These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

5th
Apr 2016
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 00:01
sigh "Chaos Knights may take Legacies of Ruin." ITC Ruling ... https://docs.google.com/document/d/16nmBS2KZglu9JaGttpX_9lOYhYO2PQM47N8HvrsAA60/edit
Who even comes up with these articles?
cartag
@cartag
Apr 05 2016 03:55
They're partially right. They should also include that if the Knight takes one of the Daemon Knight rules that they can't take them since it makes them daemon engines.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 05 2016 15:33
Not a new codex ... but that's a decent start to helping out csm.
Free Mark of Khorn is always nice, and Run+Charge Khorn Doggies is pretty cool too
cartag
@cartag
Apr 05 2016 15:34
Some of these are going to be a headache to code before 1.16 is officially out
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 15:34
Go Heresy! cough
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 05 2016 15:34
Yea, I imagine it won't be fun :/
cartag
@cartag
Apr 05 2016 15:35
CSM book doesn't have dogs, the hounds it mentions are the infantry and bikes
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 05 2016 15:35
Oh
cartag
@cartag
Apr 05 2016 15:35
there was a Hounds of Huron formation for apoc, it had a shitload of bikers
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 05 2016 15:36
That is just as nice ... Run and charge on bikes? Yes please.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 15:36
@Jonskichov Just needs to get that 1.16 release out for us 😃
cartag
@cartag
Apr 05 2016 15:36
I guess if you put the chaos lord on a bike, and then put him in a unit of dogs... can IC's join battle brother units?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 05 2016 15:36
With the added bonus of Hammer of Wrath
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 15:37
@cartag yes
cartag
@cartag
Apr 05 2016 15:37
That just became more awesome
gorepack + hounds of huron. Dogs with HoW, everything on CSM side can run and charge, that is frightening
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 15:37
It has a flavor that sounds like the KDK gorepack
cartag
@cartag
Apr 05 2016 15:39
only downside being that they don't have BftBG
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 05 2016 15:40
Is it just me or is getting 2 boons for that first formation just awesome
cartag
@cartag
Apr 05 2016 15:40
That is cool
Ivan Milanov
@SuperPranx
Apr 05 2016 16:14
The bikes can't Run, they can Turbo-boost, so if you want the Run&Charge you're gonna have to do it only with units that can Run.
cartag
@cartag
Apr 05 2016 16:16
good point
Is it bad I already have all the formations blocked out in BS and just need to finesse the finer points of them?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 16:18
Juggernaut
cartag
@cartag
Apr 05 2016 16:19
A Juggy lord would run, same with Jerald (juggy Herald)
cartag
@cartag
Apr 05 2016 16:43
That Hounds formation isn't being fully implemented until 1.16, there's no way I'm making a separate copy of all of those units that has a mandatory 0 point Mark of Khorne.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 16:50
Hooray GeeDub?
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Apr 05 2016 17:26
So, not a Daemons player, but my SO is considering making them her next army. I notice that most of the rules, page numbers, and some of the stats are simply blank.
Is this kind of just where things sit with this file?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 17:27
Issue is that page numbers are useless in epubs
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Apr 05 2016 17:27
Most other files I use (Eldar, HH, Blood Angels, Space Marines) do honor them... why is the Daemons file an exception?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 17:28
What kind of "stats" or "rules" are blank? Are these Codex: Cd rules ... Or BrB rules?
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Apr 05 2016 17:28
Both.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 17:29
example?
(for ePubs, page numbers change depending on what size I have the text on my device)
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Apr 05 2016 17:35
Points for Cor'bax Utterblight. Slime Trail undefined (no page, no rule text).
Giant Chaos Spawn. Mutated Beyond Sanity, Random Attacks: no rule text, no page number.
That's two quick examples.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 17:36
Corax Utterblight is from FW, rules in IA:13
Both are from FW
Cor'bax (whee autocorrect)
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Apr 05 2016 17:36
Point being?
Slime Trail appears to be a C:CD rule that is neither defined nor page-number'd.
I see that to be the case fro C:CD entries.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 17:41
Each of these catalogs are created by volunteers. The C:cd doesn't have an ePub version. they're designed to be used in addition to the Codexes provided by GW
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Apr 05 2016 17:42
I've contributed to files in the past and currently contribute to the HH files; I'm not just complaining because I expect perfect work from volunteers. I'm really trying to feel out if there is resistance to having complete rule text in this file, as I will not bother with pull requests if someone is just going to clobber my work for containing complete rules.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 17:43
Are
I'd recommend coordinating with the current catalog maintainer @cartag
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Apr 05 2016 17:44
So, your point about no pages in an ePub version seems pretty spurious if there isn't even one for this file. The page numbers are relevant precisely because they're to be used with the printed codices.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 17:44
There has been "resistance" to having the full rules in the catalogs. Some individuals have done so for their supported catalogs.
(And there are digital versions of said catalogs) (though not IA:13)
I don't know which was used.
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Apr 05 2016 17:46
Even where there aren't, it is relatively trivial to type up or scan'n'OCR the relevant text.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 17:46
And the digital release has different page numbers than paper.
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Apr 05 2016 17:46
Oh, they have page numbers?
I didn't know that.
I suppose the digital page numbers may be dynamic.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 17:47
The page numbers are different for the gamers edition and he standard edition as well
And the "rules appendix" in those is linked into the interactive edition. (They're pretty cool tbh)
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Apr 05 2016 17:48
I would think the paper version (where it exist) would have to be the source of record.
exists, even.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 17:49
Nope. The paper edition doesn't include the FAQs. The digital editions do.
In the daemon boxed set it was a mini-dex additional softcover. Though the physical copy cover was a cool glossy black with the chaos symbol
They weren't combined. And the paper copy didn't have the FAQ updates in it
So, when they release a new FAQ for a codex they update the digital edition to include the newly faq'd update. The paper copy never changes. (Even the new daemon box set release didn't get any FAQ updates) and the scions of the Storm update is in a different book
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 17:54
Sorry, scions of the warp
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Apr 05 2016 17:55
Scions of the Storm? I haven't even heard of that.
Something from a Supplement?
Page numbers can be listed by book.
I'm just saying, this file is uniquely sparse.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 17:56
It was the sub component of the updated space wolves wulfen release
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Apr 05 2016 17:56
Even the Ork (file while not having some rules text) has page numbers for everything.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 17:56
Let's ask @cartag if he would have an issue with us updating the rules section of the c:cd catalog
Created by different people
Orks are less chaotic ;-)
And there isn't a "scions of the warp edition" for the daemons codex. So, you're stuck having to get multiple books (for the most part).
Though there is a "wulfen edition" for space wolves
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Apr 05 2016 17:59
Orks have Codex, IA8, IA:A2nd, and Ghaz.
Seems Daemons have Codex, Scions of the Warp, and IA13?
So, less sources?
Another issue with the lack of page numbers is not listing source. Some events limit the number of "sources" of rules per army. This file makes that a real pain to calculate based on a printed army list.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 18:01
Technically, they also have stuff from the wulfen book, as that was where scions of the warp was released) and forge world. Along with siege of vraks.
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Apr 05 2016 18:01
I counted Scions of the Warp as a source.
Does Siege of Vraks have things that are not in IA:Apoc2e?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 18:03
There are a number of FW sources. I don't know them by heart.
I believe so.
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Apr 05 2016 18:04
IA:A2e collected most in print at the time (rules only); IA13 updated the rest. Vraks at this point is quite old, indeed. I don't know the list well enough to say, but I question if there is anything that hasn't been updated/repeated in IA:A2e or IA13?
Looks like I don't know what I'm on about and there is a Vraks2e that is newer than IA13 and IA:A2e/
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 18:10
Chaos is complicated. And it is BB with all the other chaos forces. Then you have Daemonkin, which has both daemons and CSM. Same source.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 05 2016 20:03

