These are chat archives for BSData/warhammer-age-of-sigmar

25th
Apr 2018
tekton
@tekton
Apr 25 2018 06:15
rehearsal went long, i added the couple notes to what i'm working on across the board; going to take a nap then try to finish it out since we're close and i'm blocking- have fun
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 13:11
@tekton Have you done any work on Destruction since the last commit 19 days ago?
@Cupropituvanso Do you still need your Branch for bugfixes?
@alphalas Do you still need your Alphalasv2 branch? It appears to have been merged
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 25 2018 13:16
@/all Running thru a test pass on Destruction right now. Creating issues as I go.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 13:18
@rweyrauch Not sure that the most recent destruction catalog in v2.0 is the most recent work by @tekton
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 25 2018 13:19
@OftKilted Hmm. Then I shall wait.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 13:19
The last update of the destruction files is from 19 days ago.
We could use a FAQ go-through on Chaos to close out the GHB and GA:Chaos faqs
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 25 2018 13:20
@OftKilted Yeah. I'll wait for @tekton to respond.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 13:23
@FreylisUK any updates on the Legion of Azgorah?
@mdtm1g14 How's everything with Deepkin going? You doing alright over there?
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 25 2018 13:31
@OftKilted Is the Chaos.cat required any longer? When loaded in the RosterEditor it shows no units only an Allegiance selector.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 13:33
@rweyrauch To be absolutely honest ... I don't believe it is required ... unless it is for Compendium forces.... None of Skaven or Tzeentch are in it...
It might be worthwhile to peek into it and verify that the units are elsewhere ... and if they are to make it go Poof
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 25 2018 13:36
@OftKilted There are still quite a few units left in the Chaos.cat. Only the Allegience has a RSE. I'll dig into this deeper.
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 25 2018 13:42
@OftKilted The Chaos.cat needs some attention. It will need to contain the misc factions that did not get their own catalog (Warherds, Thunderscorn, Chaos Gargants and Daemons of Chaos).
tekton
@tekton
Apr 25 2018 13:44
There’s quite a few changes, and one small GST shared entry I wanted to add for general selection
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 13:44
@rweyrauch There might be merit in splitting those into individual catalogs. (To help with 'Allies validation'
What kind of 'gst shared entry' are you trying to do for the General?
There are implementation guidelines for handling the 'General' in the Wiki.
@tekton (Good morning btw)
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 25 2018 13:47
@OftKilted There are only 11 units that remain in the Chaos.cat. Probably not worth it to split them out. The Order.cat contains a bunch of similar small factions.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 13:48
@rweyrauch The reason to do it is because of how we handle Allies.
But that could be a v2.1 initiative.
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 25 2018 13:49
@OftKilted I can certainly split the 4 remaining Chaos factions into their own catalogs. There are only 11 units total.
@OftKilted At the very least for v2.0, the extra junk in the Chaos.cat must be removed.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 13:50
Just thinking with the potential changes to Battlescribe being implemented by Jon https://github.com/BattleScribe/Release/issues/9#issuecomment-382591210
tekton
@tekton
Apr 25 2018 13:50
@OftKilted that was also in there before we split things up
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 13:51
@tekton Not surprising ... a total cleanup of the files has been ... a long time in coming.
tekton
@tekton
Apr 25 2018 13:54
yup! so adding in the general flag lets us check it in all the cats- no one else needs to use it, i can even just name it "Destruction General"
Simon Barlow
@FreylisUK
Apr 25 2018 13:55
@OftKilted All done bar bug fixing, which I shall hopefully have time to finish off this week.
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 25 2018 13:56
@OftKilted Making a lot of progress with the Idoneth, managed to sort a method to test things, working on the RSEs now and working out how to make things hidden based on conclave, general and alligience
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 13:57
@mdtm1g14 Take a look at the Chaos Skaven catalog.
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 25 2018 13:58
@/all Hey the whole gang is here. Good morning or whatever your current time zone warrants.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 13:58
@mdtm1g14 and @FreylisUK :+1: Awesome job both of you! Thanks for your work :)
Simon Barlow
@FreylisUK
Apr 25 2018 13:59
:sparkles:
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 25 2018 13:59
Yeah thats what I was about to do, hopefully should be all finished up soon assuming I can get all the bugs ironed out
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:00
@mdtm1g14 It's probably the best example of a hide if not example ... And the cleanest implementation that I've done for the hiding bits.
