Is there a disadvantage to mutil charging now?
Getting fired on in overwatch by two units?
yeah that's pretty much it.
Hmmm...
Seems the guidelines weren't used for Heretic Astartes :<
So I've changed them, since that catalogue is already public
huh?
Oh, not a big deal. Just naming thing from #3
Shit, I never did name change the CAT did I
Seems not. Too late. We'll live.
Let's just keep everything else in line then.
@alphalas before you merge your FW astra militarum subfactions, please line them up with new guidelines, which means moving FW as infix. Also, I think putting Astra Militarum in the middle might be a bit too much, it loses readability (and the idea is to be "TopFaction - MostSpecificSubFaction" anyway)
Astra Telepatica don't have Astra Militarum in the middle, nor do Thousand Sons etc.
ok so imp- [FW] elysians or DKOK?
well astra is a seperate faction ;)
but will do
most specific
Back from my saturday of gaming
thoughts from 4 games:
razorbacks are scary good now
landraiders make GK work, and I need 2 more of them (I think the single vortimer raider killed more stuff than the rest of my army)
if you're taking deathwatch, take combis because GW can't write rules properly and at the moment you are allowed to shove SI ammo through combi-wepon boltguns and shoot the combi as well
deathwatch aren't quite as shafted as I initially suspected, primarily because of cheap and widespread access to power swords making them multipurpose squads in an edition that rewards multipurpose units
on a more battlescribe related note, do you guys mind if I add stuff to the assumed amendments section as I find them? (been going through FW xenos book for part of last night)
since I'm using the same list for the mobile files to keep things consistent for users
@WindstormSCR I have found the same thing with GK; and I have three of them! Just need to figure out how to load them out...
speaking of which, i should finish that FW entry for GK tonight; got a little busy sadly the last few days :(
@WindstormSCR what load out on the razorbacks
was running 3, 1 assaults 2 laserbacks
the vortimer raider is hilarious
I killed the enemy warlord farseer with a landraider charge
Vortimer?
that psyk-out launcher will do some serious work on daemon psykers too
Vortimer pattern land raider redeemer
Fw?
GK FW option
Oh
its a redeemer with twin psycannons and psy-out launchers instead of the normal frag launchers
Sounds gross
'Psyk-out Assault Launchers: Roll a D6 each time this model finished a charge move within 1" of an enemy unit; on a 4+ that unit suffers 1 mortal wound, increasing to D3 mortal wounds if that unit is a (Psyker).'
@tekton seems like the best way to run them right now is paladins in the redeemer with a character, and then terminators in a phobos pattern (Twin Las)
almost all the people i'll be going against are horde armies, so the redeemer/fw do indeed sound like good ideas...
I'm trying to figure out a good list with brimstone hoard.
I don't have the full vortimer kit, I just use the one raider I have magnetized and the inquisition doors on
unfortunately a 3-raider list isn't really possible at 2k :(
or at least it'll be one heck of a squeeze with minimal units
Run two and a knight 😛
not a bad idea tbh, thunderstrike gauntlet warden maybe?
i've been debating how to get my knight in my GK list...
Can the knight fill a role your are currently lacking?
i feel it can: ranged platform with decent shots
*longer ranged
Ju
Anyone able to help me with adding the new fw stuff to my lists? Totally new to bs
Fuck forgeworld...... them putting rules for stuff in the chaos book that we didnt have rules for before.... has made me want a load of stuff
£450 down the shitter since the book dropped :(
disposable income is disposable
I'm just happy that the one underpriced FW unit nids have (Malanthrope), I've got two of already, and my necrons doesn't really care about FW at all
:)
first thing i bought was a Leviathan dread, and i got all the weapon options too
ouch
magnetised it all up and it was actually a pleasure to build so im thinking.. well i may as well get a second body to use the spare weapons
and id been fancying some rapier batteries for some long range heavy dakka, was looking at the points cost per wound/shot and they work out better than Havocs
so... stuck 3 of them on the order
then im now thinking, i may as well spend the £250 for free express postage
so i stuck a deredeo dread and weapon options on the order too
lol, yeah, I've been lost on trains of reasoning like that before
but I'm desperately trying not to buy anything more before I seriously cut down on my backlog
i would have ordered that archmagos they recommend to use as a Hellwright and a Xephon flyer on the list too but they dont have em in stock
or a Sicaran
but again not in stock
biab, nipping to the shop
Question regarding sisters (ad.min): Am I correct in that the only way they can bring an Avenger Strike Fighter now in in an as.mil detachment?
