Hi
Hi
Hi
@Cupropituvanso, do you still need books?
i would like to help with the Data for Age of Sigmar ... i played with the Data Editor but i dont really understand the structure of some Inputs i can make... like in Categories the Primary? Option etc. I have managed to add some Units but as i said ... some of the Inputs i don´t know what they do.
is there a tutorial which explains all the Inputs etc.? Sorry for my bad english ... in german i could explain it better what i mean ;) ... before i Forget .. i have Access to all the Books (Battletomes, Grand Alliances etc.)
@exoddus79_twitter, we're currently working to get data into the existing files. I'm working on Chaos, @rweyrauch and @Cupropituvanso are doing Order, @tekton is doing Destruction and @OftKilted is working on Death.
Did you have a specific faction you want to work on?
The data editor can be a bit daunting to start with, but it soon gets familiar! I've written up some implementation guidelines here: https://github.com/BSData/warhammer-age-of-sigmar/wiki/Implementation-Guidelines to specify how stuff should be added to the files.
@Cupropituvanso is also German, so you can chat together if it's easier to get across in your native language.
@Mad-Spy do you Need help ?
Help is always welcome :)
You'll need to sign up to Github so I can add you as a collaborator.
Im really new to this ... i signed up an now?
ok, I invited you.
Did you install Github Desktop?
No
ok, get that installed and connect up to the repository.
https://github.com/BSData/bsdata/wiki/Developer-Guide has some details on how to do this.
Then download the AoS 2.0 branch, create a new branch based on it, and you can start work!
i will try later ... im at work right now ... :)
no worries. I won't be around much this weekend but the others should be able to help you out.
@Mad-Spy So, what’s your thoughts on the catalog split after having worked with it?
I think it's the way to go. It has around multi-faction list building, but no more so IMO than the 40k catalogues which people seem to be able to manage. The difficulties around what units go in which Allegiance is not necessarily hampered by splitting them.
It makes our job easier in as much as maintenance and set up are somewhat simpler.
Switching from the current implementation is not massively onerous.
Any thoughts on the split for chaos? Chaos deity related? Something else?
Main allegiance?
I’d think that main allegiance would probably be best. The only side question might be handling slaves to Darkness with their ability to be cross deity keyworded.
main allegiance
Slaves To Darkness are their own thing anyway.
True. But once keyworded they are main force not allies
For all of the chaos deities
Same kind of thing with the Soul Grinder and Daemon Prince
just need to add a second force, rather than a child.
They'll have the Allegiances in the cat, and that will restrict Mark choices
Sounds like a working solution.
So, setting the Allegiance such that if you add a second force it flags it?
If you select a non-matching Allegiance?
And splitting out the Compendium forces?
I can see that some of the SYLVANETH Warscroll battalions units might be challenging... 0-1 ORDER WIZARD
0-2 DUARDIN units ...
0-1 ORDER unit
Yes, list building is going to be a pain in those cases, unless you take my earlier suggestion of adding the relevant units in as hidden options unless you select that battalion?
until we get proper inheritance.
The Any order unit bit makes it pretty much impossible to include the unit in Sylvaneth. You’d be back at the Grand Alliance order man cat.
We’ll have to see whether it could be done for the hiding aspect cross FORCES
Technically the Any order unit might be easiest ... as that is Any order catalog...... hmm perhaps a if Allegiance Sylvaneth, hide if ancestors not instance of Duardin... and battalion X ... something like that ...
So, here’s a question. I have a TOMB KING army. To get Skeletal Archers as Battleline you have to have the Tomb Queen as the General and Allegiance Tomb Kings. There are no TK Battle Traits ... so the only option is Allegiance Death Battle Traits. Can you get skeletal archers as battleline and still take the Death Battle Traits?
yes
specifically because Allegiance can always choose to use Grand Alliance traits
and, in Azyr, has them as a default if they can't take Allegiance specific ones.
as per the Pestilens in Nurgle armies situation I mentioned the other day.
