These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

15th
Feb 2017
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 00:19
@Kohato do you want me to comment on entries that are completely missing?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 00:21
like what?
but sure
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 00:21
like formations in the reborn warhost
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 00:22
O.o they should be
yea let me know which are missing
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 00:22
cool
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 00:35
There's what I found in the eldar section.
I'll take a look at harleys tomorrow.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 00:36
Cool, thanks!
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 03:34
JON'S FIXING THE BIG BUG!
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 04:00
Which one?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 04:01
Cadia
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 04:14
Whichone
Cross Cat Linking?
Or just the basic conditional bug that's been around forever :smile:
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Feb 15 2017 08:56
Condition on modifier in min/max in roster failing totally
46 votes
Started: Thanks, I’ll look into it! Time for a bug hunt I think…
that means we can implement cadia via my entry as cost solution
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 10:17
Is there a good reason behind Max 1 formation in the formation detachment?
I understand it from a rules perspective; each formation is a separate detachment.
But is it not going to cause performance issues in the larger CATs?
zopha
@zopha
Feb 15 2017 11:06
Cadian Gate wallpaper from GS1 -http://imgur.com/UPqUcxl
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 12:01
@GenWilhelm Just rules really - I swapped it in response to another bug someone put in asking about it - realized we didn't have it set for some reason.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 12:05
Yeah, I agree it should be there for correctness, but a number of the CATs fail to load if you add multiple formation detachments.
Perhaps this is something we should raise with Jon.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 12:06
What, "Java is a piece of shit"?
Fair though - I'll swap it back later today
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 12:10
Well yeah Java is notoriously bad, but surely there must be something wrong for it to hang when doing 2x of something that works fine by itself
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 12:10
Uneducated guess, Each force loads an instance of the cat file.
Each force parses the whole xml file, so a more compliated one could cause issues with too many instances open at once
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 12:59
Well ... shi
I imagine it'll be FAQd or something but until then ... I guess we need to re-do cadia relics ... again?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 13:05
oh boy, that's not the answer we needed
is there any reason we cant put validation in the gst?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 13:08
Oh we can, I think that's the best way to do it
All 3 are already in GST
make a shared entry group for the relics - hide unless roster contains 1 of the three
Then just link it to "Other" or "No Battlefield Role" in each cat.
No validation past that
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 13:11
Maybe put a rule in there describing the whole "one model that may normally take a relic may instead take one of these"?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Feb 15 2017 13:11
why tho?
Current implemenation is hide, show if char is present
that is something every cat can do.. out them into your relics and done
validation needs to be done on cat basis because its different for everyone
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 13:12
Why? They're legal if the character is in the army
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Feb 15 2017 13:12
if you did your relics "right" it won't raise a single issue (except the replace weapon, but thats again cat)
yes
I dont get the problem
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 13:12
and there is a legal way to get them in every cat.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Feb 15 2017 13:12
so?
so every cat needs to do what imperial cats had to do
unless your normalize every relic in ever cat to a specific format there is nothing you can do
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 13:13
Fair enough I guess, then every cat now needs work for the cadia relics that hasn't had it done yet.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Feb 15 2017 13:13
which is actually pretty easy
like 5 minutes tops
however - are tau signature systems relics? leans back and grabs popcorn
Round 1 - fight!
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 13:16
No, but they are similar.
So they count per cadia.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 13:25
So can you take sig systems and a relic on the same model?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 13:25
cringe RAW, yes.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 13:26
I love the smell of cheddar in the morning
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Feb 15 2017 13:26
since signature systems are not relics as you said you cannot take relics from cadia.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 13:27
That's what I figured allowed it on tau
blob
That said, i'm 100% fine excluding it from tau
because this is gouda of the finest order.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Feb 15 2017 13:28
it's debatable and not at all clear... GW rules writing.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 13:28
Yep. I hate it
zopha
@zopha
Feb 15 2017 13:29
Just roll a dice to decide... :p
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Feb 15 2017 13:29
or add a RAI warning
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 13:29
I'll add cadia relics to ynnari in my first 2.0 update for it
for now, base catalog without the side of bleu.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Feb 15 2017 13:29
but keep it in mind to prevent later headaches
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 13:35
Has anyone reported the nested groups bug?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 13:35
Regarding the checkbox vs radio box?
