These are chat archives for BSData/warhammer-age-of-sigmar

13th
Feb 2018
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 02:59
Since @Cupropituvanso is working on order, I’ll snag the new Death stuff
@Mad-Spy
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 12:20
@Mad-Spy Placed it in your “chaos-updates” folder
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 13:06
Not sure what you mean? I don't see any commits to the branch?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 13:07
Hmm.
Submitted then commit last night...
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 13:07
Did you commit it locally and not upload it?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 13:07
That ... is possible
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 13:08
Done it myself loads of times :)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 13:10
Bleaurgh. It has been a while since I’ve done anything other than local work
Okay from the desktop Github app... remind me how the commit is handled?
Am I remembering correctly that it is a pull origin ...?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 13:16
And there we go.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 13:27
Under unit entries, you list that they shouldn’t be hidden, but Gors appears to ignore that hidden piece.
And then has a rather complicated unhide functionality
Do you have an example of the “don’t hide”?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 13:37
I changed my mind on how to do it and haven't got around to changing all the unit to the new model. Look at Bestigors for an example of how it should work.
The hide/unhide is always going to be complicated.
Especially when you have units that change role based on allegiance.
because you need 3 RSE entries.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 13:46
Yeah... I’ll agree with that
Oh, Adding “PRIEST” to the gst categories might not be bad, and setting up “General” as a gst shared unit profile (as all armies have a general)
Like fly currently is
Bought there may be a better way to do that
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 13:54
Or a gst based SSE? (For the General)
With a max1 constraint
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 13:58
General probably needs to work like Warlord in 40k. It's a category with max 1 in Roster. You then make a local (to the catalogue) SSE with that category which gets added to each eligible unit.
I have added Priest in my latest update.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 13:59
Ahh, missed that
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 13:59
I literally just did it, so I'm not surprised :)
You've misspelled Allegiance BTW. Items with a dash are ones you've redone?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 14:17
^^ Re:Priest.
The 40k solution for the General sounds like an excellent solution.
Yep
Werking on mi orruck spellingz ;) I fix it laterz
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 14:18
nw. Feel free to go through and check my spelling too :)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 14:20
For categories, are they linked at the SSE? Or at the RSE?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 14:20
SSE
For KEYWORDS
not for battlefield roles, which should be on RSE.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 14:21
Which then allows an “Allies” version
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 14:29
Yes, there will be two entries for everything, one normal one and one with the Allies category as well. Some units will also have an additional entry for their alternate battlefield role.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 14:39
That works. :+1:
So, the “Keywords” in the “Unit” Profile type
Should they be ignored? Or removed from the profile?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 14:45
I'm leaving them for now as any units which already have keywords will have them there. Once we're done updating everything, we can just remove that Characteristic from the Profile Type.
I'm leaving them blank if I didn't put them in already.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 14:55
Got it. KEYWORDS should then be handled as categories in the .cat and linked at the SSE. Where should the “BEHEMOTH” keyword be linked?
It’s a battlefield role... so RSE?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 15:03
yes
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 15:11
(Not to self: Stop inserting KEYWORDS into the unit profile ...)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 15:12
To be honest you could just go ahead and bin it now. We're going to have to break everything anyway.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 15:23
Sounds like a plan, you’ve got one vote from me. (While we’re at it, clearing out the “Leader/Behemoth” category wouldn’t be horribly bad either)
Though ... we might want to validate that nothing is using it ... not sure how badly that kills stuff in the catalog.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 15:25
Clearing leader/behemoth is more problematic because of the "bug" in the data editor that means it won't focus on missing category links.
It would mean trawling through the data files manually to remove the links.
Or, we make sure it's off all of the relevant units and then delete it once that is done.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 15:35
Well... I’ll start with the Death Stuff.
How much support are we providing to the “Compendium Armies”
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 15:36
:shrug@
well, that didn't work
Mad-Spy @Mad-Spy shrugs
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 15:36
how much do you want to provide?
Maybe we make a separate "Compendium" catalogue?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 15:37
For example, GHB 2017 basically changed up keywords and names.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 15:37
GHB 2017 made it really confusing by using the words Faction and Allegiance interchangeably on the Pitched Battle Faction page.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 15:40
Yeaaaahhhh.....
Maggotkin of Nurgle.... the allies at the bottom explicitly says “Nurgle Allies:”
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 15:46
Which throws the Chaos Allies list into havoc.
If Allies lists are actually based on Allegiances... or Keywords
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 15:53
they're based on neither, imo. They're based on the Pitched Battle Faction table
To take a "Maggotkin of Nurgle" PBF army, you can only include units in the table and(/or, in theory) units from PBFs listed at the bottom of the table.
The Ally names in the table are PBFs not KEYWORDS.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 15:58
Here’s the Maggotkin reference: “Nurgle Allies: Khorne, Brayherds, Chaos Gargants, Everchosen, Monsters of Chaos, Slaanesh, Slaves to Darkness (excluding units with mark of TZEENTCH), Warherds”
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 15:59
I know, I looked at it ;)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 16:00
Which is a ‘mix’ of PBF and keywords
Sort of ... because Khorne and Slaanesh aren’t in all caps
And what really killed Allies for me.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 16:03
Yeah, that's GW being stupid. They should all be PBFs, which they are in GHB
Their convention has previously been that KEYWORDS are always in all caps. If it's not all caps, it's not a keyword.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 16:04
This is part and parcel of their issues with Allegiance vs PBF in general in GHB 2017
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 16:10
we should get an FAQ soon, so hopefully they'll sort it.
I imagine it should be Blades of Khorne and Hosts of Slaanesh
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 16:15
I think they’re moving it to be based off the Allegiance.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 16:15
But that can't work because you can have a Slaves to Darkness army with NURGLE Allegiance.
Or Chaos Allegiance, or Slaves to Darkness Allegiance.
Is the Blades of Khorne battletome newer than GHB2017 or older?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 16:19