@Mad-Spy I need Books? :)
I have Wood Elves in German and English, the General Handbook and GH 2017 in English
I had not found the Unit informations about the Stormcast Eternals hidden informations, which are allready set in some of the wood elves units
That has every book you could ever want (in English only though, sorry)
ok ... 30GB is nothing I will download on my Phone ^^ Will check later
And cann you tell me where are the informations about these new „fraction“?
@Mad-Spy So, If you can always choose either ... Grand Alliance or Alliance do we need to hide the Allegiance Death traits?
Better said as Grand Allegiance Battle Traits etc
How it appears to work is as follows.
If the Allegiance has a choice, then it's either/or. I.e. You can use NURGLE or CHAOS allegiance abilities on qualifying units.
but if the unit doesn't qualify for the specific ones (Pestilens in NURGLE army, for example) then they fall back to the Grand Alliance traits/artefacts.
So, NURGLE army, GUO general chooses NURGLE DAEMON traits, but if I want to give a Plague Priest an Artefact it has to be a CHAOS one, because they don't qualify for any of the NURGLE ones.
If I want to give a Sloppity Bilepiper an artefact, he must take a NURGLE one
Ahh... so if one wanted to give one to a Verminlord Corruptor, it would have to be a NURGLE DAEMON one ... because the unit qualifies
yes
Rotbringers would qualify for NURGLE ones ... as would StD mortal forces Nurgle marked
Sylvaneth Allegiance Army, With Battalion That has SCE (non-ally)
SCE can only take Order if the Sylvaneth are using Sylvaneth Allegiance
If you made the Lord-Castellant the General, he could only take Order Battle/Allegiance Traits. Even if the army was using Sylvaneth Allegiance... but the Sylvaneth could take Sylvaneth Battle Traits etc.
Right?
Azyr would imply that they are still Allies.
just mandatory ones.
but given it doesn't really do any battalion validation, that is up for debate
Interesting. Doesn’t the Keyword in the Warscroll over-ride the Allies requirement?
f**k knows
LOL
What’s amusing is that by the end of all this we might have a quasi good idea of how this works ... and then GW will release GHB 2018
;)
"Ok guys, we've simplified everything by adding a new standard! It's only 3x as complicated as the old one!"
See also: https://xkcd.com/927/
In Azyr, I still have to add them as Allies, so I vote that's how we implement it.
Sounds good.
Take a look at p.117 for Warscroll Battalions if you’re up for it :scream:
Take a look at p.117 for Warscroll Battalions if you’re up for it :scream:
Adding as Allies makes it easier to implement.
Perhaps that main benefit is merely that one gets a 1-Drop formation?
I think so?
plus the battalion powers of course
And it means that moving to the separate catalogs is substantially less messy :+1:
For the separate forces with the same faction ... as long as we’re selecting the same Allegiance for both (and can select the same Allegiance), it shouldn’t be an issue.
That would answer the “Tzeentch Army” or “Nurgle Army” issue in an easier fashion.
But would roll the leader/battleline etc. checking To roster rather than force level.
ok, I was wrong. I somehow completely missed that the Lord-Castellant had been added to the list of valid Leaders after I added the battalion.
So... not an Ally ...
No
And if he’s the General with Sylvaneth Allegiance, He cans take order Battle Traits? ... and the Sylvaneth can take Sylvaneth Artefacts?
According to Azyr, he can be the general but gets NO battle trait
I guess because he can't be Sylvaneth at all, rather than qualifying for Allegiance but not specific traits?
Can he take any Artefacts?
Or (likely) the same situation.
@OftKilted do you mean as ally?
no.
It gets weirder though. EVERCHOSEN Fatesworn warband doesn't work the same in Azyr. I get no additional unit choices based on the battalion selection!!!
I strongly suspect that the Guardians are working correctly and the Fatesworn are broken
... #!$&@$ GW ....
If you play the lord castellant with sylvaneth they cannot take sylvaneth atefacts ... they need to take order artefakts.
or did i misunderstood you ?!
We're talking about having a Guardians of Alarielle battalion, where the SCE become Sylvaneth.
let me check
Azyr doesn't allow the Lord-Castellant to take ANY artefacts or battle traits.
