These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

31st
May 2017
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 01:33
Comfortable that the T'au Empire catalogue is done. Please feel free to tear the PR apart and tell me where my formatting and conventions are awful. It's my first attempt at it outside of making datafiles for SWA before official ones were released.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 02:10
@Thairne hey pops! https://m.imgur.com/a/tjmtr
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 02:20
Good Job @Bitjump. Way to be pro-active.
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 03:03
Thanks!
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
May 31 2017 03:53
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 03:54
Grey Knights are on /TG/ if you want to wade through it. http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/53522244#p53522552
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
May 31 2017 03:55
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 03:57
Gak! I hate mechanics where you've got to explain the rules to your opponent, and wait on them before you can do something. Cult Ambush isn't as bad as the minigame you have to play every time you shoot a bubblechucka, but it's still annoying.
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
May 31 2017 03:58
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 04:01
Leaks are coming thick and fast suddenly.
cartag
@cartag
May 31 2017 04:01
I love it
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 04:02
ok. compiling GK to imgur
cartag
@cartag
May 31 2017 04:03
latest GST is up
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 04:04
tau is also in that /tg thread. idk how much tau yall have already
cartag
@cartag
May 31 2017 04:07
I'm gonna be going to bed soon, if there are any Chaos leaks can you @ me so I can see them?
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 04:07
prob wont be me as im headed to bed soon myself :p
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
May 31 2017 04:08
that canhammer instagram account has more stuff too, some Eldar and Necrons in English
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 04:11
I just noticed a subtle thing. we've been assuming points costs are the same for all wargear from army to army. Apparently not, because GSC Autocannons cost less than Chaos Autocannons.
cartag
@cartag
May 31 2017 04:11
screenshots?
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
May 31 2017 04:13
some wargear is different in between units, like some tyranid guns
cartag
@cartag
May 31 2017 04:14
all their points are off... that's weird, they are the same for SM and CSM
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 04:14
Yeah, I'm not finding CSM points right now, maybe it was KDK, but whatever it was, I'm pretty sure the AC cost 25 points, and GSC costs 15.
GSC bolt pistol is 1 point which is different from marines.
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 04:16
GSC flamers are 7 points, Tau and SM/CSM have flamers at 9 iirc.
cartag
@cartag
May 31 2017 04:16
20 for AC
GSC is off on all of theirs it looks like... hmmm
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 04:18
Sounds very GSC
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 04:18
That is interesting that its been the same on other stuff so far. I wonder how close GSC is to IG.
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 04:23
GSC's Genestealers are at least 150% as expensive as Tyranid ones. Weird.
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 04:49
GSC are just a tad goofy overall when it comes to points, it seems.
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
May 31 2017 04:55
GSC's genestealers get Cult Ambush which is probably worth 50%!
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
May 31 2017 05:04
space marines get the best psychic powers period https://www.instagram.com/p/BUvj9aAgwJQ
@cartag this is all the chaos i've seen today http://imgur.com/a/m4L2J
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
May 31 2017 05:51
if I wanted to work on an 8th edition catalog file for AdMech tomorrow, is there enough foundation to do that?
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
May 31 2017 07:18
Some Eldar stuff (click on the Wraithknight pic): https://www.instagram.com/canhammer_yt/
Mainly points cost
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 07:19
Found leaks for Admech, looks complete.
Beginning work on AdMech Cat.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 07:21
I'll go with Imperial Knights Cat in the next few hours
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 07:22
I grant permission. But be good, I'll check it :P
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 07:26
Haha of course! I'm sure you won't find any heresy in there!
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 07:26
I'm not so sure of that... ;)
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
May 31 2017 07:29
Someone put all the T'au stuff into a pdf, for who's interested: http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1496192148380.pdf
I saw GK already posted, but this seems an easier link to use: http://imgur.com/a/KP4AI
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
May 31 2017 07:35
More GK, just below the top. Seems to be all of them: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/13470/724730.page
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
May 31 2017 07:41
Necron, or did I miss those? https://www.instagram.com/p/BUvf6Vkg0DK/
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 08:20
Since all knights have the same profile with different names (Knight Crusader, Knight Paladin, ...) should I create just one profile and change its name using modifiers or is it better if I create a different profile and wound tracker for each one (just to be safe in the unlikely case only some of them get modified)?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
May 31 2017 08:24
I think different profiles, more like because modifiers are not very change-supportive and also because it's simpler when there are less modifiers.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 08:27
Ok, on with the copypaste then!
Another question, with the way Battlescribe handles catalogs is it necessary to put all Imperium stuff in the same file?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
May 31 2017 08:30
IDK. I assume it'd be safer to put them in one cat for now, and if turns out unnecessary - copy the cats and remove different stuff from each.
I have no idea if you can understand what I meant, I have hard time myself :D
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 08:32
Haha yeah, I can understand it!
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 08:36
did we already come up with a way to more easily validate the increments in unit sizes?
Like befire it was +1 model for everything whereas now it goes in steps of e.g. +3
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
May 31 2017 08:38
Um... but we don't do catalogues with Power Points, do we?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 08:38
Dunno, the leaks on AdMech goes in steps of 3.. but yes, that is in PP
arent we supporting that?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
May 31 2017 08:39
Are we? If so, how do you suggest?
I have not used the new gst, are the PPs there as new cost type?
I mean, I think that these model steps you're talking about apply only to calculating PPs. Where you have Points table, the unit size says e.g. 3-9 and I feel you can take 5 if you want to.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 08:42
exactly. I guess I'll ignore that for now in the first drafts.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
May 31 2017 08:43
Yeah, supporting PPs at the same time would be kind of a pain. And also I think that PPs are so simple that BS is not that useful for them.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 09:10
by PP do you mean power levels?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
May 31 2017 09:16
yeah I thought it was Power Points which it obviously isn't.
ohh it's Power Rating
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 09:19
PP, PR... all BS :P
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 09:20
:+1:
do we have a plan for who is taking each faction? cause with all these leaks i want to start on something :P
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 09:34
roll call is still out, but crowbar is oing knights right now and Iam doing the admech leaks
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
May 31 2017 09:36
Ghaz:
92334adb9838e103c5c5dc605514b94e_5598.jpg
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 09:37
have we seen any faction stratagems yet?
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
May 31 2017 09:38
Nope. Think you won't see any until the codices start appearing.
Indices are just a stop-gap, to get everyone started at the same time.
Nice, just heard Harlequin Troupemasters have become HQ units.
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
May 31 2017 09:43
Someone just leaked all rules... but his dropbox is not accesible atm because he surpassed his limit for today. Expect others to host this stuff soon!
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 09:44
as in epubs?
that would be dope
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
May 31 2017 09:45
Nope, sounds like separate pages, but I'm not certain.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 09:45
just looking at the Wraithknight sheet, in Melee you can only choose one weapon to make all your attacks with right??
because in that case, Titanic feet are nasty
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 09:45
you can choose which weapon you use for each attack
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 09:46
oh I see...
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 09:46
so a captain with a fist and a sword could do 4 attacks with the sword and 2 with the fist, for example
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 09:47
so if you did decide just to attack with your feet, the wraithknight has 4 attacks, times 3 dice, equals 12 rolls to hit
at strength 8 and AP -2
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 09:47
sounds about right
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 09:47
each one doing D3 damage
Suncannon is also brutal, although, pretty variable output
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 09:54
How do you guys recommend starting an 8th Ed CAT?? i.e. start from scratch, or copy and paste from the previous one and then remove/change things as required?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 09:54
i would go from scratch
flush out all the old ways, make sure everything is exactly on point
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 09:59
I'm starting from scratch, just let me check it's all ok and my draft of Imperium Index will be online :)
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 10:05
fabulous
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 10:09
Done, the file is Imperial Index.cat, you can find it in branch 40k8eprep
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 10:13
that's just the knights, yes?
are we going to just have a CAT per index to begin with? or a CAT per faction per the previous Repo?
will the imperium CAT be too big??
