These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

15th
Sep 2016
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 03:19
Oh?
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 03:20
Haven't had teh money to upgrade in years, had to reboot four times in 20 minutes because one thing or another wouldn't load when I booted
and not minor things, things like the software for my mouse and keyboard, my NIC thinking I have no connection, major things
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:04
Ok, how in the hell did my CSM file on Git jump from 202 to 205? Thanks for making my shit harder to work on. I've been messing with ways to get VotLW free in that detachment, which is harder than I thought it would be, given that we don't have an option for "Not Instance of"
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:07
O.o sounds like at least a piecemeal upgrade is in order this tax season.
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:09
@GenWilhelm, can you tell me why you are removing links I have set up and working in the files? You removing the Heldrake flyer wing from fast attack will cause issues. Heldrakes can be brought as singular or multiples, and the reason they are listed separately is because some formations want only one Heldrake, without the option for more. With the Flyer Wing option listed in FA, they can bring up to three and still only use up one FA slot. It's valid and should have stayed like it is. Next time, consult me before modifying the Chaos files. They are done a certain way for a reason, I don't like undoing other people's things to make it fit cohesively with the rest of it
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:11
Cohesivness aside, why remove a wing from fast attack? It says a wing can be taken in the singular's slot ...
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:11
^
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Sep 15 2016 13:11
Where does it say that?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:11
... in the book?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Sep 15 2016 13:11
What page?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:12
h/o pulling it up
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:14
Pg 130. It says it can be upgraded to a Flyer Wing with up to 3 additional for 170/model. The Flyer Wing profile has 2 min Heldrakes in it. I'm listing it separately because one model does not make it a Flyer Wing
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:14
^
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Sep 15 2016 13:14
Also, I wasn't aware @cartag was the only person allowed to edit the CSM datafile, so my apologies for that.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:14
Each new datasheet has that
One person isn't locked to a single file Gen.
But with a project this large, keeping things in line is hard
People have different coding styles, it's MUCH nicer to keep a codex unified and the same throughout
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Sep 15 2016 13:15
"upgraded to a Flyer Wing" ergo it is no longer Fast Attack.
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:15
Go to https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/wiki/Catalogue-Keepers. I've been doing a lot of work finding out what works and what doesn't in the process of switching everything over when BS2 is ready, and I don't want to have to do your work also
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:15
Ok Gen, in that aspect, what is a flyer wing
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:16
But the Flyer Wing in that case still works off the same datasheet, so it is fast attack
there is no force org slot for a flyer wing
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:16
^
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Sep 15 2016 13:16
A Flyer Wing is a separate force organisation slot as defined on page 104.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:16
No it is not
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:17
No, an Air Superiority Detachment is a separate FOC as defined on page 104
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:17
ASD is a detachment containing 1-3 flyer wings.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Sep 15 2016 13:17
^
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:17
The datasheets and Formations on the following pages allow you to field Flyers as individual models, or in Flyer Wings of 2 to 4 models. The datasheets replace those found in the models’ respective codexes.
That doesn't mean they can't be brought in a CAD though. It's legal to bring a Flyer Wing in a CAD, in either the Heavy Support or Fast Attack slot
The important thing is, don't go in and edit numerous codexes because you think you know better. We discuss things here
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:18
blob
There is no clarification/exception listed regarding FOC slot.
They are treated as normal.
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:43
The reason we didn't have the Wing Leader tables included is the same reason a lot of files don't have Warlord Traits or Psychic Powers tables in them. If everybody used BS instead of owning the books, GW would come down hard on us. This way we can claim you still need the books to play
Marina
@Marina42
Sep 15 2016 13:45

Little both ontopic and offtopic, I had no idea such thing as Catalogue Keepers existed (my bad, I guess). I have done lots of changes to the Harles codex since I joined (it hadn't been modified in months prior to me). I just contacted the current keeper to apology ^^u.

