These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

27th
Jun 2017
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 27 2017 00:00
Hah, it seems the issue stream got thinner lately. We're stabilizing! <3
tekton
@tekton
Jun 27 2017 00:00
...now if I could just learn how to spell.
cartag
@cartag
Jun 27 2017 00:01
I'm renaming CSM to Chaos - Heretic Astartes
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 00:02
I am finding painting white freehand chevrons on teal jetdar is more fun than dealing with the botched mess of the FW indexes....
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 27 2017 00:02
ooooh that's gonna hurt
cartag
@cartag
Jun 27 2017 00:02
Or I will just leave it...
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 27 2017 00:03
Well, it's really up to you, just when you do, also change catalogue ID
And prepare for a flow of issues from people who didn't know to change the catalogue for new fixes
;)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 00:03
I was working through the chaos section and I just stopped for a while because there are so many inconsistencies like the deredeo
cartag
@cartag
Jun 27 2017 00:04
Screw it, I'm leaving it. I'm hating enough people as it is right now
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jun 27 2017 00:06
@WindstormSCR use masking tape. It's easier
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 00:06
I am for the tanks, can't on the jetbikes because of the humps
it can't get a good edge seal
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jun 27 2017 00:07
There is lining tape... or blue tack putty
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 00:07
fair, I think I might have some different tape from a while ago
tekton
@tekton
Jun 27 2017 00:07
i had to move to a different tape for uneven surfaces, I have pictures somewhere...but I ended up using 2 pieces on top of each other and pressing a bit harder and waiting about 15 minutes to let the tape settle
cartag
@cartag
Jun 27 2017 00:08
and just uploaded five updated files. time to go away for a while again.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 00:08
I've done some edge cleaning since that pic
still better than grey or black primer!
James
@skonk
Jun 27 2017 00:10
@cartag the Hellfire Veil is an "may take one of" option along side the Greater havoc launcher
Going by the Imperium version; so it's either the havoc launcher OR the veil
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 27 2017 00:10
@alphalas I think you can do the release after merging Elysians, it'll probably be right on time for next refresh
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 27 2017 00:28
:+1:
i'll try to get them done tonight.
just have a couple more flyers to flesh out, points to set, and i'm done.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 27 2017 00:39
I'll get necrons fw added tomorrow
Through I'm not surprised nobody has asked for it.
It's very meh.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 00:40
I wasn't sure about using rakarth flesh as a "wraithbone" tone for the weapons, but I think it turned out alright: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/249739800725159938/329058028072730624/image.jpg
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 27 2017 00:40
I've settled on my tau list for comp 8th. 3 5 man strike teams. 2 missile commanders one with drone controller. 2 railsides. Longstrike. And 9 2x missile 1x flamer crisis. Then fill with markers.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 00:40
@Kohato you want a laugh? sentry pylons can move
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 27 2017 00:41
Wait what?
How
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 00:41
move value 3"
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 27 2017 00:41
That's like the old can buildings scout FAQ question
Ummm ok
That's ... ok
Take away necron durability. Let Their immobile death cannon move.
A bit
Not too much.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 00:43
I've been enjoying the mobility of eldar so far in 8th
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 27 2017 00:43
They're so fast
Even without jet bike shenanigans
I laughed though. I fucked up a melee wk with two D.C. Dreads
With Gabriel Seth nearby
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 00:47
my armies so far:
Raven Guard: hard nerfs across the board, nothing rewards my theme of play of eschewing tanks for jump/skimmer platforms aside from fliers which are too expensive to take more than one of.
Grey Knights: Terminators work decently, and the fact they still die just as easily as before is mitigated by how easily everything else now dies too, also LAND RAIDER
Deathwatch: better than initially expected, because of composition flexibility and retaining special ammo, and the removal of squad-level teleport was mitigated by this being Landraider/Razorback edition.
Eldar: Wheeeeeee! also I'm laughing to the bank because all my jetbikes had shuricannons for fluff.
the WK is killy but its also vulnerable, since this edition rewards volume of fire. make it take enough 4+ saves and it will lose those 24w fast
I'd imagine the scorpion will be the same, only it will be shooting/in range from Turn 1 unlike the wraithknight
WK is still good for psychological "Distraction Carnifex" purposes
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 27 2017 00:57
Does anyone recall the name of the link type for the selectionEntryGroup?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 27 2017 01:33
it's a entry link - there's a dropdown where you pick SSE or SSEG
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 27 2017 01:36
Lessee....my armies so far:
Sisters: OMG they don't suck anymore. Repressor/Easy Bake Oven, flamers and melta everywhere. I call it St. Celestine's BBQ Club. Lovin' it.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 01:38
my double stormeagle list got toasted by dominions :(
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 27 2017 01:40
Ultramarines: I know, I know, but I still got love for the boys in blue. Bobby G is a beast, park him next to a couple of units of Las/Hurricane Bolter Cents with Apothecary support for all and it lays down almost Tau levels of firepower. I think I need bikes/speeders for some mobility. Last time I played them I gunned down a clown army to 3 models but still tied because I couldn't get to objectives fast enough.
cartag
@cartag
Jun 27 2017 01:40
My army: Khorne. I miss my blood tithe.
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 27 2017 01:42
Space Wolves: AWW WOLF YEAH! ahem Thunderwolves are oddly nerfed and buffed at the same time. I miss 12" move and S10 -- it was my answer for everything. Murderfang got nerfed all to hell and it makes me sad. I'm really not sure which way to go with them moving forward.
I've had the most fun with Sisters, an assassin, and a knight crusader. Lots of painting to do to get them ready for Warzone Houston
