These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

10th
May 2016
cartag
@cartag
May 10 2016 01:12
and I just realized you just said that... I'm sorry, my brain is not well today :/
Austin C.
@capitaladot
May 10 2016 14:07
+1 pengiuin2000; I'd user voice it.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 17:29
Hey guys, more requests for input.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 17:29
No soup for you.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 17:30
My next step is cleaning up the myriad of detachments SM gets. (Especially with the new things). The only logical way I can see of limiting what each detachment can get is by renaming the required things in the GST to something like GladiusCore and GladiusAux, then Iron Hands Core and Iron Hands Aux.
That way when putting things in those detachments, only valid entries show up
Anyone have a more elegant solution?
Damn you soup nazi!
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 17:31
Can you take the formations as standalone components? Without the core pieces?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 17:31
If they are listed as formations.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 17:31
The issue with hiding is that hiding doesn't work on mobile
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 17:31
That's not the issue though. So for say Gladius
Any SM detachment option that is flagged as "Core" is shown
but I only want gladius ones to show.
And yea - I can't use hide reliably
so until 2.0 - do you think adding a Gladius Core option in place of Core would work?
I want to re-do the whole thing for 2.0 a'la eldar but this is just an interim thing
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 17:33
So. You're planning to do a redo, and a second redo once 2.0 is released?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 17:33
This one here is just stopgap things :/
Since we still have no date for 2.0 ... other than "Soon" as far as I know
not knocking Jon, I know how dev goes.
I have time to do things, so might as well try to fix issues rather than let them just sit
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 17:35
Take a look at the chaos formation groups at the root choices.
I.E. Daemonic Incursiou
Incursion
That @cartag did for chaos
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 17:36
CSM or KDK?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 17:36
KDK has the Decurion, chaos daemons has the incursion
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 17:37
I'm not seeing incursion in CD
nvm I see it
Yea, that's how decurion options are listed for SM too
but look at the SM section in the GST. There are 7 that all list "Core, Command, and Aux"
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 17:38
Force type Chaos CD Daemonic Incursion
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 17:38
The issue is, that each of these 7 have different restrictions on WHICH core/command/aux.
But in the SM codex, all of the options are labled core/command/aux - so all of them, regardless of eligibility, will show.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 17:39
You can't properly hide them unless you're not using mobile
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 17:39
You can't hide them at all can you?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 17:40
nope
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 17:40
I can't hide formations listed in a catalog via the GST.
right.
So my inelegent solution would be to rename Talon Strike Force to require a Talon Core, a Talon Command, and Talon Aux
then re-group those eligible formations as such in the SM codex.
follow?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 17:40
Look at the formations that Cartag did for Chaos KD Blood Host Detachment
Those are the best solid examples I've seen.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 17:42
I agree, its very consice.
So use Gorepack as an example
he has it linked as an Aux, and a formation
For SM however, not every Aux works with each of the 7 decurions.
So - if I were to link the SM formation to a new category I create in the GST: Talon Aux - It would effectively hide it, right?
from all but the Talon Strike force.
Also - thanks for pointing out Cartag's KDK file. That shit is sexily organized. I'll be modeling the re-work I want to do after it.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 18:08
Perhaps visuals will help.
blob
So currently, we have 7 SM decurions. Gladius uses a set selection of those - Currently defined as "Core/Command/Aux" in the codex. The Scarblade Strike force though, can have AUX choices that are also allowed in gladius, but could also use AOD specific ones.
So I would need to change the scarblade options to Scarblade Core, Scarblade Command, and Scarblade Aux - then link the formation entries under those new unit type flags.
blob
So with this - now I could specify formations that are only available with that flag. so they don't show up in say, gladius.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 18:20
Without being able to do "hide" you're really limited.
:-(
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 18:20
I agree, being able to hide cross datasource would make this much neater.
@penguin20000 put in a request for 2.0 for that.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 18:21
That won't happen likely until a 2.x
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 18:21
but barring that being implemented I think what I showed is about the only way to properly restrict formations :/
Was just seeing if anyone had any less inelegant solution before I continued.
AOD was the first real issue with naming every core formation just "Core" ... not really an issue before now.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 18:24
Clarfying the 'Core/Aux' types would be an extremely valuable option, and make moving to future decurion types easier.