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 10:31
I think we can put them in a single CAT for now, splitting them later when the codexes are released
Oh and by the way I think we should remove all previous edition cats... Leaving only the new GST and the files for the new edition
All those files are useless anyway
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 10:34
yeah, i was thinking the same
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 10:35
My laptop would be very happy if I could free some space
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 10:37
haha, i dont think 50 MB of cats will make much difference there ;)
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 10:38
It's actually more than 300 MB :) Not much, but I have less than 1 GB free in my /home partition :P
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 10:40
It would be good to delete the rubbish data
Well, rubbish for 8th Ed anyway!
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 10:46
Can anyone confirm that the only files we need to keep are these?
Warhammer40k.gst
Chaos Index.cat
Imperium Index.cat
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 10:48
Someone has been working on Tau haven't they...?
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 10:48
Yes but the file has never been committed to 40k8eprep, the pull request hasn't been merged yet
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 10:51
Wow!
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 10:51
holy shit this looks amazing
@Owlsbane, you're a fucking legend
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 10:54
Holy cow pats...!!
Awesomeness :+1:
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 10:59
Yay, you can have a DA interrogator chaplain on a bike..!
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 11:00
This way he can purge heresy faster
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 11:01
Time to divvy up the work then, if we only have 5 Cats, only 5 people can work at the same time...
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 11:01
We can have more than 5 Cats I think
Not all races in the Xenos books have to be together
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 11:02
orks, necrons and tau will be individual for sure
nids and gsc have some overlap, not sure atm
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 11:02

We can try dividing it this way:

Imperium + Mech
Chaos
Aeldari
Tyr + Genestealer Cults
Orks
Tau
Necron

Missing something?

Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 11:02
and eldar remains to be seen
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 11:03
All Eldar have the Aeldari keyword, so it makes sense having them together
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 11:03
oh, if thats the case then yeah
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
May 31 2017 11:05
Not my work (obviously). Just glad to be able to lend a hand, you guys do the hard work.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 11:05
well it's appreciated :D
alright, im gonna start on a tyranids cat
with gsc
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 11:18
If you checkout 40k8eprep you have a fresh start, there are only 8th edition files
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 11:19
Wish you hadn't done that but guess it's not a big deal
Wraithknight is basically an imp knight
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 11:20
Will it cause drama with the rest of the repo?
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 11:21
@alphalas We can always undo my last commit if it causes trouble
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 11:21
I was gunna use the old cats as jump starts - make things a little easier on myself
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 11:21
They are available in the master branch anyway, only 40k8eprep doesn't have them
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 11:22
True - just means a few extra steps
I'm not throwing a fit – I was just stating I wish you hadn't done that
Anyway, looks like the SHW/GMCs are now roughly equal
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 11:24
Sorry, I thought the general consensus was to start from scratch... I promise I'll wait next time!
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 11:25
I have no argument with deleting the FW cats right away - none of them will be updated right away so they're effectively dead
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 11:26
Anyway, I'm not gonna add anything to the Imperium Index for some hours, so if anyone wants to do something, feel free!
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 11:26
It was just with guard and sisters I was trying to save some steps - especially since sisters are basically unchanged
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 11:26
@alphalas scroll up to the last link Owlsbane posted, its pics of every page from every book
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 11:27
wait what? one index? IUm nearly done with AdMech.cat... you gotta be fucking kidding me >.<
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 11:27
Oh cool
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 11:27
@alphalas the whole of all documents are available on the Google drive link shared by owlsbane...
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 11:27
Yeah uh I thought we were still doing separate cats for factions
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 11:28
I don't know which one is the better way honestly... With separate cats we'd have smaller files but I'm not sure if things would work correctly
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 11:28
Since everything is going to be split into codices eventually anyway I assumed we were going with separate factions
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 11:29
everything would be castellans that way - multiple forces per detachment
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 11:29
yeah but I dont want my admech list to be clogged up with sisters and AM units
so many units I will NEVER use..
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 11:30
yeah, that list of unit would be unwieldy to say the least
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 11:30
I have no issues with separate catalogs, we'll just have to implement them like Castellans
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 11:31
which we can and should do via categories
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 11:32
Let's keep them separate then :) I'll rename my file "Questor Imperialis"
Where should we define categories then?
I'm thinking faction keywords in the GST and other keywords in the specific catalogs, but i'm not sure
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 11:36
specific in cat in any case
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 11:36
Ok, good
At least I did that right :P
Full rules/leaks
cartag
@cartag
May 31 2017 11:37
Right now the base words are in GST. Infantry, troops, biker, monster, etc
Put faction specific in cat.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 11:41
Done, now everyone can create their cat files
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 11:41
@Kohato good share, but you're about half an hour behind @owlsbane :-)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 11:41
Hah, I see that
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 11:41
I'll reserve final judgement till I've played it but I kinda feel like these new rules have ruined it for me
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 11:43
Oh, and how are we going to handle "placeholder" keywords like <CHAPTER> and <LEGION>? For now I have simply put <Household> in the file until we decide what to do
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 11:43
That's the exact way really
Until we have rules in a codex that give bonuses based on certain ones
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 11:43
I'll start stripping out guard once I'm home
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 11:44
I'll start on Necrons and SM today.
cartag
@cartag
May 31 2017 11:44
The categories should already be in the GST, I put them there myself.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 11:45
I saw a russ leak, but didn't get a good look at it. Did they combine the siege and non-seige russes?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 11:45
theres two variants i think, let me check
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 11:45
@cartag the faction ones aren't in the GST
we're talking about the faction keyword <Sept> or <Chapter>
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 11:47
@alphalas yeah, there's two
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 11:47
:+1:
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 11:48
other than power level, i cant see an obvious difference between them
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 11:48
Wargear options?
Like the new icon Jon.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 11:49
nope, only the turret weapon options are different
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 11:49
Huh, odd
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 11:50
i guess its just so you cant have mixed squadrons?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 11:50
Makes sense- previously it was literally just the rear armour that was different
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 11:51
Yea that could be.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 11:51

Until we have rules in a codex that give bonuses based on certain ones

We already have them in a way... For instance, Cawl has the Mars keyword and buffs only the units with the same keywords (so if I chose <Forge World> = Metalica it shouldn't work)... Other ones use it for listbuilding (Dark Angels can substitute <Chapter> with Dark Angels but only for some specific units)... Maybe the best way would be a new entry to add at the beginning of the roster? Like the Chaos Legion in 7th CSM or the Legion in Horus Heresy

Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 11:51
Lol you missed it I changed it yesterday just to fuck with @Thairne
That one might become my next profile pic
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 11:52
Haha. Best reason to change it
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 11:54
you're cruel... in other news, did you see the stats for the Wailing Doom....?!?!?! OMG - BUFF!!!!!!!!!
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 11:54
good
wailing doom was meh prevoiusly
previously*
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 11:55
I best get on and finish my Avatar conversion
(that I've actually been working on since... 2002, maybe...?!)
(ok, maybe NOT working, but I started it!!)
also, singing spear, always wounds on a 2+, and does D3 damage
shooting or melee
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:04
Ooooo
New T-Vault
Knows all 3 c'tan powers and can use all 3.
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:07
I'm probably one of the few people who own a t-vault :)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:08
<- my 2nd necron purchase :p
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:10
I just dont like much of what im reading in these rules
feels like all the flavours gone to me
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:10
No? I love it really.
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:10
its age of sigmar - sci-fi edition
i've played AOS, it's boring
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:11
Yep, that's why I like it. But I'm a huge proponent of AOS
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:11
i assume that was their intention
to target the aos crowd
cartag
@cartag
May 31 2017 12:12
Can I ask what you found so boring with it?
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:12
i liked the complexity of 40l
40k
same for the people in the group i play with
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:12
Complexity can be nice, but 40k was just too much.
