These are chat archives for BSData/warhammer-age-of-sigmar

13th
Mar 2018
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 01:57
And ... with the exception of The Wraith Fleet ... Death is at a 2.0 release state.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 02:25
Apparently the 'FIRESTORM' 'allegiance abilities' can only be used if you're basically taking a 'quasi-grand alliance' army ... that has restrictions.
So it's a 'grand alliance army' from a battle trait perspective, with additional abilities.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 12:49
@Mad-Spy The Firestorm Campaign Allegiance Abilities aren’t “Allegiances” so much as just a layered on Allegiance Ability that is accessible when using the Grand Alliance... it might make more sense to merely put them into an SSEG under the Grand Alliance. From that perspective it might not make sense to add them into the GST. They don’t appear to be a keyword.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 13:02
And do a flag with an Organization requirement of some kind. (Like we did with the battalion organization profile.)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 13:19
I don't think we need to support Campaign play, at least not in the initial release.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 13 2018 13:25
That’s probably fair
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 13:29
Reasonable. Given that it only works with Grand Alliance armies ... That sounds pretty reasonable.
Given that I have the data in, I might move it to an SSEG under Allegiance: Grand Alliance Death. Based on the Faq ruling.
But I’m not going to put any more effort into it. And pulling it from the issue also makes sense
But given that you’re amazingly on the ball and have already entered all the data ... in just going to grab myself another hot cup of well steeped black tea.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 13:59
Set the Firestorm Campaign support as a separate issue.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 13:59
and I've updated to say that it's not required yet :)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 14:17
Sounds good to me. :+1:
And the Harbingers and Shadespire?
Garrek’s Reavers is amusing in that it has the BLOODREAVERS keyword ... doesn’t qualify as battleline and because the Battalions don’t include keywords for Bloodreavers ... merely Bloodreavers as a unit they are entirely in the “Other” requirement
Similar to The Sepulchral Guard in Death.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 14:20
they're valid for matched play, so i think they should be in. It's only a couple of units so it's not like it's a massive overhead
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 14:22
Are we going to do the catalog split before the release?
What is required for an official release for us?
I should get the harbinger and the Shadespire in, and that basically covers Death as a monolithic catalogue
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 14:36
Yes, I think we should do the split.
Just for our sanity going forward.
For release, I think we should have up-to-date points and profiles based on the latest FAQs and Allegiance abilities.
Actual Ally validation can wait, because we haven't really worked out how/if we can do it properly.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 14:38
Okay. Kick off the gst change.
Are we doing the catalogues based on Allegiance?
Or by battletome?
Core Allegiance would make most sense.
Are we pulling PBF as a component? To put it closer in line with Azyr and what looks like the GHB 2017 direction?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 14:41
Yes, Allegiance and dump PBF.
Mostly in line with the list you made in #168
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 14:42
For Death, with the Legions of Nagash, I’m debating leaving them in a “Legions of Nagash” catalogue...
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 14:42
yes, makes sense. I'll probably do a single "Skaven" catalogue.
then one per God, Slaves to Darkness and the rest in a GA catalogue
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 14:44
So, stuff like the DP and Soul Grinder? Are those going to be duplicated accross catalogues?
So Brayherds, Everchosen Etc. In the GA?
Death has a relatively small split. FEC, Legions of Nagash ... and then the Compendiums. (TK and VC)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 14:53
If it has Allegiance abilities. it's going in its own catalogue.
but I reserve the right to combine them at a higher level where I feel it's appropriate
e.g. Skaven
DP is duplicated, as it's in both StD and Daemons of Chaos. Soulgrinder is DoC only, so it stays in the GA
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 14:57
I could see that. I’m expecting a Skaven battletome (or Hordes of the Horned Rat ....)
Soul Grinder also is Markable
That’s the only reason I’d even suggest that it fall into the Chaos deity lists
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:00
You'd add GA as a sister force (not Allies) and add it from there, same with StD or Pestilens in Nurgle.
or if you want to make a Grand Alliance army.
you have to make it of several catalogues. It's the same in 40k
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:03
So, my planned split is LoN, and FEC. I could either split the TK and VC out together, or drop them into “Mini-cats” but it probably makes more sense to just put them in a GA:Death cat by themselves.
What’s your thought?
Given that they’re Compendium ... my belief in long term support for them is ... limited
tekton
@tekton
Mar 13 2018 15:05
rolled in to a death cat with sepulcher guard seems decent
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:07
The Sepulchral Guard actually could fit into a DEATHRATTLE Army so it actually makes more sense to put them into LoN. :worried:
As that is where the rest of the deathrattle will be
You just can’t have them in a standard Legion army.
tekton
@tekton
Mar 13 2018 15:09