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 01:55
since my biggest painting backlog is the army I just backburnered, I'm doing the others in an effort to spend this edition playing as fully painted as possible
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 02:01
I have a unit of thunderwolves painted as deathwatch from SW and 2 second-foundings, I ran them the other day
hammer/shield wolves are still mean as all hell
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 27 2017 02:03
Eh... They are but require support from a wolf priest
Hitting on 4+ when you only get 2 swings sucks
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 27 2017 02:10
Anyone have an idea how to get autoselection to work on an entry group with 18 entries, and only one choice is allowed, triggered by selection of a choice elsewhere in the Force?
The really hard part is that the other 17 are hidden based on that choice elsewhere I mentioned.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 02:30
there isn't, battlescribe doesnt' support force incrementing like that. what you can do is have each item in the entry group have a minimum and maximum value set based on the condition, forcing the selection of only the correct item
@capitaladot which entry is this for?
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 27 2017 02:30
Legiones Astartes.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 02:31
ah, force slecting the legion in the unit entry?
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 27 2017 02:31
That's right, yeah.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 02:31
guessing for shattered?
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 27 2017 02:31
I have it working as your described, but if there's some trickery to work a default, I'd love to.
Nah, for all units with LA. It confers all kinds of special rules based on the legion, and sometimes conditionally based on unit type (bikes, jetbikes, terminators sometimes get variant rules).
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 02:32
I put in a feature request for the ability to modify if something was selected or not based on a conditional, but if you want to echo that request to jon that would help I think. more need makes it more likely to get done.
I have the same issue with terminator equipment in the mobile format 40k files
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 27 2017 02:33
Making default an entity that could be targeted by a modifier would do the trick.
I guess it would be different than the other modifiers, since it would be switching links rather than overwriting/incrementing attribute values.
Hopefully that doesn't make it a non-starter.
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 27 2017 02:58
I would totally echo it... where? UserVoice? I have been out of votes for years.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 27 2017 02:58
then devote things lol
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 27 2017 03:35
Elysians are released.
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 27 2017 03:36
I was looking forward to doing Corsairs in BattleScribe again (I have had a small force built for a few years). Still pretty livid that they were squatted, while FW converted every. single. stupid. Astartes character except Korvidae.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 03:39
I just realized there is no eldar firestorm either
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 27 2017 03:42
Yeah... also squatted. FW really boned Eldar.
All of my Corsair Transports are now unusable.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 27 2017 03:45
Flyers can now fire all their missiles at once yes?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 03:45
yes, but most are now no longer single use
hellstrikes can be used any number of times
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 27 2017 03:46
Yeah
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 03:46
exception is the vulture's HK racks and some of the bombs
or the voidraven's mine
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 27 2017 03:46
Holy shit that means vultures and thunderbolts are fucking awesome now
And the avenger too
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 03:47
two words: marauder destroyer
AC-130 on station
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 27 2017 03:49
Yup
Which considering it was based on the Strike Liberator apropo
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 03:51
I could use some list thoughts from other elf players perhaps: http://puu.sh/wvgqT/2448c7070f.png
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 27 2017 03:53
Looks very interesting! Sadly, I have yet to get a game of 8th in, and probably am the last person to ask for list reviews (or tactics). I'm good at collecting, and like to play, but am really not much of a player.
I have heard a lot of grousing from other Eldar players at the removal of Holo Fields.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 03:55
just worried I have not enough AT, but between scorpion and wraithfighter I think I'll be fine
its eh, but then at least the big stuff still has them
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 27 2017 03:57
Is the Scorpion in a datafile that is released or need I download it manually?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 04:07
I was using mobile files there
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 27 2017 04:23
anyony in gst?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 27 2017 08:15
@WindstormSCR that is extremely mobile, should be good fun, although you might not have enough bodies... Having said that, I've not played any 8th Ed games yet either :frowning:
@capitaladot the FW units are not in the "normal" CAT yet, because I've simply not gotten around to entering them all yet
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 27 2017 08:20
also @WindstormSCR I've heard Fire Prisms are a bit "meh" but you don't need transport cap so I'm sure you'll find a use for them. I like Prisms and I have one with a metal prism so I'll find a use for that too :smile:
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 27 2017 09:41
@GenWilhelm good merge, we're back down to a single page of issues, and a third of those are Announcements
:+1:
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 09:43
yeh, was looks at that too :D
@FarseerVeraenthis, I didnt close #381 when R&H was merged because there's still one remaining checkbox
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 27 2017 09:47
righto, I thought that but just trying to keep the list nice and short :wink:
also, I notice that the Elysians CAT has square brackets around FW (Imperium - [FW] Elysians) <-- but it is the only one written like that
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 09:49
