These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

31st
Dec 2016
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 01:46
alright, since @FarseerVeraenthis went there, lets take a vote. Support BOTH C:IA AND C:Inq/C:AS, or do we consider the old codecies outdated and not supported? just for reference sake, both C:AS and C:Inq are availible in ePub form from the BL site.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Dec 31 2016 02:29
They are still supported. C:IA have different faction names then the other two.
Normally when a faction gets an update they retain faction name. IE inquitition forces, chaos space Marines forces.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:30
Where do you see this?
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Dec 31 2016 02:31
I'm at work, I'll have to reference it later.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:32
im looking now
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:33
Didn't gw say in fb both are valid?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:34
I've never personally seen this supposed validation
But no, @flakpanda, sisters have the exact same faction. Checking inq
No, Inq and C:IA also same exact faction
So that's no argument at all
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:40
I'm just asking since there's enough doubt now amongst us - @FarseerVeraenthis even changed the title of the one Inq bugrep to "outdated book?"
What is the official, BattleScribe 40K datadev opinion? Hence why I put it to vote
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 02:42
Are we doing IA as one file or one for each faction?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:43
It should honestly be treated as a supplement for each
Roll the special detachments into the other cat files
Make a "supplement" choice in the uncategorized slot if needed to block choices
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 02:44
That's what I was thinking, otherwise you'll have to hide all units except one faction that is selected
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:44
It's a bit of a pain but the most logical way to treat it
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 02:45
you couldn't do a CAD with an HQ from sisters, Deathwatch troops, and Cult Mechanicus elites
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:45
Right
So yea. I argue for rolling them into each cat file as you would a supplement
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:48
ok, then what about identically named units?
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 02:48
Keep the most recent
or if they say both are still valid, make a duplicate and include " - IA" after the unit name?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:49
sisters didnt change much in the army, nonnestly, other then splitting up the battle conclave into seperate units then making the big combined thing be a formation now.
also added a (New/better) custom detachment for sisters.
the big issue is inq
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:49
Both voices are valid
Ref: space wolves
Add (IA) after the new name one
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:50
because things were left out of IA that were in Inq, and they completely changed the henchmen squad and how it works
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:50
You'd have two henchmen squads then
It's a pita but space wolves have precident to identical named units both being legal
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:51
well, that's the thing - i'd be one henchmen squad, and 6 individual compontents of the former henchmen squad now being units.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:52
Oh so it's a detachment?
Even easier
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:52
plus a formation that is basically the old henchmen squad
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:52
Make it a detachment and hide the single squad units unless ancestor is that detachment
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 02:52
^
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:53
so make everything IA the IA detachment only.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:53
If that's how they're taken yea
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 02:53
If they're only available in that detachment that is
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:53
If there legal in a CAD then they would be available as well
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:54
no troops
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:54
Then no need
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:54
but technically could be taken in old inq detachment too
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:54
Make a detachment for inq ia
Make these single unit things choices
Hide unless ancestor matches
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:54
ok.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:55
And for duplicates just add (IA) after the name until squatted by gw
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:55
@FarseerVeraenthis, you should consider yourself chastised.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:56
Bit of a pain to set up, but the most logical given the way the book is laid out
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:56
thankfully sisters, DW, GK, and OA are all basically copy-paste. save for the ministorum stuff - which falls back into it's a detachment, take it that way.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:57
Yea the detachment ones are simple to implement with ancestor hiding
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:57
can you have a hidden of if ansestor is a dteachment or formation?
detachment*
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:57
Yea
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 02:57
I had to do hidden if ancestor is not instance of, and that's in the link to the entry, otherwise it won't work
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:57
because both nonsense can be taken as a formation version of the origional unit.
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 02:57
TL was amajor pain in my ass because of that
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 02:58
Hide if ancestor is not selection of x
I can look at the book tomorrow and do a quick pseudocode for how it should be implemented if you'd like
I'm playing a 3v1 5.5k game now
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 02:59
sure, if you could - just mark it as such so i dont miss it.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:00
Np. I'll post it tomorrow when I get up. Won't be home til late late
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 03:00
i'll be unavailibe till 4ish EST anyway so that'll work.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:00
Turn 3 after 3 hours lol
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 03:00
sounds bout right.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:00
Crons wolves iron hands vs 5.5k of nids
It's..... interesting
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 03:01
my local group is having a team tourney next month,and people keep gawking at that we have like 3 hours set aside for each 2k round (2k per side, 1k per player)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:02
3 hours is not enough
Lol
3 hours barely fits my 1850 games
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 03:02
Our tourneys here are 1850 with 2 hour rounds
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:02
Wow really?
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 03:02
/nod
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:02
Do you get 7 rounds?
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 03:03
Most are 3 or 4 games, don't remember scoring method
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:04
Oh nice
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 03:04
it might be 4.
but yeah, we have competitive tourney players who are like why so long?
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 03:04
I think we start at 11, dice down at 1, 1:30-3:30, then 5-7
or 4:30-6:30, then 7-9 if 4 round
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 03:21
Just curious if anybody else plays Blood Bowl, or would know of a decent mini to use as a coach for an orc team. I'm trying to find a good one and am failing so far.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:33
I do
Well. Pc
Haven't invested in tabletop yet
Unmm you could get a Rex Ryan model
He's orcish enough :p
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 03:36
No clue who that is
I don't watch sportsball
and yes, I know that's weird since I also play BB
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:37
Oh. Well my jokes are now useless
Lol
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 03:38
He looks like a pleasant individual
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:39
Could get a sigmar Orruk warchanter
And change his chant sticks to footballs
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 03:39
or a sign that says "<--- GOAL"
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:39
Haha yea
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 03:39
just add a board between the sticks
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:39
That'd be great
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 03:39
I like that idea
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:40
Paint your team colors on his armor
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 03:40
if I do that I'll let you know
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:40
Yea I'd like to see that. It'd be cool to see
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 03:41
I converted the human team into my Khorne Dawgz
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:41
Hahaha
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 03:41
Nobody should be surprised by this
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:41
Ohhhh. Have your coach ride a khorn rhino
BLoodcrusher I think it's callers
Called*
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 03:42
eh, too serious lol
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 03:42
Err no. This is for an orc team
Yea just the warchanter sign holder
Or hold a playbook that says Win Playz or something orkish
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Dec 31 2016 05:55
So finally took a good look at C:IA… This book makes things confusing.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 31 2016 07:13
Yup, @flakpanda you're not wrong... @alphalas I changed the name to (try to) catch anyone else posting the same question/bug again, so that we could have a discussion, decide our position, and post it there for future reference... As mentioned before, the way C: IA has been handled has been very messy.
I think all the content of the book should be in inquisition and then switches to show/hide entries based on force choices... Because you can have an inquisitor with a henchman band and also have a unit of Deathwatch from the same book - people might not have access to the Deathwatch book so the details should be included in the inquisition CAT...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Dec 31 2016 07:18
After looking through the book, I think that everything should be put into it’s own factions catalog
the warband is a Inq formation and should be placed in the Inq cat as such
whoever manages Inq will just have to include all the units available to the warband
our catalogs are based on factions and not codexes per se.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 31 2016 07:22
Yes, I absolutely agree, and that's my understanding of how the data has been implemented so far...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Dec 31 2016 07:22
IE we didnt create 9 more catalogs when Traitor Legions dropped
they are all CSM
if there is a way a poll can be creates inside of an issue, or link a strawpoll, we can vote on it if we want to.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 31 2016 07:26
Yep, and that's my point, all the info (necessary) should be in the inquisitor CAT because it is possible to take different squads from what are currently different cat's and the user might not have all the different books... And the different formations should be included in the separate CAT for each faction...
So I think we're all on the same page, nothing is being replaced, just incorporated into existing CAT's...
I just wanted somewhere for users to read what we've decided...
cartag
@cartag
Dec 31 2016 12:05
We didn't create nine more cats for CSM because they're all still CSM faction. C:IA plainly states each group is its own faction, not one overarching one for the entire book. There simply is not an Imperial Agents faction for them to belong to.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 13:57
Ok, wall of text incoming
@alphalas
Enjoy