Since the release of the General’s Handbook 2017, we’ve been listening to your feedback, and we’ve received a number of questions on how Chaos allegiance abilities work. We’d like to clarify that all references to ‘Blades of Khorne’, ‘Disciples of Tzeentch’, ‘Hosts of Slaanesh’ and ‘Nurgle Rotbringers’, are synonymous with ‘Khorne’, ‘Tzeentch’, ‘Slaanesh’ and ‘Nurgle’ respectively. For example, a Blades of Khorne army can also, and interchangeably, be referred to as a Khorne army.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/15/chaos-warscroll-updatesgw-homepage-post-4/

Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 16:19
ok, so then Slaanesh refers to Hosts of Slaanesh.
but "Blades of Khorne" from GHB2017 overwrites the separate "Daemons of Khorne" and "Khorne Bloodbound" PBFs from the Khorne book.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 16:20
The implication is that they’re interchangeable.... or that Hosts of Slaanesh is a subset of Slaanesh
I believe that BoK came out before GHB 2017
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 16:21
well, it's a subset of the possible units that can have the SLAANESH allegiance
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 16:21
BoK was released in April
GHB 2017 was released in August
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 16:22
but given that Hosts of Slaanesh could ally with the factions they mention in that post, it makes no real difference anyway.
If anything, they've made it more confusing by allowing the substitution.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 16:23
Here’s the fun part.. that is explicitly calling out Allegiance Abilities. And hasn’t ever hit an actual FAQ
And is a pain to find.
The rest of the post is here “For instance, a “Hosts of Slaanesh” army with Hosts of Slaanesh allegiance abilities could include Mortal units with the Slaanesh keyword from Slaves to Darkness, and a Khorne army could mix units from the Khorne Bloodbound list with the Daemons of Khorne list and the Slaves to Darkness. Similarly, a Nurgle army could combine Nurgle Rotbringers, Daemons of Nurgle and even Clans Pestilens units under the Nurgle allegiance abilities.”
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 16:25
Yeah, except there's no such thing as "Hosts of Slaanesh" allegiance abilities, there are only Slaanesh ones.
in GHB
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 16:25
That is why I believe that the direction they’re leaning is away from PBF and towards either Allegiance or Keyword
Still frustrating
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 16:26
However, you can't have a NURGLE Allegiance PBF Maggotkin Army which includes Skaven, because they're not allies.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 16:26
Ahh... but it’s a “NURGLE Army”
So I can have Pestilins. As hey have the Nurgle keyword
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 16:27
No, because they're not on the Allies table.
you can do it in Open Play, but not matched play.
You CAN however do it the other way around, because Pestilens are allowed to ally with "Daemons of Nurgle" (which is now Maggotkin)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 16:29
That is where the annoyance comes in.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 16:30
I get that it's annoying and badly explained, but it does make sense in GW's crazy way.
It doesn't help that they used "allegiance" (no capital) when explaining how PBFs work.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 16:30
I can have a NURGLE Army. A Nurgle Army is any unit that can be Nurgle keyworded.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 16:31
No, it is not. An army may choose the NURGLE allegiance IF all of its units have the NURGLE keyword.
However, in Pitched Battle, a "Nurgle" army is one that is selected solely from the "Maggotkin of Nurgle" PBF list and its allies.
The same army could equally choose to be CHAOS allegiance.
because every unit in it would have the CHAOS keyword.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 16:33
I feel your frustration.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 16:34
I don't have any frustration. That is how the rules present themselves.
Allegiance is solely based on KEYWORD, not PBF.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 16:35
With you. So, the issue is “Nurgle Allies”
If it has the keyword “NURGLE” these are the allies.
I believe that is their logic
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 16:36
They are not saying that, they are saying that "Maggotkin of Nurgle" (a PBF) is the same thing as "Nurgle" (also a PBF). Keywords are ALWAYS UPPERCASE.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 13 2018 16:39
“– then your army has the KHORNE allegiance. An army with the KHORNE allegiance – sometimes known as a KHORNE army – can use the potent allegiance abilities found on the following pages.” P.78 BoK battletome
That being said, I wish they would just faq stuff properly and give us a proper reference
And you’re right, it isn’t upper case keyword. :angry:
We’re likely to see pushback btw.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 13 2018 16:53
Well until GW sort it out, we can only go on the books and the books say that Allegiance is based on keyword.
PBF allies override that keyword restriction.
So you can ya
So you can take "Khorne" units in a "Nurgle" PBF army and still qualify for NURGLE Allegiance.