These are chat archives for BSData/warhammer-age-of-sigmar

12th
Mar 2018
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 10:45
@alphalas Yeah ... not quite my favorite.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 12 2018 11:20
You and me both lol
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 11:43
How does 40k handle cross cat validation? Are the associated “categories” in the gst?
@alphalas
@Mad-Spy I’m just in profile input phase for Death. All the Artefacts and Command Traits and validation framework is in.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 12 2018 11:51
We don’t really have cross-cat validation except for FW astartes I think
And that’s in the FW cat I think
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 11:55
To be honest, given the complexity, I think I'm at the stage of "let the user do it".
it seems to work for 40k alright.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 12:54
@mad-spy So, solve the issue by basically doing what you set split cats to do?
Much like what the official Warscroll builder web validation does?
And less like Azyr
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 13:06
(Btw, I liked how you did Allies in the modified gst)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 13:06
I think we should concentrate on getting split cats in place, because it massively simplifies maintenance for us and allows us to distribute work without causing these merge issues.
Bringing Allies in via the mechanism I've put into the branch allows us to get the basic functionality working asap.
If users use it to create invalid lists, then that's up to their opponent or a TO to catch. We may be able to get it working in the future, but I think that using our time to work on it right now is probably too much.
Simon Barlow
@FreylisUK
Mar 12 2018 13:32
Okay, so I think I have the KO entries in a clean Order.cat from AoS-v2.0 ready to be merged. I've created the pull request and, once merged, I'll crack on with the DoK which I'd half-started.
One quick question about the Aetherstrike Force Battalion: It's valid for both SE and KO and uses units from both factions, but I'm guessing we only want one entry in the cat for it? If so, what prefix should I use for the entry? I was thinking of making the SE one the default given that it originated with them.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 13:34
@FreylisUK, I suggest you split them out into a separate catalogue now.
Simon Barlow
@FreylisUK
Mar 12 2018 13:34
Hah!
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 13:34
^^DoK that is
Simon Barlow
@FreylisUK
Mar 12 2018 13:34
Ah, I thought you meant the KO, which I've re-added twice now :smile:
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 13:34
They'll need to be done at some point. It's up to you when you do them :)
Simon Barlow
@FreylisUK
Mar 12 2018 13:35
After the evening I had last night I may wait for a bit :smile:
I'll split out the DoK and continue working on them in my branch then.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 13:37
If you're going to do it based on the main branch, I recommend you don't do any RSEs yet as you'll need the GST changes to do them properly.
Simon Barlow
@FreylisUK
Mar 12 2018 13:39
No problem. I'll get all the entry data added and leave the RSEs for now until the updates make it into the main branch.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 13:46
@Mad-Spy do you want to just update the gst in the AoS 2.0 Branch?
Do we need to put the GA categories into the gst?
(I see you had CHAOS in the gst)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 13:48
It saves having to duplicate them in every catalogue ;)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 13:49
Yeah ... do you want to do the honors for the GST update? And add in the GA categories?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 13:51
It's not finished yet, I only implemented the force changes for 1000pts so I could test it. I might get chance to look at it tonight.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 13:51
While we’re at it, do we want to gut the PBF?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 13:51
that's a per catalogue change, and we'll be recreating most of them.
so it can come out as the cats get recreated
then it'll just need sorting in the Grand Alliances.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 13:52
For “future-proofing” is adding the Alliances into the gst useful!
Useful?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 13:54
I'm not sure how I see it working yet. We can't just throw all of the Alliances into a single list, because I don't know how we can restrict them based on GA.
and having multiple lists is just a pain
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 13:56
Having the categories for the alliances in the gst makes possible validation easier.
Allegiance ...
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 13:57
did we decide on a final list of Allegiances then :)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 14:00
Anything that has allegiance Abilities.
So ... TK wouldn’t have it in the gst, but Nighthaunt and Soulblight would
Deathrattle wouldn’t, but Grand Host of Nagash would
At least that’s my thought.
If they do Battle Traits and Artefacts, the keyword should be in the gst
If there are no Battle Traits/Artefacts then cross validation (or validation outside of the CAT may not be necessary)
So, Tamurkhan’s Horde, No. Nurgle, yes.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 14:06
I still need to poke at “Allegiance: The Wraith Fleet” and figure out that piece. It I don’t think it will be horrible.
And it makes it (potentially) more consistent down the road. The additional Allegiances with Battle Traits (etc) is substantially less than the overall number of keywords.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 14:23

So From a "CORE" perspective:
ORDER
KHARADRON OVERLORDS
DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE
STORMCAST ETERNALS
SYLVANETH
DARKLING COVENS
DISPOSSESSED
FREE PEOPLES
FYRESLAYERS
SERAPHON
WANDERERS

