These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

25th
Jun 2017
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 00:50
Is there a disadvantage to mutil charging now?
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 00:51
Getting fired on in overwatch by two units?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 00:51
yeah that's pretty much it.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 00:52
Hmmm...
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 25 2017 00:59
Seems the guidelines weren't used for Heretic Astartes :<
So I've changed them, since that catalogue is already public
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 00:59
huh?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 25 2017 01:00
Oh, not a big deal. Just naming thing from #3
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 01:00
Shit, I never did name change the CAT did I
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 25 2017 01:00
Seems not. Too late. We'll live.
Let's just keep everything else in line then.
@alphalas before you merge your FW astra militarum subfactions, please line them up with new guidelines, which means moving FW as infix. Also, I think putting Astra Militarum in the middle might be a bit too much, it loses readability (and the idea is to be "TopFaction - MostSpecificSubFaction" anyway)
Astra Telepatica don't have Astra Militarum in the middle, nor do Thousand Sons etc.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 01:05
ok so imp- [FW] elysians or DKOK?
well astra is a seperate faction ;)
but will do
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 01:05
most specific
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 01:17
Back from my saturday of gaming
thoughts from 4 games:
razorbacks are scary good now
landraiders make GK work, and I need 2 more of them (I think the single vortimer raider killed more stuff than the rest of my army)
if you're taking deathwatch, take combis because GW can't write rules properly and at the moment you are allowed to shove SI ammo through combi-wepon boltguns and shoot the combi as well
deathwatch aren't quite as shafted as I initially suspected, primarily because of cheap and widespread access to power swords making them multipurpose squads in an edition that rewards multipurpose units
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 01:23
on a more battlescribe related note, do you guys mind if I add stuff to the assumed amendments section as I find them? (been going through FW xenos book for part of last night)
since I'm using the same list for the mobile files to keep things consistent for users
tekton
@tekton
Jun 25 2017 05:11
@WindstormSCR I have found the same thing with GK; and I have three of them! Just need to figure out how to load them out...
speaking of which, i should finish that FW entry for GK tonight; got a little busy sadly the last few days :(
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 06:19
@WindstormSCR what load out on the razorbacks
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 06:24
was running 3, 1 assaults 2 laserbacks
the vortimer raider is hilarious
I killed the enemy warlord farseer with a landraider charge
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 06:25
Vortimer?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 06:25
that psyk-out launcher will do some serious work on daemon psykers too
Vortimer pattern land raider redeemer
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 06:25
Fw?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 06:25
GK FW option
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 06:25
Oh
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 06:26
its a redeemer with twin psycannons and psy-out launchers instead of the normal frag launchers
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 06:26
Sounds gross
tekton
@tekton
Jun 25 2017 06:26
'Psyk-out Assault Launchers: Roll a D6 each time this model finished a charge move within 1" of an enemy unit; on a 4+ that unit suffers 1 mortal wound, increasing to D3 mortal wounds if that unit is a (Psyker).'
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 06:27
@tekton seems like the best way to run them right now is paladins in the redeemer with a character, and then terminators in a phobos pattern (Twin Las)
tekton
@tekton
Jun 25 2017 06:29
almost all the people i'll be going against are horde armies, so the redeemer/fw do indeed sound like good ideas...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 06:29
I'm trying to figure out a good list with brimstone hoard.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 06:29
I don't have the full vortimer kit, I just use the one raider I have magnetized and the inquisition doors on
unfortunately a 3-raider list isn't really possible at 2k :(
or at least it'll be one heck of a squeeze with minimal units
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 06:31
Run two and a knight 😛
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 06:31
not a bad idea tbh, thunderstrike gauntlet warden maybe?
tekton
@tekton
Jun 25 2017 06:32
i've been debating how to get my knight in my GK list...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 06:32
Can the knight fill a role your are currently lacking?
tekton
@tekton
Jun 25 2017 06:33
i feel it can: ranged platform with decent shots
*longer ranged
GitArdnutz
@GitArdnutz
Jun 25 2017 07:07
Ju
James Roche
@JamesRoche
Jun 25 2017 08:11
Anyone able to help me with adding the new fw stuff to my lists? Totally new to bs
James
@skonk
Jun 25 2017 11:39
Fuck forgeworld...... them putting rules for stuff in the chaos book that we didnt have rules for before.... has made me want a load of stuff