I don't think so?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 13:35
yeah
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 13:56
Hey @GenWilhelm What's cumbersome about windriders? I have the weapons selection set on the bike at the moment to save lines
Think it'd be better just on the windrider entries themselves?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 13:58
Its mostly for mobile users. They have to go Unit > Model > Jetbike > Weapon Group just to see the options
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 13:59
Fair enough - It's only 2 units that use that jetbike, I'll make weapon entries on the model for them instead
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 14:01
In other news...
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 14:01
"Black Guardian Units - Should have Eldar faction?"
I'm not too clear on what you mean here
I mean, besides the obvious that they're eldar.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 14:01
they have a (Y) in their entry name
cult.png
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 14:02
Ahhh
I did that mostly to reference the Source.
but that's a good point, I didn't think of that
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 14:02
ah, fair enough
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 14:02
E makes more sense though - I'll change it
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 14:26
@GenWilhelm Mind checking out this on moblie when you get a chance?
I brought the bike weapons to the top level, so this should help?
Tap Unit > Model > Choose Weapon
It also has all the fixed from #3402 :)
Also - opinion question
Are Flyer Wings allowed in a reborn warhost?
I'm leaning no because they're not listed in the unit listings.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 14:30
is the base unit listed under fast attack?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 14:31
I think so, i don't have DFTS handy
I think the wings are't upgrades, but actual slots that the single model is.
If that's the case, It'd be a no ... right?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 14:32
flyer wings are an upgrade to the single model
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 14:32
So here's a question: is it time that we finally start setting STC's for units relics all that shit?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 14:32
I'll go double check for you
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 14:32
Oh so they are upgrades
If they're upgrades, I'd say yea ... if they're separate entries, then no is what i'd say
STC?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 14:34
dfts_razorwing.png
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 14:35
I assume Crimson Hunters, Hemlock Wraithfighters, Voidraven Bombers are in there as well?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 14:35
yep, all three have the same
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 14:36
no need for screens, it's just the same model cost, max of 4 total for each I know.
Alright, i'll include that
Thanks! I wasn't sure if they were a part of the unit or just a separate item.
(They will be a separate item in the cat file for simplicity, but that just means they're allowed in the Reborn)
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 14:37
yeah, i think thats how most cats have flyer wings implemented
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 14:37
STC - standard template construct
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 14:37
Yea, that's how Cartag started doing it, so I copied him in SM, and that just became the norm.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 14:37
Yey fluff reference making sense irl
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 14:38
I'm still not following alpha
You mean shared relic groups in GST?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 14:39
As in we standardize how relics are implemented in the cats – and make a standard entry style.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 14:39
I think he means having a standard way to implement relics across the board
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 14:41
And then publish the blank example so that people know how to implement it in new cats
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 14:42
I've been barking up the standardization tree since I started here.
I'd be in full support of a standard model for cat layout and format, but relics are a tricky bitch to standardize
I think we're getting closer though
Many of the authors used to abhor the idea of detailed rules.
As if only partially plagerising a codex was fine.
That changed with 2.0 when we just forced detailed rules on everybody in the GST.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 14:46
If somebody could set up a standard template I would totally use the shit out of that especially for a project like talons for 30 K
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 14:47
In 100% honesty, KDK.
I'd say SM, but that's just a complex shitshow to be used as a template.
How Cartag laid out 2.0 KDK and CSM is how i've done all my work since.
Dammit ... @GenWilhelm do you still have DFTS up?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 14:49
yeah, whats up?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 14:49
I realized I need the pursuit/agi/roll for the other 3 fightsers
*Fighters
*Role
not roll
I'm sure they can all roll just fine in the fluff.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 14:52
Voidraven - Bomber, P5, A4
Crimson Hunter - Fighter, P5, A5
Hemlock Wraithfighter - Attack Flyer, P5, A4
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 14:52
tyvm
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Feb 15 2017 15:14
well to be fair with old GW and their lawyer squad I kind of understood that notion...