I thought this FAQ overrode that

Q: Can the Sepulchral Guard be taken in a Legion of
Nagash army?

A: No, but you should feel free to add the models to
units of Skeleton Warriors.

Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:10
in as much as you can use the models as Skeleton Warriors
you can't take them as a specific "Sepulchral Guard" unit in anything but DEATHRATTLE.
tekton
@tekton
Mar 13 2018 15:11
k
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:11
Deathrattle is still a valid Allegiance.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:12
Yep, it still is. Doesn’t have any allegiance Abilities. But still quite valid.
tekton
@tekton
Mar 13 2018 15:13
just seems weird to be in the LoN cat when it can't be used with LoN is all
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:13
That’s just where all the other deathrattle are
Rather than dealing with the “Where is the SG” question or serious duplication of cat data
Which is why my thought process is LoN, FEC and potentially doing TK and VC as separate.
The Harbinger would go in LoN, as that’s where the rest of the Nighthaunt are
The only reason to not do VC and TK as Separate are the replication Of Command Traits/Allegiance etc.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:17
LoN isn't an Allegiance, it's just a catch-all for units which are in the Legions of Nagash Battletome.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:18
It isn’t, but with the exception of Nagash, the other 3 Allegiances can take any units from the battletome
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:18
That battletome includes rules for units which can have Soulblight, Deathrattle, Deathlords, Nighthaunt Allegiances.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:18
Soulblight and Nighthaunt are technically able to be separate
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:19
or the new allegiances which were introduced in the Battletome.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:20
Yep, which is why there is definite hazyness.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:21
your Allegiance SEG in the LoN cat needs to contain all of those allegiances and show/hide units appropriately.
in the case of the Sepulchral Guard, they'll only show up when Allegiance = Deathrattle.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:21
Yeah ... Im pretty sure they’re doing that now
Just have to make sure that everything transfers nicely on the catalog split
Or allegiance = Death
Er what?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:24
RSEs should be simpler in the split because you only have to worry about Allegiances, not PBF as we're dumping it.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:25
They should be substantially simpler
Ally hiding might also be easier.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:27
you don't even need to hide them now
the only hiding is on battlefield role switching
which is allegiance based
and you don't select an allegiance in Allied forces, so the switch can't trigger.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:29
Soulblight still has specific allies.
So is it Catalog X with a child catalog for allies using Catalog X?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:30
yes, if they're in the same catalog
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:31
And let them figure out the valid units themselves?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:31
But as we're not (currently) going to do Ally validation, you should just be able to select anything in the catalog.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:33
Well, update our GST ... and we can get cracking. :)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:33
I did it a while back... I don't have time to put all th allegiances in right now.
Currently it's only working on 1000pts, but I'll update the others tomorrow night.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:35
Ahh, you merged the multi-test into Aos-v2.0
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:35
yes...
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:36
It's the lack of the activity feed that threw me. ;)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:38
Now mine is working properly.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:39
I see it currently as well.
Is the activity on a repo basis? or per user?
I haven't dug intop the feed much.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:40
repo
I just had to reconfiure it
I think all the integrations were pointing to non-existent repos.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:41
Not unsurprising.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:50
So, if a unit is a 'Battleline' unit. We need an RSE for 'Battleline', an RSE for 'Other'
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:51
yes
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:51
If a unit is 'Battleline-if' unit, we still would only need the two.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:51
and yes
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:52
Leaders can 'get away' with just one RSE.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:52
yes
only units which actually switch role need more than one.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:54
So Battleline and Battleline-if. Anything else just stays the same?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:54