“However, if the SYLVANETH Allegiance is chosen, the Stormcast Eternal units from the Guardians of Alarielle battalion would not benefit from anySYLVANETHallegiance abilities because those units themselves don’t have the SYLVANETH keyword.” P.117 GHB 2017
Battle Traits and Artefacts are “Allegiance Abilities”
Azyr is directly in line with the GHB.
yes, agreed
I'm still confused as to why Pestilens in Nurgle armies fall back to CHAOS selections though.
And yet ... TK with TK Allegiance to get Skeletal Archers can take Death Allegiance ...
Technically the Pestillins qualify for none of the traits in Maggotkin. (Excepting the Verminlord)
A sub-Allegiance can always CHOOSE to use the Grand Alliance ones if they want.
and it appears that it is assumed you will ALWAYS do this if your Allegiance has no abilities of its own.
hence why TK get Death
Perhaps the issue with the guardians of Alarielle is that the SCE have no Sylvaneth Allegiance and are quasi treated like Allies
true
A special case of Allies, but Allies none the less
I think it's something like that
Theory: Nurgle Allegiance and the GUO example. Can you take Allegiance Chaos Battle Traits in the Azyr app?
What is GUO ?
Or Great Unclean One
I would say no because you can choose between nurgle or chaos not both
Potentially, @Mad-Spy noted that if a GUO General in a NURGLE chose NURGLE DAEMON Traits that Pestillins units would be limited to CHAOS Battle Traits. Can the GUO chose CHAOS Battle Traits, even with NURGLE allegiance?
the whole army can choose to use Chaos instead of Nurgle, yes.
retaining NURGLE allegiance, but using CHAOS allegiance abilities
So ... that sounds like as long as they meet the allegiance, they can use anything they qualify for. If they can’t meet the Allegiance then they get nothing.
it would appear that way. If you can find any other cross-alliance battalions then I can see how /if Azyr supports them.
The Sylvaneth have several ...
They’re not amazingly common. There are Allegiances that cover multiple factions ... but few Warscroll battalions.
The Everchosen ones (fatesworn, pleasureband etc)
I think the key on the Everchosen ones is that they allow you to bring units into an Everchosen Army...
Though I’m not sure that’s as much of a “thing” as there isn’t any Everchosen Allegiance.
The thing is ... if you choose an Army and all units are from for example IRONJAWZ you can choose between IRONJAWZ allegiance or Destruction allegiance... if you want to play Ironjawz and Bestclaw Raiders you can only choose Destruction. But if you take bestclaw raiders with 400 Points as allies you wont loose your ironjawz allegiance ...but bestclaw raiders wont profit from the ironjawz battletraits
@exoddus79_twitter, yes that's all fine. The issue we're discussing is cross-faction battalions, which are problematic because the units which don't belong to the Allegiance actually DO get the relevant allegiance, but not the associated keyword.
@Mad-Spy So, follow the example that you stood up in the test catalog for the split out? And figure the alliances later?
Yeah, you'll need to include all of the possible allegiances to which the units can belong in the cat allegiance list.
As usual, more of a pain for me than anyone else.
Well ... when we break stuff up, it can help with breaking up the work
So, do we want to include them as “Allegiance:X” or just “X” in the gst?
I meant in terms of remembering which Allegiances are valid!
There's no allegiance picklist in the gst.
Just a category
So, is the Category for the Allegiance name in the gst?
That piece is moved there, from inside the normal cat?
I thought that was how we were proposing to handle cross validation for Allies?
No. Theres a category named allegiance which is used for the validation. Your picklist needs to have that category.
So: the picklist (in the cat) eg
Allegiance
|_Khorne
|_Tzeentch
Allegiance
|_Khorne
|_Tzeentch
And ALLEGIANCE is a category in the gst? Or the actual Allegiance names need to be in the gst!
? Not !
Okay ... so, it looks like stuff is still staying in the cat? How do we handle cross cat validation for Allies, if the category isn’t in the gst?
Here’s a reasonable cross-reference for the Allegiance/Ally List: https://aosshorts.com/age-sigmar-allies-matrix-updated/
hm ...
I have Entries with "(not local)" in DataEditor
They are in the GST file for Age of Sigmar, that way we can "share" some things between cats :)
ah okay
I see you have started by zero? because some units which was in older version of AoS are deleted?