Cult Mechanicus Cat

Enginseer Congregation: New Detachment
Requires 1 HQ
Must be Tech-Priest Engiseer
Optional 1 Elite
Must be Servitors

Tech-Priest Engiseer: New HQ unit available in Cult Mechanicus Cat
Servitors: New Elite unit available in Cult Mechanicus Cat


Imperial Agents (NEW CAT)

Imperial Navy Section: New Detachment
Requires 1 Fast Attack
Must be Valkrie
Optional 1 HQ
Must be Officer of the Fleet

Officer of the Fleet: New HQ unit available in the Imperial Agents Cat
Valkrie: New Fast Attack unit available in the Imperial Agents Cat

Psykana Division: New Detachment
Requires 1 HQ
Must be Primaris Psyker OR Astropath
Optional 3 Elites
Must be Wyrdvane Psyker

Primaris Psyker: New HQ unit available in the Imperial Agents Cat
Astropath: New HQ unit available in the Imperial Agents Cat
Wyrdvane PSyker: New Elite unit available in the Imperial Agents Cat

Spectral Host: New Detachment
Requires 1 Elites
Must be Damned Legionnaries
Optional 3 Elites
Must be Damned Legionnaries

Damned Legionnaries: New Elite unit available in the Imperial Agents Cat


Officio Assassinorum Cat

Change the name of the detachment to Assassinorum Operative
Change the name of the formation to Execution Force
Otherwise no changes necessary.