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:13
for some
for others it was fine
cartag
@cartag
May 31 2017 12:13
And how does 40k being complex make AoS boring?
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:13
i would have made changes too it dont get me wrong
not sure what you want me to say cartag
my group. all of us, found aos boring
its that simple
given the choice of 7th ed 40k and the current aos, we would all play 40k
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:14
I think he's saying the simplicity is boring. Lack of complexity to them means lack of uniqueness/everything is the same
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:14
we just found 40k more interesting to play
i would have removed a bunch of peripheral rules that didn't add much to the game play, thats how i would have simplified it
but in a game where people already complained about winning or losing based on the randomness of dice throws, i don't understand why people are happy about how much d3 and d6 and 2d6 etc they have added in
apparently people didnt like D weapons, so they removed them... and then added Mortal wounds, which are like... D weapons
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:16
? No they aren't ...
D was an imperfect solution to the box GW cornered themselves in with GMC/SHV
And then those super powerful weapons were given en masse to an entire army
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:17
d weapons, wounds with no possible way of saving it
mortal wound is the same thing
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:17
  1. vs 6+D6!
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:17
d weapon wounds did't spill over to other models
mortal wounds do
imo they are worse than D
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:19
Eh, not for me. Rending system is leagues better than AP. Multiple Damage on weapons is a great change to represent their power. Power Levels for Narrative is a great thing for the game for incoming players
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:20
till you keep rolling 1's
cartag
@cartag
May 31 2017 12:21
And if you were rolling ones you wouldn't accomplish shit on either system
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:21
So we're back to complaining about randomness in a game about dice rolls. Nothing about that has changed.
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:21
in 7th you can mitigate a lot of that randomness when it comes to templates
higher BS, rerolling scatter etc
now it's ALL dice rolls and nothing else
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 12:22
skorcha.jpg
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:22
Speaking of less random. No more scattering blasts onto my own guys, or not being able to use a flamer because the gun tip of one of my guys is in the way.
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 12:22
It's an Ork thing, you wouldn't understand
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:22
No more scattering Deep Strikes
Also ... Scatter WAS dice rolls.
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:23
it was
modified by BS
and if you had the rules for it, could be rerolled
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:23
arguably AoS is far more tactically rewarding then 40k has been for years
there's more nuance in AoS - the simplicity is what MAKES aos better.
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:24
or for some, makes it boring
each to their own
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:24
Faster too ... I've done similarly pointed games of sigmar in an hour less than 40k
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:25
the only reason they want faster games is so people play more points an buy more models
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:25
Yea, GW was never going to please everyone with this
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:25
disagee
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:25
which is fair enough, they're in it to make money
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:25
I fail to see that logic at all.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:25
G has said standard points is 1500
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:25
people will play for the duration if the time they have at hand
if the game ends quicker, they will just up the point count
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:25
The reason they want faster games is because player groups have vocalized the need for less than 3 hour slogs at 1850
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:26
also, there are things that negate mortal
^this.
I have yet to come across a group that says they're happy with how long 40k takes.
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:26
You're deluding youself if you think GW do anything for any reason other than to sell models to you :)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:26
Last 7ed tourney I did was 1650 and 2/3 games were still 2.5 hrs
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:26
if anything I don't think points will go up, the quantity of games will go up instead
you're deluding yourself if you think G isn't listening to the masses
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:27
I guess i'm deluded for thinking GW also has started to care about the community and it's vocalizations.
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 12:27
Sigmar didn't sell them models at 1st. They did that because they had a vision of a game they want to make. It didn't work so hot, disrupting model sales, so they had to quickly redo it.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:27
That's some "Fuck big business" kind of thought there that I can't get behind.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 12:27
Alright, I think I'm basically done with AdMech. Might be rough, but for a first draft it's good enough. Now for some rest...
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:28
g'night Old man!
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:28
its nothing to do with fuck big business, at the end of the day it's a business' job to bring money in
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 12:28
Night? its 2:30 pm :D
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:28
they will listen to community if they think it will improve sales
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:28
So you can't both make money and do things to improve your product?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 12:28
I did this at work, but dont tell anyone :D
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:28
Haha fine. time for Dark Souls then
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:28
yeah man, step back and take a look at the whole. G has given the community literally EVERYTHING the community has asked for.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:28
Also. Bought and played the Dark Souls board game. Fuck me is that game hard.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 12:29
still need to work... but after that...!
Really? Been eyeing that one. Pricey...
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:29
you're putting words in the mouths of a lot of people in that community who didn't ask for this
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:29
Yea, the 70k tourney I played. 2nd place. used the money to go toward the one copy they had
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:29
the small vocal minority
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:29
it's not cheap, but it's a pretty fun game. the minis with it are pretty good looking.
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:29
the small vocal minority are the ones GW have apparently listened to
people who were happy didn't complain and voice anything
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:30
no - you have that backwords
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:30
people don't go into public forums to proclaim how awesome things are
people only go into public forums to complain
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:30
I've seen so many people who quit 7th come back because of 8e
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:30
and u will see the same number quit cos of 8th
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:30
doubt it.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:30
If they do? Oh well. 7th books still exist.
Same thing happened in sigmar.
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:31
doesnt work like that
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:31
and you know what? 60% of those who rage quit 8e are those who drove away those who quit 7e.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:31
? Do you now know about 9th age?
Sigmar was decried as TERRIBLE AND HORRIBLE AND WOE IS ME. People quit, or kept playing 8th. or even got behind a fanset ccalled 9th age. Then GHB came out with points and sigmar is as strong as ever.
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:32
very few people still play fantasy even tho all the rule books still exist; people tend to not want to play something thats deemed obsolete
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 12:32
uh... stupid question.. but where do we commit the new files?
I kinda just used cartag's branch thinking it somehow official since he worked on the GST already...?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:32
yep that's right Thairne.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 12:32
Yes, I used that branch too
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:32
should only be 2 index files in it now
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 12:32
good one.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 12:32
3 files... Chaos, AdMech and Questor Imperialis
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 12:32
9th Age still has about 4 or 5 times the support of sigmar locally for me. Also Kings of War has about equal support to sigmar.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:33
fine, 3.
AdMech snuck in there.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 12:33
snucky bastards!
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 12:33
Customers remember when you wrong them, and it's still a long way to forgive for most of my people.
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:33
well imagine being the customer i was stood by the side of in warhammer world on the day they announced 8th
who had just been sold a pile of codexes
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:34
You mean the one who got refunds for all of those?
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:34
5 minutes later they call us all to attention and basically tell him they just sold him toilet paper
the refund announcement came days after
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:35
True. That wasn't handled gracefully.
WW shouldn't have been selling codexes
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:35
also consider all the people who bought into the recent books
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:35
sigmar EXPLODED in my local area - people who haven't played since 6e, and lots of 40k players now play aos - it's huge here in MD/PA/NJ/NY/V/VA
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:35
ynari, death watch, traitor legions, thousand sons
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:35
wv*
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:35
people who bought multiple packs of models just to use formations
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:35
weird, my w doesn't type is I hold shift.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:35
So, powergamers.
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:35
all of the time GW knew, in some cases just 1 or 2 months later, all of it would be junk
so someone who buys a new book is a power gamer?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:36
I have zero sympathy for people who were rushing to buy the new hotness as soon as net lists drop or abused formations.
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:36
gathering storm added new stuff, people bought the books and bought models to use the new rules
all of which now is useless
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:36
Someone buying multiple kits solely to use formations.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:36
^this
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:37
i really don't get that
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:37
Of course GW knew. What did you want them to do, stop selling EVERYTHING once they knew a new ed was coming?
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:37
GW make a formation, may be a good one, or a shit one but either way it requires a min of lets say 3 units of something
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:37
All models are still "arguably" valid.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:37
because gw even said that wasn't how the game was supposed to be played.