£450 down the shitter since the book dropped :(
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 25 2017 11:40
disposable income is disposable
I'm just happy that the one underpriced FW unit nids have (Malanthrope), I've got two of already, and my necrons doesn't really care about FW at all
James
@skonk
Jun 25 2017 11:43
:)
first thing i bought was a Leviathan dread, and i got all the weapon options too
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 25 2017 11:43
ouch
James
@skonk
Jun 25 2017 11:43
magnetised it all up and it was actually a pleasure to build so im thinking.. well i may as well get a second body to use the spare weapons
and id been fancying some rapier batteries for some long range heavy dakka, was looking at the points cost per wound/shot and they work out better than Havocs
so... stuck 3 of them on the order
then im now thinking, i may as well spend the £250 for free express postage
so i stuck a deredeo dread and weapon options on the order too
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 25 2017 11:45
lol, yeah, I've been lost on trains of reasoning like that before
but I'm desperately trying not to buy anything more before I seriously cut down on my backlog
James
@skonk
Jun 25 2017 11:46
i would have ordered that archmagos they recommend to use as a Hellwright and a Xephon flyer on the list too but they dont have em in stock
or a Sicaran
but again not in stock
biab, nipping to the shop
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 25 2017 11:50
Question regarding sisters (ad.min): Am I correct in that the only way they can bring an Avenger Strike Fighter now in in an as.mil detachment?
so either a patrol detachment with 1hq and 1 troop + ASF, or air wing with 3 ASF?
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 12:35
3 hours it took to make the renegade milita squad.... FICK that was a tough one
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 25 2017 12:36
took me nearly an hour to put a wall into the GST. FW do not make things easy
@szera, you can bring one in an "Imperium" detachment
can anyone give me a second opinion on #440?
TL;DR - how much should a Barbed Hierodule pay for its scything talons?
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 25 2017 12:52
there's likely some major typofuckery with the massive scything talons and the hierodules
following the gw indexes, it should be priced for one or two pairs (60/90)
not 60 for one arm, and 90 for having two arms
RAW it's 90 for one pair (two MST), but the scythed h should clearly be "two pairs of MST" (as that's how the model is), not "two MST"
it's like the worst rush job of an index ever
Troy Graber
@tag8833
Jun 25 2017 13:19
Don't worry guys. GW assured us that "FW was playtestest just as thoroughly as all the other books". We know that 6 guys playtesting is "The Most playtesting an edition has ever got", and that "Its the most balanced edition ever", so I'm sure all of the obvious typos, and weird costs are intentional, and important to make it the best game it can be.
It's weird to hear Reece (playtester who has a podcast) talk about FW. He admits that they had access to the rules, but admits that the books are something of a trainwreck full of typos.
ddarz
@ddarz
Jun 25 2017 13:24
Hey guys, the pull request should be ready now :)
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 25 2017 13:26
well, all the indexes are but step-gap solutions anyhow, just hope it won't be too long before proper codexes are released
*stop-gap?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 13:40
I'm thinking the indexes might stay; and codecies only add rules/fluff/new units
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 25 2017 13:46
bummer. I was hoping the indexes was mostly a public beta test sort of thing
ie. adapt the units as best they can to 8th, then fix mistakes/balance issues in the codices
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 13:49
well if the indexes are like the GHB; they'll just update the indexes to take care of that
Troy Graber
@tag8833
Jun 25 2017 13:52
I'm not sure, I'm thinking @szeras might be right. The way they talk about the Codexes, at the very least I expect them to reprint the appropriate rules from the indexes.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 13:53
but they also have said re-balancing semi-regularly - which the easiest way to do that would be to make codecies basically be suppliments.
and we konow GW loves describing suppliments as codecies
look at how DKOK and Elysians are formatted at the very beginning - things that are shared aren't reprinted, but refrenced, with addendums.
Troy Graber
@tag8833
Jun 25 2017 13:55
Definitely. I agree it would be easiest. But it would have been much easier to add the house rule that everyone uses to the Maelstrom missions rather than leave it out, so I don't think GW is interested in the easy way most of the time.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 13:55
which house rule?
Troy Graber
@tag8833
Jun 25 2017 13:56
If a card is impossible to score (Manifest a psychic power when you have no Psycher) you immediately discard and redraw.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 13:56
oh that one.
could just be GW still doesn't like it.
as in it's a purposeful omission.
Troy Graber
@tag8833
Jun 25 2017 13:59
Well one thin is certain, the new maelstrom deck is blatantly worse then the old one. "Defend objective 2 for 2 turns" is a bad card. "Defend AN objective for 2 turns" would have been OK.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 14:00
there's probably one of those for each objective though.
Troy Graber
@tag8833
Jun 25 2017 14:00

There is.

