These are chat archives for BSData/warhammer-age-of-sigmar

28th
Feb 2018
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 01:24
Okay ... Between GA:Death and Legions of Nagash units are picking up additional keywords that match PBF/Allegiance.
For example: Neferata and Manfred both picked up “Soulblight” which just so happens to have a section listed for “Soulblight Allies” in the new Legions Book...
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 01:29
In Maggotkin, they listed “Nurgle Allies” this specifically being a keyword. (And also an Allegiance.)
Soulblight also matches that ... so perhaps what we’re seeing is that the new “Allies” reference is the Allegiance, and the Allies listed are actually based on the items on the Allies list actually being Keywords ... even though they’re not in keyword bold?
That concept would completely match the references for the new Allegiances in Death.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 01:48
If that’s the case, should they be added to the PBF for Soulblight?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 02:56
Interesting method to handle Battalions from a user in the Battlescribe Reddit https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mpzwdkIMQir1O2X-Ovev75vZ5QLPeJG3/view
A 'blank' template item that lists the requirements ... and then you appear to have to select the actual units from the main list.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 09:07
that's actually a pretty clever way of doing it... I looked at something similar, but incremented the actual SSE rather than having it work off of a copy. Unfortunately, it doesn't help us with the battlefield role change issue.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 12:55
Does the Azyr app calculate battalion requirements?
(I know the online version doesn’t)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 12:59
No
It doesn't even tell you what should be in it
it doesn't really do any validation further than the role limits and having to have a general.
I can give units more options than there are models in the unit, for example.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 13:04
Like having 49 Skeleton Champions in a unit of 40 Skeletons.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 14:49
Wait ... what?
Okay. facepalm Alright ...
So, Death, Allies and PItched Battle Profile lists ...
In LoN they have several allies selections...
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 14:56
And modified the warscrolls to include the KEYWORD for an Allegiance. This is identical to how they did “Monsters of Chaos”
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 15:16
Annoyingly enough, Daemon Princes are both on the Slaves to Darkness pbp list ... but don’t have the keyword.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 19:34
I’m updating the main readme.md file to indicate that the team is actively working on the data files. Any objections?
Unless we just want to drop it all as a huge surprise?
I’m okay with that too :ghost:
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Feb 28 2018 19:39
I think updating the readme is a very good idea.
Regarding bug #159. Is this something we even want to consider?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 19:45
at some point, we probably should put the compendium units in the files, @OftKilted has already put Tomb Kings in Death, I think.
it's a similar situation to Index-only units in 40k
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 19:47
I’m not for supporting the “original” Compendium units in the current files
TK and Vampire Counts (which only had 2 or 3 units) are both in death.
So UPDATE: Feb 28, 2018: The catalogs are in process of being updated by the team to reflect the releases covered since the release of the General’s Handbook 2017 Edition
Reasonable?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 19:51
Sounds good
tekton
@tekton
Feb 28 2018 19:51
+1
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 19:51
Do we want the “overhauled due to backend changes paragraph left in”?
Or at least the first sentence of that paragraph left in. The rest is okay
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 19:52
Leave the contact details. @OftKilted, you should be able to commit directly to master
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 20:00
(better wording?) UPDATE: FEB 28, 2018: THE CATALOGS ARE IN THE PROCESS OF BEING UPDATED BY THE TEAM TO REFLECT THE FORCES COVERED IN GENERALS HANDBOOK 2017 EDITION AND LATER RELEASES.
THIS WILL TAKE TIME. IF YOU WISH TO HELP, PLEASE SUBMIT A JOIN REQUEST UNDER ISSUES. YOU CAN ALSO CONTACT US ON THE GITTER CHAT BY CLICKING THE LINK ABOVE.**
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 20:01
looks good to me
tekton
@tekton
Feb 28 2018 20:05
so the destruction cat already had some "validation" for battalions by making them a parent and adding things under it- was there more talk than the above note about battalions that i'd missed?
