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    Cylogenesis opened #1068
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
so you can't have a "Nurgle" allegiance army with Pestilens allies. You can however, have a Pestilens army with "Nurgle" allies.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
So ... there is a Nurgle Allies.
Pestilins have the Nurgle keyword. The Maggotkin books refer to “Nurgle Allies” not “Maggotkin Allies”
OftKilted
@OftKilted
While Pestillins has their own Allegiance, they also qualify for “Nurgle Allegiance”
So, you’re not actually including Pestillins as Allies ... they’re part of the main “Nurgle” force.
(Like a whole bunch of the Tamurkhan’s Horde units. Ignoring Sayl and Nightmaw)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
This is mainly an issue in Chaos ... but the new Death battletome LoN has a similar issue
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Most of the Pestillins units don’t have good synergy (and can’t be part of any Of the Maggotkin Warscroll Battalions ... but amusingly the Verminlord Corruptor has The Nurgle, Daemon, and Hero Keywords ... and could be put into at least the “Munificent Wanderers” battalion.
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
@/all what's the plan? Are separate catalogs the new plan? I agree that separate catalogs are an improvement. How close are we to releasing a set of useful (all be it not complete ) monolithic set of catalogs?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Death has all the points in... and LoN/TK/VC all have profiles entered
FEC still needs profile entry. Then I’m digging into Artefacts/Spell Lores
But FEC is my next point for the monolithic keywords
Whee autocorrect. Catalog
I know that Chaos and Order are not in a solid state.
They’re officially the largest of the catalogs.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Chaos is maybe 60% done? Order probably less so.
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
Order is missing a lot of validation, but most of the units have had their points and abilities updated. Is it worth it to continue with the current plan and release something or do we start again with the multi-catalog approach?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
I still have Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle and all the FW stuff to do. Skaven have profiles but not proper RSEs. 89 units are ready to go, 147 are in various states of disrepair.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Before we go all-in on a new concept, I think we should do a quick prototype with actual data.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
I'm just going to knock something up now.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Chaos and death are the two that I could see causing issues. And my question is still on the What groupings do we want to do?
tekton
@tekton
Destruction is probably 80% or so at this point
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
A prototype that exercises all of the ideas, problems and solutions is very wise.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
So ... identified issues:
Battalions that cross catalogs (Sylvaneth & SCE battalions ... or mixed city battalions)
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
It may be best to finish up with the current plan and release something that is at least more useful than what currently exists.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Units that can fit into multiple (potential) catalogs. Or can be cross compatible between allegiance due to keywords
Rick Weyrauch
@rweyrauch
0
Simon Barlow
@FreylisUK
@rweyrauch I'll finish up the KO tonight and then move onto the DoK. Based on the discussion today I'll enter the Battalions as we are currently doing them, i.e. as purely informational with no validation.
I feel like I've opened up a massive can of worms with my musings!
OftKilted
@OftKilted
@Cupropituvanso How are Sylvaneth coming?
So, Allegiance and Artefacts/Spell lists are being painful ... based on the current proposed solution for keyword basing ... due to keywords being assigned to units that don’t have them normally ...
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
If only keyword visibility actually worked. :(
Simon Barlow
@FreylisUK
I also agree that it might be best to finish up with the current plan given we're most of the way there. If we can get the data up-to-date and include validation at least on a per-unit level, the file will at least be useful for everyone. It also buys us some more time to work out the best way of implementing Battalions.
Also, I wonder if, from an end-user's point of view at least, it might make the most sense to only split out factions into separate catalogues if they have a Battletome? There's nothing stopping us keeping the Grand Alliance catalogues either, which would at least provides a sensible home for the minor factions that don't have their own books.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
it's not so bad for Destruction and Order, because your allegiances are mostly nicely self-contained.
Simon Barlow
@FreylisUK
That's effectively what you have with the 40K files; Death Guard and Thousand Sons have their own books so are their own catalogues, but if I want to play World Eaters or Emperor's Children I have to use the Chaos Space Marines catalogue.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
They are their own catalogues because they significantly diverge in unit selection, not really because they have their own books.
they had separate catalogues while they were still all from the Index.
but I was planning to leave the minor factions in a big catalogue as suggested.
I said earlier, there are 33 allegiances for Chaos in Azyr.
but many of them are contained within others.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
True enough... and others have overlap. (Eg. Pestillins, Nurgle, Skaven)
Though, a Nurgle Army with Pestillins units isn’t optimal.
Simon Barlow
@FreylisUK
Ah, I didn't realise that they were split even when we only had Indexes.
I'll stop muddying the waters and crack on with the KO and DoK :smile:
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
@OftKilted, what's more strange is that in Azyr, Pestilens units in Nurgle armies can only take CHAOS artefacts and command traits, but all the "true" Nurgle units can take the new ones!
OftKilted
@OftKilted
So ... not entirely unusual
The only unit that I can see that could take the Nurgle Artefacts would be the Verminlord corruptor
Nothing else has the Nurgle Mortal or Nurgle Daemon Keywords in Pestillins
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Yes, I suppose so!
OftKilted
@OftKilted
And the Maggotkin/Nurgle Book has those as the keywords.