We are primarily focused on the current Pitched Battle lists. And don’t have the capacity to support non-current editions. Many of the older units have been renamed in the newer edition
non-current editions?
in the first General Handbook there are in Order Pitched Battle Profiles Wanderer and in Compendium Pitched Battle Profiles Wood Elves.
and in GH17 there is no Compendium Pitched Battle Profile, so the Units are not interesting anymore?
and in GH17 there is no Compendium Pitched Battle Profile, so the Units are not interesting anymore?
is it wrong to add units from the "old" compendium to the new CAT files?
check the newest compendiums on the website
GW has updated them.
ok found it
ok ... but then I come back to my first question ... some units are missing ... so I can add them :)
The GHB 2017 replaces the original edition
If it isn’t in the 2017 Edition they are no longer current
See page 86 the section labeled “UPDATED PROFILES AUGUST 2017”
so ... in the GHB2017 there are only 12 Wanderer Units ... so all other Units are not longer playable?
The units that were removed are likely in a ‘use this model instead’ section
Though, some units may have been removed entirely
@OftKilted weren’t all the compendiums updated with PBP?
They have a pbp at the end of them
yeah that’s what i meant lol
yes ... and why they should not be playable anymore in pitched battle?
There is for example the "Shadowdancer" ... in 2017er Wood Elves Compendium it has a WarScroll and a Pitched Battle Profile at the End of the Document. In GH17 it is not.
So is should not be added to BattleScribe?
So is should not be added to BattleScribe?
Okay. Look at the bottom of the Compendium. If the Compendium version is the most recent, then you’re good. However ....
The keywords for almost all of the units changed
So, the keyword interaction and synergy between the old Wood Elves (2015) and Sylvaneth changed.
When they implemented the 2017 Compendium version.
So, if they’re in the 2017 Compendium, add them in.
Jut keep a look out for the KEYWORD changes between the editions. Those will need to be cleaned up (If profiles had been created previously.)
2017
ok, thanks :)
than I have not lost my hope in this project gg
one more question :)
How we do with that:
SUBSTITUTE WARSCROLLS
The following do not have warscrolls. Instead, use the substitute warscrolls listed below.
Glade Lord. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Nomad Prince/Shadowdancer/Waystrider
The following do not have warscrolls. Instead, use the substitute warscrolls listed below.
Glade Lord. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Nomad Prince/Shadowdancer/Waystrider
There is no Warscrall for Nomad Prince and Waystrider g
and the Shadowdancer Warscroll (which is Magic) makes no sense for the Glade Lord (which is a better archer
lol?
:smile:
okay ...
I am losing my hope in GamesWorkshop :P
I can get it for you in English?
now I know where I have to search
So, many of the old units are being moved. This unit now has an available plastic model
So, instead of using the old unsupported rules, that didn’t have a model, you can use the new rules...
Well, there was support ... but the model wasn’t a newer plastic model.
I won’t disagree that there were changes, and that some of the changes didn’t help out :(
nickt
sry ... node
That unit has a longbow
so ... the Glade Lord uses the Warscrolls from all three ... this makes sense, because he have a hawk and the Nomad also has a hawk
so I have to pick the informations from all three :D
no i think you pick one of the three
not combine all three
that makes no sense g
I am not saying I put all three together
I use the old Compendium and pick the entries for the weapons
from the new warscrolls of these three models
No ....
because he has the hawk from the nomad and the bow from the other
no you use one of the datasheets
the old is gone completely
If you want to use the Glade Lord.... you choose one of these other three warscrolls instead of using the old Glade Lord Warscroll
lol
^this
okay ... nice idea ... Glade Lord is dead now :)
Yes.
So, do you want a “Waystrider” themed glade Lord, or a Nomad Prince styled glade lord, or a Shadowdancer style Glade Lord
just like for Tomb Kings if i want settra or arkahn i have to use the exalted king on charriot
Yes, the Glade Lord is “dead” and has three different options that they can be replaced with
or whatever they call the big charriot model
ok
thanks
I believe that was the Tomb King on Exalted Chariot
What’s your thoughts on the death.cat @alphalas ?
shit that’s what i was supposed to do past few days lol
snow storm fizzled so i’ve been busy doing everything else lol
I’ve been updating it in the AoS-v2.0 Branch
We’ll likely be splitting stuff out.
