These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

19th
Apr 2016
arabviking
@arabviking
Apr 19 2016 21:29
Lias Issodon
Which catalague is he available? FW chapter master for Raptors.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 21:30
That would be Horus Heresy?
30k/40k aren't combined. So if he was in a Horus heresy book that would likely be your data source.
arabviking
@arabviking
Apr 19 2016 21:35
ahh, he is 30k, my bad.
But it doesn't matter, I will just add total point for army list, minus 175 points
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 21:35
As he's 30k, you'll want to use the 30k lists.
You can't officially use 40k formations in a "time of darkness" list
30k has their own set of CAD style lists.
unless he has actual "40k stats" (i.e. You can play 30k against 40k, but the 30k player is limited to 30k rules)
arabviking
@arabviking
Apr 19 2016 21:42
More tourneys I attend, aswell as my own, allows 30k stuff in 40k :)
most*
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 21:47
If it doesn't have a 40k approved stamp then they're being generous.
arabviking
@arabviking
Apr 19 2016 21:48
Why? That is the tournament scene in Norway. We want people to field what they own.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 21:51
if that's your meta then I'm not going to tell you not to. Merely that it's atypical as scoring and army rules are different. (No ATSKNF as an example)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 22:00
Check the Space Marines codex under the forge world section.
That's not Horus heresy. It's Badab Wars. (Imperial Armor)
arabviking
@arabviking
Apr 19 2016 22:01
My bad. :)
Ivan Milanov
@SuperPranx
Apr 19 2016 22:29
Guys does @ddarz even read these discussions and our requests for him to use better titles on his commits?
I might not have the time to sit down and work on the files, but I do check what's changed from time to time, mainly through the commit comments.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 22:39
@SuperPranx likelihood is low
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:40
Better than you think
Sorry mate, I didn't see any of those messages
How can I help?
Ivan Milanov
@SuperPranx
Apr 19 2016 22:40
:)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 22:40
Works every time @SuperPranx
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 22:41
Wouldn't ya know it, tag someone and they show up :smile:
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:41
YOU HAVE SUMMONED ME!!!
I GRANT THEE 3 WISHES
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 22:41
More markerlight fun.
More Necron live forever.
and hey, how about a CSM codex.
I'm generous.
Ivan Milanov
@SuperPranx
Apr 19 2016 22:42
Could you please put more info in the commit titles? They're a bit non-informative if you just say Fix for XXXX :)
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:42
Sorry, I am not terribly well versed in gitter, don't those link to the actual issue?
but yes, I will make sure to be more descriptive :)
sorry for the trouble guys
Ivan Milanov
@SuperPranx
Apr 19 2016 22:45
They do, but when you look at the commit it's a bit better if the title says something about what you did. Like, "[Codex name] - Fixed [unit] and [something]"
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:45
Good point, I'll do it from now on!
While I am here, anyone got any feedback about the Imperial Space marine? I've added him to Tacs, Devs and Assault squads. I'm on the fence about Veteran squads (implying Veteran Space Marines) and I have had a suggestion to allow him in Crusader squads.
Ivan Milanov
@SuperPranx
Apr 19 2016 22:46
Helps to get a rough overview without going to the issue. You can also see if it's something you are interested to see in detail.
Great! Thanks :)
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:46
No worries, sorry again
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 22:47
nope. If it doesn't say "space marine" the answer is "no" just like the song.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:48
Works for me! Ok with the assault squad? You can buy him a jump pack and everyhting :clap:
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 22:48
No
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 22:48
He can't take any upgrades besides on his data sheet
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 22:49
No rules that I've seen to allow him to buy them
I mean .... Technically if the assault marines are a "space marine" they just loose all the benefits of jump packs while he's alive
As he cant be upgraded
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 22:50
I mean, they could still move 12 I guess ...
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:50
Arguments in favour state that as the jump pack entry says "any model in the unit can buy a jump pack..." and he is in the unit
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 22:51
he can't buy upgrades as he would be a replacement after unit purchase. So the unit is already purchased and he is then swapped out
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 22:51
^
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 22:51
It's an order thing
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:51
I added the option as assault marines are clear "Space marines" but I wanted to check with you guys
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 22:51
Yea, I'd say no upgrades, but yes he could replace an assault marine
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:51
Is there a stated order of operations?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 22:51
not that you ever would want to ... but he could.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 22:52
"one space marine can be replaced at no cost"
Ergo the space marine has to already be in existence
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 22:52
Ehhh,
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:53
well, you start with 4 plus a sarge
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 22:53
they also have to be in existance to buy upgrades oft.