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:37
so someone buys 3 packs of models to use it, no idea if its good or not, just to try it cos thats how many models it needs
and you think they're in the wrong for doing that?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:38
The books still have value to some for lore/art. And honestly, c'mon. We run Battlescribe. The points and rules is not the sole reason for buying those Codexes.
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:38
its the main reason
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:38
if you're in an area where you can't playlets before buying, that's also an issue.
my local playtest*
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:38
the reality is most people buy the books for the rules
the fluff is a nice aside but very few buy em just for the fluff
and if they did it would be a damn expensive book for little bit of story when you can just a full novel with way more content for a 4th of the cost
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:39
this general area is huge in play testing stuff - you're expected to have the models for tourneys is expected, but not the end all be alls
and if you wanted to try out some new formation, you used what you had and proxied to try it.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:40
same for mine ... if your enjoyment of the game is so ruined because i'm testing a new unit, then I'm better off having not played that person.
James
@skonk
May 31 2017 12:43
listening to you both has really just solidified my opinion that i dont like the new rules
nor would i like to play with people with your attitudes
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:44
there was literally zero reason to drop money on units for a formation if you didn't know what it did. you bought want you wanted, and most people understood that outside of tourneys, playing powerful beat stick super-units was not how you're supposed to play 40k.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:45
Sorry to hear that. As I said, you can't please everyone. If your local group does decide to stay on 7th. know that the 7th ed repo will be kept (though not maintained) for people to download and use.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 12:46
that's fine - to each their own; however that's always been the sort of attitude that Gw has encouraged with how to play 40k
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 12:56
Thats the best quality we're gonna get boys.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 12:59
reading through these narrative missions makes me really excited to play
i may have to bring the campaign forward a little...
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 13:00
how do we differenciate between keywords and faction keywords? because currently we don't/can't?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 13:00
Last page is the campaign rules
thats what I want :)
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 13:00
there's actual campaign rules?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 13:00
Make the faction ones: Faction: <Sept>
Faction: Necrons
So they are all grouped together.
YEa, last page in the first album I linked.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 13:02
:+1:
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 13:03
Alright, i'm running to the store, i'll be back in a bit and get started on SM/Necrons
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 13:03
ah i see, its just suggestions for how to play a campaign
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 13:04
oh damn :(
I was hoping for a Path to Glory type of thing
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 13:08
I'd just like to ask @skonk what part of the rules are now less complicated and therefore boring? Yes, USA's went away, but now each model has its own rules so in some ways it is more complex...
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 13:14
And also, are you saying that you only play with a WYSIWYG army, and that you expect your opponent to play WYSIWYG or not at all...? Cos, that's pretty harsh...
cartag
@cartag
May 31 2017 13:14
With the house rule of "Hatred: Unpainted models"
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 13:14
I mean, it's cool either way, how a day who you play and like to play is up to you, we're just on the looking forward and see how it goes but..
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 13:29
checking the leaks from DA... so bland.
writing the AdMech cat already left me a bit underwhelmed and SM got it even worse.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 13:40
ah nothing helps.
Starting on Dark Angels.
With that, all my 3 cats are in then.
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
May 31 2017 13:50
Guys, I'm seeing disappointments with some of the factions in here, just remember that the indices are simply to get you through the night until your codex drops. This is the bare minimum GW needed to do to make the game playable for everyone from the get go, that's all it is.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 13:50
No faction disappointment here. Just a couple units I'm sad about in Tau. Necrons got buffed to the freaking stratosphere.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 13:53
GSC look more or less the same, havent read through nids yet
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 13:53
Nids at first glance look a whole lot better than they were.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 13:53
@Thairne are you going to put all Marines in the same file since there's a lot of shared stuff?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 13:53
and i almost dont want to look at the spandex elves
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 13:54
Yea thairne, feel free to make my life easier :smile:
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 13:54
Elder look just as OP as before so that's all groovy :+1:
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 13:54
just tell me dire avengers are good and i'll be happy
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 13:54
I don't feel DA right now.
RW are righteously hit with the nerf bat to the extreme.
DW is... so vanilla it hurts. Like nothing special besides mixing of weapons at all.
We lost our bonus against CSM.
It's like skimmed milk.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 13:54
That's not a terrible idea because of how the faction keywords work ...
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 13:54
I think I might need to get some drukhari as well..
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 13:54
All astartes in one cat.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 13:55
what?
nah
I dont want no smelly Calgar in my DA lists just as I dont want astra militarum in my admech cat
if they split up again at a later date you'll have more trouble
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 13:56
Whether you want it or not, it's a legal list.
How will we validate a detachment of SM and DA?
Since it's "Imperium"
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 13:56
categories.
thats why we do all this stuff
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 13:57
Right, GST is not set up that way now.
Currently we're same as before. One cat file per detachment. Limits on Elites/Troops/etc "Per Force"
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 13:57
it has to - sooner or later the indexes will turn into codexes again and expand on fluff and units
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 13:58
Yeah but what if codex DA says "use these units from codex SM adding this keyword"?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 13:58
So with the way we have it set up now, how would I do a Brigade of SM, AM, and DA?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 13:58
prototype AM is up
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 13:58
I can't do 3 Brigade detachments.
That wouldn't validate right.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 13:59
yes but just imagine being lets say a Sisters player
now you have to sift through 2 dozen of troops that you neither want nor can use because those are not your army
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 13:59
I understand the downside.
But, we currently might as well not even validate number of choices.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 13:59
everything is Cadia, yes.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 13:59
Exactly.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 13:59
that's why those categories need to happen
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 13:59
I'm going to start Orks. Because the only Faction keywords are "Ork" and "<Clan>" I'm putting it in its own CAT uncontroversial, right?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 13:59
Yep, so i'm saying we should change the GST now to sort that out
Correct Tag.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 14:00
and if you bandaid that now you'll have to do it that way later anyway PLUS have do pick apart the cats
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:00
Imperium is the fucker here.
Cartag already has chaos in one.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:00
just fyi, AM is literally stripped down am, nothing else.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:00
Ok, then we should fix GST now so that it works with cross cat validation.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:00
I stripped out Fw and formations, and uploaded
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 14:01
chaos makes kind of sense in itself
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 14:01
Otherwise, can't we have show/hides the same as with forge world before?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:01
Show/Hide would be one option.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:01
Don't AoS datafile work the same way?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:02
AOS datafiles are Grand Alliance.
Not faction.
aren't they?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:02
correct
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:02
What's the difference between Grand Alliance: Order and Faction: Imperium?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:02
size.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:02
So I see two options: Imperium in one Cat with show/hide factions. Or we fix GST to validate cross cat in a single detachment.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 14:03
the later without a doubt. More elegant, easier to maintain
and more future proof
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:03
If size is the problem then we'll have to keep them separate then
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:03
so shall we do the role call?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:03
Agreed. I'd prefer that, which is why I'm saying we should not move forward with much more imperium implementation until we fix that.
Xenos races are no issue since they're all separate.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:04
Yeah, if those are the reasons I agree too
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:04
Might as well.
Those 7 albums are the entirety of rules/index.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:04
But I still think there may be a little problem
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:05
I'm writing up the post now. Gonna edit the Cat Keepers page.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:05
I'll stick with my cats
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:05
What if I want two Brigade Detachments? Would battlescribe be able to handle them?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 14:06
Depends on your device
mobiles are the crux
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:07
I see... I'm mainly interested in desktop versions though
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:08
I'll take AS, AAT, AC, AI, A, AM, BA, I, LoTD, MT, SoS
I don't want GK anymore lol
while I understand what you mean @Crowbar90 we have to always keep mobile in mind.
especially them android assholes lol
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 14:09
so.. aw, I think I'm too drained to be able to think right now...
Fixing the GST would require to validate based on categories.
We assign thsoe categories as Force Org Slots.
Now how would I personally go and do a patrol detachment over multiple cats... ....ngggggh....
