-beta is an alpha. but maybe it's just me
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:08
release something, mention everyone in this chat with @
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Oct 24 2017 22:09
Beta 0 maybe?
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:09
Call it 0.5.99-alpha then
just make it clear that beta will be released soon and we want to test and fix things before that
No need for public announcement and reddit/hackernews posts
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:11
¯_(ツ)_/¯ we're probably bikeshedding, so i'm not going to argue too hard, but IMO it should be just alpha 6. the amount that's changed, and the stability is roughly the same as with our other alphas
we don't have do a public announcement though
Eric Dunaway
@EricDunaway
Oct 24 2017 22:11
Maybe its just me point but I assumed most people were already on nightly builds
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:12
but i'll let @jkoritzinsky have the deciding vode
@GrimR3 yeah i think so
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:12

Maybe its just me point but I assumed most people were already on nightly builds

Which is why we need to make nuget.org releases more often

Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:12
yeah we should do that too
would we want to move to time-based nuget.org releases?
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Oct 24 2017 22:13
If "soon" is supposed to be within the next month or so, then lets do 0.5.99-alpha. If its going to be farther out like we usually have, then we should do Alpha 6
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:13
Yep, something like that
Pick more or less stable build
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Oct 24 2017 22:13
Either time-based or just more frequent
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:14
I was thinking about making Beta1 release in December or January
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:14
sounds good to me
i might spend some time on documentation between now and then... i think that's probably what we need most right now
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:14
The thing is that first Beta release is something that lots of people are waiting for
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Oct 24 2017 22:15
Sounds good
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:15
yeah
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:15
When I ask people if they've tried avalonia
They usually answer something like "well, after the first beta, I guess"
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:15
yeah, i can imagine
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:15
So we need to not ruin the first impression
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Oct 24 2017 22:16
And I know microsoft is watching our progress from "afar"
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:16
That's why I want some kind of a grace period
Eric Dunaway
@EricDunaway
Oct 24 2017 22:16
@grokys i think docs cleanup and consolidation is important. It can be a pain to find things right now
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:16
between deciding that's we are ready to release
And making the actual "Beta" release
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Oct 24 2017 22:17
makes sense
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:17
ok, sounds like we have a plan
btw anyone have an idea for a tutorial app to build than can show off avalonia and mvvm etc?
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:19
Ehm, port Northwind one?
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:19
hmm maybe, though i always found northwind so boring
who wants to write that app in 2017?
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:20
Pizza ordering app then
Jeremy Koritzinsky
@jkoritzinsky
Oct 24 2017 22:21
We could do what webdev does and only do Todo apps
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:23
haha yeah everyone loves pizza!
that's a great idea
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:23
Or reimplement some of Angular4 examples and compare memory consumption
Get right to the selling point
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:24
any angular example you were thinking of?
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:26
Or write a messenger
everyone is writing messengers these days
Telegram client or something like that
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:27
i'd be worried most of the details of that would be in the messaging itself rather than avalonia
Eric Dunaway
@EricDunaway
Oct 24 2017 22:28
Desktop version of Gittir. if the api is public
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:29
It has IRC bridge
Which simplifies the realtime messaging part
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:30
it's a possibility, i'll look into how good the libraries for the messaging part are
if we can do it with just a few library calls it'd be a good idea
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:31
There were some good ones for IRC, I think
But gitter client is a good idea
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:31
i do think maybe a pizza app would be nice though. you were probably joking ;)
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:31
Well, the thing about the Pizza app is that we can show how to do fancy stuff
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:32
pizzalonia
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:32
like transitions, etc
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:32
yeah, that's what i was thinking
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:32
BTW
Regarding transitions
Can we add Transition property to Setter class?