I've played in competitive maelstrom tourneys, and they always write their own deck which just removes cards that are unscorable, and replaces them with interesting cards.

Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 14:00
idk i actually haven't gone through my deck tbh lol
i've actually seen both - custom decks and stock decks in tourneys.
i can honestly say neither was better then the other.
Troy Graber
@tag8833
Jun 25 2017 14:02
We've run Maelstrom missions for narrative campaigns, and we made our own deck. Point being, if GW wanted to update their Maelstrom deck they could have find any number of examples made by fans that would tell them how we actually like to play maelstrom.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 25 2017 14:37
If anyone plays aos
Indexes are simply grand alliance books. Nothing more
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 14:42
@Kohato that's all well and good, but that doesn't address the fact that they STRIPPED FLAVOR FROM EVERAYTHANG!!!!!11!!11!!!!!111!!11!11!!!!!
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 25 2017 14:45
Again. Grand alliance books
Did the same thing lol
The battle tomes helped flavor a lot.
Hoping codexes do the same
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 14:46
</sarcasm>
I play AoS, I'm in total agreement
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 25 2017 14:46
Hahahah
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 14:46
Dammit man, we don't have time for rational analysis when the GRIMDARK SKY IS FALLING
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 25 2017 14:47
I'm still waiting for my Aztec Dino riding geckos to get a book.
Grim dark sky isn't falling. It just broke in half.
And nurgle popped out.
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 14:47
and the crumbs ARE FALLING
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 25 2017 14:48
It's fine. It's fine. In the end necrons will still be there.
Eventually trazyn will reach critical mass and capture ever thing in poke balls.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 14:48
lol
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 25 2017 14:48
Tesseract labyrinths *
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 14:49
same thing lol
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 14:49
I'm just waiting for weather reports that Khorne has started an assault on Terra. First sign? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ2ucr74YNk
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 25 2017 14:50
The banjo just makes that song.
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 14:50
One of my favorite covors
covers
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 25 2017 14:50
Country bumpkin Khorne
Bloodthirsters in overalls. Holding a violin instead of an axe.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 14:51
so um, the combat gauge is actually pretty handy being rubber and all
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 25 2017 14:51
Is it still 30$
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 14:51
$12 iirc
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 25 2017 14:51
Better than the 30$ sigmar one.
Still double what a tape measure is :/
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 14:51
and it's an axe-violin, duh lol
idk dude it's far handier then a tape in those small distances.
$10
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 25 2017 14:53
If we're posting favourite covers, this one is pretty tight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAg5KjnAhuU
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 14:54
and it's nurgly on one side for her pleasure
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 14:55
I have a playlist of strange covers, take a peak: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzavdqbtwyfITk0CaGx0EyE8GQRywPqeY
peek holy crap am I bad with words today
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 14:59
so much slavic lol
got to song 5, wut?
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 15:02
I figured the version of Du Hast would cause the wtf reaction
I went down the YouTube rabbit hole a few months ago, just started going from recommended video to recommended video
I blame my love on strange covers from an Oktoberfest 20 years ago. Hearing Ring of Fire played by a polka band was trippy
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 15:05
no that was just so much slavic i had to skip halfway through lol
song 6 is actually suprisingly good.
song 5 is stull just wut.
still*
folk enter sandman was pretty good too
still can't believe the AOS guage is $33
good news is all the unique Elysian stuff is done.
gunna do all the unique DKOK stuff, then start working on the regular AM FW junk
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 25 2017 15:50
@alphalas so if Elysians are :sparkles: ready , maybe merge them and :shipit: ?
tekton
@tekton
Jun 25 2017 15:50
i'm almost done fixing my grey knight forge world snafu, too
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 25 2017 15:50
I've got Tau done and merged the Adeptus Astartes
oooh
so we wait
@tekton you ok with merging that thing into main GK cat?
tekton
@tekton
Jun 25 2017 15:51
@amis92 yup! just spent the last few minutes doing that
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 25 2017 15:52
Oh good, I hope it's not a huge inconvenience. We took some time figuring out how to Forge World :D
tekton
@tekton
Jun 25 2017 15:53
i just had to make sure a couple things pointed to the right spot
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 25 2017 15:53
So here are my contributions to cover song sharing
and
tekton
@tekton
Jun 25 2017 15:53
mostly just copy/pasting XML, so nice and easy
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 25 2017 15:54
So you've finished? Wow nice!
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 15:56
I don't have the FW flyers save the sky talon done in Elysians yet, so it'll probably be this afternoon/evening it's ready for merge
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 15:56
@alphalas the AoS guage is cast metal. Hence $33
+gw tax 😛
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 15:57
@Kohato hours late to the conversation, but if indexes = grand alliance tomes that's quite worrying considering over half the AoS factions are still suffering that change with no end in sight
In the case of high elves, its bad enough I listed all of mine up for grabs on miniswap last week
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 15:59
Even so still too expensive lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 15:59
