These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

20th
Jan 2017
boom goes the dynamite
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 20 2017 14:53
RIP alpha legion decurion
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 14:57
not rip - just oh damn, it doesnt stack.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 14:57
what happened to them?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 14:57
i personally felt the stacking was just an interpretation anyway - seemed too good to be true.
ok, ECPA for tau empire needs to go back to being riptides only.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 14:58
Q: Do Canoptek Wraiths and C’tan suffer the Initiative penalty
when charging through terrain, despite their special rules which
allow them to treat other models and terrain as if they were open
ground when moving?
A: No.
Thank you logic!
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 20 2017 14:59
why have the command benefit that doesnt stack with their regular benefit? :P
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 15:00
KT cassius gets mission tactics
Donatus's Frag cannon is now identical to the DW frag cannon
Q: Can the individual characters from Kill Team Cassius be
used in other Deathwatch units or Formations?
A: No, but they can be included in detachments where,
for example, any Deathwatch HQ unit could be selected.
Q: Can Jensus Natorian use the updated Deathwatch Librarian
psychic powers?
A: Yes.
Q: Can Veterans take a storm shield and a heavy weapon? It
only says they need to swap out a bolter for the heavy weapons
and a close combat weapon for the storm shield, but heavy
weapons are normally two-handed.
A: Yes.
Q: Can a single model equipped with a heavy thunder hammer
and a storm shield use both in combat?
A: Yes.
Q: Can you take a cyclone missile launcher on Terminators
with a thunder hammer and storm shield or two
lightning claws?
A: Yes.
woot!
Q: The Strategium Command Team consists of a Kill Team and
a character model. Does the character model need to physically
join the Kill Team for the Formation special rules, or is it
enough if he is simple brought as the leader?
A: He must physically join the Kill Team
thats a shame.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 15:03
Q: Imperial Agents seems to replace existing material but
Games Workshop has indicated that players can use either
the new or older material. As Imperial Agents lacks certain
things present in older material, such as Servo Skulls, which do
we use?
A: If you have bought and own the existing and still
currently available digital Codex: Adepta Sororitas and
Codex: Inquisition, you can use those over the rules
presented in Imperial Agents if you wish
That settles that once and for all.
Rather happy with the 'cron faq :)
Obelesk Nerf a bit, (doesnt' force test on FMC) but huge buff to the guns
180 degree arc!
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 15:12
Ooo, an IK clarification
Carapace Weapon 360 arc. Arm weapons, a 90 degree arc from forward to side.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 15:12
hellfire extremis is a regular combi now - one use only.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 15:13
Q: A Culexus Assassin’s Psychic Abomination special rule says
that nearby Psykers only harness Warp Charge points on a 6,
but some Psykers, like those in a Seer Council Formation, have
special rules that let them harness Warp Charge points on a 3+.
Which rule takes precedence?
A: In these cases, the Culexus Assassin’s Psychic
Abomination special rule takes precedence.
Fuck you magns.
*Magnus
oh nvm, read that wrong
fuck that's a buff for magnus
vs nids
well fuck
@FarseerVeraenthis
Q: Is it possible for an Apothecary to carry items from the
Special Weapons and/or Melee Weapons lists (e.g. by a Veteran
purchasing upgrades, and being subsequently upgraded to
an Apothecary)?
A: No.
time to change that back :/
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 15:19
lolol Q: Do Space Marine Drop Pod doors count as solid walls that
block line of sight?
A: No.
Q: Are Drop Pod doors ignored for game purposes
once deployed?
A: Yes.
They flipped complete 180 on that
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 20 2017 15:22
Another victory for logic.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 15:24
Q: Can the Captain requirement in a Demi-company, for
example the Battle Demi-company in a Gladius Strike Force, be
upgraded to a Chapter Master? None of the alternate named
characters are currently Chapter Masters.
A: No.
Lets just redo the SM codex -.-
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 15:35
nooooooooo
My dream of tidewall pingpong is dead!
Q: Can attacking units Jink or make a cover save to avoid
suffering a Wound or a glancing hit as a result of the Tidewall
Shieldline’s Tidewall Field special rule?
A: No
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 15:40
damn
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 15:51
Woah that's a lot to catch up with...
I'm glad to see Cassius gets mission tactics, that's a big buff
What are the librarian special Deathwatch powers
And how can a veteran have more than a heavy thunder hammer when he has to give up his weapons to take one? He can't take anything else...
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 15:55
hmm, still no clarification on if tau signature systems are relics
1 per army, but no mention of 1 per model
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 15:55
theyre not
because several are designed to interact
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 15:56
That's what I'd always thought too
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 15:56
if it's one per model that invalidates half of them.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 15:57
Any thoughts on if a coldstar can take 2 additional weapons/support systems?
Commander can take 4, or trade his crisis suit in for a coldstar suit with 2 weapons.
Could he then fill the remaining two hardpoints?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 15:57
screencap of page?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 15:58
blob
I was hoping for a clarification on that. We currently do not allow it in BS.
Only clarification on coldstar they gave was that it cannot take signature systems
Which to me says they can't take weapons either due to how the signature system option is worded for them.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 15:59
id say so
agreed - no ranged
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 16:00
Alright, that's what I'd figured - just no real clarification on it
I chuckled at the stormsurge on a tidewall
Anchors don't give a damn
they drill through the tidewall
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 20 2017 16:10