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:32
hmmm, interesting idea
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:33
It would work in a really organic way with our class-based styling system
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:33
yeah, that might be a good way to do it
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:34
That will also allow visual states to be properly implemented on top of pseudoclasses
since underlying styling system will already have transition support
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:34
yeah... hmmm...
i do think that should come after beta1 but i like the idea
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:35
Visual state groups would be, basically, groups of mutually-exclusive pseudoclasses
Yeah, that's stuff for the future
It's just something that came into my mind today
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:37
i think it's kind of similar to how css works, though i could be wrong
hmm, not quite it looks like
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:40
It works with the whole selector, I think
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:40
oh no, css does have something like that https://www.w3schools.com/css/css3_transitions.asp
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:41
transition: width 2s, height 4s;
That's a bit ugly
We should do that on Setter level
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:42
only think with doing it at the setter level is that it wouldn't work when setting properties outside a style
which i imagine people might want to do?
Eric Dunaway
@EricDunaway
Oct 24 2017 22:42
Any planned support for responsive design and or breakpoints?
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:43
not currently @GrimR3 - i think that sort of thing will come when we've got the basics down
or when someone proposes and implements it ;)
i'm honestly not even sure what those features would look like atm
they should probably be planned though because we don't want something that we immediately want to replace
Eric Dunaway
@EricDunaway
Oct 24 2017 22:46
Is there an example of how to get a popup to stay relative to a window or element?
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:46
@GrimR3 something like AvaloniaUI/Avalonia#630 ?
Eric Dunaway
@EricDunaway
Oct 24 2017 22:47
Yeah i was going to see if i could get
It to listen to parent window position change and resize events
Just curious if
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:48
yeah, we don't have anything built-in currently i think that'd be the best way to do it for now
Eric Dunaway
@EricDunaway
Oct 24 2017 22:48
K
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:49
does WPF or UWP have something like that?
Eric Dunaway
@EricDunaway
Oct 24 2017 22:49
Gah android gitter app sends whatever you have typef if txt box looses focus such as when clicking a chat link
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 22:50
hehe
Eric Dunaway
@EricDunaway
Oct 24 2017 22:52
I was looking to implement something like a splitview in overlay mode for hamburger menu
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:52
Regarding popups
And absolute positioning in general
There is a problem with that in Wayland
Eric Dunaway
@EricDunaway
Oct 24 2017 22:57
I'm not sure about wayland api/protocol but couldn't all avalonia windows/popups be drawn on one single surface
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 22:57
Yep, we can draw popups on top of the window itself
Like browsers do
But that's a bad solution
Window might be too small to hold popup contents
Eric Dunaway
@EricDunaway
Oct 24 2017 23:00
not a problem for me i just want hamburger menu and maybe toast notifications
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 23:00
i don't think either of those should use popups?
Eric Dunaway
@EricDunaway
Oct 24 2017 23:05
How would you do it? I thought dropdown in avalonia ui used a popup
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 23:06
yeah it does. but a hamburger menu is different to a dropdown because when it's "pinned" it will affect the layout of the window, no?
that is the content will move to the side to make way for the menu
Eric Dunaway
@EricDunaway
Oct 24 2017 23:07
I was thinking of a uwp hambuger where it overlays the window until it looses focus
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 23:08
hmm, in UWP mail for example, the content moves over
image.png
and if you just want to overlay the content, use e.g. a Panel with the main content set to horizontal/vertical align Stretch and the menu over the top set to horizontal align e.g. Left
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 23:12
ok yeah, i'm 99% sure <SplitView> doesn't use a popup - it's just a layout control
Eric Dunaway
@EricDunaway
Oct 24 2017 23:13
How would you implement it over the content? Zindex?
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 23:14
you don't even need ZIndex - if you put 2 controls on a Panel they'll overlay
the later ones will be drawn after the earlier ones
Eric Dunaway
@EricDunaway
Oct 24 2017 23:15
Ahh
Nikita Tsukanov
@kekekeks
Oct 24 2017 23:16
There are different styles for that menu
For different screens
Xamarin's MasterDetailPage, for example, uses overlays for phones and split view for tablets in landscape mode
And that's configurable
Steven Kirk
@grokys
Oct 24 2017 23:17
  <Panel>
    <Border Background="Yellow">
      <TextBlock>Content that has overlay over it</TextBlock>
    </Border>
    <Border Background="Red" HorizontalAlignment="Left">
      <TextBlock>Overlay</TextBlock>
    </Border>
  </Panel>
yeah, to do the control properly it would probably do its own layout
our layout system is (mostly) the same as WPF's
anyway, need to call it a night now, later!