they were playable until the FAQs removed the ability to substitute newer units in for deprecated entries in the compenium battallions, and then mandated use of newer warscrolls rather than there being a choice, so no army synergies at all anymore
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 16:05
Pretty sure they FAQed that user any version of the warscrolls you want
Even in place of newer ones
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 16:06
the old one yes, the new one forbids that in matched, which is all the local group plays
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 16:07
Ooooohhhhhhhh
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 16:07
it also changed the handling of battalions and keywords which is why HE now have only 2 battalions usable
so vOv
Gonna sell off my HE collection (has a bunch of oop stuff too) and then push that into more space elves
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 16:10
Rumir is aevles are next tho
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 16:10
Space elves ftw
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 16:17
@flakpanda that's why I'm dumping now, before everyone goes for new shit
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 16:18
instead of having a plausible army when the new rules come out
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 16:18
I see the logic
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 16:18
AoS in my area is all but dead
most of the people stopped playing when half the consistent players left the area and the remainder play things like mammoth spam and horror spam
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 25 2017 16:24
I play Tzeentch, horror Spam isn't that good in matched play
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 16:49
not sure what he's doing then that seems to suck the fun out of things, I've never personally played him
but playing the Tomb Kings guy and the beastclaws asshole was enough
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 16:53
How does someone funsuck with TK? They're basically neutered now
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 16:56
personality and massed necropolis knights
tekton
@tekton
Jun 25 2017 16:57
this is why i got all of my employees in to 40k- we have a built in gaming group and everyone gets along pretty well
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 16:57
Ah that'd do it
tekton
@tekton
Jun 25 2017 16:57
...I may have bought them all get started boxes; first taste is free and all.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 16:58
Didn't they nerf the skull catapult too?
Gnofry
@Gnofry
Jun 25 2017 17:00
Tomb Kings are absolutely disgusting. Tabled in round 3. One of the tournament ironjaws players got tabled as well. It was the TK player's 3rd game of AOS.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 17:01
well, I don't normally do this, but if anyone is interested let me know by PM: https://imgur.com/a/cpHSK
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 17:36
Can you guys try to duplicate #449 in your CATs as a secondary detachment? Not the primary, the sub one of the same type. Like CSM in this screenshot:
once it uploads...
image.png
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 25 2017 17:38
Well, didn't check thoroughly, but seems like another example of BattleScribe/Desktop-Alphas#166
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 25 2017 17:39
yeah, taking multiple of the same weapon only counts the cost of the first one
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 17:40
Thanks, hope it will actually be fixed
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 17:50
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 17:52
Isn't that the conclusion we came to?
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 25 2017 17:52
So, the Space Marine codex white dwarf cover has leaked.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 17:53
That was my first thought and how I built my cat originally, but then there was a suggestion that it's an ability so it's free...
Now it's definitely pay to play
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 25 2017 17:53
Likewise, FW customer service keeps talking about releasing campaign books later (mostly in response to WTF questions about Corsairs).
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 17:54
Sharing is caring...
(link?)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 17:54
So if it's ability with no wargear, it's free - wargear you pay - seems fair
Explains why DKOK named marshal has no memento mori wargear but the ability, but vanilla DKOK marshals may take the wargear
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 17:56
Ah, in the particular example, the Forceshield is listed as an ability for the Autarch, not as wargear, but the Forceshield has a points cost...
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 17:58
Correct
Maybe ork player will stop complaining how the KFF is not listed as a war gear on the Big Mek
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 17:59
So in your example, everyone has to pay for DKOK memento mori...
James
@skonk
Jun 25 2017 18:01
@capitaladot where can this be seen?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 18:07
I can't find anything on the WD cover.. links?
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 18:07
Finally finished the renegade and heretic CAT(ISH) still missing points an PL but otherwise pretty happy about it, where can i put it for a readthrough ? and is anyone interested in helping me out just function testing it ? then i will crunch the points in the meantime :)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 18:08
No one dude has it as an ability, no wargear
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 25 2017 18:08
if you put it up as a pull request, people should be able to review it via the guthub app
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 18:09
okay, but not quite interested in it getting out before points are included ?
hehe guthub
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 25 2017 18:09
im not good at typing. good job it isnt my job or anything...
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 18:10
just found a new nick for the misses
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 25 2017 18:10
just say on the PR its not ready, then when it is ready let one of us know so we can merge it
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 25 2017 18:17
cant decide if i like those reivers or not
their legs look too thin, maybe its just the perspective
James
@skonk
Jun 25 2017 18:24
Would still like to see this WD cover :(
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 18:29
created pull request, if anyone would help function test i would apreciate it :D
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 25 2017 18:46

