These are chat archives for BSData/warhammer-age-of-sigmar

27th
Apr 2018
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 27 2018 12:24
@OftKilted I see that you started the Order split. Thanks. I'll start splitting out Ironweld Arsenal and Devoted of Sigmar next.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 13:05
@rweyrauch I'm seeing a whole bunch of 'oddities' in the catalog.
None of the weapons so far have SE's associated with them.
We're 'overdoing' the Artefacts and Command Trait linking.
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 27 2018 13:19
@OftKilted By default, none of the weapons in Order have SE's associated with them. The exceptions are when there are weapon options. What is the use of the SE in the case where there is no weapon selection?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 27 2018 13:20
oh nevermind
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 13:21
It was part of the implementation guidelines. @Mad-Spy What was the logic behind putting the weapons as SE's under a unit?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 27 2018 13:21
no i know this answer
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 13:21
@alphalas Care to help?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 27 2018 13:21
it’s so the Weapon displays in the roster editor and the output
if there’s no SE, you can’t glance at the unit and see what i’t armed with.
also if you turn off profiles
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 27 2018 13:23
For units with only a single weapon selection what's the point?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 27 2018 13:23
because if it’s not a SE, and you turn off profiles in the display, it looks like the unit has no weapons.
SEs should always be default
SEGs for options, SEs for single
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 13:25
@alphalas Is that typical for the 40K cats as well?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 27 2018 13:25
Yes.
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 27 2018 13:26
Hmm. I've been using the Order catalogs for weeks to build lists. How do turn off 'profiles in the display'?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 13:26
@rweyrauch It isn't 'the end of the world' if they don't have them.
But it is our best practice
Under 'view roster' it's a radio button
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 27 2018 13:28
Does the mobile version have the same option?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 27 2018 13:32
yes
Screen Shot 2018-04-27 at 9.32.16 AM.png
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 27 2018 13:32
I see.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 27 2018 13:32
^example of what output looks like with no SEs
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 27 2018 13:33
I've always used the 'default' inline setting.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 27 2018 13:34
well especially in 40k we’ve been encouraging the minimal options settings, especially for tournaments/events
because handing your opponent a 5 page list of your army is… sub-optimal
Consider it a form of… idiot proofing.
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 27 2018 13:36
Got it. Well then, none of the Order catalogs have been following this guideline. I guess Order is not quite in order just yet.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 13:41
@rweyrauch LoL. It’s not the end of the world for an initial release
Order is not in order ... snerk that comment made my morning ...
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 13:47
In any case, I updated the gst to resolve the validation issue for Artefacts. Because they weren’t categorized correctly additional logic had been added to work around the issue.
And the most recent fix for the desktop version appears to have fixed a validation issue as well
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 14:03
@alphalas Which is why having spells as SEs is also useful ...
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 27 2018 14:11
indeed
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 14:51
Mmmm I can see it now ... “the great add SEs to profiles cleanup of 2018” ...
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 27 2018 16:32
@OftKilted I'll continue splitting up the Order catalog this evening. I'll also add weapon SEs to the new catalogs as I go.
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 17:49
I've got one more change to push for the idoneth and then j think they are pretty much done
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 18:15
@mdtm1g14 Nice!
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 18:53
@rweyrauch I’m working on them as well and adding SEs as I go.
(And checking them off in the ticket)
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Apr 27 2018 18:54
@OftKilted Excellent. I will continue to do the same.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 18:54
I haven’t been deleting any more from the order.cat as were both working in it
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 19:27
@mdtm1g14 Enclaves aren't required according to the Battletome. (Folks probably want to choose one ... but they aren't required according to Rules as Written.)
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 19:29
Ahh, I didn't realise that, I'm used to 40k where I haven't seen a list without one since they appeared, I'll adjust that
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 19:30
It's apparently a "Can Organize" and then the silly 'If you do you should be painting your models in color scheme X'
Apparently that is also not a allegiance thing ... it's separate from the Allegiance.
So, in theory one could have 'Allegiance: Order' and 'Enclave: <choose random enclave>'
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 19:37
The reason I have put it in the Allegiance section is that it always refers to "your army can be from one of the major enclaves" which I assumed meant it needed to be Allegiance: Idoneth
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 19:42
Yeah ... it does appear to be not attached to that.
Apparently every Idoneth army gets the 'Enclaves Rules' and you can specifically choose one set of Rules ...
Even if you don't paint the colors (per the 'Endless Seas' paragraph on p.85 ..)
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 19:45
Yeah that's the standard in 40k now, but list building is still very different
Shall I make it available to all Allegiances then?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 19:45
It was a HUGE discussion when they started doing that verbiage with Kharadron Overlords and the Firestorm.
I'd actually consider making it a 'something else'
(i.e. not an allegiance at all)
Something like an SSEG with 'Enclave Rules Used By Idoneth Force'
And an RSE with no primary button chosen.
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 19:48
Cool I will do that then
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 19:49
Hmm ... I wonder how Kharadron did it ...
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 19:50
In the copy I have its the same as I did it
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 19:53
Interestingly enough ... Kharadron Skyports are specifically listed under the Allegiance Abilities for Kharadron.
Well ... that's interesting ...
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 19:58
So is it best to change or leave how it is?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 19:58
@mdtm1g14 lol It almost appears as though the Enclaves are a 'form of Allegiance' because they're using a reference to 'Ionrach Army'
Wow ... yeah ... for the moment, I think it's probably better to leave it how you did it.
That seriously needs a FAQ ... facepalm
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 20:00
Still 0-1 though rather than forced?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 20:00
Yeah ... 0-1
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 20:01
Done
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 20:03
Given that the Enclaves are actually 'Enclave Rules' ... (and to avoid folks getting grumpy) How about changing 'Enclave Rules'
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 20:10
So ... you can have 'two etheric terrain features' ...
