These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

23rd
Feb 2016
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 13:35
THe problems people are having are to do with the formaitions i will work on it, it was a bigger job than i initialy thought hence the delay.
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 14:26
Hey guys, would Fenrisian wolves be considered an upgrade for a lone wolf? this is important as upgrades are free in the formation ironwolves?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 14:30
Is there a document that indicates anywhere that a fenrisian wolf is an upgrade to one?
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 14:30
I dont know :P
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 14:31
I know (as an example) that the Kytan daemon engine can be taken in place of a lord of skulls
(Whee Slaughter Cult with 9 Kytan Daemon engines on the table ...)
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 14:32
it just says "OPTIONS:
May take up to two Fenrisian Wolves8 pts/model"
Its the "may take" that gets me like its not "be accompanied by" and there is only one model untill this point.
A lone wolf "may take" two fenrisian wolves.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 14:35
So, the fenrisian wolves are like additional "unit choices" so it becomes a unit with three models. Not just one lone wolf model
Is that the same options section that has wargear and upgrades?
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 14:36
Logically yes, and yes.
blob
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 14:36
... Are upgrades listed in a sub section of the options section?
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 14:37
Im wondering how it works for drones on Ic's and riptides
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 14:37
As much as I hate free crap and space puppies ... I'm goi g to have to say ... Probably
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 14:38
Yeah RAW im leaning to yes, i was wondering if someone has seen something contrary
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 14:39
Given that I'm just a hater. I vote no. They probably have fleas. And that would mean that were now dealing with bugs.
:-p
Raw. It looks like they should be free based on the walk through here.
If we don't, someone will complain.
Though, they aren't on the model. And they're a separate squad member
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 14:41
Hmm intrested on @efalsken 's opinion working on tau theres probably some crossover.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 14:41
It increases squad size... And they're part of the unit.
It's like "taking additional space marines" in a squad.
Do the wolves have upgrade options?
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 14:43
No.
And i agree logically it makes no sense to me, but this is GW.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 14:45
Yeah, I'm curious about how drones are treated from a verbiage perspective.
The wolves can't run independently, as they are part of a now 3 model squad.
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 14:47
Yeah, Maybe its just me harking back to the old style familiars.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 14:52
RAW I can see the argument for giving them as "free upgrades" same verbiage as the weapons upgrades.
But they're not listed as "wargear" and they're not replacing or modifying wargear.
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 14:53
Yep
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 14:55
So the "Lone Wolf" unit has one Lone Wolf, and can take up to two "Fenrissian Wolves" as part of the unit.
RAW the "may take" verbiage is only used in "upgrades" that I can find. (C:CSM, Daemonkin, Sisters of battle) adding additional models is different verbiage
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 15:00
This was my initial point it does not use the correct phrase AFAIK for them to not be upgrades.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 15:01
So free it is. Based on RAW
Unless we see a daw otherwise?
FAQ
Document that in the fix, and indicate in the ticket that is the reasoning behind the upgrade?
Hey, is there an easy way to hide/show options based on whether an HQ has a specific option taken?
I.e. Can I use the direct id of the choice as a validation?
(I'm working with Wh40k:PtG and choices change depending on whether the champion chooses to have a mark of chaos or not.)
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 15:12
I believe so. test it.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 15:15
I've been trying to work around the issue and it just occurred to me that I might be able to use the direct ID for the selection... (it turns out that champions don't have to take the mark of chaos from their patron god ... and that
Gives them additional follower choices.
So I'll have to check it tonite. :-)
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 15:17
Thought they needed to match the mark and the patron?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 15:20
So, if they have a mark it had to match their patron.
But if they don't have a mark, then they get to roll on the expanded follower table.
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 15:22
Ahh i see.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 15:22

“* If your Champion has a Mark of Chaos, replace all these results with thefollowers shown in the table at the top of the following page (Champion Mark of Chaos Table)”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Path to Glory

So, if they don't have the mark of their patron, you can run nurgle patron and have Noise Marines as a choice. Or Khorne Berzerkers or Thousand Sons
And the choice for the mark is then unit based for those units that can take it
(Based on the examples provided)
My only question would be, can the individual units have a different patron than the patron of the warband. Or are they limited like the champion?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 15:27
I'd think that would be they have the same limitation as the champion. And only the "explicit choices" would be able to have the alternate mark.
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 15:31
Im going to have a field day with this:
blob
The main problem being the lone wolves.
but i have an idea
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 15:33
Easy solution. You can't take lone wolves. Problem solved
cough
penguin20000
@penguin20000
Feb 23 2016 15:33
Urgh
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 15:33
THe whole iron wolves thing is a pain in the arse.
Point 1: Upgrades and wargear is free.
Point 2: "stupid dedicated transport requirements riles"
rules*
For the points costs i have had to re-create every unit and upgrade in the formation just for this formation, the other one will need some pain in the arse validations.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 15:38
I'll support you in your "I hate Space Puppies" thirst Kickstarter. ;-)
T-shirt
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 15:40
Haha thats an idea.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 15:41
"Russ was a Jerk"
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 15:48
LOL
Well. It's one way to get more sales of specific units to require or make them an option in an army
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 15:58
Im looking at you tomb blades.
I cant see any reason to not use this formation its ridiculous
Free upgrades with units that can all take 40pts of upgrades per model.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 15:59
Tomb blades are actually pretty awesome. I'm surprised to not see more on the table in general.
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 15:59
They were less awesome in the previous dex
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 16:00
Which gets rather crazy. You have one group that plays at 1600 points and with free upgrades group b is playing at 2000 points
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 16:05
wolf guard can have bikes or jump packs and two weapons which range from melta guns to power fists. some costing around 30pts per weapon, amd this is a squad of ten.
cartag
@cartag
Feb 23 2016 16:50
@hisop for points being free, this will be WAY easier in 1.16. You can set it up to check if Ancestor is instance of formation. I have Daemons set up to require a Brass Throne on the Herald of Khorne only if it is part of the Gorethunder Battery formation. Won't help right now in 1.15, unless we're willing to just tell people it'll be in the next released version due to the amount of work required for it
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 16:52
I would like to, but this is being requested multiple times a day an 1.16 could be a while, i'm half way through i can re-do for later. lets just say its taken a while. you should see the amount of validation wolf guard terminators have and due to a bug that wont copy paste :P
cartag
@cartag
Feb 23 2016 16:53
oh I'd believe it
everything from the daemon book had to be copied over, CSM book long ago also
I just made the KDK one from scratch vs deal with validation errors
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 16:54
I can believe it i moved one unit and had 38 errors.
Thinking of using a global count for "transport spaces" for the above dedicated transport requirement.
cartag
@cartag
Feb 23 2016 17:17
TIL SW players are really fucking demanding.
True_Hisop
@hisop
Feb 23 2016 17:18
Yeah they were the same last time i think, its one of those "tournament armies" that loads of people only use when the book comes out for 6 months.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Feb 23 2016 17:19
Well. At least we're getting feedback. So at least we know hat the files are being used