These are chat archives for BSData/warhammer-age-of-sigmar

31st
Jan 2018
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:16 UTC
@Kohato Nagash is dead to me now ....
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:30 UTC
@Mad-Spy So yeah ... Warscroll battalions are a PIA to manage. Because of overlapping minimums requirements between the force type (Vanguard etc) and the Warscroll Requirements.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:42 UTC
thought:
you're doing roster requirements as categories right?
why not treat battalions like units? using the SSEs for the actual units as options
example here would be the "Wildstalker Brayherd"
just link the SSEs for its contents like a unit
it should still validate on categories
and they might not go into the usual slots, but that's probably easier for listbuilding, since you end up knowing exactly what stuff is in which battalion (since afaik they can't count for more than one)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:47 UTC
@Mad-Spy
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:48 UTC
THe only bad part is the max/min tracking piece for validation.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:48 UTC
(I'm not super well versed with AoS, I haven't played a single game of it in half a year)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:48 UTC
It’s alright. :smile:
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:49 UTC
are you meaning like only a certain number of units? or certain number of dudes in the unit
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:49 UTC
Max of x number of units.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:49 UTC
just set a constraint. the battalion only cares about contents
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:49 UTC
At any given point level for specific types.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:50 UTC
which book is the wildstalker brayherd in
I'll do it up as an example of what I'm talking about
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:50 UTC
However, there are battalions which cannot be created in specific point levels
“Gorechosen” is an example (8 Heroes/Leaders)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:51 UTC
if you mean battleline and stuff, those should still validate against categories
because each SSE still has its intrinsic category labels
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:52 UTC
That issue was killing me previously
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:52 UTC
so even if they're under the battalion header BS will still pick up "oh I have x leaders, can't have that"
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:52 UTC
Likely based on how they were configured
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:52 UTC
that's why I'm looking for the wildstalker to implement and give an impelementation example
oh
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:52 UTC
Hmmmmmm
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:52 UTC
I see the issue
you labeled the root links
not the SSE
for that kind of validation the SSE has to be flagged
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:54 UTC
Again there was much stabbing with forks into ones eyes involved with this project.
I’m feeling rather like I haven’t had enough coffee. SSE?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:55 UTC
Shared Selection Entry
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:55 UTC
Ah on the same page now
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:56 UTC
basically: instead of putting categories on just the root, put it on the root and the SSE
then you can link to the SSE inside the battallion, and it will still validate categories
now which fucking book has the wildstalker so I can look up the constraints :P
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:56 UTC
That used to cause issues with overlap on display problems. And didn’t work nicely prior to where categories were fixed
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:57 UTC
ah, its in one of the profiles
give me a sec to knock this together and see how it works
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:58 UTC
Probably in raw GA chaos?
Wildstalker Brayherd: A Beastlord takes 1-3 Great Bray-Shamans, 2 to 6 units of Bestigors and/or Tuskgor Chariots, 3-9 units of Gors and 4-12 units of Ungor and/or Ungor Raiders.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 01:06 UTC
So: (p. 195 Grand Alliance Chaos)
1 Beast Lord
2 to 6 units of Bestigors and/or Tuskgor Chariots,
3-9 units of Gors
4-12 units of Ungor and/or Ungor Raiders
sadly the battalions look weird on output, mashing together every SSE profile
but they're separated well enough
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 01:07 UTC
How does the output look?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 01:08 UTC
not spectacular, but since it's just a reference not completely terrible
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 01:08 UTC
Why is Battalion listed twice in the categories?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 01:08 UTC
I didn't touch that bit, ask @Mad-Spy
I only did the SSE categories and constraints
but it definitely cross-category validates
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 01:09 UTC
Not a fan of the “unit(wizard)”
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 01:09 UTC
not my doing
:P
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 01:09 UTC
Wizard is actually “technically” a category.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 01:09 UTC
but at least it works
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 01:09 UTC
True
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 01:10 UTC
you can see how I did the OR options
like bestigors/tuskgors as just an entry group
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 01:12 UTC
So, categories in both the Root location, and the Shared Selection Entry.