Oh, I'll just leave this here: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1851315258522438&id=1575682476085719

Whaaat why. WHY, GW. Why do you always have to complicate things.

So I should add point cost of Target Lock to a model that doesn't list it as it's wargear, but has an ability which is named Target Lock and has the same text as that wargear's ability? I hate that. No logic.

Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 19:02
How are you both reading that differently then I am?
I'm reading it as if it's an inherent ability (no wargear listed, just ability) it's free. If it's listed as wargear you pay
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 19:05
@alphalas so that dude, that has it as an ability, still has to pay. Same as an Autarch, listed as an ability, not wargear, still has to pay.
OK, Forceshield has a point value, so everyone has to pay for it.
If target lock has a points value, everyone with it listed in their profile, has to pay for ut
Same with the memento mori, if it has a points cost in the index, everyone with that listed anywhere on their profile, has to pay.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 25 2017 19:20

Ok, I'm not fixing anything until they FAQ it officially in a document. I call bullshit. The first page of every index describes explicitly parts of Datasheet, and 5. Unit Composition & Wargear says

This tells you what models are in the unit and covers the basic weapons and equipment the models are armed with."

(emphasis mine)

Then we have 8. Abilities

Many units have exciting special abilities that are not covered by the core rules. [...]

In every Points Cost appendix they state then:

[...] Simply add together the points values of all your models, as well as the wargear they are equipped with, to determine [...]"

Abilities are neither models nor wargear, nor equipment. Why on earth would you pay for them.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 19:21
Exactly
James
@skonk
Jun 25 2017 19:22
Screenshot this conversation and send it to the GW guy on facebook :)
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 19:22
Probably not the wisest idea lol, look at us, we're the BS guys!
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 19:22
Which is what I understand that as saying
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 25 2017 19:24
@cartag it's hard for me to believe they do not know about us. And it's really not hard to find us, we have a very green button "join us on gitter" right at the top of README :D
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 19:25
tbh, a Forceshield IS a piece of wargear, and jsut because it is listed as an ability, doesn't change the fact that it has a points cost so it should be paid for..
James
@skonk
Jun 25 2017 19:26
So... you're saying... someone could be a GW spy?
I think it's that guy over there
skonk @skonk points
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 25 2017 19:27

Ok, so what about this:

Deathwing Knights (Dark Angels)
Composition:

Each Deathwing Knight is armed with a mace of absolution and a storm shield.

Abilities:

Storm Shield: Models in this unit have a 3+ invulnerable save.