uh oh, alpha being a naughty las
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 27 2017 09:50
hehehehe
yeah, but now it might be a pig to fix
tbh, it's probably not a big deal, especially now it has been released
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 09:50
hasnt hit appspot yet - was only released 3 hours ago
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 27 2017 09:51
alpha's release was 6 hours ago
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 09:51
yeah, sorry it was flak that released 3hrs ago
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 27 2017 09:51
:+1: :smile:
but probably still not on appspot yet
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 09:52
still, latest release on appspot is the Ynnari/Corsair release
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 27 2017 09:52
@alphalas BSData/wh40k#419. Your job too! Get going :D
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 27 2017 09:52
do we know if appspot picks up the latest release, or only goes through tem in order??
and yeah, @Thairne at least it has been found
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 09:53
goes through them in order, but if we get the fixed one out at the same time them hopefully nobody will be affected
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 27 2017 09:54
righto, we need Alpha to wake up pdq then
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 09:55
if it needs fixing, I'm just gonna fix it
a name change shouldnt break anything on our end
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 27 2017 09:57
:+1:
quick, do the release
it's refreshing (appspot)
let's hope we got that in time
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 10:28
hmm, appspot is showing v1.0.18 as the latest release, but elysians still have brackets
they have brackets on the repo page, but dont have them when you download the file
does appspot not like name changes or something?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 27 2017 10:42
Hmm... isn't that the internal name? :D
That's not a problem at all then. Internal name changes are not user-invasive :D
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 10:43
oh the name on the page is the catalogue name, not the file name
that makes a lot of sense
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 27 2017 10:44
that's what I was going to say, but I thought I'd check first and "it didn't work out" shall we say :smile:
the most important thing is to make sure the actual filename is right first time, internal changes can be handled easily through the normal processes :smile:
so I think we got it in time
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 27 2017 10:49
We did. Just.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 10:49
good spot on that one, Simon :D
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 27 2017 10:49
@GenWilhelm did have a reflex not to wait on alphalas
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 27 2017 10:50
yeah, teamwork makes the dream work
:wink:
good job you were in a position to fix it Gen
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 27 2017 12:48
Yeah good thing you guys didn't wait on me lol
@Thairne no it goes in questoris - I'm not putting it in AM :p
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 27 2017 13:10
grafik.png
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 27 2017 13:13
image.png
try again
cartag
@cartag
Jun 27 2017 13:15
R&H is in the AM book, that doesn't make them AM. same for titans and knights
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 13:18
catalogues are by faction, and their faction is questor
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 27 2017 13:42
so they just lumped them together and called it Astra Miliatarum... weird.
Troy Graber
@tag8833
Jun 27 2017 13:43
I've almost got the FW ork units finished.
But, I've got a couple finishing questions before I push it to make sure I'm doing it the same way as everyone else.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 13:43
yeah, the book is mostly astra militarum, but its actually just any imperial who arent astartes
Troy Graber
@tag8833
Jun 27 2017 13:44
1) Are we adding a prefix for FW? Like (FW) before the unit name?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 13:44
i havent done it for nids
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 27 2017 13:45
i also did not
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 27 2017 13:45
guidelines say no
I will not for Aeldari (I've only put one unit in so far)
Troy Graber
@tag8833
Jun 27 2017 13:45
2) In the implimentation guidelines: "Catalogues SHOULD define all profiles and rules as shared and link to them where needed." So for a profile that only ever appears once, for instance Zhadsnark, should I create it as shared, or is it ok to created it inside the shared entry?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 27 2017 13:45
thats fine to not link
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 13:46
yeah, if you know for certain its the only time its going to be used then I wouldnt make it shared
Troy Graber
@tag8833
Jun 27 2017 13:47
I've been doing all the units as shared selection entries (and will continue) I just want to make sure I can put the profiles straight into them assuming the profile doesn't occur more than once.
Sounds like that works. OK. Hopefully I'll get them finished up today, pending how much time I spend in boring conference calls for my day job.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 27 2017 13:55
yup, that's how I've done mine, unit profiels where it is only used once go directly in the unit, otherwise they're shared
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 27 2017 14:22
what ver of AM is on appspot?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 14:23
v26
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 27 2017 14:23
:+1:
Penallegion
@Penallegion
Jun 27 2017 15:03
dammit it's so simple yet so smart, would have saved me a lot of time
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 27 2017 15:15
meph red is such a pretty color
CrusherJoe @CrusherJoe is partial to grays and blues
Troy Graber
@tag8833
Jun 27 2017 18:39
Does this guy get Rokkit Bomms?
image.png
They cost 13 points, but I don't see that they are even an option for him.
It's the only unit that makes any reference to them.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 20:14
hmm RAW he can't
maybe it was supposed to be one of the options for the back piece, instead of the KFF or mega charga
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 27 2017 20:34
Another fine example of an abject lack of editing.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 27 2017 20:42
Oh dear... Yes, I agree with Gen, not listed as wargear or choices or abilities so, no...
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 27 2017 20:59