It looks much more doable.
@Mad-Spy What do you think of the proposal by @WindstormSCR ?
@WindstormSCR I like it :+1:
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 01:26 UTC
just make sure the battalion constraints have the "shared" box unchecked, or it'll cause wierdness with battalion+loose units
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 06:24 UTC
I'd tried this but the missing piece was Categories on the SSEs! I don't love the output, but it's usable.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 06:25 UTC
with AoS rules being free there is zero excuse for them to not have the proper ref anyway
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 06:28 UTC
The Battletomes with the Battalions in aren't free.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 06:29 UTC
I meant the units that get scrambled
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 06:40 UTC
Oh right. True.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 06:41 UTC
so two things about categories in SSEs
1) don't make them 'primary'
2) make sure the battalion constraints on SSEs are not shared
and it all works
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 06:42 UTC
We have primary categories in 40k and it works ok?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 06:43 UTC
I was getting odd double-count issues when I did primary in the aos sses
but as long as they have the right ones and none marked primary it works fine
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 06:43 UTC
Ok. I'll have a look later.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 10:35 UTC
@WindstormSCR, your solution works. There just a small niggle in that units which switch battlefield role will show both categories.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 14:19 UTC
option 2 is just use the categories that will show in battalions, since root cats should override
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 15:16 UTC
@Mad-Spy what stuff does the switch? (Drawing a blank)
Double counting battalions is also bad as the number of battalions determines the numbers of artifacts available
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 15:21 UTC
There are duplicate RSEs with different primary categories. Not sure what you mean about double counting?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 15:39 UTC
In the picture for the layout you can see “categories: Battalion, battalion”
If, at some point, we’re going to do validation for number of artefacts, double counting is not the hotness
Ie counting the battalions twice
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 15:51 UTC
I don't see the duplication in my version of the implementation, so it may just be something that @WindstormSCR did when he was building his version
or are you just talking about the naming convention? All the battalions in Chaos are prefixed "Battalion:" in their name.
we can remove that easily
I see now in the image. I don't get that in my version, so I think we'll be fine.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 15:58 UTC
image.png
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 16:06 UTC
I love that that battalion can be 920 -8890 points.
At the top you can see categories: Battalion, Battalion
That being said, I’m not as big a fan of “Unit(Wizard)”
Are we going to do “Unit(Priest)”?
And “Ability(Command)”
Abilities (Battalion)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 16:30 UTC
I agree on Wizard. It should be a separate item like psyker in 40k. I quite like abilities being separated.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 16:43 UTC
The issue I have is that they’re “Battle Traits” and “Command Traits”
Battalion Abilities being flagged that these are Abilities from the Battalion isn’t a bad idea. I’m just more of a fan of calling them what they are.
And from an aggregate perspective, an ability is an ability.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 16:51 UTC
Though there are both command traits and command abilities. And they’re explicitly separated. Hmmmmm
I’ll defer to your judgment on the Abilities
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 16:54 UTC
Comand Traits
Command Traits come from Allegiance though right?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 16:55 UTC
Which are different
While “Command/Unit/Battalion” Abilities are still Abilities (as are spells and prayers)
Defining their source could be helpful in understanding where something comes from and what gets access
I think that’s a good call.
Still more in line with making Wizards/Priests/Totems like psykers in 40k
The objective is to make the tool help players, and easy to understand what the opponent has when you read their list. Separating out the Ability sources will facilitate that. And due to constraints on how the data is presented probably will help clarification
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 17:01 UTC
Still would like us to seriously consider clearing the Unit(Wizard) unit type and get them potentially flagged as a Category, or managed the same way we have it done in 40K for psykers
I’d be behind that kind of move 100%
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 17:06 UTC
We should be able to remove all the characteristic except cast/unbind and powers and not lose current data. Then we'll just need to add unit stats for any wizards.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 17:07 UTC
Cast/Unbind is actually a function that isn’t wizard specific. Priests have it as do other units.