I'm with you, but that's not the argument to use I don't think ...
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:53
yeah
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 22:53
Win!
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 22:53
The argument i'd use in any TO sort of role is
The assault marine data sheet is for assault marines
or sergeants.
you'd use any upgrades from the 30th datasheet for that model.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 22:54
the model is a one for one replacement with no listed upgraded. And so since they're assault marines they're not "Space Marines" type.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:54
are they not?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 22:55
Do they list as "Space Marine" in the model name?
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:55
got the codex here, they are of type "Space Marine"
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 22:56
So, when you buy assault marines, are you purchasing "space marines" or "assault marines"
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:56
space marines
then under the Options heading it says:
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 22:56
ao
the wording on jump packs
"The entire squad" may take them
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:56
The entire squad may take jump packs
yup, that
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 22:56
The 30th marine is part of the unit
not the squad.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:57
for 3pts a model
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 22:57
The squad is the assault squad.
30th marine is a part of that unit but not in the assault squad.
as for the other upgrades, they say to replace the bolt pistol
which the 30th marine doesnt' have
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 22:58
Right, so he'd be able to replace any space marine.
scout, assault, shit even terminator.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:58
well....
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 22:58
but his upgrades are limited to his own datasheet.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:58
there is debate there, for example, sternguard are of type "Veteran"
the "Space marine" bit is implied
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 22:59
But he gets no upgrades. Sure you could swap out the guy with the power fist and plasma pistil. But that would be an expensive trade
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 22:59
but hell, they are all space marines to be honest
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 22:59
Right.
There is no limit on who you can swap
because even tactical squads
they're tactical marines.
not space marines.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 22:59
Heretics worshiping a moldy guy on a throne ...
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:00
But you can't take another squad's upgrades on the 30th marine.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:00
Fully agreed
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:00
so in the case of an assault squad, he'd be footing it
6" at a time
while the jump boyz jump jump jump around.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:00
much as I like the idea that he could add some nice firepower to the generally anaemic assault squad... I fully agree with you
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:00
That is what I mentioned. @Kohato
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:01
Yep @OftKilted . You could still do it.
Just not sure why you want to
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:01
ok, and now to confirm: Are we sticking to the specific wording that he can only replace models with the profile "Space Marine"
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:01
You'd be limited to 6" forward, but I suppose an assault marine on the far left of your fire line could jump to the far right ....
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:01
I wonder if you could legitimately replace an HQ ... Heh
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:01
or are we considering that to include any marine
including veterans, apothecaries, honour guard, champions, Scouts, terminators, centurions, etc...
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:02
The maximum move is limited by the slowest model in the unit
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:02
Without a FAQ it's hard to say, I'm leaing toward any infantry unit in the space marine codex.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:02
Me too
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:02
Honestly, the easiest way is to add him as a no force org option.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:02
They are all marines, even the scouts
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:02
for 0 points.
and let the player replace his single model.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:03
and leave it up to them to enforce the replacement?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:03
that way there's no trying to use a certain unit's upgrades on him
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:03
He's replacing the impaled standard space marine on my Defiler.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:03
Yup. @ddarz
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:03
Most possibly they will just not buy the guy they will replace
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:03
They have to buy him.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:03
They have to buy him
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:04
Jinx
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:04
Thats why he's listed as a no force org option
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:04
him = the imperial
?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:04
BS won't let you go below a 5 marine squad.
So you can't cheat it
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:04
yes but what would stop someone from getting say a 9 man tac squad
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:04
The issue is how a squad handles costs. He's a variable point unit.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:05
and then just adding this guy for 0 pts
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:05
Because you've coded it to not allow that. Right?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:05
Nothing there I suppose.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:05
he needs to cost as much as the guy he repalces yes :)
thats what happens now
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:06
Well then. Someone broke the catalog. You would need to do a set points cost depending on who he joins for minimum model cost
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:06
You could add him as a single shared option for 0 points.
limited to 1 per roster
then add a link to him to every model with the infantry unit type.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:06
yup that's what I've done so far
one linked entry
added to tacs, devs and assaults
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:06
Yea, I guess that'd be best in that case.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:06
and he costs as much as a naked one
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:07
I'd say cost 0
and link it as an upgrade.