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:09

@/all Hello 40k maintainers. We now have the entirety of the indexes leaked. We will be starting our 8th prep in earnest. Though I imagine this call won't bring many more people than have been here already, i'm still calling it out. Please raise your hand if you wish to help in the prep. For initial releases, we're going to be dividing up the factions so that one author is working on those particular files. After release, we will go back to collaborative creation, but for the initial - we only want one person working in the file. Below are the current "Claims":

@Thairne - Admech, IK, DA
@alphalas - AS, AAT, AC, AI, A, AM, I, LoTD, MT, SoS
@kohato - Necrons, SM
@bitjump - Tau
@tag8833 - Orks

Please let us know what cat you will be working on. I will be marking all of it down here: https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/wiki/Catalogue-Keepers

Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:10
fuck it I'll let someone rewrite BA; I'll maintain later
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:10
@alphalas yeah I know, I just stated that I almost always use the desktop one, didn't mean to drop mobile :) and I'm an android asshole anyway :P
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:10
I got a shitton to do otherwise lol
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:10
Lmao yea, you have quite a bit.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 14:10
I've started on GSC, and i'm planning to do tyranids after
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:11
are LoTD in the SM leaks too?
in which case I'll drop them too
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:11
Yeah everything is in the leaks
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:11
I didn't search them out but the 7 albums I posted should have everything
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:11
I meant specifically in the estates thingies
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:11
Thanks gen, got it down.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 14:11
saw them
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:11
I can do basically anything you guys want to drop
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 14:11
just a single page if I remember right
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:11
astartes*
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:12
So if @alphalas drops them I can take BA and LotD
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:12
go for it.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:12
Alright Crow.
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 14:13
Who is our Eldar coder?
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:13
IK should already be completed by the way
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 14:13
ah yes. Time to pcik that one apart :D
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:13
@/all @alphalas's revised list is as follows: AS, AAT, AC, AI, A, AM, I, MT, SoS
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:13
I being INquisition?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:14
si
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:14
Let's hope there isn't any heresy :P
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:14
@tag8833 usually @FarseerVeraenthis and @efalsken are the 'dar dudes
@efalsken doesn't pop in often though
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 14:15
it looks awfully clean at a glance... nothing to purge. Sadface.
Revised.
Let me know if i'm missing anyone/any factions.
Blanks are currently not spoken for.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:16
Missing Blood Angels
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:16
86 me off gk
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:16
O.o Holy shit I am. I didn't even delete it either.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:16
And I'd be very happy to take Deathwatch if you don't mind
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 14:16
I'd rather not be on SW
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:16
Done, done, and Done.
Done also.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 14:17
I'll take DW
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:17
you might have to fight @flakpanda or @FarseerVeraenthis for D
dw*
lol thought so
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:17
re-done.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 14:17
Also, rename sisters to talons of the emperor
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 14:17
i'll do some pointy-ears when im done with nids, if nobody has claimed it by then
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:17
oh right, those were combined.
Thanks.
Also - how do you spell drukari
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 14:17
Since it's both SoS and custods
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:18
were they recombined again
?
*
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:18
It's Drukhari I think :) and if it's still free I'll take GK after I've done the other ones
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 14:19
SoS have Imp, Telepathica and SoS factions
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 14:19
I'll take GK too
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:19
Oh good then!
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:19
So it's 3 factions now?
one cat file?
Done Flak.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 14:19
cant find custodes atm
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:20
@Crowbar90 I'll help maintain BA once it's done.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 14:20
Custodes got rolled into talons @GenWilhelm
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:20
The index has them listed as "Talons of the Emperor"
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 14:20
custodes just have Imp and Custodes
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 14:20
Id edit it myself, biut i'd just cause a conflict - skitarii and admech are one now it seems. Wiki can reflect that
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:20
So we'll leave it taht right now.
Done thairn.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 14:21
I see no one is claiming aeldari,lol
Austin C.
@capitaladot
May 31 2017 14:21
Please put me down for Imperial Armour: Xenos Aeldari once that is released/leaked.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:22
Wasn't even separating those until we see if they're just addons or separate factions.
Austin C.
@capitaladot
May 31 2017 14:22
I. E. Corsairs, etc.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 14:23
I was just referancing​ all 4 factions
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:23
Does anyone have a fetish for wolves? Since my cats should not be huge I may do SW too after them
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 14:23
cust.png
SoS.png
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:23
Ok, https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/wiki/Catalogue-Keepers should be set. Crowbar, feel free to add your name to a blank one if you start implementing. I'll leave it blank for now since you wanted to do nids/GSC first before picking up the others.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:24
I'm not sure index IA will even have spereate factions anymore.
I hope it does.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:24
Ok @Kohato, good choice. When I'm done with the first ones I'll check if the wolves are still free
Austin C.
@capitaladot
May 31 2017 14:24
Corsairs are their own army.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:25
They are now.
Austin C.
@capitaladot
May 31 2017 14:25
Which armies have we seen actually collapsed?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:25
Aeldari.
Like, all of them.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 14:25
I'm wondering if drukhari/craft world/harlequins/ynnari will be one cat... Keyword aeldari maybe. Would be nice to see honestly
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:25
So can we start entering data soon or should we wait until GST has been modified?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:25
Eldar are Aeldari with <Craftworld> keyword
I'm thinkin so Flak.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 14:26
Yeah i am too
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:26
Xenos can enter now, there's no issue with that. Imperium, feel free to enter shit now with the caveat that you may have to change a bit later.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 14:26
Makes sense
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:27
Ok, good. I love the risk!
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 14:27
If you do it right it SHOULD not be much work
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:27
Alright, I combined them on the wiki
Aeldari should be one cat. Won't be any bigger than SM tbh.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 14:28
:+1:
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:28
I love how Xenos 1 is just Aeldari + Necrons.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 14:29
I'd says it's a book of old ones, but its orks
missing
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:30
Necrontyr and Aeldari were the oldest there is weren;t they?
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 14:30
O_o
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:30
orks are as old as dar
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 14:31
^
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:31
they were created at the same time by old ones
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 14:32
OK. So I downloaded the 40K8eprep branch. I wanted to see how you guys have been setting it up by creating a roster in BS. Are you using a newer version of BS?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:33
the alpha
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 14:33
Where do I get the alpha release?
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 14:33
I can take Wolves if no one else wants them?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 31 2017 14:33
I would love to drive eldar, but if someone else has a burning desire to do it then, go wild...
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 14:33
BattleScribe/Desktop-Alphas#133 @tag8833
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 14:33
Haven't really touched BS in months due to that pesky work stuff.
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 14:34
Thanks.
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 14:34
I play Marines & Tau but don't mind pitching in to help.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:34
@penguin20000 I was planning on doing them after BA and LotD, but I have no issues if you want to do them
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 14:35
If I have time I'll get to Aeldari. Summer class is 4 days a week :p
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 14:35
Has anyone collated all the leaks in one place yet? I've not seen some of them
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:36
Scroll WAYYYY up
:smile:
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 14:36
Lol ok
Core rules + each index.
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 14:37
Just found it :D
I'll look at starting tonight.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:37
@bitjump You on gitter yet?
duh, yea he is - I talked to him already
There's a conflict in his pull :/
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 14:38
Is there a way to DL all imgur images in an album in one go?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:39
Nah you can download each as an album though
on the page.
Yes.
Lol
very very bottom
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 14:39
i see, have to scroll all the way down :)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:39
the "..."
then download post.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:39
The conflict is in the GST if I remember correctly, you can probably accept his Tau file without the older GST and it should probably work
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:40
Yea, it's a plasma cannon profile
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 14:41
use the web editor to resolve the conflict?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:41
I can mark it resolved but i dont know what that will break
Anyone actually good with github conflict management?