so either a patrol detachment with 1hq and 1 troop + ASF, or air wing with 3 ASF?
3 hours it took to make the renegade milita squad.... FICK that was a tough one
took me nearly an hour to put a wall into the GST. FW do not make things easy
@szera, you can bring one in an "Imperium" detachment
can anyone give me a second opinion on #440?
TL;DR - how much should a Barbed Hierodule pay for its scything talons?
TL;DR - how much should a Barbed Hierodule pay for its scything talons?
there's likely some major typofuckery with the massive scything talons and the hierodules
following the gw indexes, it should be priced for one or two pairs (60/90)
not 60 for one arm, and 90 for having two arms
RAW it's 90 for one pair (two MST), but the scythed h should clearly be "two pairs of MST" (as that's how the model is), not "two MST"
it's like the worst rush job of an index ever
Don't worry guys. GW assured us that "FW was playtestest just as thoroughly as all the other books". We know that 6 guys playtesting is "The Most playtesting an edition has ever got", and that "Its the most balanced edition ever", so I'm sure all of the obvious typos, and weird costs are intentional, and important to make it the best game it can be.
It's weird to hear Reece (playtester who has a podcast) talk about FW. He admits that they had access to the rules, but admits that the books are something of a trainwreck full of typos.
Hey guys, the pull request should be ready now :)
well, all the indexes are but step-gap solutions anyhow, just hope it won't be too long before proper codexes are released
*stop-gap?
I'm thinking the indexes might stay; and codecies only add rules/fluff/new units
bummer. I was hoping the indexes was mostly a public beta test sort of thing
ie. adapt the units as best they can to 8th, then fix mistakes/balance issues in the codices
well if the indexes are like the GHB; they'll just update the indexes to take care of that
I'm not sure, I'm thinking @szeras might be right. The way they talk about the Codexes, at the very least I expect them to reprint the appropriate rules from the indexes.
but they also have said re-balancing semi-regularly - which the easiest way to do that would be to make codecies basically be suppliments.
and we konow GW loves describing suppliments as codecies
look at how DKOK and Elysians are formatted at the very beginning - things that are shared aren't reprinted, but refrenced, with addendums.
Definitely. I agree it would be easiest. But it would have been much easier to add the house rule that everyone uses to the Maelstrom missions rather than leave it out, so I don't think GW is interested in the easy way most of the time.
which house rule?
If a card is impossible to score (Manifest a psychic power when you have no Psycher) you immediately discard and redraw.
oh that one.
could just be GW still doesn't like it.
as in it's a purposeful omission.
Well one thin is certain, the new maelstrom deck is blatantly worse then the old one. "Defend objective 2 for 2 turns" is a bad card. "Defend AN objective for 2 turns" would have been OK.
there's probably one of those for each objective though.
There is.
I've played in competitive maelstrom tourneys, and they always write their own deck which just removes cards that are unscorable, and replaces them with interesting cards.
idk i actually haven't gone through my deck tbh lol
i've actually seen both - custom decks and stock decks in tourneys.
i can honestly say neither was better then the other.
We've run Maelstrom missions for narrative campaigns, and we made our own deck. Point being, if GW wanted to update their Maelstrom deck they could have find any number of examples made by fans that would tell them how we actually like to play maelstrom.
If anyone plays aos
Indexes are simply grand alliance books. Nothing more
@Kohato that's all well and good, but that doesn't address the fact that they STRIPPED FLAVOR FROM EVERAYTHANG!!!!!11!!11!!!!!111!!11!11!!!!!
