These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

25th
May 2017
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 05:20
Interesting choice by GW... does it make that much difference actually using them? Will units that need them only lose one wound at a time...?
But good info :-)
:+1:
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 25 2017 09:10
Guys, I'm going to buy both Imperium books at launch - if there's any "orphan" CAT I'd be glad to work on it :)
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 09:44
well unless you now the standard layout of a d10, d12 and d20 by heart, you'll have to pick up the dice and search for the number you need each time you take damage
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 09:45
Yeah - which is kinda weird
They are really nice though
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 09:45
especially since theyre marketing them as counters rather than dice
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 09:46
Have you had a fondle or just looking?
And @Crowbar90 we're going to have a register in a couple of weeks for new CAT authors
I wonder if / when the leaks will come out...
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 09:51
hmmm, not sure. part of me says we're pretty much guaranteed to see at least one of the books get leaked, but then at the same time GW are probably wanting to keep as much of it as they can under control since its such a big release
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 09:51
on the subject of wound trackers, the AOS D10 ones seem to be odds on one side evens on the other; https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Wound-Trackers
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 09:52
I have a set of the red/white ones
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 09:53
and I hear what you're saying, but those managers on the video look to have received a copy of the rulebook for themselves, I can't believe everyone will keep them far enough under wraps that nothing seeps out...
if the WH40K ones were like that I think that would be fine... how do your ones works out
??
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 09:54
I'll check next time I get downstairs
Sick for past 2 days - strep is a bitch
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 09:55
yah, take it easy, being ill is bad news!
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 09:56
i think thats the standard way to do d10s. never really played a d10 game so ive never taken a close look
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 09:56
But I meant, have you used them for AOS, and how do they work in real life? The ones in the box on the release page look a similar arrangement...
oh yeah, good point, I might have a couple lurking at home from previous gaming adventures, I'll try to check when I finish work
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 09:57
and take my energy ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ @alphalas
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 10:01
Thanks @GenWilhelm - I wish that actually worked
You know it's bad when you'd rather spit out your own saliva then swallow it
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 25 2017 10:03
@FarseerVeraenthis Ok great. I'll keep checking the chat then, if I can get my hands on the books early I'll let you all know.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 10:03
yeah, that doesn't sound like fun to me...
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 10:05
Yeah it's not
After a cursory glance at the chessex website I think all d10s are odds on one side, evens on the other
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 10:06
@Crowbar90 previously stated regarding the coming drama by Kohato:
"In a week or two, we do a role call to see who will be doing 8th ed conversions with us at the start.
After we get our names, we divy up cats/factions
after that, we set standards to follow"
and I see that too, although, a Google image search would suggest they don't necessarily HAVE to be that way
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 25 2017 10:07
Great, thank you! Somehow I missed that message
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 10:13
According to the wiki, that's industry standard
And apparently the sides on the opposing caps are supposed to add up to 9
So the 7 and the 2 will be on opposed sides of the dice, etc
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 10:16
thats fair unless you use the 0 face as a 10 :P
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 10:21
Well either way the 0 and 9 would be opposed :p
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 10:23
if you replace the 0 with a 10, then opposing sides should add up to 11
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 25 2017 10:25
Opposite sides should add up to one more than the d# usually
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 10:42
That's the same configuration as a D6, so kinda makes sense :+1:
I might have to get some more markers and switch to using them to count down rather than counting up...
otherwise there could be dice everywhere!
although, how does it work in AoS??
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 10:46
i think the damage tables in AoS are for the amount of damage taken, rather than the number of wounds remaining. so i would imagine people count up the damage, rather than count down the wounds
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 10:50
righto, that's a good point actually, can I ask a silly question about damage...
say a weapon is Heavy D3, Damage 5. First, you roll a D3 to determine how many shots are fired, you roll those dice to see how many hit, does each hit cause 5 damage rolls that then need to roll To Wound, or do you roll as many To wound rolls as you score Hits, and then multiply the Wounds by the damage?
so, e.g. 3 shots // 3 hits // 3 wounds // 15 damage, OR 3 shots // 3 hits // 15 To Wound rolls ??