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Feb 28 2018 20:05
Can change to lower case. There's no need to shout at our users.
tekton
@tekton
Feb 28 2018 20:06
SOME OF THEM ARE HARD OF SEEING
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Feb 28 2018 20:06
WHAT?
tekton
@tekton
Feb 28 2018 20:06
:clap:
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 20:06
I'M SORRY I CAN'T HEAR YOU BECAUSE I"M SCREAMING
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 20:08
@tekton, we haven't been able to get it to work without it duplicating Categories when you select the units normally.
because you can't add RSEs (which is where the Primaries live) to an SSE.
tekton
@tekton
Feb 28 2018 20:08
makes sense
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 20:09
and that's the only way I can find to manage battlefield role switches without the ability to manipulate categories.
tekton
@tekton
Feb 28 2018 20:10
that's sounding familiar now, ok
with ghb17 destruction got a lot more of that, too :(
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 20:11
the link that @OftKilted put up earlier is a novel way to implement the required units problem (and a pretty good one), but it doesn't help us with the role issue.
tekton
@tekton
Feb 28 2018 20:12
agreed
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 20:20
What was interesting about the proposed solution was that it identified what was needed, but then flagged it as a requirement. Perhaps putting in the 'requirements flagging' on adding the battalion? i.e. it's not actually being put into the battalion, the battalion is just adding a 'minimum unit requirement of X unit'?
@tekton Yeah, one of the prior editors had done work on battalions in the Destruction cat.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 20:24
You can add the minX in Roster/Force to the SSEs but I just think it's going to get really messy where units can be in multiple battalions.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 20:24
If we put the minimum requirements on the RSE for battalions ...
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 20:24
maybe?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 20:25
It would have to be an 'increment by x' type.
So that if I have multiple battalions the unit requirements aren't a 'set' but an 'add'
Just thinking.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 20:27
yes, you're right.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 20:29
Who knows, maybe this is a 'Winner-Winner-Chicken-Dinner' moment? ;)
tekton
@tekton
Feb 28 2018 20:33
i was reading the suggestion as increments- since some in death and destruction are 1-4 units of things
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 20:34
the major difficulty is with the ones where you can select from a list
i.e. 1-3 units from (Unit A, Unit B, Unit C)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 20:35
Can that be done as an 'OR' constraint?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 20:35
maybe?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 20:36
In any case, just something to put into our collective 'Cap' as a potential method for handling Battalions. I know that I'm not there yet.
Perhaps a 'minimum in parent' kind of thing? or setup an SSEG for the group?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 20:40
min in Force with increments based on battalion selection works in principle
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 20:41
:+1:
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 20:44
image.png
This works
tekton
@tekton
Feb 28 2018 20:45
heh, i was just playing with that too for beastclaw
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 20:45
But I need to look at whether the group entries can be done in any kind of sensible way
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 20:52
this might just work. it's not going to look even remotely pretty, but it might work...
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 20:54
"The customer doesn't need to see how the sausage is made ... it just has to taste good in the end."
Though ... I wonder if there is a way to do this linked to the battalion rse, not the unit.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 20:55
you can't add RSEs to RSEs...
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 20:56
yeah....
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 20:59
image.png
it's ugly as sin, but it works.
and that's just for a pair of units in a selection group.
and a single battalion.
I don't even want to think about how damn complicated that's going to get when you have 6 battalions which a unit can fit in
and different groupings for them
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 21:01
Ya know ... I believe that our users can do self validation.
If you can't count properly ... this is not the game for you.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 21:03
yeah, I'm definitely leaning towards giving them the list of units that need to be in the battalion and letting them make it up.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 21:03
Unless we want to do 'battalion' nesting requirements.
I.E. Super Battalion requires Battalion A, B, C and D
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 28 2018 21:03
??
Take a look at what I've done in Chaos. All the super-battalions list what can/must be in them, like the Goretide
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 21:06
Bloodbound Warhorde? i.e. minimum of 5-7 warscroll battalions type of stuff?
Sounds positive, I'll check it out.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 22:24
Followup on #159
If they want to make a 'Legacy Bretonnia Compendium' I'm not going to stop them. But I'm not for putting compendium data that is outdated into the current production catalogs
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 22:26
@OftKilted i think best thing to do is put stuff in ghb17 in first, then worry about old
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 22:27
That's my theory.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 22:27
but theyre right, we should support everything
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 22:27
But If they want to make a 'Legacy Bretonnia Compendium'
Then I'll be delighted to support them
But I'd say we want to do it as a separate cat
@alphalas Should we actually be supporting data files that have been superseded?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 22:33
If a warscroll has been updated we support the most updated version
So skeleton warriors for TK don’t get tomb shields, etc
Because thankfully GW didn’t pull a “if it’s in the Index, it’s always legal” for AoS yet
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 22:34
Yeah, the implication that I read in the request was that they wanted support for the original Compendium Release. Not the newly updated version.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 22:35
Well aren’t there units that weren’t updated at all?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 22:35
Everything was updated with new keywords
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 22:36
/me scurries off to GW site to download compendiums again
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 22:36
The keyword replacement breaks 'compatibility' with any of the old Alliances (except for the Grand Alliance)
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Feb 28 2018 22:37
The Order catalogue is large and complex enough. Adding all of 'back ported' can done after we have got the GHB17 stuff covered. Should done just in time for the GHB18. :)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 22:38
Vampire Counts was barebone'd and synergy was broken. For example the interaction for Necromancer on Nightmare with the rest of the new Legions of Nagash was quashed.