Again. Grand alliance books
Did the same thing lol
The battle tomes helped flavor a lot.
Hoping codexes do the same
</sarcasm>
I play AoS, I'm in total agreement
Hahahah
Dammit man, we don't have time for rational analysis when the GRIMDARK SKY IS FALLING
I'm still waiting for my Aztec Dino riding geckos to get a book.
Grim dark sky isn't falling. It just broke in half.
And nurgle popped out.
and the crumbs ARE FALLING
It's fine. It's fine. In the end necrons will still be there.
Eventually trazyn will reach critical mass and capture ever thing in poke balls.
lol
Tesseract labyrinths *
same thing lol
I'm just waiting for weather reports that Khorne has started an assault on Terra. First sign? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ2ucr74YNk
The banjo just makes that song.
One of my favorite covors
covers
Country bumpkin Khorne
Bloodthirsters in overalls. Holding a violin instead of an axe.
so um, the combat gauge is actually pretty handy being rubber and all
Is it still 30$
$12 iirc
Better than the 30$ sigmar one.
Still double what a tape measure is :/
and it's an axe-violin, duh lol
idk dude it's far handier then a tape in those small distances.
$10
If we're posting favourite covers, this one is pretty tight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAg5KjnAhuU
and it's nurgly on one side for her pleasure
I have a playlist of strange covers, take a peak: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzavdqbtwyfITk0CaGx0EyE8GQRywPqeY
peek holy crap am I bad with words today
so much slavic lol
got to song 5, wut?
I figured the version of Du Hast would cause the wtf reaction
I went down the YouTube rabbit hole a few months ago, just started going from recommended video to recommended video
I blame my love on strange covers from an Oktoberfest 20 years ago. Hearing Ring of Fire played by a polka band was trippy
no that was just so much slavic i had to skip halfway through lol
song 6 is actually suprisingly good.
song 5 is stull just wut.
still*
folk enter sandman was pretty good too
still can't believe the AOS guage is $33
good news is all the unique Elysian stuff is done.
gunna do all the unique DKOK stuff, then start working on the regular AM FW junk
@alphalas so if Elysians are :sparkles: ready , maybe merge them and :shipit: ?
i'm almost done fixing my grey knight forge world snafu, too
I've got Tau done and merged the Adeptus Astartes
oooh
so we wait
@tekton you ok with merging that thing into main GK cat?
@amis92 yup! just spent the last few minutes doing that
Oh good, I hope it's not a huge inconvenience. We took some time figuring out how to Forge World :D
i just had to make sure a couple things pointed to the right spot
So here are my contributions to cover song sharing
and
mostly just copy/pasting XML, so nice and easy
So you've finished? Wow nice!
I don't have the FW flyers save the sky talon done in Elysians yet, so it'll probably be this afternoon/evening it's ready for merge
@alphalas the AoS guage is cast metal. Hence $33
+gw tax 😛
@Kohato hours late to the conversation, but if indexes = grand alliance tomes that's quite worrying considering over half the AoS factions are still suffering that change with no end in sight
In the case of high elves, its bad enough I listed all of mine up for grabs on miniswap last week
Even so still too expensive lol
they were playable until the FAQs removed the ability to substitute newer units in for deprecated entries in the compenium battallions, and then mandated use of newer warscrolls rather than there being a choice, so no army synergies at all anymore
Pretty sure they FAQed that user any version of the warscrolls you want
Even in place of newer ones
the old one yes, the new one forbids that in matched, which is all the local group plays
Ooooohhhhhhhh
it also changed the handling of battalions and keywords which is why HE now have only 2 battalions usable
so vOv
Gonna sell off my HE collection (has a bunch of oop stuff too) and then push that into more space elves
Gonna sell off my HE collection (has a bunch of oop stuff too) and then push that into more space elves
Rumir is aevles are next tho
Space elves ftw
@flakpanda that's why I'm dumping now, before everyone goes for new shit
instead of having a plausible army when the new rules come out
I see the logic
AoS in my area is all but dead
most of the people stopped playing when half the consistent players left the area and the remainder play things like mammoth spam and horror spam
I play Tzeentch, horror Spam isn't that good in matched play
not sure what he's doing then that seems to suck the fun out of things, I've never personally played him
but playing the Tomb Kings guy and the beastclaws asshole was enough
How does someone funsuck with TK? They're basically neutered now
personality and massed necropolis knights
this is why i got all of my employees in to 40k- we have a built in gaming group and everyone gets along pretty well
Ah that'd do it
...I may have bought them all get started boxes; first taste is free and all.