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 10:54
roll to hit, roll to wound, roll saves, multiply by damage, roll for "FNP"
so each hit rolls to wound once, each wound gets a single save to prevent it, each unsaved wound applies the weapon's damage to the allocated model, then the model gets to make any other attempts to prevent each point of damage
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 11:30
righto, so those multi-damage weapons are actually pretty nasty!
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 11:32
very good against multi-wound models, overkill against single-wound dudes
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 11:36
yah, I was just trying to complete my understanding of all the crying about the Grav-flux bombard on the leviathan yesterday, people saying it could kill wraithknights in one go and so on
there is definitely going to be more death in the new edition
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 11:37
as i see, thats where the D3 shots with 5 damage came from :P
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 11:37
;-)
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 11:38
yeah, if you roll Heavy 3, then hit 3 times, wound 3 times and it fails 3 invulns, it would suffer 15 damage
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 11:41
Which really seems right to me
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 11:41
which is pretty nasty, but fairly unlikely that you'd be that lucky/unluck
That's what it use to be lol
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 11:52
i just realised i overlooked the range - 18"
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 11:52
righto, so that's completely changed from a weapon that's most effective against squads to more of a titan killer
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 11:52
the new version gets more shots if you shoot it at a large unit
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 11:53
yer, I wrote that and then re-read the datasheet...
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 11:53
Well the old was a Lg Blast that was difficult/dangerous
Ap2 and ignores cover - explains why rend -5
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 11:54
uhuh, but surely it could only do one wound against, e.g. a wraithknight?
(previously!)
so the effectiveness has been increased massively on that front
hence some of the crying
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 11:55
yeah, and rolling 8 or less on 2d6 is quite easy
roughly 2 in 3 iirc
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 11:56
However, that was the inherent strength of GMC vs AV
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 11:56
uhuh, now I get it :-)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 11:56
Now that AV isn't a thing, it's just gotta be better to be able to fill the same role
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 12:00
what was its role before though? against high toughness you'll struggle to wound and you'll only do one wound anyway, against AV's you'll struggle to wound and do 2 HP damage... so previously it was only really "good" against large units??
in other news, how are we planning on implementing the effects of battle damage in BS?? i.e. the change in Move, WS and BS..?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 12:02
i was wondering this too, theres probably a clean way to do it but i cant think of one right now
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 12:25
I can't think of a situation where that sort of thing happens in WH40K now... surely there must be an example across a different game system though?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 12:28
We don't
We just give the basics, leave it up to the users to need the wound info
I'm pretty sure that's how AoS does it
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 13:01
fab, thanks for the update :smile:
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 25 2017 13:23
The first idea I had for battle damage was to simply write all the values, it shouldn't be too hard to understand it when you have the list printed out... I'll attach a screenshot to explain it better
Schermata da 2017-05-25 15-20-36.png
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 13:26
hmmm... that doesn't look very lovely to me
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 25 2017 13:26
With proper table formatting (like the one Battlescribe does in its report) I think it would be pretty practical (and easy for us to put in the files)
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 25 2017 13:27
The only better option I can think of is adding another table, like it's done in the official datasheets, but I'm not sure if Battlescribe can do it
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 13:27
That's what AoS does currently
cartag
@cartag
May 25 2017 13:27
I made it look nice in AoS when I was messing around with it, I'll try to post this evening
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 13:27
I just posted the carni table @cartag
cartag
@cartag
May 25 2017 13:28
Nm lol
I see that now, you posted as I was typing
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 25 2017 13:28
Oh wow, I didn't think it was possible. Looks like that's the best way then
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 13:28
:+1:
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 13:29
I knew we didn't need to re-invent the wheel :smile:
:shipit:
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 25 2017 13:31
Yeah, that's a relief!
What about keywords? Can they be used reliably in listbuilding? I don't have much experience in AoS datafiles
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 13:32
In the alpha yes
That's exactly why Jon is putting out the alpha for us - because we need keywords lol
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 25 2017 13:33
Haha great! Thanks Jon!