@Kohato

hmm, still no clarification on if tau signature systems are relics

Come on, after such an FAQ if it still isn't clarified as being Relics, and clearly stating that can take any not any one or one of the following, is there any, any indication at all that Sig Systems are relics?

Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 16:12
blob
blob
There is prescedent for the question.
May take Items
but FAQ'd to 1.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 20 2017 16:13
Oh but these are called clearly Relics and BRB FAQ handled that
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 16:13
Lol, so redoing the SM codex again I see @Kohato
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 16:13
blob
Ok, fine. What about Artefacts of the Aeons
Those aren't relics.
Those are Artefacts of the Aeons
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 20 2017 16:16
Artefacts are also FAQed in BRB
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 16:16
@FarseerVeraenthis what did you change to break the Libby in DW?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 20 2017 16:17
2017-01-20.png
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 16:17
I can do this all day
blob
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 20 2017 16:17
Come on, they could call it Artefacts of Earth Caste
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 16:17
Can eldar take more than 1 then?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 20 2017 16:18
oh that I don't know
I'm specifically talking Tau
Also, FAQ says Farsight Tau can now take from both Tau Empire SigSystems and Farsight SigSystems
:D
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 16:19
That is true.
I could see any eldar player argue for multiple on his farseer though.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 20 2017 16:20
Well, checked now, Remnants of Glory says A model can replace one weapon with one of the following.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 16:21
I'm all for multiple on my commanders. Just saying that it's not cut and dry for all armies
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 20 2017 16:21
That's rather clear for Eldar, just one.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 16:22
but then you'll get the argument of what if i replace multiple weapons.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 16:22
So it is, but then you could replace one weapon with one, and one weapon with another.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 20 2017 16:22
Nono, please guys, that's English grammar at it's best, one means one.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 16:23
Just always felt odd that tau are the only army that ignore global relic limitations
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 20 2017 16:23
Well, they have two specifically designed to work with each other (but only when on single model), never seemed odd to me.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 16:24
That's true enough
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 20 2017 16:27
I can see an argument being made for selecting multiple Remnants though, 'cause half of them are marked as "does not replace [...] weapon", and also they are not relics nor artefacts. Sooo yeah, not clear here.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 16:28
I don't believe they should be, but yes - not exactly clear.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 16:29
I'm on mobile, has some/can someone make a list ticket for FAQ update impliment?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 20 2017 16:30

All in all I'm happy FAQs are quite logical, mostly expected answers, and finally consistent.

I see that's a whole lot of work for us, too. That part is not so happy.

Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 16:30
Yea, SM is gonna need a bit of changes :/
I like the new IK firing profiles
and love the new T-Vault firing arc
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 16:31
thankfully for my cats it doesnt look like a whole lot of big changes
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 16:31
I'm so happy for my buffed T-vault
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 20 2017 16:31
:D
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 16:31
Not as happy I can't have the nightbringer in a conclave of the burning one ...
but it does cement that the trascendent c'tan model was always meant to represent a shard of the burning one.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 16:32
AS= minimal changes
AM= nada, from looks.
GK= nada
IA= yeah that's a pain
Inq - nada - maybe adjust plasma siphon to reflect that blurb about if it has plasma in name it's affected
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 16:38
ohh! hot shot volley gun doesnt get hot anymore.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 20 2017 17:04
Deathwatch Vets aren't allowed to take shotgun + boltgun anymore?!
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 17:04
correct
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 20 2017 17:09
that seems like a rather arbitrary restriction
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 18:48
that does, especially since you can take heavy weapon + SS
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 19:40
Can anyone tell me if I am reading this correctly? That DW KTs cannot under any circumstance take a deticated transport now? Even if the veterans can?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 19:50
It would seem that way.
If it doesn't say they can take one, they can't take one
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 19:52
But vets squads are part of the kill teams, which let you take a DT. I've just always followed the rules for DTs, like not termies, bikes, or vvets in rhinos.
But if you can't period, then the corvus becomes worse.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 19:53
It makes sense thought.
You can't take a dedicated transport in a kill team with bikes.
Bikes can't get in
and you can't have half a unit in or out
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 19:54
But I can take an Aquila kts with vets and a Libby and a termie and they can all fit in a drop dop
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 19:55
yea, that one makes no sense
Furor requires vets and termies and even has in its restrictions no more than 10 excluding DT
yea that FAQ ruling is a bit fucky.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 19:57
See what I mean now
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 20 2017 19:57
Oh yea, it's screwy
makes as much sense as the 1st draft c'tan faq
To their FB page!
hopefully someone gets a response from them
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 20:03
@flakpanda i deleted "bolt pistol" from the wargear list...
and didn't realise that now the libby can't take one :-(
oh look, is that the howling of wolves I hear...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 20:04
I'm going to go thru it in a sec when I get home.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 20:05
right, I can have a bash right now...
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 20:14
Yeah bp is nogo in chaplain too
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 20:16
and in the Watch captain as well... at least it was until I just patched it :smile:
I feel like such an amateur
honestly feel like half the time I'm creating more bugs than I'm fixing...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 20:35
bugs.png
there is a programmer’s joke @FarseerVeraenthis.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 20:36
uhuh, I've seen it before... a little too close to home for me atm though...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 20:36
lol
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 20:38
oh, yes, so, I fixed deathwatch, so if you want to do anything I recommend you update your data first :smile:
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 20:46
i was just going to do the bug fixes and FAQ updates
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 20:48
that's cool, just the FAQ updates left to go then :-) I'll carry on building Nihilus
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 20:50
So the DW Vet Sgt is limited to just boltgun, melee weapons and xenophase blade now...
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 20:51
well, kinda.. although, he can take special wepaons as well I think..
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 20:51
no, nvm. reading that wrong
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 20:51
:+!:
:+1:
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 20:52
but it is odd they changed the xenophase bullet point even tho bullet point 2 states any model
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 20:53
possibly to stop people dicking aobut and trying to give him two xenophase blades...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 20:53
Change the 8th bullet point to:
‘The Watch Sergeant may replace his close combat
weapon with one of the following:
  • an item from the Melee Weapons list
  • a xenophase blade (pg 106) .................................. 25 pts’
they only added the first sub-bullet
otherwise wording is the same
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 20:55
yup, I think that means no dual pistol sergeants
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 20:55
why, i can still replace my boltgun with a pistol, and my ccw with a pistol
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 20:56
no you can't, because you can only replace your CCW with a melee weapon or a Xenophase blade
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 20:56
“Any model may take items from the MeleeWeapons, RangedWeaponsand/or Special Weaponslist”
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 20:56
I know
I'm just playing devils advocate
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 20:57
nothing restricts 2 pistols still
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 20:57
this is the same (or at least similar) discussion to the other night with the pari of wolf claws
it is still strange that they felt the need to errata that point...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 20:58
pair of wolf claw? whats the agrument there?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 20:58
oh, who can / can't take a pair... basically, everyone with two weapons can, everyone else can't. But the wording in the codex is a bit unclear
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 20:59
ah
also i relized how you can take a HTH and SS now… and i feel a bit dumb for not realizing it before
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 20:59
also, wrt Kill Teams and dedicated transports - it only states you cannot take transports that don't fit everyone in, so you could still take a blackstar
and that is rubbish - tell me how you can take anything other than a HTH??
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:01