Didn't they nerf the skull catapult too?
Tomb Kings are absolutely disgusting. Tabled in round 3. One of the tournament ironjaws players got tabled as well. It was the TK player's 3rd game of AOS.
well, I don't normally do this, but if anyone is interested let me know by PM: https://imgur.com/a/cpHSK
Can you guys try to duplicate #449 in your CATs as a secondary detachment? Not the primary, the sub one of the same type. Like CSM in this screenshot:
once it uploads...
Well, didn't check thoroughly, but seems like another example of BattleScribe/Desktop-Alphas#166
yeah, taking multiple of the same weapon only counts the cost of the first one
Thanks, hope it will actually be fixed
Oh, I'll just leave this here: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1851315258522438&id=1575682476085719
Isn't that the conclusion we came to?
So, the Space Marine codex white dwarf cover has leaked.
That was my first thought and how I built my cat originally, but then there was a suggestion that it's an ability so it's free...
Now it's definitely pay to play
Likewise, FW customer service keeps talking about releasing campaign books later (mostly in response to WTF questions about Corsairs).
Sharing is caring...
(link?)
So if it's ability with no wargear, it's free - wargear you pay - seems fair
Explains why DKOK named marshal has no memento mori wargear but the ability, but vanilla DKOK marshals may take the wargear
Ah, in the particular example, the Forceshield is listed as an ability for the Autarch, not as wargear, but the Forceshield has a points cost...
Correct
Maybe ork player will stop complaining how the KFF is not listed as a war gear on the Big Mek
So in your example, everyone has to pay for DKOK memento mori...
@capitaladot where can this be seen?
I can't find anything on the WD cover.. links?
Finally finished the renegade and heretic CAT(ISH) still missing points an PL but otherwise pretty happy about it, where can i put it for a readthrough ? and is anyone interested in helping me out just function testing it ? then i will crunch the points in the meantime :)
No one dude has it as an ability, no wargear
if you put it up as a pull request, people should be able to review it via the guthub app
okay, but not quite interested in it getting out before points are included ?
hehe guthub
im not good at typing. good job it isnt my job or anything...
just found a new nick for the misses
just say on the PR its not ready, then when it is ready let one of us know so we can merge it
cant decide if i like those reivers or not
their legs look too thin, maybe its just the perspective
Would still like to see this WD cover :(
created pull request, if anyone would help function test i would apreciate it :D
Oh, I'll just leave this here: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1851315258522438&id=1575682476085719
Whaaat why. WHY, GW. Why do you always have to complicate things.
So I should add point cost of Target Lock to a model that doesn't list it as it's wargear, but has an ability which is named Target Lock and has the same text as that wargear's ability? I hate that. No logic.
How are you both reading that differently then I am?
I'm reading it as if it's an inherent ability (no wargear listed, just ability) it's free. If it's listed as wargear you pay
@alphalas so that dude, that has it as an ability, still has to pay. Same as an Autarch, listed as an ability, not wargear, still has to pay.
OK, Forceshield has a point value, so everyone has to pay for it.
If target lock has a points value, everyone with it listed in their profile, has to pay for ut
Same with the memento mori, if it has a points cost in the index, everyone with that listed anywhere on their profile, has to pay.
Ok, I'm not fixing anything until they FAQ it officially in a document. I call bullshit. The first page of every index describes explicitly parts of Datasheet, and 5. Unit Composition & Wargear says
This tells you what models are in the unit and covers the basic weapons and equipment the models are armed with."