So once 8th edition drops we'll all jump on the alphatrain
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 13:34
AoS was kinda jerry-rigged to make it work, but not well
Well the plan is alpha will become 2.1 before 8e drops
So we're already trying to get ahead of the 8 ball
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 13:37
and we need a lot of details on how list building works in the new edition before we can put a game system together, so if we dont get any leaks we will be starting work on launch day at the earliest
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 25 2017 13:40
Yeah, that's right. I may receive my rulebook and indexes before launch day, but nothing is certain of course
If it happens, you'll be the first ones to know :)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 13:52
:+1:
If they do put them out as ePubs, I'll try to get them and put them up on my Dropbox as usual
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 13:55
:+1: @Crowbar90 how will you get them early?
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 25 2017 13:58
@FarseerVeraenthis The dealer I'm buying them from has said he will probably receive them 1 or 2 weeks before release date and that he's going to ship them as soon as he gets them. If it's true it means I may have them about 10 days before official release.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 13:59
sounds a bit naughty but I'll not complain :smile:
depends how cute GW are going to be that nothing will be released to anyone until the release date
which, tbh, is unlikely because there are already odd bits of information here and there...!
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 25 2017 14:03
Haha I know, but I'm not complaining either! Obviously I won't complain even if I have to wait just like anyone else :)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 14:18
Ohh! Table quarters is back
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 14:21
really..? what am I not reading correctly... looks like a half/half split
also, no Ob Sec in that mission - most models within 3"
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 14:22
I love this, it's basically everything from 4e/5e that was scalped out in 6
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 25 2017 14:22
Good.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 14:22
scroll down simon, its one of the matched play deployments
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 25 2017 14:22
Obsec was retarded
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 14:23
The deployment map at the bottom - you deploy in one quarter of the table, 9" away from center
That's straight out of 4e/5e
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 25 2017 14:23
I'd of course love anyone who gets digital on Dropbox. As per the norm :p
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 14:23
I missed that deployment
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 25 2017 14:24
Easier deployment for multiplayer too that way
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 14:24
The new orders stratagem is great too
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 25 2017 14:24
Also by the by. Security jobs are boring as shit.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 14:25
ok, got it, I am in the slow reading group :-P
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 14:25
No shit lol
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 14:25
I'm just very thorough ;-)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 14:25
Also cool to see that under strength from AoS transfered over
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 14:26
is that the Underdog thing?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 14:27
No the second paragraph in the army
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 14:27
means you can bring understrength units - i.e. have less models on the table than the minimum required
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 14:28
ah right, i get you
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 14:28
yup, in my opinion, that snippet of information gets a :+1: from me :-)
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 14:29
i'm excited to play narrative now :D
seeing power level be used for more than just army buiding
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 14:31
I'm actually thinking I might play more narrative then matched, tbh
Especially if FW keeps HH heavily narrative based when it goes to 8e
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 14:33
i'm getting that feeling from a lot of people. depends what the advanced rules add to matched play though
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 14:40
I currently try to spin some fluff onto the missions, a kinda "why would my army be fighting your army" skit before starting a battle... but yeah, I play for fun, so if narrative makes things more fun then I'm all for it :-)
LOTSA GOOD STUFF 'APPIN' 'ERE BOSS
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 15:48
ORKS ORKS ORKS ORKS!
Ld30 mobs, 3w mega nobs
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 25 2017 15:50
WAAAGH! only applies within 6" of the Warboss
wat
oh, maybe its a constant effect rather than only a single turn
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 16:38
No more - stars... But you will see ork characters grouped together in the middle of a load of boys....
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 16:44
All I can hear is crying from the Internet "orks are so OP now"
Perhaps...
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 25 2017 17:27
they should be
I mean, come on, they're the bane of the imperium
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 25 2017 17:28
But they want chaos as the focus again vs imperium
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 25 2017 17:28
Yeah, the rules sound fun :-)