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:42
I have some experience with it but I don't have a computer right now
I can try and check it from my phone though
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 14:43
there ya go
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 14:43
Great
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:43
and merged
We should get him access to the repo.
... did github just die ?
nvm
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:52
oh wow. Mysterious objectives changed a bit
Sabotoged is so much meaner now.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 14:52
mortal wounds?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:52
D3 Mortals to the unit who discovered it.
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 14:53
ouch
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:53
NICE!
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:53
Yea, and another " At the end of your shooting phase roll a dice. 5+ choose an enemy unit in 36" and it takes d3 mortals
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 14:54
why again would I want TDA with all those mortal wounds flying about?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:54
Night fighting is back to a BS penalty based on range.
That objective will be something you want to fight over :p
Yes!
Stock 3-4 player rules!
Lol. the most unused section of the Advanced rulebook: Death from the Skies
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 14:57
i once saw people play the dogfight phase
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:58
it might see more use now that flyers don't need skyfire to shoot at :/
meaning more people will bring them
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 14:58
well the helldrake is basically a skimmer now
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 14:58
You mean a f ucking drag racer ...
30" movement.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 14:58
I still love the one idea my friends and I had - play dogfights with X-wing scale minis on a sideboard.
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 14:59
Currently working :( I'll have to look at the leaks later
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:03
ooh, shotguns are actually worth considering now
+1S at half range
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:04
oh nice
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 15:04
scouts in a landspeeder storm could be fun
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 15:04
this is where I put my Landspeeder Storm
IF I HAD ANY!!!
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:06
Can I start implementing Tau this/next day?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 15:06
uploading imp1 pdf ;)
tau is already mostly done.
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:07
Who is undone?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 15:07
at least I think it is
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:07
Tau's been claimed and amazingly, nearly done.
I say claimed, this is collaborative. but I mean @bitjump has gotten it nearly all ready
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:09
ah, thanks
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 15:09
building imp2 pdf now.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:09
That's not to discourage you from hanging out and contributing, we're trying to keep the initial commits to 1 person per cat so there's no conflicts in the initial uploads.
after that, it's back to collaborative development.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 15:09
^this
and if you want to work on some of the ones with my name on it, go for it lol
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:10
cat being catalog.
not ... feline.
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:10
I can try with Arle for start
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:10
Yea, Alpha kinda bit off 2 index books lol.
Arle?
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:11
Harlequins
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:11
Oh, that make ssense.
So here's the thing about them.
It seems like all Aeldari have been combined to Aeldari.
for the faction keyword.
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:12
There's no problem in mergin' multiple files
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:12
So if you do those, make a cat file called "Aeldari" instead of harlequins
and just add the harles there.
Some there is. We don't want to create an Imperium catalog ...
Aeldari we think can safely be made in one cat file.
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:13
isn't it better to create separate eldar catalogues and then merge them?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:13
Not sure what you mean by merge.
There's no tool to merge them together, it's all copy/paste by hand.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:14
i think he means work on the sub-factions in separate cats, then combine them into one
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:14
As you should know, catalogues are plain .xml
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:14
Ahh
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:14
there's minimal crossover, so it wont be too painful
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:14
If you've done that, go for it.
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:14
kk, I'll try
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:14
I hate digging through xml - so it'll be nice to have another face that can sift through it.
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:15
scripts for easier life?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:15
regex more like :P
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:15
^ - or mass find/replaces.
Is about the extent of my xml work.
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:16
(previously, i'd half-implemented some tool for elder battlescribe version for easier catalogue edditing, but they did change a lot)
(so I know it's structure)
Austin C.
@capitaladot
May 31 2017 15:21
If we could talk @Jonskichov into giving meaningful default names to links (i. E. copy of the title of the linked item) the XML would be meaningfully hand editable
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:22
are we not tracking power levels in this?
Austin C.
@capitaladot
May 31 2017 15:23
With every link being named "new link", it would be a nightmare
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 15:23
we should be. its easy
Austin C.
@capitaladot
May 31 2017 15:23
+1 to that
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:23
Power Level should be a 2nd cost type.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 15:23
^
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:23
Would we support two separate databases?
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 15:23
its just tracked along with points
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:23
? For what
PL vs Points? no
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:24
kk
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:24
cool, ill update the gst
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 15:25
there will just be some conditionals for units that gain power levels for more models.
ie the second set of 5 is +x PL
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:25
That's fairly easy to do as long as the 2nd set is divisible by model count.
Example. Unit of 5 is 12 PL and 5 more is 10 PL. Unit cost would be 2 PL, and each individual entry in the unit is 2 PL each.
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:27
Unfortunately, no, 'casue 7 PL would cost 22, like 10 PL
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:28
increment by 10 for each 5 selections in unit
i think is what he meant
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:28
ah, I see
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:29
It is a big wonky
CSM for example.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:29
what suffix do we want? PL? Power Level(s)?
Austin C.
@capitaladot
May 31 2017 15:29
Why not just Power?
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:30
which branch contains updated for 8th core?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:30
wh40k8thprep
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:30
thx
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:30
40k8eprep *
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:30
does it include both Pts and PL?
Austin C.
@capitaladot
May 31 2017 15:30
I think @Jonskichov needs to cook upna more powerful programmable arithmetic engine
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:30
Not yet, I think gen is doing that now.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:30
yeah, what is the second cost type going to be called?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:31
Pts. PL.
Is fine with me.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 15:31
POW. :P
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:31
Ok batman.
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:31
Maybe 'Power'?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:31
CY KAPOW ER
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:31
CKYA?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 15:31
LOL no actually that was a WM/H reference lol
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:32
@Kohato russian vulgar
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:32
I know ;)
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:32
sorry, this isnt twitch chat. i shouldnt be spamming
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 15:32
Is anyone editing the GST right now?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:32
MID OR FEED CYKA BLYAT
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:32
yes
be out in 2 seconds
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 15:33
I'm uploading my pdfs to my dropbox now
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:33
Who are GST?
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 15:33
@GenWilhelm while you're at it, there seems to be a duplicate profile
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:33
game system
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:33
thx
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:33
GST - the main system file
warhammer40k.gst
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:34
understood
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 15:34
Chainsword, near the end... there are two with id 9b1e-61f9-4a5b-0044
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:34
Lol @Crowbar90
Oh damn
thought it might be the plasma gun
that was in bitjump's pull
was gonna laugh
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 15:34
no, I don't know where that comes from
I can fix it myself, but since @GenWilhelm is already editing I though it might be faster
Additionally, Astra Militarum catalog is not working, but it's probably since it still references the old game system
It doesn't cause any issue anyway, unlike the duplicate in the GST which prevents the creation of other catalogs
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 15:36
I thought I updated the GST for it
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 15:38
"Cannot open catalogue Astra Militarum because the game system file was not found."
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 15:38
weird
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:41
alright, GST is updated
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:41
Holy shit
The Dark Imperium box set.
it's actually the full 250 page Hardcover rulebook
the 65$ one.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 15:42
yup
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:42
oh man, thats cool
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 15:42
they said that
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:42
That's a fucking steal.
I figured it'd be a small SC version like the current sets.
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 15:43
nah full hardback
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:44
That's such a good deal.
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 15:44
I'm gutted i didn't get time to play the new rules at Warhammer Fest
Damn ironclad assualt launchers cause D3 mortal wounds
(on a 4+)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:45
I'm liking how Mortals/regular wounds works with bleeding.
It actually gives units purpose. Troop clearing or character clearing.
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:46
@GenWilhelm , pls, fix leading space in Power Levels display name
it is ' PL'
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:46
tsk tsk tsk.
You're fired @GenWilhelm
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:47
Or should I fix it myself?
Ok, I'll do
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 15:52
So if there is an upgrade with a cost of 0 that has no downside what-so-ever, but the rules say "May Take..." Should I just make it always taken?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:52
I'd say no.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 15:53
If you delete all the old cats out of the 8thprep branch, will that hurt anything?