(emphasis mine)
Then we have 8. Abilities
Many units have exciting special abilities that are not covered by the core rules. [...]
In every Points Cost appendix they state then:
[...] Simply add together the points values of all your models, as well as the wargear they are equipped with, to determine [...]"
Abilities are neither models nor wargear, nor equipment. Why on earth would you pay for them.
Exactly
Screenshot this conversation and send it to the GW guy on facebook :)
Probably not the wisest idea lol, look at us, we're the BS guys!
Which is what I understand that as saying
@cartag it's hard for me to believe they do not know about us. And it's really not hard to find us, we have a very green button "join us on gitter" right at the top of README :D
tbh, a Forceshield IS a piece of wargear, and jsut because it is listed as an ability, doesn't change the fact that it has a points cost so it should be paid for..
So... you're saying... someone could be a GW spy?
I think it's that guy over there
skonk @skonk points
Ok, so what about this:
Deathwing Knights (Dark Angels)
Composition:
Each Deathwing Knight is armed with a mace of absolution and a storm shield.
Abilities:
Storm Shield: Models in this unit have a 3+ invulnerable save.
So now what, you have two storm shields?
no, that would be silly
it would be better if they listed wargear "properly" i.e. for the Autarch "The Autarch has a shuriken pistol and a forceshield
"
Damn right it would :<
but then people would say "what can I replace my Forceshield with?"
so they could try to run an extra weapon
I'm saying I think it's logical that if a model has an ability with no accompanying wargear listed, it's free - if there's wargear listed to accompany it costs
Which I still read that response as confirming
I believe that for "sundry" wargear that is not explicitly a weapon (or in place of a weapon) GW decided only to list it as an ability
in order to avoid cluttering the description of what weapons the model has
Now you see why ;)
why couldn't they just have not written the second sentance...
sod it, I'm going to follow up
googling "curing time brown stuff" - every other search result is about vaginal discharge :S
right, nope, got it, the Forceshield is listed under the "other wargear" section of the points index
so it is a piece of wargear
so you have to pay
an inherent ability would not be listed under "Other Wargear" since it is a 'true' ability
as opposed to a conferred ability from a piece of wargear
does that follow
???
It does, but as it's a FB answer, I'm not fixing anything for T'au until errata/FAQ/designer's commentary officially says that.
well, for me, it is pretty clear that a Forceshield is a piece of wargear, and (unless otherwise stated) a model has to pay for all its wargear on top of its base cost
But then there's the question of is it wargear if it's not listed as such?
Damnit @skonk you caught me, I'm a GW spy. /s
it is listed in the points list as "other wargear". If it is default equipment that cannot be changed it doesn't need to be explicitly listed as wargear on the models' profile
a good example is the Hemlock Wraithfighter. It has a Mindshock Pod and Spirit Stones. Mindshock pod is obviously a piece of equipment IRL (hahaah!! ScFi FTW), as are spirit stones, but the pod is not listed as wargear in the points section, the stones are
farseers/warlocks and rune armor also come to mind
and spiritseers
yup
Well did the points, so a check from maintainers would be nice.
and if the RH checks out i think it is ready for merge
checking it out
awesome thanks
There's a new psyker profile in GST, it outputs in a table format, much easier to read.
Check the psykers in TS, you can see how it looks
I'm on Malefic Lord now, set things like the Warp Possession as a profile, abilities type rather than a rule. It will put it with the rest of the profile rather than just at the bottom.