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 15:22
What, that half plagerism would go un-noticed?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Feb 15 2017 15:23
is paraphrasing covered by copyright law?
especially in a rule set?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 15:23
How do you paraphrase statblocks
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Feb 15 2017 15:23
if you copy 1:1 definately. If you change the wording...?
I'm rather thinking things like "Furious Charge" and all that shtick
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 15:24
Ah, yes - if that were it, but then - we still always had 1:1 copy of unit stats
So we're back to, lets just half copy this and it's fine.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Feb 15 2017 15:24
true
its still less likely that you can play the game if you know what WS 4 is instead of what ATSKNF means
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 15:26
True, you need all the information in some form to play
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Feb 15 2017 15:26
and key rules carry way more information that youc annot figure out for yourself, so a "4" is less offensive than an entire written text that you copy 1:1
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 15:27
Somehow I doubt that'd float for a lawyer who really cared about stopping this repo. All the information is taken from published material and is required to play the game.
You can't play a space marine without knowing its statline just the same as knowing what ATSKNF is.
Which is what you pay for a codex for (along with some kickass art and story)
Statlines, rule definitions, and organization charts.
We used to publish 2 of those 3 - for some reason, thinking two out of three ain't bad (I'm so so sorry, i'll see myself out)
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Feb 15 2017 15:29
I think I'm missing some horrible HORRIBLE pun right now...
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 15:30
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Feb 15 2017 15:31
Ah
Yes. It's kinda hard not to see that one now. Heh.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 15:32
One of my favorites for 70s rock and roll
We just pretend the albums AFTER bat out of hell don't exist.
Wow, GW really flubbed the first digital edition of the craftworlds codex
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 15:35
Yeah everything after bat out of hell when he lost weight. Otherwise awesome
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 15:35
blob
Paradise By the Dashboard lights is still hands down my favorite duet of all time.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 15:37
I think the one point that you're missing from my point @Kohato is that pointing Somebody at a cat and saying here copy this isn't the best option. We really should have a template for people to follow.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 15:37
Oh no, I'd agree entirely
I'm saying we make it from KDK
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 15:44
So apparently that youtube video is the start of a playlist of Bat out of Hell, So I have no issues with leaving it up.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 15:47
Completely off-topic but that slow theme from Star Wars that starts with the seven note progression; is that the rebels theme?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 15:47
The Imperial March?
If that's it, no - that is the opposite of what the rebels want to hear.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 15:53
no it's the real slow one - it's what they featured at the I forget if it was the beginning or the end of the rogue one teaser from last year
The theme at the very end of this trailer
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 16:18
I think that's just example of John Williams being a magnificent bastard and weaving his themes all throughout all the music - it's got the theme I'm thinking of in it but it's not in the theme itself
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 16:18
I'm in a meeting now - i'll check your clip and see what I can find :)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 16:18
:+1:
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 16:34
Ahhhhhh that one
I'm not really sure if it has a name, let me dig around
Zopha is right
It is the Jedi Theme
Not really sure where the one zopha l inked came from - definately not the original
zopha
@zopha
Feb 15 2017 16:36
Pretty sure I've heard it used in games, is it from a New Hope?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 16:37
Oh yea - that's 100% what it is, just the first one you linked was a very odd mix of it
Dammit, now I want to see rogue one again
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 16:56
So it's The force team, which is why it's woven throughout out the Jedi theme which is what is @zopha linked first
zopha
@zopha
Feb 15 2017 17:21
Just changing the subject... Appspot. Does anyone know how to fix it if something is broken or is it just wait for the Machine Spirits anger to fade? Pushed a release earlier that had a .gstz file in it and now the Heresy bsi is presending a 500 error.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 17:22
@amis92 is the one with the knowledge of appspot.
I know nothing
zopha
@zopha
Feb 15 2017 17:23
I've pushed a release without the gstz so hoping it will pick up that new release at some stage.