A HTH states that “Any Veteran may replace his WEAPONS with a heavy thunder hammer”

A Storm Shield is listed as Special Issue Wargear. It is not considered a weapon. So replace one thing with SS, then take the HTH upgrade

Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:02
in the Veteran entry it says, "Any model may replace either his boltgun or close combat weapon with a storm shield" so he does not have weaponS to replace with a HTH
so, although I take your point, that is gash
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:03
They explain this faq
Q: Can a single model equipped with a heavy thunder hammer
and a storm shield use both in combat?
A: Yes.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:04
yes, I swa that, how did the model get both in the first place?
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:04
per this fan, i can take both
faq*
i beleive the line of thought here is that the “weapons” word refers to just what weapons the model has, ie any weapons.
not 2+ weapons
because standard a vet has 2 weapons
after replacing one with the SS, he only has 1 weapon
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:05
I think that is just a bit silly... but then again, heavy weapon carrying veterans is a bit silly but still apparently legal... what makes it even more odd is that shotgun/boltgun veterans have been nerfed
*HW + SS
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:06
yeah, its retarded that both the heavy weapon/ss and boltgun/shotgun rulings are there
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:06
especially when you consider that the HTH is specifically listed as a two-handed weapon in its profile...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:06
they contradict eachother
i mean, SM can do relic blade and SS, correct?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:07
when can we expect a errata for the FAQ?
idk, I don't play SM
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:07
lol, a few months? or 8th ed
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:07
hahaha!!
also, what are the Deathwatch psychic powers?? I've never heard of them before
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:07
rumor is heavily hinted that 8th is Q2 this year
didnt overkill come out before angels of death that added the 4 new disciplines
if so, then <insert libby name> can now take from the new 4 instead of just the brb ones
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:12
righto, I thought there was a table in the codex that had been updated and I'd missed it or something..
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:12
no
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:12
also, HA! no HTH weilding Black Shields...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:13
yeah, they 180ed on everything like that. apothecaries, dw vet sgts, black shields
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:14
there will be a number of people crying tears into their cheese beards...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:14
it set the presidance in stone for all upgraded model within units. even though the black shield is on the veterans datasheet, it is not called a verteran because it has the black shield profile
same goes for apothecary, dw vet sgt, etc...
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:15
which is the way I read it from the start...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:16
i read it the other way. i.e. the black shield is a veteran because it is on the VETERAN datasheet
but now we have clarification for everything
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:18
uhuh... apart from the fact that you can take an Aquila KT with a libby and have a razorback DT... or pretty much any combination of models and a Corvus DT
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:18
so this question
Q: Can the individual characters from Kill Team Cassius be
used in other Deathwatch units or Formations?
A: No, but they can be included in detachments where,
for example, any Deathwatch HQ unit could be selected.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:18
you just definitely cannot take a Razorback for a KT that includes Terminators
yah, I think they were referring specifically to Jensus and Cassius
because the rest are not IC's
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:19
so i can select a CAD and take anyone from KTC for an HQ choice?
but the question never states anything about ICs or those two ICs specifically
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:20
well, that is how their answer appears, but the individual dudes in KTC have profiles of their own
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:20
just the individual characters themselves
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:20
there is no precedence that states you can take a fast attack choice as a HQ
and, e.g. Edryx (twin lignting claw vanguard dude) is an Elites choice
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:21
no, but the answer states i can take any character in a detachment that alowes HQ choices
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:21
uhuh... which is incomplete in my opinon
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:22
hmm, i dont have the KTC data sheet. do you?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:23
a moment, I have it somewwhere
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:23
nvm, found it
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:24
only cassius and nartorian have the HQ type
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:26
it says "in example”. So i would then have to say that each chatacter can be includes in a deatchment that has it’s associated battlefield role. ie you can take antor as an elite chjoise
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:27
well yes, obviously, what would prevent you from doing that in the first place??
he is a unit with a datasheet, rules and points...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:28