Completely with you @rweyrauch
It eventually will get there ... If we decide to work with the 'legacy' items then they would be one of those 'hide if not instance of OPEN PLAY' kinds of things.
And/or they have completely no points listed.
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Feb 28 2018 22:40
I looked at old compendiums this morning. A lot old units have essentially be been given equivalent units from GHB17.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 22:41
If you look into the back section it lists 'what you use instead' and they've been pretty much redone really well.
You can kindof see them as 'If it isn't an in-production model we don't have it' thing.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 22:42
I don’t even see the compendium downloads on GW/WHC
Scroll down past the regular rules download.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 22:49
Interesting
They gave TK skellies their tomb shields back
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 22:51
But they're not summonable.
And Settra is no longer a named character.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 22:52
Correct
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 22:52
But, he only would fit into a 'Death' army.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 22:52
Now here’s a question
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 22:52
Ok.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 22:53
The compendium keeps referencing DESERT LEGIONS, but nothing has that keyword listed
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 22:53
(if it's any consolation, it was a seriously close battle with the TK and a tournament class death list by one of the guys at
local store.
Incorrect.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 22:53
Ah the skellies have it
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 22:53
Most of the 'non-hero' units that are in groups have it.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 22:53
Ok
I missed that lol
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 22:54
the current death.cat in the chaos-updates branch have them implemented pretty well IMO
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 22:54
TK were always strong in old WFB
Especially with their scrolls of magic nonsense
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 22:55
not quite as much casting/magic currently.
Still darn solid.
they just have the challenge that they can't be taken as allies, and can take no allies.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 22:56
Tbh I thought the way they did summoning for death was kinda dumb
Oh I like that skellie archers become battle line if khalida is your General
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 23:03
So another dumb question
The lizardmen characters
In the AoS app they pull up as seraphon
But I don’t see a seraphon keyword on any of them.
Which is correct? Lol
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 23:08
They don’t have the keyword anymore
You may need to delete the cached version of your Warscroll
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 23:09
No I mean when I select seraphon faction lol
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 23:09
The AoS app? Not Azyr?
So, there is both Seraphon and Lizardmen
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 23:11
They pull up as seraphon in both app and azyr
IMG_0436.png
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 23:12
So... there is a Lizardmen section
Which units are you asking about?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 23:12
There is yes
But if I select Seraphon they still show up lol
Skink priest, chief, and prophet
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 23:13
We already know the app and Azyr have issues. :f
:(
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 23:14
They appear in both the seraphon and lizardmen section
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 23:15
If they don’t have a Pitched Battle Profile they can’t be used in a Matched Play List ...
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 23:16
Screen Shot 2018-02-28 at 6.15.57 PM.png
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 23:17
So, the three skins in Lizardmen are “Skink” not seraphon
Is that the 2016 Edition? I don’t see them in the GHB 2017
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 23:20
That’s off their compendium download
So the warscroll builder actually is actually the way we assume it should be, oddly enough
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 23:22
Or is that from the redone Lizardmen Compendium?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 28 2018 23:22
God damnit gw lol
It’s off the updated lizardmen compendium
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 23:23
Okay, so the Compendium was released at the same time as the GHB 2017
And replaced the old version
Basically they no longer mesh with the normal seraphon as they only have the Skink keyword
And the celestial swarm only has order and Daemon and celestial
So, we could put them in a PBF for Lizardmen... but they have no allies listed and probably aren’t in the GHB as Allies to anyone
And those units aren’t in the Seraphon list.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 28 2018 23:30
The problem that we’ve seen is that the newest two battletomes handle Allies in the direction I think they’re moving
In the Legions of Nagash