I think we should agree in such cases to make it available as an option. It doesn't hurt as you'd have to pay points for it anyway, and makes it possible to not take it - both alternatives viable interpretation.

Same thing came up yesterday I think.

Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 27 2017 21:00
So I know this is just an opinion, but if it's not allowed by RAW, it shouldn't be an option
This comes from me speaking as a TO planning on using BS to validate army lists for the GT
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 27 2017 21:16
Well, as much as I'd love for it to be true, we've had a long standing rule to
allow possibly illegal builds instead of denying possibly legal ones
I understand your concern. But quite honestly, I don't believe we've got high enough QA to actually support your TO scenario.
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 27 2017 21:28
Eh, I don't expect anything to be 100% (even if GW releases an "army builder" type app)
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 27 2017 21:58
i would rather be strictly RAW. if people (including us) think the rules should work differently than as stated, they can either house rule it or take it up with GW/FW
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 22:02
Argument I have made before: We should not be the final arbiters of RAW, since we serve many groups with many differing stances on ambiguous wordings or handling of omissions. The goal should be to provide something that works for the majority of people, and if they as a group handle it in a way that the option should not be taken it is on the user to account for that
once GW or FW speaks on the matter, that is when it should be coded as usable or not
because by taking a stance on such issues, you create the de-facto resolution for several groups that assume "battlescribe must be correct" (I've seen this happen more than once)
(afk for dinner, so I won't see counter arguments until I get back)
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 27 2017 22:45

Would appending some kind of marker to name of non strict choice help?

Like Rokkit Bomms [RAW ILLEGAL] or for other cases RAW VAGUE or RAW PROBLEMATIC

Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
Jun 27 2017 22:45
I agree with our long-standing policy.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 27 2017 22:46
Easy to spot, might also help in future when fixing FAQed things
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
Jun 27 2017 22:47
And I wouldn't recommend relying upon our catalogs alone for verification.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 22:50
I think marking entries with questions on them would be helpful, such as the deathwing cyclone issues, the tigershark and other FW stupidity, among other things
At least then you can provide the option but the end user knws its something they will have to examine.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 27 2017 22:52

So, to sum up in one place, a new policy would be (if we agree):

If in doubt, implement the option that might be illegal, instead of denying users option to build possibly legal roster - but in such a case that:
RAW is most probably wrong or the choice is vague or problematic, suffix the entry name with appropriate marker from the following (including parentheses)

  • [RAW VAGUE]
  • [RAW ILLEGAL]
  • [RAW PROBLEMATIC]

This might also be applied to rules which create raw-strictness issues.

Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 27 2017 22:54
That seems perfectly reasonable.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 27 2017 23:23
it also helps the TO problem because it provides a nice flag where the TO in question can run through and look for them