So now what, you have two storm shields?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 19:28
no, that would be silly
it would be better if they listed wargear "properly" i.e. for the Autarch "The Autarch has a shuriken pistol and a forceshield
"
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 25 2017 19:29
Damn right it would :<
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 19:29
but then people would say "what can I replace my Forceshield with?"
so they could try to run an extra weapon
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 19:30
I'm saying I think it's logical that if a model has an ability with no accompanying wargear listed, it's free - if there's wargear listed to accompany it costs
Which I still read that response as confirming
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 19:32
I believe that for "sundry" wargear that is not explicitly a weapon (or in place of a weapon) GW decided only to list it as an ability
in order to avoid cluttering the description of what weapons the model has
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 19:39
I'm sorry @alphalas but I don't know what to say. The guy asks if he has to pay for the Forceshield for an Autarch which is listed only as an ability for the Autarch, but has a points cost in the points list. The first part of the response says "if it has a points cost, you pay for it" Yeah, it's not quite as black and white as I was reading it
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 19:39
Now you see why ;)
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 19:44
why couldn't they just have not written the second sentance...
sod it, I'm going to follow up
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 25 2017 19:47
googling "curing time brown stuff" - every other search result is about vaginal discharge :S
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 19:49
right, nope, got it, the Forceshield is listed under the "other wargear" section of the points index
so it is a piece of wargear
so you have to pay
an inherent ability would not be listed under "Other Wargear" since it is a 'true' ability
as opposed to a conferred ability from a piece of wargear
does that follow
???
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 25 2017 19:51
It does, but as it's a FB answer, I'm not fixing anything for T'au until errata/FAQ/designer's commentary officially says that.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 19:53
well, for me, it is pretty clear that a Forceshield is a piece of wargear, and (unless otherwise stated) a model has to pay for all its wargear on top of its base cost
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 19:56
But then there's the question of is it wargear if it's not listed as such?
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 20:03
Damnit @skonk you caught me, I'm a GW spy. /s
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 20:03
it is listed in the points list as "other wargear". If it is default equipment that cannot be changed it doesn't need to be explicitly listed as wargear on the models' profile
a good example is the Hemlock Wraithfighter. It has a Mindshock Pod and Spirit Stones. Mindshock pod is obviously a piece of equipment IRL (hahaah!! ScFi FTW), as are spirit stones, but the pod is not listed as wargear in the points section, the stones are
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 20:07
farseers/warlocks and rune armor also come to mind
and spiritseers
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 20:09
yup
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 20:49
Well did the points, so a check from maintainers would be nice.
and if the RH checks out i think it is ready for merge
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 21:05
checking it out
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 21:05
awesome thanks
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 21:14
There's a new psyker profile in GST, it outputs in a table format, much easier to read.
Check the psykers in TS, you can see how it looks
I'm on Malefic Lord now, set things like the Warp Possession as a profile, abilities type rather than a rule. It will put it with the rest of the profile rather than just at the bottom.
Other reason for the Psyker profile rather than as a rule is if you have two units (Rogue Psyker Coven and Renegade Commander for instance) it will only show one Rule called Psyker, so the rules for all the various units won't appear at the bottom
I'm gonna start a list, will be easier to track your work
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 21:20
yeah i am not quite hooked on way to much in the profile entry as it clutters above stats
and as for the psychic rules it is 2 different rules ;) they can cast differnt number of spells
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 21:20
Yes, I know it is, but it doesn't output as two different rules
image.png
If the name is the same, it will only list it one time
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 21:22
ah i see
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 21:23
if you have it summarize rules, you can get this with the profile type
image.png
If you'd rather read the sentence to find the information instead of looking at a table feel free though
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 21:32
Psyker.png
Done, looks prettier
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 21:33
what discipline does the Rogue Psyker get extra powers from?
and I'm making a list
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 21:34
Renegade and Heretics just like Malefic
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 21:35
they also only know 1 power, not 2
James
@skonk
Jun 25 2017 21:37
were you making it so you could assign which spell you were giving to each psyker?
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 21:38
yeah you can choose the powers on them
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 21:40
Short list so far:

Colossus Bombard - missing points
Colossus Bombard - no default wargear
Colossus Bombard - missing Explodes
Colossus Bombard - missing Smoke Launchers
Colossus Bombard - missing Vehicle Squadron
Colossus Bombard - Pintle mount not min/max 1 choice
Salamander Scout Tank - change Scout vehicle to profile ability instead of rule
Arvus Lighter - weapon choices should be entry group, max 1, have "two hellstrike missiles" and "two twin heavy stubbers" as selections with nested entry for each, with min/max 2 constraints
Valkyrie - no default wargear selected

Weapon point cost fixes
Autocannon 15 pts not 20
Heavy bolter 8 pts not 10
Twin Autocannon 25 pts not 33

Earthshaker Battery missing default first cannon, no immobile rule
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 21:43
Earthshaker has immobile profile, quick fix since immobile GST rule suddenly dissapeared
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 21:44
Renegade Enforcer - no default wargear, nested without needing to be, autopistol should not be 20 pts
plasma pistol should be 5 pts, not 7
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 21:44
WTF those i have remedied already....
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 21:45
Not with what I just downloaded
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 21:46
yeah don't know how that happened....
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 21:46
Go back through one unit at a time in the roster editor and check each unit, you'll see stuff a lot quicker that way
Best practice should be to list all wargear, including frag/krak grenades as items, not just a profile
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 21:48
yeah after using alot of time this evening on it i am heading of to bed, but if you find anymore put it in #381 i will go at it
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 21:48
there's a shared entry in GST that you can select, just set min/max 1
There's enough bugs that you may want to go through it again on your own also, if I can spot all that in a half hour, there's likely a lot more
James
@skonk
Jun 25 2017 21:50
Btw, have you seen the major fuckup with renegades?
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 21:51
most likely, just like any other CAT out there, easy now ;) i haven't claimed it perfect i said it's ready to go as V1 :)
James
@skonk
Jun 25 2017 21:51
In the army list page it has a list of all of the guard units you can use as renegades
and then it says this
image.png
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 21:52
wow
James
@skonk
Jun 25 2017 21:52
saying if a renegades unit is not on the list.. it can'#t be renegades...
but also, the list only has AM units
the following pages show all the renegades specific units
but they aint on the "list"
so rules as written, you can only use the AM units and you can't actually use the proper renegades specific units
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 21:53
hehe Yey :) Forgeworld and their grammar
cartag
@cartag
Jun 25 2017 21:54
this would be one of those times we have to do what was obviously intended instead of written
James
@skonk
Jun 25 2017 21:55
"If a Renegades and Heretics unit is not on the list, it cannot be from the RENEGADES AND HERETICS" <- how did not one involved not see that line and go "wtf?" ?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 21:55
proofreading = 0
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 25 2017 21:56
think they put most of the index books together in a cellar 3 a'clock in the morning on the 16th
James
@skonk
Jun 25 2017 22:03
aye, rush job
they've only had 18+ months to work on it
it#s not like people write novels in that time or owt
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 22:07
perhaps they were too busy "playtesting"
James
@skonk
Jun 25 2017 22:07
:)
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 22:34
here's another good one... the Corsair Cloud Dancer Felarch may replace his lasblaster with either a Dissonance Pistol of a Void Blade. Which is great, apart from the fact he doesn't have a lasblaster in the first place, and might find it hard to carry one whilst riding a jetbike... :worried:
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 25 2017 22:45
and with that, the Corsairs are ready
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 23:01
Do remember guys that as much as people think FW are getting some kind of heads up from main GW office, 90% of the time they don't
James
@skonk
Jun 25 2017 23:02
It's the same company
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 23:02
Jeremy Vetock was in my local GW a couple months ago and my friend had a chance to ask him about that, and basically FW always has to ask for stuff, and if they have no idea its coming they don't know to ask for it, so they get blindsided a lot.
99% of the time the main office doesn't give them shit or care
dumb, but I wouldn't be so quick to blame the FW writers, blame GW/FW management
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 25 2017 23:05
see i have to think that's more because FW always wants to be independent of GW
i mean, look at the HH stuff.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 25 2017 23:06
they want the creative freedom in some respects, but right now the quote from the horse's mouth is that the lack of collaboration is proving to be a massive headache for them
"We got more back and forth during the older IA books than we do now"