While Legions of Nagash and Tzeentch are functionally working, they're overly complex.
@Mad-Spy pointed me at a much better implementation in how the skaven catalog was done. it can be cleaned up in LoN and Tzeentch after the release.
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 25 2018 14:01
@OftKilted I think I have found the issue I was having, I missed the look in all children option
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:01
That does it every time :)
@rweyrauch Because we're not doing Allegiances as a category of 'Allegiance: X' and we just have a Category doing a proper Hide for allies is messier for the grand alliance catalog
@tekton When you get a chance, push up a commit for Destruction and we can start taking a look through the catalogs with you.
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 25 2018 14:06
@OftKilted Can you have a look at the Order.cat to make sure that what is currently implemented in Order meets v2.0 expectations wrt to Allies?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:06
@tekton Why are you doing a 'destruction general'? (what is it that I'm missing?) There is already a Category for 'GENERAL' .... and it validates across multi-catalog forces ...
tekton
@tekton
Apr 25 2018 14:07
@OftKilted that's a category, not what it needed for a flag
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:07
@tekton I'm apparently missing your reference for 'Flag' ...
Creating the General SSE per catalog allows you to link the Command traits directly under the applicable SSE, and then hide if they're an instance of allies ...
The SSE has the Category specifically flagged, and as you can only have one 'GENERAL' per roster, it validates against the roster.
tekton
@tekton
Apr 25 2018 14:10
@OftKilted Leader unit, say Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon, has a checkbox for if they're the general or not
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:12
Correct. So does every other unit that can be General.
With you so far.
tekton
@tekton
Apr 25 2018 14:13
Instead of making one per cat since it's just referencing a SSE, I wanted to put in the GST so a grand alliance destruction Leader from any cat is validating agains the same general SSE
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:14
Here's the problem.
When I select that 'General' SSE checkbox, that then 'flips on' the option for Command Traits
Unless they're a Named leader.
SSE's in the GST don't allow me to do that.
Because you can't do modifiers in a friendly way on items in the GST (that may require modifiers or conditions)
tekton
@tekton
Apr 25 2018 14:15
Thus why people don't need to use it everywhere
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:16
Which is why we don't put it in the GST.
You also can't use that SSE when handling General is X and Alliance is Y battleline.
Which is why the Category method is consistent.
tekton
@tekton
Apr 25 2018 14:17
we put the command traits and artefacts in the gst for this same purpose though
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:17
But they have no modifiers.
No requirement to be hidden if instance of allies.
For example, You can make the Fungoid shaman your general.
Even if they're in Allies ....
tekton
@tekton
Apr 25 2018 14:18
correct
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:18
But they don't get Command Traits.
tekton
@tekton
Apr 25 2018 14:19
but in my cat SSE for command traits i can have it checking the general flag and only the show the valid ones as well
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:20
So, why check the general flag?
If the Command Traits are actually linked under the SSE for the General, they don't even show up.
i.e. You're not actually doing a separate link reference for Command Traits.
You just do a 'hide if ancestor is instance of <named character>' on the command traits link inside the SSE for the General.
The chaos skaven cat does it nicely.
The hiding the invalid ones can be done as a 'hide if ancestor is not instance of <allegiance>'
(or whatever your specific category is)
tekton
@tekton
Apr 25 2018 14:24
still want a way of having only one general for the entire roster
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:24
You already have that.
Check the Skaven catalog.
The 'General' category is a 'one in roster' flag.
You're linking that category to the SSE for the General, and you can set the 'General' SSE as a one in roster, and all children.
tekton
@tekton
Apr 25 2018 14:26
i know it's there, i understand that, and i won't do it then
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:26
If you're having to do a 'Battleline if General is X and Allegiance is Y' then you actually have to create a unique General SE on the specific unit.
Or it doesn't do the validation for battleline correctly.
(I ran into that on the Tomb Kings and Legions of Nagash catalogs)
(Also Herald of Tzeentch ...)
@rweyrauch I can take a look at the Order catalog. It's probably fine for an initial release.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:32
@Mad-Spy Thoughts on whether splitting the Grand Alliance catalogs into their 'sub factions' for Allegiances that only have access to the Grand Alliance abilities/artefacts is an easier solution for handling the Allies?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Apr 25 2018 14:34
What have we done with GA allegiance abilities now? Did we move them to the GST?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:34
GA Alliance abilities and command traits are all in the gst.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Apr 25 2018 14:35
in that case, it not so much of a problem to split them out. It's probably better from a discoverablility stand point.