Chaos doesn't have the multiple decurion types.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 18:25
Yea, SM is the only one with multiple at the moment
but with precident ..
now we know it "Can" happen.
I'll continue with the SM ones and if it actually works like I think it will I'll change the rest later.
as a sort of "Prep-Work"
unfortunately it requires changes in the main codex for each one too - so I'm just doing SM for now
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 18:27
(And you get a decurion, and you get a decurion .... )
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 18:27
... Either that or D Strength.
Take your pick these days.
Shit, salamanders had a SD powerfist now.
on a damn marine.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 18:29
I'm thinking of just moving to AoS. At least there I know it's all fantasy.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 18:30
"You get points, and you get points, and YOU get points!"
I still can't believe they tried to do AOS without a point system.
and thought it could stay balanced.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 19:00
If you're doing it as narrative, or 'beer and pretzels' it works just fine.
Points only matters (in the big scheme of things) if you are among the individuals who believe that points properly addresses game balance, and that the points values properly work.
You can't use Points values and assume that points values works as soon as you start looking at synergizing effects, and 'this formation gets free stuff, and this formation gets free stuff ... and this one doesn't'
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 19:02
Yea, Points doesn't mean perfect balance, but how do you put limits on AOS though
Model Count?
Or is it just: "Yea, your handful of models looks about even with mine, should be fun"
Also - found 1 more hang-up for the multiple decurion issue when we decide to address it at a later point in time.
Every one is currently a clone of AM's Decurion. So just changing the name doesn't work - each one has to be re-created.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 19:07
Change the GUIDs?
You can update guids.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 19:07
If I just blank it out will it treat it as "New"?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 19:07
Just click the 'create new guid' button
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 19:08
Where's that at? Or am I just blind
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 19:09
It's the change ID button I believe. I don't have access to the tool (not at home)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 19:09
blob
Hmm, yea I don't see that in the Game System editor. It's fine, I can get around it by just making a new category with the name I want.
Just something to note if we want to do it to the rest at some point.
cartag
@cartag
May 10 2016 20:35
At least something I do is sexy lol. You can add links as aux, core, whatever, but set up the formations to hide if not matching a condition group of chapter tactics
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 20:57
Oo good point. I can tie it to that.
cartag
@cartag
May 10 2016 21:03
That's how I'm hiding the CS/BL formations
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 21:27
Not sure that would work not that I think on it.
Gladius can be used by any chapter.
But not all Aux choices can be used in gladius
cartag
@cartag
May 10 2016 21:36
Set to hidden but show if condition group consisting of Instance Of checks for force. Modified methodology but should still apply
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 21:39
That's the problem, I can't use the force modifier in a catalog since the forces are in GST>
dur
nvm
Thanks @cartag !
Of course I can't use force if i'm not on Instance Of :/
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 22:06
so, list question. On a scale of fun to mean, how fun/mean do you think a household detachment of IK + a Librarius Conclave of Salamanders w/ Technomancy and Pyromancy would be. Or perhaps white scars with all technomancy.
Because I'm building that now ... And it will be glorious.
Painted like Dark Souls lords of Cinder.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 22:08
You had me at mean when you added "Librarius Conclave"
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 22:09
hahaha
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 22:09
While it might be "fun" for you. I believe that would be more FU with a substantial lack of N for your opponent
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 22:09
Yea that's what i thought.
Wont see the table much, but i wanted at least 1 IK list available to me
I bought sammael and a ravenwing biker squad to be the librarians on bikes
because sammael looks badass.
Also, Renegade? holy crap is that a good deal. 190 for terrain and 2 knights
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 22:11
Sounds like a blast to paint. Loads of great visual opportunities for modeling.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 22:11
Yup, that was my main drive for it
I decided on doing dark souls so i'm making a bonfire on each base
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 22:12
Yep. And chaos gets all the fun. 2 avenger Gatling cannons on the same kodel
Model
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 22:12
and am looking for 3 IK Scions from Forgeworld
to sit beside the fires.
yea I saw that version
some nastay stuff there
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 10 2016 22:13
The actual game is rather cool. I'd rather play that than 40k tbh.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 10 2016 22:13
yea once i finish the 2 knights i want to play it
i looked fun