they only became faction deathwatch officially from this FAQ. so technically, now you can
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:28
except, he is not an IC, so you cannot include him in a unit of Vanguard vets
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:28
yeah
only the HQs are ICs
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:29
and they've always been Faction: Deathwatch - the icon at the top of the datasheets is exactly the same as the one in the Deathwatch Codex
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:30
I know
i wouldnt have a problem with it
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:30
honestly, sometimes the questions people ask beggar belief...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:31
but thats what you get from stupid ppl, and ppl bending the rules as far as they can go
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:31
uhuh
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 21:31
but TH/SS/Cyclone is a thing now.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:31
because of course, KTC became Deathwatch Faction as soon as the Codex was released
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 21:31
HA!
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:32
yes, it always has been
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:32
lol, yeah, but it always has been
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 21:32
you guys were trying to tell me it wasnt.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:32
i didnt. i even set up the file so you could take both
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:32
when, what?
technically you can have a cyclone any any weapon load you like
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:33
i redact my statement. i set it up the opposite
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 21:33
i distinctly remember a few weeks ago i was mentioning it, and you guys were saying since Deathwing can't, deathwatch can't either.
see?
told you.
i was all gung-ho about it and you two shut me down lol
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:34
maybe i was in the you can boat, but was conviced otherwise
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:34
I remember the conversation, but I don't think I came down either way... looking at the codex now it is pretty clear, I just assumed flak had a good reason to set it up the way he did...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:34
"may replace weapons"
cyclone is a weapon
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:35
easy no, open the codex ;-)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 21:35
but faq says you can now.
:P
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:35
yreah
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:35
"Any model may choose one of the following:" -"Take a Cyclone Missile Launcher"
it doesn't say he has to replace anything to get one
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:35
“Any model may replace his weapons with one of the following:
Two lightning claws.................................................................................................free
Thunder hammer and storm shield (pg 107)............................................10 pts/mode”
it was the same argument as hth/ss
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:36
yup, so, per the HTH + SS discussion, he can have both TH + SS and a cyclone
if you're really indecisive and want to spend 75 points on one model...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:37
well, they are two differant arguments now. the faq just states you can swap for th/ss or lcs and take a cml afterwards
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:40
well, he can swap his original weaponS for a TH + SS, then take a Cyclone
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:41
thats what i said
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:41
same as HTH man swaps a weapon for a SS and then whatever he has left for a HTH
but anyway :-) that measn the CAT needs changing :-)
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:41
well, the SS isnt a weapon, so he doesnt lose it regardless
i think im going to have to do a minor rework on the vets weapons structure now
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:44
how comes?
probably the best thing to do is move the DW Vet w/ HW into the main Veteran entry and then include the HW list
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 21:45
i't not indecicive @FarseerVeraenthis, it's called ranged support untill you get into cc
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:45
terrible focus for a model tho
i guess if you want 3++ CML termies tho
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 21:46
biggest issue cc termies have off deepstrike - they sit there do nothing for a turn. adding cyclone negates that a bit.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:46
yah, that's 75 points for a one wound model.. granted he has terminator armour but in an army where every model counts you'd be better off focussing and spending the points elsehwere...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:46
^
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 21:46
we agree to disagree.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:47
you DS 5 TH/SS im assuming one will die before i get them in combat
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:47
nah, I understand you point exactly, and it is reasonable, but it is a lot of points...
if you take two terminators with TH + SS + CML you could have a dreadnought
with points to spare
for a drop pod
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:49
i also have no way of restricting heavy weapon vets to 4 is i combine the profiles
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:49
uhuh, I thought about that after I'd written my message
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:49
lol
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:51
;-)
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:51