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:53
May it's done for modelling purposes (i.e., 2 grenades for 5 models)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 15:54
They should already be gone flak.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 15:54
Last I looked this morning, they were all there
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 15:54
Yeah, it is for modling purposes "May take an Attack Squig". it's free and gives you a few extra attacks, so the only reason not to take one all the time is modeling.
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:56
What is your version of BS?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:56
leading space was intentional. "7 PL" looks better than "7PL" imo
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:56
ah, thanks
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:57
currently working on BS 2.01.00.82
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 15:57
strange. I've just download one and it's v2.00.17.74
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 15:57
its a prerelease version
BattleScribe/Desktop-Alphas#133
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 16:07
I wake up and holy Necron changes
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 16:16
put imperium in gst? I think I missed this discussion
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 16:17
//=========
Which is proper way to handle keywords in bold?
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 16:18
arnt all keywords in bold :p
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 16:19
ive been putting them in ALL CAPS, since raw text output is a thing
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 16:20
I've also been capsing any relevant keyword in text descriptions
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 16:32
now that I've updated the rev of AM people able to open it?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 16:33
its not in the list of catalogues in the roster editor
data editor tells me game system not found
its still pointing at the old GST id
AM.png
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 16:38
Should I include Power Sword profile into .cat, if it could be found in .gst?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 16:38
use the one in the gst
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 16:38
++
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 16:43
oh, if you use anything from the gst, make sure its up to date. not everything in there is 8e, some of it is left over from 7th
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 16:43
Yea, we'll need to go back and clear old stuff out sometime
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 16:43
I saw
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 16:43
Things like Infiltrate aren't updated, but Infiltrator (the new term) should be added and usable
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 16:44
do we have anyone doing fortifications?
cause they'll easily get forgotten amongst everything else
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 16:49
I don't think so
Also - we need to change the Wound table in GST
to Wounds Taken to Wounds Remaining.
New40k uses remaining rather than wounds suffered.
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 16:50
Oh, yeah, I was gonna mention that
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 16:50
@GenWilhelm can you fix it por favor?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:00
image.png
God damn I'm so happy now. T-vault is a sexy beast now.
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 17:00
Necrons are scaring me just a little
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:00
Why?
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 17:01
They look more annoying than they ever used to be.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:01
Oh yea.
Reanimation is gonna piss a lot of people off.
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 17:01
Reanimation Protocols is a thing, Quantum Shielding makes me want to cry, all their vehicles regen wounds every turn
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:01
Especially since crypteks boost it
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 17:01
Night Scythes have no capacity and just get to teleport reserves onto the field, AP-1 on baseline infantry
Deep Striking Monoliths that can also teleport reserves
Sweet jesus
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:02
Also, 20W monolith.
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 17:02
Yeah.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:02
I need more than my 1 now.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 17:02
@GenWilhelm if you have to edit GST please check the entry for Lightning Claws... Currently two of them cost 6.5 pts each (correct) but one costs 0 pts (sadly not correct)
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
May 31 2017 17:05
most of these powerful units got much more expensive tho
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:05
Hah.
Nope. Tvault lowered by 55 points.
I mean, it's a very very odd 496 points now.
but that's less than the 550 it was :)
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 17:06
Was it a LoW previously?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:06
si.
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 17:06
Neato.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:06
So that didn't change.
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 17:07
Ghostkeels are what I'm eyeing up - they're a little weaker but they didn't get smacked around by the huge points increase across the board
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:07
Also, the powers aren't shot from the C'tan inside.
which means the corners of the damned model don't block LOS.
That was the stupidest thing in the world.
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 17:07
I think the stupidest thing for LoS/firing arcs was the Knight FAQ
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:07
Yea, that too was dumb.
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 17:08
But yeah, gut instinct is Necrons are gonna be very powerful and might be a tad too cheap
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:08
yep.
Immortals.
40pts without wargear.
nvm, 9pts for their weapons. So 17 per, which I think matches what they are now actually.
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 17:10
Yeah, 17 points for 24" Rapid Fire 1 S5 AP-2
With the reanimation protocols durability
Seems very good
That's 1 strength off Tau plasma, which is 11 points for the gun - and I'm still bitter about Tau plasma.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:11
Oh, btw. That T-vault
It's only shooting weapons are Assault.
Run and shoot!
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 17:12
"So, why is Tau plasma special?" 'Well, it doesn't get hot! It's a little weaker but safer!'
"So now in 8th edition, all plasma can fire without getting hot. What do Tau get?" 'Well....'
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:13
Did GW every say anything about weapon facing on vehicles?
Like, can the T-vault fire all 4 spheres at 1 target now?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 17:14
havent read the vehicle rules yet
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
May 31 2017 17:14
nothing about firing arcs anywhere. there are no "vehicle rules".
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:14
yea that's why I was asking
That's ... so strong
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 17:14
so the keyword does nothing?
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
May 31 2017 17:14
supersonic flyers can shoot behind them
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:14
20 S7 tesla shots.
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
May 31 2017 17:15
the keyword interacts with other abilities. Like haywire blasters do more damage against units with Vehicle keyword, Poison does less.
the only keywords in the core rules are Character and Fly.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 17:17
so if my dozer blade can see the enemy round a corner, the sponson on the opposite side can shoot them?
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
May 31 2017 17:18
that's my understanding
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:18
If you want to be universally hated, yes.
But remember, that same guy you shot can shoot you.
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
May 31 2017 17:21
shooting rules only say "check if it's visible". I can imagine tournament organizers stipulating line of sight from the eyes or barrel, as some have in the past.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 17:24
okay, thats a reasonable argument
@Crowbar90 I'm only seeing one lightning claw entry in the gst
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 17:26
Yes, with cost 0 pts and a modifier which sets cost to 6.5pts if two are equipped
the base cost should be 9
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 17:26
Is keyword Legendary supposed to be used for Unique Characters?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 17:27
ah, i get you
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:30
Legendary woudl be used if the dataslate has legendary listed as a keyword .
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 17:32
Thank you!
Gnofry
@Gnofry
May 31 2017 17:35
Hey everyone, you might have seen some comments of mine here and there on issues. I would like to help out with creating the Space Wolves and other catalogs if they haven't been created already. I've got some fairly extensive Data Editor experience as I have created a couple catalogs for personal use. Let me know if there is any way I can contribute!
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 17:36
Should inv save be presented in profile?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 17:37
thats your choice, i think most people do
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 17:38
Hmm... I've come across some weapons that are available in the GST, but with the older profile. Should I link to that profile and change it later or create a new one?
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 17:38
Should all rules and profiles be shared, or unique ones could be in-place?
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 17:39
I think we all agree on shared, but I wanna make sure
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 17:41
(wow, battlescribe can copy objects between instances)
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 17:41
I'm really glad it can, after having written all of the T'au weapon profiles then realising I couldn't save that datafile because I wasn't using the alpha
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 17:42
Hey @Gnofry, we've got a list of catalogues with people assigned to them here: https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/wiki/Catalogue-Keepers - I think SW are already spoken for by @penguin20000. There's craftworld, drukhari and ynnari not assigned yet, or if you ask somebody who has multiple (like @alphalas) I'm sure you can take something off them.
Gnofry
@Gnofry
May 31 2017 17:43
I would be glad to help with that faction. Is it decided that aeldari will be one catalog, or is that just how it is assigned?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 17:43
@Crowbar90 if its a 7th ed profile then update it.
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 17:44
Ok :) I'll finish these links then I'll update them
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 17:44
By now, I've created branch for all aeldari codices, I'm working on harlequins now
(unpushed yet)
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 17:45
@USSX-Hares again, its up to the data author. I prefer to have unique wargear and rules under the model they belong to, but its whatever your preference is
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 17:45
I'll merge all files if required before merging into 8e branch
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 17:52
Can I get push access for a branch 40k8eprep_eldar?