If that's possible
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:07
Nope. Have to do a set cost value for the model he is replacing
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:07
bah.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:07
ok I will slowly add him to everyhting then, with variable cost (the cost of the guy he is replacing)
...which will also include bikes...fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:08
Can't be bikes.
He can't take a bike, same reason he can't take a jump pack.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:08
agreed
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:08
hencsnt take a hike. Though he could hoof it. That would be funny.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:08
but he will be able to replace a bike marine
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:08
Ah, true.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:08
I might not even bother with that, nobody will do it
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:08
Honstly - tact, assault, terminator
That's all you need
nobody will replace a libby with him
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:08
scout?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:09
He can replace a marine with a bumble. With a marine without a bike
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:09
Yea, scout
and vets.
Do those 5 I'd say
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:09
Bumble = bike. Whee autocorrect
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:09
honour guard?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:09
Nobody will be replacing a bike or a libby (honestly not even a termie)
Is he worth it in any conceivable way as honor guard replacement?
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:09
aye, I will start with the likely candidates
veterans (stern and command squad)
no way woth it replacing an honour guard
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:10
Then I wouldn't do it
unless someone opens a bug.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:10
and as you pointed out earlier, this opens up the option of replacing HQ's
...
wont bother
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:10
Yea, ....
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:10
vets it is
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:10
I want to face the man who replaces a captain with this marine.
because holy hell is that an easy slay the warlord.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:11
hmm
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:11
Here's the issue you have. He can replace any SM. So... You add an "upgrade line" "replace one space marine and all wargear with "Imperial Space Marine" as a 0 cost
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:11
replace the techmarine on a thunderfire?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:12
Does the TF require a tech marine?
Technically you could I suppose
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:12
I believe he is included with it
but yeah, pointless
I am gonna go with "Rules as Intended"
he replaces standard marines and Vets
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:13
I'd agree with that.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:13
I believe RAI requires him to be painted and put on display or sold on eBay to collectors
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:13
No, that's "Sold as Intended".
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:13
hoho
that is painfully accurate
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:14
haha
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:14
Did you manage to get yours?
Or are you trolling eBay for one?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:14
Glad i'm a xenos scum.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:14
Let's just say that I am based in Nottingham ;)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:14
Also, riptide and stormsurge spam? Painfully countered by mass grav.
Found that out hard last weekend :(
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:15
which brings me to the next issue to deal with - Cataphracti Captains and Contemptors
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:15
Yep! Replace them all!
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:15
On one hand, we will be up to our ears in SnP grav devastators...
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:15
cough
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:16
on the other, every formation that can take a dreadnought of any type, can now take a contemptor
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:16
See IA:13
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:16
Renegades and Heretics?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:17
Same thing. (Except that CSM doesn't really get formations)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:17
What? You totally got formations.
Not that they were that great.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:18
there are no CSM formations in the CSM book. It's all random supplements. Not sure what CSM codex you're reading
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:18
Didn't you know? the 7e CSM Codex is made of supplements.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:19
I hope they just skip the supplements and go directly to 'roids.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 19 2016 23:19
Some of your LOW look like they've been on some.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:20
Don't talk about Samus like that. He's sensitive
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:21
So Black Legion no good then?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:21
it doesn't fix root problems. Provides no "Decurion type" of formation.
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:21
Yeah it hasn't been well received I hear
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:22
And Possessed space marines are "no longer sold" ... But are an integral part of both supplements. Whee?
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:22
Whole line needs a revamp
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:24
There are some cool stuff. In a vacuum, sure they were okay. That's like saying that mid range car your wife gave you isn't bad. And then find out that she gave her sister a Aston Martin Vanquish
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:25
I play Raven Guard, I felt that way when the 7th ed Marine codex dropped
then kauyon came along and cheered me up
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:26
Comparing the chaos supplements to what C:SM got at the exact same time makes me wonder if they even talk to each other
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:26
less than you'd think :(
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:27
He only bright note, is that the Allied Renegade Knight detachment is insanely better than the imperial one ... And can take two Gatling Cannons
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:27
Renegade is going to sell.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 19 2016 23:28
I just need to get my hands on the Blood Oath book from WH:world...
ddarz
@ddarz
Apr 19 2016 23:33
Were are you based?