i realized i just have to constrain the weapon lists to 0 is HTH is picked, no restrucuring
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 21:52
oiii - so many things to paint
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:53
you're not wrong thre
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:53
you? looks at 30 mkiv marines, 10 tartaros termies, 3 exalted sorcerers, 2 ahrimans, magnus, 5 occult termies, 10 rubrics, and 2 morghast im using as demon princes
That's my painting table
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:55
you need a better painting station
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:55
its tricky to paint and type at the same time...
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 21:55
It's functional
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:56
I'm currently building a venerable dreadnought...
WOW! that is proper dedication...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:56
some consider mine lacking
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 21:57
I don't know what they'd say about mine then...
(it packs away into a bookcase)
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 21:58
i just dont have any fancy paint racks or anything
what i have is fine really
i purchased the GW project box and I love it. so...
hold everything
if you have the space, that desk is like $35 from ikea
lamps are $8 + blubs
i just realised a veteran can take 2 special weapons O.o
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 22:01
really...?
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 22:01
replace ccw for boltgun, he now has 2 boltguns. special weapons only replace boltguns
replace both boltguns for special weapons
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 22:02
if he cannot have boltgun and shotgun then no. because the way you arrive at the loadout is to exchange a boltgun for a special weapon, and then your CCW for a boltgun
if BG/SG is out, 2 x Special wepon is out
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 22:03
the faq only states they cannot have boltgun/shotgun, nothing else
i can take storm bolter/shotgun
or combi/shotgun
im not reading the FAQ as RAI, but RAW as most people will
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 22:04
storm bolter shotgun is legal, so is combi/shot - neither storm bolter or combi weapons are special weapons
I hate the cheese, it is one of the most tedious things about this hobby...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 22:06
i understand, and dont normally do these things unless both i and my opponent understand the game we want to play. but most ppl again are going to read RAW
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 22:08
I would suggest leaving it as one special weapon until someone bug erps
(shotgun/stalker anyone??)
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 22:11
i was running boltgun/stalker in KT games
5 of them and one missile launcher/boltgun
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 22:12
but that's not really that cheesy, and obviously legal...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 22:13
but its the same thing as taking boltgun/shotgun. i have to do the same process to take both
replace ccw with boltgun. replace 1 of 2 boltguns with special weapon
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 22:14
no you don't, one swap for each. to get two x special weapons you have to swap one weapon twice <-- that is cheesey
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 22:14
cheesey but legal. idc if you want to play that way or not, im here to enforce what you can and cannot do legally
all of use are here to ensure what are maintained catalogs are able to do what we LEGALLY can or cannot do per RAW
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 22:16
sorry... you said 2 x special weapons. Those being, Shotgun, Stalker, Flamer, Melta, Grav, Plasma. to get two weapons from that list you have to change one weapon twice, which in my opinion is not correct. the other options you have suggested only require a single swap of each weapon...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 22:17
but nowhere is a verteran model restricted in taking two special weapons
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 22:18
and you're correct. but imo that is a step too far on the cheese board, and since it requires a change to the CAT, leave it as it is an wait for a Bug Rep
(save yourself the effort)
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 22:19
im changing it anyway already
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 22:20
super :-)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 22:20
#3282 - isn't that the low memory bug?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 22:23
I don't know about anyone else, but my Android version is 2.00.23...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 22:23
im about to head out for work, but still working on DW. PLease noone else work on it till you ask me.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 22:24
oh, I just sync'ed some changes...
(jk)
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 22:41

…i always for get the types a page break
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 22:43
hehehe :-) and yes, the onjly changes I sync'd were before you got started
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 20 2017 22:44
&tableflip;
i mean. thats cool
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 22:45
:cool:
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 22:51
@alphalas is that DFtS bug in the GST??
(Air Superiority Detachment)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 20 2017 22:53
No it's in cat probably
I got it
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 22:54
super, I just remembered one of the Space Wolves bug reps had a comment about the Air Superiority detachment...
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 20 2017 23:16
right, sleepy time, my dread is done and I've built his extra weapons as well so I think that's a good day :-)