pretty much
image.png
For now anyway.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:55
So, the only general that can be both an ally and a general is the harbinger
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:56
the only unit that I'm aware of, yes.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:56
Which means that's the only unit that matters for Command Traits as an ally.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:57
no, because they only get command traits for their own Allegiance.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 15:57
Can they take GA Command traits if setup as a General as an Ally?
Or is that one of those 'probably needs a faq?/clarification'
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 15:58
not according to Azyr
they can take GA traits if the Army is GA, but then you wouldn't be taking them as an Ally anyway
the example in the MP book seems pretty clear to me
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 16:00
And no ... "A Harbinger can only be given a command trait or artefact if they also share a keyword of that army's allegiance'
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 16:01
yeah, so if you have a SCE army, the Lord-Ordinator can be the general and have traits. If you take a Sylvaneth army, he can be the general (as an Ally), but can't have any traits.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 16:02
So, hiding those if instance of Allies.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 16:02
they should be hidden based on Allegiance like they are now?
and additionally if allies for the Harbinger
yes
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 16:03
Given that one could choose either the GA or the Sub-Faction traits (or it could be argued that they could)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 16:04
that needs implementing separately.
which I haven't done yet. Repurposing the PBF picklist seems sensible as it's already there.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 16:06
I just went 'relaxed' and opened up the ability to choose GA:Death also if a sub-faction was chosen, as long as the ancestor was an instance of DEATH
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 16:06
fair enough
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 16:07
And let the user determine the legitimacy
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 16:07
but it's either/or, not a combination.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 16:07
Because it made it easier with the heavy level of validation we were doing.
or heavier.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 16:08
I'm probably going to do it as an explicit choice, to match Azyr. It should be simpler in the split cat situation.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 16:13
Given that the FEC (if you're doing the huge battalion) has 9 Warscroll Battalions which means 10 artefacts, which can only be chosen once each .. either you max out at 6, or can take both ...
FEC and DEATH
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 16:14
no
max 6
Also, how many points are you playing!!!!
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 16:15
I'm talking entire theoretical ... a huge mega-battle ...
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 16:15
I know. It's like how the Brayherd battalion can be anything from 900 to 9000 points
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 16:15
I believe in 40k ... they called those 'Apocalypse' mega battles
Well ... that's another level of insanity ... 900 to 9000 ...
Me personally ... most of what I've played has been 'Path to Glory'
And Shadespire.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 16:20
(and the occasional Mega battle)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 18:40
SHADESPIRE FTW!!!
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 18:41
I'm liking it. It's good stuff, awesome looking models
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 18:41
I just love that I can play it in a lunch hour at work :)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 18:41
And a variety of stuff to paint. :+1: That's also a bonus.
I remember the old '40K in 40 Minutes' program.
Those games seemed to take much longer than 40 minutes ...
I'
I'm looking forward to the Khorne Blood Warriors unit, and the SCE Vanguard unit.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 18:44
yeah, me too. I've been trying to work out their Inspire conditions. I'm kind of expecting that the Khorne might inspire on a Crit to Hit, or if they kill a model, but otherwise they'll be similar to SCE stats-wise
vanguard I'm really not sure, given they're likely to all be ranged primary attacks
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 18:45
Yeah ... the ranged primary attacks will be ... different. Not entirely sure how I feel about them. It gives a solid reason to do board change-ups.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 18:46
I suspect they'll favour short-edge touching board setups
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 18:52
And their opponents will aim to have more LoS blocking
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 13 2018 18:54
I had some fun with Earthquake yesterday. Used it to slide 3 of my models onto objectives :)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Mar 13 2018 18:55
Nice