Deathwatch Cat

Deathwatch Kill Team: New Detchment
Requires 1 Troops

There doesn't appear to be any changes to Veterans or the Corvus. If there is, duplicate the unit and mark the new one with "(IA)" in the name at the end.


Grey Knights Cat

Daemonhunter Strike Force: New Detachment
Requires 1 Troops OR Fast Attack
Optional 1 Heavy Support

Terminator Squad
Interceptor Squad
Nemesis Dreadknight
Land Raider
Land Raider Crusader
LAnd Raider Redeemer

None of the above appear to have changes, if they do, duplicate and mark with "(IA)" at the end of their name.


Sisters Cat

Ministorum Delegation: New Detachment
Requires 1 HQ
Must be Ministorum Priest
Optional 1 Elites

Vestal Task Force: New Detachment
Requires 1 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 Elites
Optional 1 HQ, 4 Troops, 2 Elites, 3 Fast Attack, 3 Heavy Support

Didn't go through their unit lists. If there's new ones, add it, if duplicate, you should know what to do by now.


Inquisition Cat

Inquisitorial Representative: New Detachment
Requires 1 HQ
Optional 1-3 Elites

Didn't go through their unit lists. If there's new ones, add it, if duplicate, you should know what to do by now.

In short, most of the C:IA stuff should be rolled into their parent force cats, really just new detachments that support existing choices
If there are dupilcate but changed datasheets, you keep both, name the new one with (IA) at the end
There will need to be a C:IA cat though, to house Aeronautica Imperialis, Astra Telepathica, and Legion of the Damned
But those can just be a single cat file, with choices locked behind the parent detachment choice
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 14:09
Cult mech @Thairne took care of
Why are you putting LoTD into a new IA cat? They have their own already
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 14:10
Oh they do?
nvm, put that stuff in theirs then
didn't realize they had their own
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 14:10
Imo, there should be 2 new cats, not one - one for AAT, one for AI
That's how I was going to do it
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 14:11
That works too
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 14:13
But yeah, thankfully everything save the ministorum and henchmen bs is just copy-paste
And if there were any changes, they were slight, and were improvements
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 31 2016 14:14
yea I didn't see any major changes when I paged through
but I didn't do sisters, there was a lot of those lol
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 14:19
Lol yeah
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Dec 31 2016 17:42
i just realized the DW KT detachment in C:IA is a better aquila kill team, lol
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 17:53
Lol
Yup doesn't need the other stuff lol
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Dec 31 2016 17:55
yeah. and you can combat squad
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 18:17
Nice
But that's if you take 10
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 31 2016 20:27
Of course, it might sound like that, but you can't include it in a black Spear strike force so no deep strike, and you only need one extra model to make an Aquila team which doesn't sound like much of a tax... You can combat squad a squad of 10 Veterans in the normal cat, the only thing you lose is re roll to wound...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Dec 31 2016 20:43
That reroll is clutch tho
To include vets in another army without the tax is what I was mostly thinking
I wouldn't if my main detachment was DW
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 31 2016 20:44
There is that :-)
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Dec 31 2016 20:47
Combat sqading 4 frag cannons and a Sgt with 5 stalker boltguns sounds interesting. I might try that with my Marines.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 31 2016 20:49
Yikes, actually, that is pretty naughty...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Dec 31 2016 20:50
See how different being able to combat squad them can be. Especially with the reroll
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 20:51
Yeah that is the best way to include DW in another army I do agree
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 22:43
hey @FarseerVeraenthis you still up to fixing marine bugs? there are a few more on the issues page.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 31 2016 22:50
Yeah, I don't have a good copy of the Marine codex and those ones seem a little picky... Plus I'm still working my way through the collected Eldar issues from Owly... I'm not working on anything tonight so if you want to have a bash, feel free :smile:
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 22:50
oh noi was just asking cause i assigned you lol
the one i can tell you is easily fixed - put the nartheceum wargear on a tac sgt and conditional hide it unless Red sorpion chapter tactics.
scorpion*
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 31 2016 22:53
Yup, I've just been avoiding it :-)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 22:54
fair lol
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 31 2016 22:56
Why do you think almost all the Cats have kill team in them now...
The only ones missing are siege assault vanguard and Babdab - are we still supporting these ones?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 22:57
i think so - but nobody wants to touch them lol
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 31 2016 22:58
You're not wrong, I don't think they're very pretty...
Oh, happy new year central European time!!
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 31 2016 23:02
'Murica.
:P
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 31 2016 23:06
Pipe down in the cheap seats, you'll have your chance in a couple of hours...!
:-P