CHAOS
BRAYHERD
SLAANESH
SLAVES TO DARKNESS
SKAVEN PESTILENS
SKAVEN SKRYRE
KHORNE
TZEENTCH
NURGLE

DEATH
FLESH-EATER COURTS
NIGHTHAUNT
SOULBLIGHT
GRAND HOST OF NAGASH
LEGION OF BLOOD
LEGION OF SACRAMENT
LEGION OF NIGHT
THE WRAITH FLEET

DESTRUCTION
IRONJAWZ
BEASTCLAW RAIDERS
BONESPLITTERZ

I might have missed one or two ... but I believe that covers most of the Allegiances with Battle Traits/Allegiance Abilities.

OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 14:40
I count that out at ~32-33 ... not including the additional ones in the FIRESTORM Supplement.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 14:59
@OftKilted, can you throw that list into an issue so we have a record of what we're intending to add? thx
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 15:23
Opened #168
I've added in the Firestorm allegiances as well. As they have Allegiance Abilities.
Let me know if I've missed any Allegiances that have 'Allegiance Abilities'/Battle Traits/Artefacts/Command Traits.
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Mar 12 2018 16:31
@FreylisUK I am chasing your merges now. I will attempt to remerge after your pull request is merged. Starting the DoK in a standalone catalog is the way to go.
tekton
@tekton
Mar 12 2018 16:39
@OftKilted I'll go back through a couple things for stuff to add to #168 - I think GROT and MOONCLAN are the first couple I can think of, but if we're just going for allegiance abilities then I'll find the specific ones
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 16:47
@tekton Neither of them have Allegiance Abilities/etc. Or is there a Grot/Moonclan Allegiance abilities that I missed somewhere?
If they're just 'battleline-if' situations then that could be kept in the catalog for them ... Those almost might make more sense to keep in a 'Grand Alliance' catalog of sorts, as they haven't had their own battletome. The Grots are quasi-compendium units? (They were in the GA:Destruction battletome, but I haven't seen them outside of that.)
tekton
@tekton
Mar 12 2018 16:54
The harbringer is a Moonclan Grot, and theres something else- just wanted to mention I'm looking ;)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 16:54
And the Harbinger can be in any Destruction army.
It's not as much an 'Allegiance' it's a KEYWORD? right?
(You remind me that I really should get one of those for my Moonclan army ... that is all on square bases.)
tekton
@tekton
Mar 12 2018 16:56
I'll check it when I get home tonight
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 17:04
It might make sense to have the Harbingers in the GST.
tekton
@tekton
Mar 12 2018 17:05
I had thought about that as well
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 17:08
That being said, there isn't an Allegiance ability for Grots/Moonclan grots that I can find.
Unless we're adding in the Harbingers to the GST, I'm slightly hesitant to add Moonclan or grot.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 17:54
Harbingers still belong to their Faction, but they can be generals when they are an ally. They don't need to be in the GST.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 17:55
So. What cat are they in?
The Faction cat for their core faction? (Stormcast, Moonclan, Slaves to Darkness?)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 17:56
The one they belong to. Darkoath Warqueen in Slaves, etc.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 17:56
Sounds good. I’m game with that.
Solves the issue of putting them into a gst. :smile:
Can they join an army even if they aren’t in the Allies?
If so, perhaps they should be in a Malign Portents cat.
Or we just ignore that as we’re having users handle Allies validation.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 18:00
Yes, they're allowed to join an army in matched play.
tekton
@tekton
Mar 12 2018 18:32
how far down do we want to split these cats? what happens when there's a single unit in that "allegiance"? A "catch all" cat per Grand Alliance would seem appropriate at that point?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 18:38
Yes, tiny allegiances should stay in a Grand Alliance catalogue.
I'm not going to split out Thunderscorn or any of the other tiny factions. I recommend that the general rule is that if they don't have their own allegiance abilities, they stay in the GA.
tekton
@tekton
Mar 12 2018 18:41
sounds good
sorry if i asked before, coming out of concussion protocol from last week- over it now, so i can get back to my real work: getting this cat better
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 12 2018 18:43
We hadn't really decided any of this a week ago, so you're good!
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 19:00
@tekton ufff ... take care of yourself. Those can be horrible for health issues.
tekton
@tekton
Mar 12 2018 20:08
@OftKilted it's been a few months of weird health issues, my wife and our felines are making sure i take care of myself, too
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 21:09
:+1:
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 12 2018 22:04
@FreylisUK and ... merged