@capitaladot I doubt anyone will have anything against such contribution. Page numbers IMO are, as you said, only useful for paper editions. So I'd say go ahead if you have spare time.

@OftKilted Per your point on FAQs(Erratas/Amendments) we assume that the FAQ works as written, ie. you substitute the text written on paper on-the-fly. I doubt FAQs change page numbers. Another thing is that there may be many sources (which happens more and more often) and that is an actual issue - a good assumption is to write the source where it had the unit/rule/stat first published. Let's call the other ones reprints ;)

OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 20:05
I blame Tzeentch.
He keeps changing things.
cartag
@cartag
Apr 05 2016 23:24
C:CD hasn't gotten a full redo from me. It hasn't gotten nearly the attention of CSM or KDK largely because I haven't played daemons and I don't often see things missing in it.
The new Vraks book combines the original three into one tome.
As for page numbers, they can vary depending on what it's being read on.
I've not had a good day today, so I'll look at this all later. I'm sorry.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 23:25
@cartag so, no real issues with filling in the missing rules?
If that's the case I can dig into it, or @capitaladot and I can take care of it
cartag
@cartag
Apr 05 2016 23:26
The only thing I've touched with the daemon file is to include the new stuff and move them all to shared entries. It was created by somebody else, and the rules weren't in it when I took over.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 23:26
Then we'll get the rules put in. :-)
cartag
@cartag
Apr 05 2016 23:27
I'll work on it tonight. I overexerted myself today so am going to hermit in my basement and not be social for a bit
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 05 2016 23:27
I'll open up a ticket and assign it to me or @capitaladot and we'll get those out of the way
If you want to then cool :-)
I'll still open the ticket and assign it to you then. Let us know if you would want any help
And I'll paint my Khorne Berzerkers