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 17:52
You could fork then submit a PR.
As an alternative, anyway.
Peter Zaitcev / [USSX] Hares
@USSX-Hares
May 31 2017 17:53
I've already forked
However, if anybody other wants to use this branch, it should be created on origin
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 17:53
you'll need to get @amis92 to join you to the repo in order to get push access, until then you can submit a pull request and have one of us merge it
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 17:56
I'm updating weapon profiles in the GST... Since we're going to have a lot of Adeptus Astartes catalogs, should I add all Space Marines weapons to the GST? This way all cats would just have to link to it
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 17:56
yeah, if you want to do that i'm sure it would help a lot of people
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 17:57
Ok, great
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 17:59
Go for it. I'm working on Necrons today and tomorrow - so any progress anyone wants to do on SM - feel free.
I have no real attachment to it :p
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 18:05
@GenWilhelm can you fix which GST AM pulls from?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 18:06
already did :)
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 18:21
image.png
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 18:22
Sweet thanks
I'll re sync and get back to work
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 18:47
hey @gen there are 2 chainswords with identical id's in gst
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 18:48
funnily enough, gen is a real user.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 18:48
... really?
@GenWilhelm
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 18:48
good, hopefully they can fix it for you :P
have you synced alpha? cos that got fixed earlier
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 18:49
I synced yes - or else I wouldn't be fixing unit types right now :P
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 18:50
i see a chainsword entry, a heavy chainsword profile, and a chainsword profile
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 18:53
Screen Shot 2017-05-31 at 2.53.33 PM.png
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 18:54
anyone else on ios able to confirm?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 18:54
Mac, not ios
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 18:54
its all frutti tutti to me
have you restarted the data editor since your last sync?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 18:58
si
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 18:59
is it there if you open up the gst?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 19:02
idk apparently I can only have one editor running at a time on mac
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 19:42
You know this is probably going to be the neatest the IG cat has been a while
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 19:42
How do I make it combine selection entries into a counter instead of showing each one?
Boyz.png
I want it to group the Slugga/choppa boyz together. I've done it before, but can't remember how to do it this morning.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 20:01
make all their wargear collective
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 20:02
I thought I tried that. Let me try it again.
That did the trick. thanks.
Philip Paulsen
@Randobar
May 31 2017 20:17
@GenWilhelm ill suport working on the tyranids, but i´m currently out of time for anything more then minor changes. but will help to iron out bugs continously
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 20:19
no worries. i havent started on the tyranids yet, so any progress there would be great
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 20:27
Am i doing something wrong? i'm trying to look at the other catalogues that people have started but no matter which file i open i get this error.
blob
the ID in the error message is the id in the catalogue file. The GameSystemId is correct though
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 20:28
do you have the files in the battlescribe data folder?
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 20:30
I do now yes
blob
Copied them over from where git placed them
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 20:30
does it work if you open them from that directory?
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 20:30
nope
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 20:31
the alpha client has its own data location, is it in that one?
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 20:32
Though i may have screwed my data folder. What's the default folder location? I may accidently set it to somewhere else, but the data is now when Battlescribe is looking
Or meant to be
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
May 31 2017 20:33
default is C:\Users\<USERNAME>\BattleScribe_ALPHA\data
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 20:33
Let me try putting it back there
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
May 31 2017 20:39
had that error today. Your data file location in BS is not coherent with where the GST actually is
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 20:40
Just reinstalling it
blob
That's the contents of my data folder
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 21:00
ok, i had to import the gst into BattleScribe
which then made a "Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition" folder with a Warhammer40k.gstz in it
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 21:47
Could I get push permissions on 40k8eprep to update some Tau data?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 21:49
... fucking seriously? I can't save the damn changes because of the goddamn chainsword.
.<
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 21:52
:(
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 21:57
this is fucking weird.
I go into GST, check chainsword - there's only one.
open the AM cat again, it says there's 2.
Troy Graber
@tag8833
May 31 2017 21:59
I'm about 2/3 of the way done with Orks. uploaded what I have so far. i'll get back to work tomorrow.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 22:00
If anyone wants to take a look at that cat and figure out wtf is up with it and maybe strip it back down be my guest
penguin20000
@penguin20000
May 31 2017 22:01
i can only see 1 Chainsword in the AM cat
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 22:27
@bitjump That'll be @amis92 to do that :)
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 22:36
Ah, alright!
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 22:46
Ok, what did I miss while at work
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 22:53
I finished adding all Space Marines Wargear
While I'm at it, I checked how many 7th edition leftovers are used in the new files... They're only a few luckily
I'll remove the unused ones and leave the others in the GST until the links are removed from the other files
Specifically, I'm talking about the rules Poisoned (used once in Astra Militarum file) and Psyker (used once in Orks and once in Chaos)
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
May 31 2017 23:01
No wait - I won't remove anything yet, I wanna be completely sure before I do
Lloydski246
@Lloydski246
May 31 2017 23:08
Hi, is there any way I could test the current version of this?
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 23:11
@cartag or anyone really. how am i referancing generic SM dataslates for gk/dw? am i just adding in my own?
oh wow. just noticed they suggest an 8x4 table for 2k to 3k games
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 23:14
Jeez
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 23:14
Yea. Francesco, if you wanted to implement sm as well go for it. I'm swamped at work. Necrons will be all I have time for this week I think.
And yea. Big big table.
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 23:14
I can pick up some slack if there's anything else that needs covering.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 23:17
So i have a question. how would one do an IMPERIUM army in one detachment in BS if we are still seperating out the factions?
cartag
@cartag
May 31 2017 23:17
To our new people, don't worry about Chaos. I typically work on big sweeping changes on the back end that don't get synced right away because they're not ready for prime time yet. A good number off them end up being common practice for other files. I respectively ask you leave them alone, not that anybody has done anything wrong, just a preemptive request :)
I don't know if we can from one detachment with separate cats
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 31 2017 23:18
Cartag is probably a bit excited for chaos in 40k now :p
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 23:18
i know, its the AoS problem
thats why there are only 4 cats
i couldnt imagine how monsterous an Imperium catalog would be
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 23:19
We'd need a catalogue for the highest-level shared tag of a faction, right? So Imperium, Chaos, Aeldari, then assorted Xenos
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 23:20
if we plan on accomidating top-level keyword armies
cartag
@cartag
May 31 2017 23:20
Chaos is being done as one file, with a broad selection like legions were/are in 7th
And yeah @Kohato I am going to actually play!
And tell the WAAC players to go outside and play hide and go Fuck yourselves
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 23:22
correct, same with imperium, or aeldari. its a top down approach. you select more grainular factions. IE Imperium > Adeptus Astartes > Ultramarines
you just show everything to start
just like how i set up AoS Grand Alliance > Faction > subfaction
so the question now become, is that what we do for imperium?
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 23:34
damn, they included termius ultra in the index.
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 23:40
Included whatnow?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 23:41
Titankiller LR
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 23:41
3 TL las, 2 single las
It's from before marines had access to guard supers
Daniel Mudd
@btjmp
May 31 2017 23:41
Oh, neato.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 23:42
400 points for match play :p
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 23:42
Sounds bout right
cartag
@cartag
May 31 2017 23:42
Whoa, really?
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 23:42
yeah
cartag
@cartag
May 31 2017 23:42
that's awesome. I wish they'd include the Slaughterfiend, and yes, I will continue to say that until they add it, dammit!
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 23:43
5 or 0 transcap previously; and if you rolled 3 1s to hit it suffered a catastrophic detonation iirc
Or the og plague super
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 23:44
so DW KTs are base 5 vets, but can include up to 5 more models in combo of vets/termies/bikes/vvets
intersting how they did that
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
May 31 2017 23:44
Can basic KTs ride in rhinos?
flakpanda
@flakpanda
May 31 2017 23:45
yeah
you add keywords terminator, biker, and jump pack respectively
frag cannon still OP, lol