Is that 'two gloom tide shipwrecks' ... which could be 4 halves?
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 20:13
Yep, there has been lots of discussion about it, basically you can have one or two features and the ship is currently the only one available, however the ship can either count as 1 feature (putting the two halves down together to form one ship) or 2 (putting the halves seperately) therefore you can have either:
1) 2 whole ships
2) 1 whole ship and 1 half
3) 2 half ships
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 20:14
Given that's the current result of the discussion. Perhaps it might be better to just put a 'Checkbox' for 'Use Etheric Vortex Terrain' rather than the current implementation which says you can have have two whole ships ... which someone might then try to break into two halves.
And end up with 4.
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 20:15
Will do, shall I put my detailed description in?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 20:16
You mean the whole 3 options?
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 20:17
Yeah
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 20:17
Nope.
The SSEG for 'Use Etheric Vortex' then an SE for 'Etheric Vortex' with a Profile for 'Gloomtide Shipwreck'
If they give us additional 'Etheric Vortex terrain rules' cool ...
or an SE for
'Etheric Vortex: Gloomtide Shipwreck'?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 20:23
At least that insanity is an Allegiance Ability ...
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 20:27
Is there a specific way to add a description to an SE (to add the statement about how it is deployed)?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 20:28
IMO, I wouldn't add that
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 20:28
Its just that otherwise there is nothing on the roster saying that it can be deployed as a single ship or two halves
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 20:28
That's a ruling, and unless there is an official FAQ on it ... we probably want to leave well enough alone.
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 20:29
I mean the bit from the description on the warscroll
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 20:31
Lets see what the Scenery for wildwood says, and how we we did those :)
So, Sylvaneth Wyldwood listed it as a 'Battle Trait'
But didn't list 'deployment' rules.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 20:37
And the 'Feculent Gnarlmaw' didn't list deployment rules either.
We're not attempting to remove the requirement to have the Battletome, we're a tool to make stuff easier. I wouldn't put in the description.
I recommend changing the 'Leviadon Wounds' profile type to 'Leviadon Wounds Suffered' profile type.
You also don't need to put the 'Wound Track' into a separate SE for the Leviadon.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 20:43
The Akhelian Leviadon Razorshell Harpoon launcher seems to be missing the weapon profile?
@mdtm1g14 Yep, in your most recent push the Razorshell Harpoon Launcher has no weapon profile.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 20:52
@mdtm1g14 Why do you have breakdowns for 'General - Akhelian' and 'General - Isharann'?
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 20:55
I was copying what was on something else for the wounds tracker, it should be on there now
The harpoon launcher (I haven't pushed yet though) I have put in categories for that as there is also some debate around RaW and RaI for the number of shots
The generals entries seemed the easiest way for multiple heroes to allow the same unit to be battle line
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 20:56
Wow ... this Battletome is a hot mess. LOL
tekton
@tekton
Apr 27 2018 20:57
I just want flying turtles...
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 20:58
I'd put the RAW of 3 attacks. and list it as 'Razorshell Harpoon Launcher'
And let the players roll it out.
Not the 'Potential RAW of 6 attacks'
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 20:59
I have put 3 in for now but added the extra profile for ease of update pending FAQ
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 20:59
I wouldn't touch an additional profile with a 10 foot pole.
You're missing the secondary requirement for the optional battle line for Namarti Reavers/Akhelian Ishalen Guard/Akhelian Morrsarr Guard
You've missed the requirement that they have to have the deepkin allegiance
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 21:07
For the 'raw v.s. rai' for the Harpoon launcher/launchers I'd leave it at exactly what the weapon profile says, until we get a faq that says otherwise. that is one hot mess.
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 21:29
It should be coved in the Roses right?
*RSEs
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 21:45
what do you mean?
commit what you're working on, and I'll take a quick peek
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 21:48
Just checking is there any reason to take order allegiance if they are not an allied force?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 21:54
Yes there is.
If they're allied, they have no allegiance.
But one could make a 'Grand Alliance: Order' soup force.
Personally ... I wouldn't. (But .... someone might.)
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 21:55
Is that not being done with the Order cat?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 21:55
That is entirely different.
So, lets say I want to make an army.
And I have models that look cool to me.
And I want to play them, because 'Giant Flying turtles'
But I don't want to have a silly fish-elf leader....
And these horrible blind fish-elf troops ...
And I want a giant Magmadroth ... with a whole pile of humans as my troops ... led by a SCE on an awesome star drake.
... Who are we to question why someone would play such a list.
It's also possible that I don't want to use the faction specific command traits, or artifacts.
../;./.
So, a force can choose to take either their faction's allegiance traits or the allegiance traits of their grand allegiance.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 22:00
(It's a parent faction -> child faction)
mdtm1g14
@mdtm1g14
Apr 27 2018 22:04
Ahh I thought there was a seperate file for grand alliance, didnt spot that it was being done by taking multiple forces.
Can battalions be taken in a grand alliance?
Also as I had it open, are kharadrons limiting artifacts correctly?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 22:48
One can take battalions in a Grand Alliance Army. And I’d have to check to see if they’re limiting correctly.
I ran into the issue that Artefacts weren’t set as CATEGORY Artefact ... so they may not be being done correctly
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 22:55
It looks like Kharadron Overlords may have issues.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 27 2018 23:15
@rweyrauch @FreylisUK do either of you know what the logic was on the Allegiance Traits for KO? It looks like it is allowing both GA:O and KO Allegiance Abilities no matter what is selected for Allegiance?