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 25 2018 14:40
Is there an easy way to find out who can take a specific faction as an ally, i.e. the reverse of the list in the battletome
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Apr 25 2018 14:43
there are various online matrices showing it. there's probably one linked in this chat somewhere/
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:43
The Aos Shorts allies matrix is pretty good. But doesn't actually cover Deepkin yet. https://aosshorts.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/GHB2017-Allies-Table-v2.0.pdf
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 25 2018 14:44
Thought that might be the case, does anyone know of any faction that can take them other than DoK?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:44
And we don't have an FAQ that indicates who gets the Deepkin as allies ... (unless it's in the deepkin book that I missed)
SCE should be able to.
But I wouldn't worry about it from that perspective.
Allies validation outside of the catalog is a 'user managed' piece.
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 25 2018 14:46
Ahh Cool, thanks
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Apr 25 2018 14:47
Deepkin Allies are on p136 of their battletome in the PBF table?
they're normally 1:1 matches
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:47
Skaven aren't 1:1.
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 25 2018 14:48
Neither are Sylvaneth
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:48
Specifically, Pestilens.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Apr 25 2018 14:48
pestilens are special :)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 14:48
Silly 'special little plague-flakes' ...
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 15:44
@rweyrauch Is the organization in the GA Order.cat setup that we could do a split-out for each of the currently embedded order allegiances?
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 25 2018 16:16
@OftKilted Should not be too much of a headache to split out the remaining factions that have allies.
Will look into this this evening. Currently doing the same thing to the remaining factions in the chaos catalog.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 16:44
@rweyrauch Then I'll assign that issue for Chaos over to you.
@mdtm1g14 Given that the Deepkin battalion has explicit requirements for specific SCE units for that battalion it would be easiest to just copy those specific SCE units into the Deepkin catalog, and then hide them if it isn't part of the Battalion.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 16:56
@mdtm1g14 Not SCE ... Sylvaneth ... bleaurgh I think I need another cup of coffee.
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 25 2018 17:19
I was going to ask that assuming that they are all done, would those units still count for their battlefield role?
Also @OftKilted having never used allies before are there any units that can't be used in an allied force (I'm assuming battalions can't)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 17:30
Technically ... if you can fit into the points requirements, you can be used as an ally.
So, for a 1000 point list that would be 200 points of allies, 400 points max of allies for a 2000 point list and 500 points of allies in a 2500 point list.
Battleline do not count as battleline when taken as allies.
Which is why you have to have two separate RSE's for battleline. One, when they meet their battleline condition, one when they don't.
Leaders can always be leaders (they just can't be the General of the roster), and Behemoths and Artillery are also applicable.
Battleline have a 'Battleline' and an 'Other' state (for when they can't meet the Battleline, either because they're being used as Allies, or they don't have the appropriate Allegiance requirements (and/or general).
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Apr 25 2018 19:42
The way it's set up at the minute, it's not possible to take a Battleline unit at all in an Allies detachment, so they don't actually need to be explicitly hidden. You just need to hide the non-Battleline version if the detachment type is NOT Allies.
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 25 2018 19:54
I'm getting an error of "Link must have a target that exists" but double clicking on the link wont show me the issue, and I cant seem to find any broken links, is there any other way of solving this (I have just brought in the sylvaneth units to the Idoneth and fixed all other issues I found)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Apr 25 2018 19:57
Category link issue
You've deleted a category before removing all the links to it. BS won't jump to them at present.
or rather in your case, imported a unit which has a category which doesn't exist in your catalogue
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 25 2018 19:58
Ahh that makes sense, The units would have had their keywords which I didn't, thanks @Mad-Spy :)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Apr 25 2018 19:59
easiest solution is to remove any local categories from the unit you're going to import before you move it. (DON'T SAVE THE SOURCE FILE!!!) :)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 25 2018 19:59
^^ What @Mad-Spy said ...
@mdtm1g14 You're likely seeing the issue for the Sylvaneth units.
You don't have any of the 'non-standard' sylvaneth units in the categories.
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 25 2018 20:06
Cool all sorted now, hopefully very nearly done with it now