Other reason for the Psyker profile rather than as a rule is if you have two units (Rogue Psyker Coven and Renegade Commander for instance) it will only show one Rule called Psyker, so the rules for all the various units won't appear at the bottom
I'm gonna start a list, will be easier to track your work
yeah i am not quite hooked on way to much in the profile entry as it clutters above stats
and as for the psychic rules it is 2 different rules ;) they can cast differnt number of spells
and as for the psychic rules it is 2 different rules ;) they can cast differnt number of spells
Yes, I know it is, but it doesn't output as two different rules
If the name is the same, it will only list it one time
ah i see
if you have it summarize rules, you can get this with the profile type
If you'd rather read the sentence to find the information instead of looking at a table feel free though
Done, looks prettier
what discipline does the Rogue Psyker get extra powers from?
and I'm making a list
Renegade and Heretics just like Malefic
they also only know 1 power, not 2
were you making it so you could assign which spell you were giving to each psyker?
yeah you can choose the powers on them
Short list so far:
Colossus Bombard - missing points
Colossus Bombard - no default wargear
Colossus Bombard - missing Explodes
Colossus Bombard - missing Smoke Launchers
Colossus Bombard - missing Vehicle Squadron
Colossus Bombard - Pintle mount not min/max 1 choice
Salamander Scout Tank - change Scout vehicle to profile ability instead of rule
Arvus Lighter - weapon choices should be entry group, max 1, have "two hellstrike missiles" and "two twin heavy stubbers" as selections with nested entry for each, with min/max 2 constraints
Valkyrie - no default wargear selected
Weapon point cost fixes
Autocannon 15 pts not 20
Heavy bolter 8 pts not 10
Twin Autocannon 25 pts not 33
Earthshaker Battery missing default first cannon, no immobile rule
Earthshaker has immobile profile, quick fix since immobile GST rule suddenly dissapeared
Renegade Enforcer - no default wargear, nested without needing to be, autopistol should not be 20 pts
plasma pistol should be 5 pts, not 7
WTF those i have remedied already....
Not with what I just downloaded
yeah don't know how that happened....
Go back through one unit at a time in the roster editor and check each unit, you'll see stuff a lot quicker that way
Best practice should be to list all wargear, including frag/krak grenades as items, not just a profile
yeah after using alot of time this evening on it i am heading of to bed, but if you find anymore put it in #381 i will go at it
there's a shared entry in GST that you can select, just set min/max 1
There's enough bugs that you may want to go through it again on your own also, if I can spot all that in a half hour, there's likely a lot more
Btw, have you seen the major fuckup with renegades?
most likely, just like any other CAT out there, easy now ;) i haven't claimed it perfect i said it's ready to go as V1 :)
In the army list page it has a list of all of the guard units you can use as renegades
and then it says this
wow
saying if a renegades unit is not on the list.. it can'#t be renegades...
but also, the list only has AM units
the following pages show all the renegades specific units
but they aint on the "list"
so rules as written, you can only use the AM units and you can't actually use the proper renegades specific units
hehe Yey :) Forgeworld and their grammar
this would be one of those times we have to do what was obviously intended instead of written
"If a Renegades and Heretics unit is not on the list, it cannot be from the RENEGADES AND HERETICS" <- how did not one involved not see that line and go "wtf?" ?
proofreading = 0
think they put most of the index books together in a cellar 3 a'clock in the morning on the 16th
aye, rush job
they've only had 18+ months to work on it
it#s not like people write novels in that time or owt
perhaps they were too busy "playtesting"
:)
here's another good one... the Corsair Cloud Dancer Felarch may replace his lasblaster with either a Dissonance Pistol of a Void Blade. Which is great, apart from the fact he doesn't have a lasblaster in the first place, and might find it hard to carry one whilst riding a jetbike... :worried:
and with that, the Corsairs are ready
Do remember guys that as much as people think FW are getting some kind of heads up from main GW office, 90% of the time they don't
It's the same company
Jeremy Vetock was in my local GW a couple months ago and my friend had a chance to ask him about that, and basically FW always has to ask for stuff, and if they have no idea its coming they don't know to ask for it, so they get blindsided a lot.
99% of the time the main office doesn't give them shit or care
dumb, but I wouldn't be so quick to blame the FW writers, blame GW/FW management
see i have to think that's more because FW always wants to be independent of GW
i mean, look at the HH stuff.
they want the creative freedom in some respects, but right now the quote from the horse's mouth is that the lack of collaboration is proving to be a massive headache for them
"We got more back and forth during the older IA books than we do now"