These are chat archives for BSData/warhammer-age-of-sigmar

23rd
Feb 2018
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 15:09
Can Allied Heroes take Allegiance artefacts? i don't see anything which says they can't, just that they can't be the General (so no Command Traits) and they don't get affected by Battle Traits (unless the keywords happen to match)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 15:14
Indications is that could only take Artefacts that their keywords would allow. IE SCE could take Order and SCE Artefacts ... but not Sylvaneth Artefacts.
However, I haven’t seen specific documentation on that issue. :(
(This being entirely based on what has been implemented for then”official website” tool.) I haven’t subscribed to the Azyr App...
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 15:16
Found it. p116 in the first paragraph of the "allegiance abilities" box says you can only use allegiance abilities on stuff with the right keyword.
and "Allegiance abilities" include artefacts
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 15:18
So, SCE ga:Order Leader Allies could take Order Artefacts. But not SCE Artefacts (because you only get Artefacts from your Allegiance...)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 15:20
except on warscroll builder you can...
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 15:20
Wait : ““. Only units in the army with the appropriate allegiance keyword can benefitfrom these Abilities”
P.116
So ... if they don’t have the appropriate Allegiance keyword, then no?
Technically they do have Order as a keyword.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 15:22
yes, but the army allegiance might not be Order
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 15:23
You can always choose the GA Allegiance items ... even if you are choosing a more specific allegiance
Because, even though they’re more specific... they still qualify for the GA
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 15:25
so you have two allegiances then?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 15:26
Only “kind of” ...
You have one, but you can choose from anything you qualify for. (Ie Parent and Ancestor)
Lemme see if I can track down the reference.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 15:27
well, that makes life a massive pain in the arse.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 15:30
P. 77 last paragraph “You can choose to take either the allegiance abilities for the allegiance your army belongs to, or the allegiance abilities forthe Grand Alliance your army belongs to. For example, an army with the STORMCAST ETERNALS allegiance could either use the Stormcast Eternals allegiance abilities or the Order allegiance abilities”
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 15:31
and the key word there is OR.
which would imply that you don't get both
i.e. you can't take ORDER artefacts if you choose STORMCAST ETERNALS allegiance
but given that you can do it in Warscroll Builder, maybe my interpretation is wrong. Either that or Warscroll Builder is just bad...
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 15:34
You can’t have both, you can take one Or the other.
So, I only get one Battle Trait and one Command Trait, but I can choose either/or?
Likely that the builder is bad.
I can also choose Artefacts that aren’t valid for Allies (Ie from their Allegiance, not that of the main force)
So, Allies may be able to take from the GA? But not from the Allegiance they don’t qualify for.
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Feb 23 2018 15:38
As a philosophical note, I think is wise if let the BS data allow for some of these ambiguous rules/selections. It is better to under prescribe the rules than to over prescribe. Let the gamers at the tables decide on how to interpret the ambiguous/conflicting parts.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 15:38
Try adding a Verminlord Corruptor as an Ally. It gives artefact options from ORDER, PESTILENS and NURGLE DAEMONS!!
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 15:38
Well... order shouldn’t be an option ...
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 15:38
I mean CHAOS
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 15:39
Technically the unit qualifies for all of them
But the builder doesn’t filter well.
(Or really at all)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 15:47
I suppose the question that I have is ‘is the “or” for the entire data structure of Allegiance Abilities (wholesale) or are each of the Allegiance abilities handled separately.’
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Feb 23 2018 15:49
I interpret the 'or' to mean the select from the entire set of combined Order and Stormcast abilities.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 15:51
ok, I chucked a pound at GW to get access to AZyr.
In Azyr (as far as i can tell), if an allegiance does not have any specific abilities, it can always use it's grand Alliance ones.
but if they have specific, they can only use specific. Basically, Warscroll Builder is terrible.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 15:58
Okay ... so ... if I were to choose SCE as my allegiance, it’s only SCE Allegiance Abilities. Which means that Allied non-SCE leaders can take nothing?
Unless Azyr is broken
Wheee!
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Feb 23 2018 16:01
The books + FAQs (ambiguous as they may be) are the definitive source of the rules. Azyr, Warscroll Builder and BS are all unofficial.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 16:01
Yes, allied leaders get nothing.
I'm pretty sure Azyr is official given it's supplied by GW.
in addition, you may choose a specific allegiance and then choose to use the Grand Alliance abilities instead of the specific ones.
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Feb 23 2018 16:03
Azyr is by GW, but I do not think it is necessarily the final arbiter of rule interpretation. That is what the books are for and what local groups argue about before games.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 16:04
@Mad-Spy that’s kind of how I interpreted it.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 16:05
yes, but it's nice to have it kind of confirmed.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 16:05
@rweyrauch “Pardon me, I have to reply to this ... someone on the Internet is wrong ...”
;)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 16:05
I'll need to change the validation of everything now :(
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 16:07
So, the child can pick either parent or ancestor?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 16:09
yes, you can choose
but it is either or, you can't take artefacts from both.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 16:10
And if they’re allies ... nothing at all.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 16:11
yup
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 16:13
So .... validation for Allies and Allegiance Abilities?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 16:14
the Artefacts just need hiding if Ancestor Is Instance of Allies.
My local General entries are already hidden in this instance.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 16:14
And ... we’re moving forward again.
:+1:
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 16:17
making everything switchable, I'll need to think about.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 16:18
Basically it’s like unit visibility for PBFs.
At least that’s what I mentally envision.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 16:21
I'll have a play tonight.
Interestingly, Azyr has no concept of a PBF separate to an Allegiance, but does include Allegiances like "KHORNE BLOODBOUND" which is basically just a restricted list of the Khorne PBF?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 16:30
How does it handle the new Nurgle Maggotkin? And their allies?
Interesting about the Faction piece...
So, that would match from the old “Blades of Khorne” battletome
“Battleline if army has KHORNE BLOODBOUND allegiance and its general is a Lord ofKhorne On Juggernaut” (for Mighty Skullcrushers)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 16:36
Basically it matches two keywords ... not just one.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 16:36
All of the "old" allegiances/pbfs are still there... Daemons of NURGLE, NURGLE rotbringers, NURGLE and maggotkin of NURGLE.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 16:36
And their Allies?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 23 2018 16:44
All Nurgle allies.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2018 17:04
So, basically anything labeled “KHORNE” is included? (Ie the battletome reference is actually a Keyword, not the lowercase version as indicated?)