@cartag , your comment about BS2 made me worry, is there a wiki of some sort arround here about how we should maintain the catalogue to BS2? or do we just try if it works in BS2? xD

Also, about the warlord thingy, I saw it in some catalogues and thought it was a nice idea so I added it to Harles, should I remove it?

cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:46
We have a separate repo for BS2 prep work. If you want to go here: https://github.com/BSData/wh40kbs2 you can see what we have done so far. The biggest things is a move of USRs from the individual data files to the main GST, the file for the game system
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:46
BS2 will have catalogs maintained the same way. BS2 is currently alpha and a couple of us (really just Cartag and myself at this point) are proofing out a couple catalogs for it in preperation
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:46
At the same time, we're moving the special detachments and formations to the individual data files
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:46
^ that's the biggest change.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:47
Which unfortunately requires a good bit of modification to all the existing cat files.
But in the end it will be better.
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:47
In the end it'll be MUCH simpler to maintain
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:47
Yep.
Universalerror
@Universalerror
Sep 15 2016 13:47
As is with every major overhaul.
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:47
If we get an 8E at some point in the future, the USRs will only need to be updated in one place rather than in ALL the data files
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:47
Warlord traits are maintained on the keeper's preference really.
Marina
@Marina42
Sep 15 2016 13:48
that's good news :) so in the catalogues of BS1 I should act as if BS2 won't ever exist?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:48
I'm of the camp that it's all or nothing with what we do. So I've included them in my re-write of SM.
Kind of?
BS2 will automatically convert catalogs to it's format
Marina
@Marina42
Sep 15 2016 13:48
oh wow
osom
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:48
It balloons filesize, which is why we're doing prep work
but in the mean time, it will still work for the most part.
Universalerror
@Universalerror
Sep 15 2016 13:48
What kind of ratio is it?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:49
Filesize balloon?
Universalerror
@Universalerror
Sep 15 2016 13:49
YEah
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:49
SM went from 3.2 to 5.4mb
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:49
If you're not concerned over using the USRs in your data file, go hog wild. If you don't mind doing a bit of extra work maintaining two versions of the file until the release, you can do what I do and update in tandem
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:49
It's entirely dependant on the conditionals in your catalog. BS2 handles conditionals and Min/Max differently, so each one has a new xml line added - which explodes filesize.
Universalerror
@Universalerror
Sep 15 2016 13:49
Not apocalypticly bad but not great.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:49
A lot of those extra lines can be deleted.
No, not terrible. But on already massive files (SM, CSM, SW, etc) it's noticable
Marina
@Marina42
Sep 15 2016 13:50
I don't mind doing extra work to favor my psychotic murdery clowns c:
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:51
You can also do a lot of REALLY cool stuff with it. Checks for how many models are in a unit, setting modifiers on files based off ancestors of the entry (say Jump Packs for CSM Lord, can make it free if an Ancestor of it is the Raptor Talon formation)
Universalerror
@Universalerror
Sep 15 2016 13:51
How are the conditionals handled then? AFAIK it's all via XML.
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:51
As it stands now, I'll have to make a completely different entry of the Chaos Lord to make the jump pack free and mandatory that exists only in the Raptor Talon formation
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:51
@marina efalsken is fairly active (Not recently, but then again, I've been away too :p) He finished an eldar re-write not all that long ago
Give him an @ and see what he has planned for harleys.
Marina
@Marina42
Sep 15 2016 13:52
I already did Earl :)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:52
Perfect :)
Conditionals are given a separate xml line for each now.
Max =
Min =
Before, they were all in a single line in the unit
Universalerror
@Universalerror
Sep 15 2016 13:53
Hmm...
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:53
Which is what baloons the file.
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:54
That and in conversion, it lists ALL of them. Min/max in parent/roster/force/category etc
Universalerror
@Universalerror
Sep 15 2016 13:54
Granted it aids readablilty but that's why we have the roster editor. Will it be changed back to being atributes again?
cartag
@cartag
Sep 15 2016 13:54
that may be better asked here: https://gitter.im/BattleScribe/BattleScribe
Universalerror
@Universalerror
Sep 15 2016 13:55
Right, this is the wh40k repo.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 15 2016 13:55
Yea, that's all Jon.
I just know vaguely how it works and what has changed :smile:
Universalerror
@Universalerror
Sep 15 2016 13:56
Got ya.