For wizards it’s under the “Magic” label.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 17:14 UTC
Though, for Priests the unbind appears to be associated with an Ability. Rather than being “native” to being a priest or totem
Given that wizard (and the two default spells they get) and general are universal, thoughts on putting them in the gst?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 17:18 UTC
Maybe we just convert all of them to just a normal ability?
For Wizards it's called 'magic' otherwise it has its ability make?
Name*
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 17:24 UTC
Example:
“MAGIC
A unit of Pink Horrors can attempt to cast one spell ineach of your own hero phases, and attempt to unbind one spell in each enemy hero phase. Pink Horrors know the Arcane Bolt and Mystic Shield spells.”
They have actual “Spells” but those are Unit Abilities
Actually .. it’s not an Ability it’s a separate item under “Magic”

“MAGIC
A Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch is a wizard. He canattempt to cast two different spells in each of your hero phases, and attempt to unbind two spells in each enemy hero phase. A Gaunt Summoner knows the Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield and Infernal Flames spells.

INFERNAL FLAMES
The Gaunt Summoner conjures a rolling wave of scorching wyrdfire that engulfs enemy formations. Infernal Flames has a casting value of 8. If successfully cast, pick a visible enemy unit and roll 1 dice for each model in the target unit that is within 18" of the caster; the unit suffers 1 mortal wound for each roll of 4 or more. Roll 3 dice for each MONSTER or WAR MACHINE in the target unit...[...]”

OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 17:36 UTC
Priest prayers are explicitly Abilities, based on what I’ve seen.
“Bloodfuelled Prayers: In your hero phase, a Slaughterpriest can pray to Khorne for aid. Pick one of the prayers on the right, then roll a dice, adding 1 to the result if the Slaughterpriest slew any enemy models in the previous turn. If the result is 4 or higher,the prayer is answered, and its effect takes place. If the result is 1, the Slaughterpriest’s supplication is seen as unworthy of a follower of...”
It’s the same concept with the Lord Relictor. The prayer is an Ability.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 17:39 UTC
If you look at the Great Bray-shaman in Chaos, I've set up the spells as selection entries. I think the Magic entry should just be a unit ability.
Called "magic
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 17:51 UTC
Hmm. So “Ability(Unit): Magic”?
How does that correspond to implementation for Psykers in 40K?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 17:54 UTC
Psykers have a separate profile type, but they are more complicated in that they almost always have a choice of powers whereas in AoS they don't?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 17:55 UTC
Every wizard can choose 1 spell, and has others given to them by default
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 17:56 UTC
Maybe I've just not seen one with a choice.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 17:57 UTC
Along with two basic spells “Arcane Bolt” and “Mystic Shield”
For example: in the DoT book “Each ARCANITEWIZARDand MORTAL WIZARDin a TZEENTCHarmy knows an additional spell chosen from the Lore of the Fate.”
So, they get the spell or spells from their profile, the 2 default spells and one additional chosen spell
(Which may be rolled)
There is no spell like Smite that can be cast ad-infintitum... each spell in a Matched Play game can only be cast once per turn
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 18:07 UTC
Tbh, I don't like the 40k way much. We only present the spells a model can take so we're duplicating info in the Psyker profile
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 18:10 UTC
Ok. Basically the spells vary depending on whether the unit can meet requirements ie Mortal vs Daemon vs Arcanite (in the case of Tzeentch spells)
Some units (like the Gaunt Summoner) can Choose from all of the spells lists. As they have all of the keywords
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 18:11 UTC
Easy enough to do with SSEGs
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 18:15 UTC
Similar functionality for Priests in KHORNE armies: “Each PRIEST in a KHORNE army knows a blessing chosen from the Blood Blessings of Khorne in addition to any prayers they know.”
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 18:16 UTC
Yeah, we can do that with SSEGs.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 18:17 UTC
This matches the SCE priest rules as well.
Anyway. Thanks for poking at the skeletal infrastructure.