Thanks! I'll check with him.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 17:25
appspot pulls every 6 hours, so in about 4 hours time
zopha
@zopha
Feb 15 2017 17:26
I think it pushed that update around 13:30 gmt. so it might update around 19:30 gmt?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 17:27
zopha
@zopha
Feb 15 2017 17:28
yeah, the same time on facebook but I seen the update on the appspot page earlier than that.
I assumed the announcement part lagged behind release a little.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 17:28
i'm not sure what the delay is between appspot updating and the social media posts, but i cant image it's huge
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 17:37
He reported in the 30K Gitter at 8:30 local the issue - so by that rationale it should pick up about 15:00 local, 20:00gmt?
Yes I'm EST, gmt-5
So I think his rationale of 1930 or 2000gmt is probably right about correct when appspot will pick up again
So pretty much if it still screwed up when I get out of work at 1530 EST then we know it's a bigger issue
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 18:10
@Kohato why did you assign me to that?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 18:11
Amis likes things to have asignees and labels :)
You closed it, so I just assigned it to you
You'll notice he goes through and mass assigns/lables things every now and then - was just trying to save him a bit of work
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 18:15
Ah fair
Because I was about to say you better not start assigning me tau shit - I have enough problems as it is
just because I play the race doesn't mean I want to deal with the cat. :p
I was just a blatant read your damn codex moment
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 18:32
Hey, I play neither Eldar nor SM and I'm working on those lol
I play Necrons mostly, and that cat is one of the few that has almost no issues.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 18:33
same, R&H is the only faction I look after that I have actually played
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Feb 15 2017 18:38
Just about Cadia relic validation, I am sorry to say that I didn't do the validation in the first place, so any changes to how it is implemented will not have any effect on those cat's... (noted on the bug report)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 18:38
Add it to the list of fuck cadia.
It's a pretty long list
but there's still room
zopha
@zopha
Feb 15 2017 18:47
Might be me on a train but is appspot working for anyone? I can't see any of the other catalogues.
That's a creepy as shit wraithlord.
And its all the face.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 18:57
@zopha looks like appspot has reached its limit
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 19:02
That's badass
I converted my gf's wraithlord to be crouching carrying it's brightlance like a rifle with the ghostglaive as a bayonet
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 19:03
Oh that's cool
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 19:04
Yeah wasn't hard either
Was thinking about adding scorpion dreads to it but at that point in time I didn't really feel up to that ambitious a sculpt
I actually play or have played at one time all the cats I maintain
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 19:09
looks at the list of cats I maintain damn I have a problem
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 19:16
you've played every flavour of AM? :P
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 19:33
So, here's a conundrum
blob
This formation entry has min/max 3 Guardian defenders - but for some reason lets me add more (brings up an error rightly though)
blob
This formation entry has min/max 3 windriders - no option to add more.
Only thing I can think of is the guardian defenders entry has a choice of adding a support battery
nope that's not it :/
zopha
@zopha
Feb 15 2017 19:37
Does the
Windrider entry have a modifier to hide the entry when you hit 3?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 19:38
Not a big deal, it's validated either way - just an odd little quirk
Nope, just min3max10
Guardians are min10max20
blob
Something with the storm guardian unit, just can't figure out what
*Guardian defenders
Acutally no, it happens with storm guardians too
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 19:46
It's just another BS bug -.-
In the windrider host, If I add a single windrider to the unit of 3, I can then delete the whole unit, and make th ebutton show at the top
But I can't delete the unit until I add 1 to the unit of 3. It's odd.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 19:53
@GenWilhelm yeah at one point or another
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 20:06
I'm proud of myself.
I figured out how to validate The seer council's restriction of all or no jetbikes that increase in cost per model. Eat that Craftworlds cat file :p
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 15 2017 20:33
Lol
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 15 2017 21:01
Took a bit longer than id've liked - but @GenWilhelm I have eldar completely done if you wouldn't mind taking a look while I start DE
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 15 2017 23:03
That's all I've got for the eldar units.
couldnt find anything wrong with the clowns