These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

26th
May 2016
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 26 2016 12:02
The new draft FAQ for Imperial knights seems to contradict the Prior FAQ for super heavies. "40k FAQ - are super heavy walkers limited to 45 degrees firing arc == no" "imperial Knights - Yes and arms count as sponsons" or did I miss something?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 12:04
They work together.
Arms can pivot and have the normal 45 total arc from each pivot extreme.
Carapace is 360
Shoulder gun is hull mounted.
Taking those together, the walker is not limited to a 45 front firing arc.
Austin C.
@capitaladot
May 26 2016 13:51
@Kohato On Android, 2 clicks to add the "Show Forgeworld container" and 3 clicks per FoC category.
Austin C.
@capitaladot
May 26 2016 14:19
Anyway, the pro-hiding FW camp has shifted arguments, suggesting that perhaps the real reason has not yet been revealed...
Is there something holding up the release of Adeptus Astartes Death from the Skies?
I see the entries in the repo, but no pull request.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 14:22
I'm still for keeping "Show FW" on catalogs. Uniformity over 3 more clicks. User experience is harmed more by lack of commonality between catalogs than having to click another couple times.
It's @hisop 's codex though - If he wants them shown by default I'll change it.
True_Hisop
@hisop
May 26 2016 14:22
I will
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 14:22
I believe @hisop said he's doing a repo update this week.
Austin C.
@capitaladot
May 26 2016 15:28
Cool; good deal. Happy to review PR or something if reviewers are needed.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 26 2016 15:29
@Kohato given that the entire torso on the IK can rotate 360 degrees. And all weapons are attached to the torso. (Much like the turret of a tank) that's an interesting set of distinctions for the FAQ.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 15:30
IKs are not modeled to rotate on the torso.
Custom magnetization does not bend rules.
The arm sponsons are modeled to rotate..
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 26 2016 15:31
They're on a ball and socket joint with a nub to keep it stabilized
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 15:32
GW instructions have that joint glued in place.
They are not modeled to rotate.
Yellow is glue spots.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 26 2016 15:34
and the tracks on a rhino and predator don't move either. They're indicated as glued. That doesn't stop them from being able to move.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 15:34
blob
Vehicles are specifically stated to be allowed to move.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 26 2016 15:35
However that is an assembly determination, based on the fact that stuff falling off on the table is bad karma.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 15:35
Walkers are not stated to be allowed to pivot at the torso.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 26 2016 15:36
The initial FAQ implied it.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 15:36
No it didn't.
If it did, the wording would mirror that of Monsterous Creatures.
Saying it's not limited to a 45' front arc does not mean 360'
it means it's not 45'
cartag
@cartag
May 26 2016 15:37
Just to paste in the wording from their IK FAQ:
Q: Weapons on Walkers are listed as being fixed forward, and the rules for Super-heavy Walkers say that they follow the shooting rules for Walkers. Does this mean that all weapons on an Imperial Knight are limited to the 45° front arc, even including their arms which can physically move much more than 45°, and their carapace weapon which can physically rotate 360°?
A: Treat the Imperial Knight’s arm-mounted ranged weapons as sponson-mounted weapons (see Warhammer 40,000: The Rules) for the purposes of establishing their line of sight. All Imperial Knight carapace weapons have a 360° line of sight.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 26 2016 15:37
and the clarification them just restated the
cartag
@cartag
May 26 2016 15:38
The IK carapace weapons are mounted at the top of the figure, where they wouldn't be blocked by the chest of the model being in the way if they wanted to aim backwards, correct?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 15:38
Which goes hand in hand with the previous super-heavy ruling.
And yes @cartag that is correct. They are on the top.
Nothing to block them save custom modling.
cartag
@cartag
May 26 2016 15:39
Any weapons mounted to the front of the model (think nipple guns from Austin Powers) should not be considered to have 360 degree firing
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 15:39
Correct, and they aren't.
Shoulder mounted has a 45" arc - it is hull mounted.
cartag
@cartag
May 26 2016 15:40
Correct
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 15:40
Arm weapons are sponson - they have their pivot range + 22.5"
Carapace weapons are 360° rotation.
cartag
@cartag
May 26 2016 15:41
Agreed
Just throwing in more clarification for @OftKilted
I think we found the powergamer of the group :)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 15:41
Ah :thumbsup:
One Spyder vs One unit of Spyders told me that :p
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 26 2016 15:48
So ... If you've modeled it to allow Arc of Sight 1, you're not stuck with Arc of Sight 2?
cartag
@cartag
May 26 2016 15:49
Are you asking if your shoulder mounted weapons get 360 degree firing just because your torso rotates? If so, no. 45 degrees from front facing
same as any other walker
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 15:49
Custom modeling does not apply to firing arcs.
Period.
Firing arcs are based on weapon type. If you glue a sponson facing forward (for whatever reason) It is still a sponson weapon.
Similarly, if you magnetize a hull mounted weapon - it is still a hull mounted weapon
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 26 2016 15:52
So, not gluing the arm rotator to allow the available movement (which is greater than 45) to rotate to point at the target (ignoring the torso rotation) is modeling for advantage. And sponson weapons have Arc of Fire 1 (and 2) as options
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 15:52
Why would you glue the arm rotator?
Again, instructions have you NOT doing that.
They are made to pivot.
Nvm, It doesnt' matter. Regardless - gluing it or not does not change. It is a sponson weapon. It gets it's full intended rotation + 22.5°
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 26 2016 15:54
So, back to the diagrams in the BRB. Which arc of fire do they get for sponsons? Arc of fire 1, or arc of fire 2 (both show as being for sponsons)
cartag
@cartag
May 26 2016 15:55
Sponson 2 is for models that have a back side shield on the sponson that does not allow for full range of motion
Knights don't have that
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 15:55
Correct. Either one is considered "Full range of motion + 22.5"
It is just detailing a predator/razorback's full range of motion stops at a certain point.
because it is intended to on the model.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 26 2016 16:02
Where is the "full range of motion + 22.5" from?
cartag
@cartag
May 26 2016 16:03
Because static mounted weapons have a 45° range, 22.5° in either direction
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 26 2016 16:10
Interesting apparently people were assuming that the carapace weapon was hull mounted, and the arms were forward fire arc only.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 16:17
Yea. That's what the faq was clarifying.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 26 2016 16:21
The "Sanctuary" ion shield ruling is pretty crappy. It changed your 4+ on one and 6+ on other facings to 6+ on all. ( which doesn't seem to match the “Sanctuary counts as an ion shield. In addition, a Knight equipped with Sanctuary has a 6+ invulnerable save against each facing that is not covered by its ion shield")
Or maybe not. I need another cup of coffee.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 16:26
That's not how i took it
I took that clarification to mean you don't get ion shield one in the front and sanctuary on the back
With 6+ on the sides
You get sanctuary Which is 4+ on one side then 6+ on the other 3
OftKilted
@OftKilted
May 26 2016 16:27
The
I think the question was implying that you had a double layered shield with the question. (I.e. You get a 4+ on 2 facings)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 26 2016 16:30
Agreed. Which I agree with the ruling
Being no
Sanctuary is an ion shield with a bonus that replaces the one on it