But that is the latest... haven’t gotten the command/Allegiance Traits sorted for TK yet.
newest commission ive picked up
Treelords! Lording Trees of Tree-ness!
yup
4 lords, drycha, 9 kurnoth, 50 dryads, 4 branchwyches, branchwraith, 10 revs
After I get my Destruction Army in a good place those will be next (since I'm not buying any more Tau at this rate...)
I'll be interested in hearing if there's any "gotchas" or tips you have on those as well :)
Well, have fun, I’m still plugging away on my Silver Tower set (and Shadespire) I have all the adversaries from the base set completed. And the core exalted adversaries .. though I need to redo the Exalted Flamer ... due to base size problems. :worried:
honestly after having built roughly half of the dryads i’m glad i already have seraphon (and stormiest/bloodbound); otherwise id be mighty tempted to play sylvaneth
Your Seraphon are such a dream ... (of the Slaan...)
(Those Celestial Daemons are all in someone’s head ...)
There is no Shares Selection Entrie for "Fly"?
Thats the reference photo I’m working off of
It’s a Profile, not a rule
ah
Rules show up in strange places when you display your roster.
ok
If you find something that you think should be a global shared rule/item let us know, so we can talk about it and add it if needed
It’s definitely a tree. A rather pretty birch
ok
yup - birch is what i’m going for lol
:+1:
yeah customer wants winter themed birch
Something like this https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWQULARU8AA5WZb.jpg with green leaves instead of orange might work
Oh ... winter hmmm
That’s a lot of white ... and dead things
that treelord is similar to what i’m planning to do
start with mech grey base coat, then work up from there
probably do micron black in the swirls
That’s really monochrome ... what are you doing for spot color?
prbably brown or orange on leaves; idk otherwise tbh lol
I ask this again, because I am at this point the first time and maybe there is a simple answer :)
I have my new SSE of "Glade Lord on Great Egale"
I have the two links in the RSE
I have the two links in the RSE
on for Standard and one for Ally
but where can I find which Allys I have?
Ok...
I have never used this in Warhammer ever g
So ... if this is for Wanderers, it will either be listed in the GHB 2017
Or in the Compendium 2017
(Or wood elves)
If there are no Allies listed, then they do not have any allies
As an example, Tomb Kings don’t have Allies either
And are not on the Ally list for any other units.
So you can skip the Ally RSE
(Allies are new in the GHB 2017)
(And they’re my biggest headache)
mmmmhmmm
in the compendium there is no allies listed
in the GHB2017 the unit is not listed
So, they don’t have any allies.
so I only need the 3 entries force wanderer, pitched battle and no fraction?
Is their faction listed on any Pitched Battle Profile lists in the Allies: section?
the fraction yes
ooh
I understand ...
thats for the second entry
but thats easy ... only copy from other wanderer unit
whats about the four entries in the Standard RSE?
Force in Allies with Sylaneth, Wanderers, Order, Stormcast Eternals
Force in Allies with Sylaneth, Wanderers, Order, Stormcast Eternals
Are you working on the Order cat or have you split Sylvaneth out?
i am working in the order.cat in a new branch
Tbh, i wouldn't worry too much about RSEs right now because you'll need to redo them after splitting. Just make one so you can test the display.
ok
I think I’ll start by splitting out FEC.
@Mad-Spy Did you catch my Allies matrix link?
Yeah. Seen that one before. I assume you're suggesting using it for Allegiance names? Probably makes sense.
It's either that or we crib them all from Azyr and lose the ones that we don't think need to be there?
There are 4 people working in the order catalog at moment in various private branches. To keep merge conflicts to a minimum it is wise to push smaller updates more frequently than to have a long lived branch collecting many changes.
In order, I am working on getting the minor faction points and abilities updated. I will create a pull request later today. Next up I will finish up the SE. @FreylisUK is working on KO.
@FreylisUK is starting on DoK after that.
@Cupropituvanso is working on Sylvaneth and Wanderers.