These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

29th
Jun 2017
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 04:52
@FarseerVeraenthis i havent been. didnt even do the initial creation of the catalog
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 05:10
Hey flak, I see that, I think you got put on the wiki as maintainer because you were looking after the cat in 7th... Do you wanna start/carry on with it or not?
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 05:11
man, fuck #541, #545, #546, #547, #548, #549, and #550
i mean i can if no one is doing it. i seem to have SM down pat except weird odds and ends sometimes
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 05:15
Hehehe! You're getting plenty of practice with the screen caps... But yes, rather annoying that the points are different between dark imperium and the index
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 05:16
i get it, its to “balance” the box set… but yeah
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 05:18
Surely there are other ways
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 05:20
I mean, its go give each player “equal” points from the starter. but clearly they are not if you buy the indexes… smh gw...
its already like a $500+ for $160
hey @FarseerVeraenthis, is there a way you can move #77 to the wiki instead of it remaininf an open issue?
i guess #2 and #3 need to be pages too
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 05:25
Hmmm, probably :smile: but I don't know off the top of my head how exactly to do it...
I'll see if I can do it later
And yes, it would shorten the list and prevent them getting lost
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 05:27
^
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 06:08
It's kinda nice when BSData Anon turns into a real person and says sorry, unusual but still pleasant!
M4uler
@M4uler
Jun 29 2017 07:16
@Thairne Please man, go ahead :D
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 07:22
I need a PR or the file though ;)
shall I close the issue? it seems that the iOS screenshots have vanished
I did see that you'd already put links in the wiki to the issues
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 08:12
shall we have a little release??
@Crowbar90 I merged your pull so it is included in the release :smle:
:smile: even
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
Jun 29 2017 08:17
Wow, pushed it at the right time :)
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 08:18
hehehe, yup, I was thinking of doing one, then I saw your pull request and I thought I'd just merge it and then release :shipit:
trying to keep on top of the releases to avoid duplicate issues :smle: :+1:
especially with the slow refresh rate of Appspot
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 08:38
@WindstormSCR thanks for the head's up on Deathwatch builds, I've got three squads of Veterans to build, I was going to give the Sgt.'s Xenophase to mark them out in the unit anyway but I'll consider the other options you suggested too :smile:
also, I just realised HTH's aren't -1 to hit... that's pretty powerful!
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 09:24
First game in 8th today. I'm curious how my Dangles fare...
2 tacs, 1 scout squad, 1 assault squad, 2 razorbacks, Rifledread, Librarion and Int Chap
very classic ^^
oh and devastators.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 09:43
sounds like a nicely balanced army, very classic but there's nothing worng with that!!
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jun 29 2017 09:49
Had a good game Eldar vs Orks on the weekend @1000pt
Had Jain Zar + banshees, Karandras + Scorps, a Solitaire and a Wave Serpent in an Ynnari Vanguard.
Soulburst is crazy.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 09:51
the only ynnari i've played against brought yvraine and a wk. not as cheesy as it used to be, but still hints of gouda
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 09:51
oh, good to hear
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jun 29 2017 09:52
If my Scorps had made the charge on the turn they arrived, I'd probably have won.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 09:54
9" charge is about 1/3 isnt it?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 09:54
I looked at the list and I thought "wtf", then I realised the Solitaire is an Elites choice
doesn't sound like many models to go horde hunting though
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jun 29 2017 09:56
Jain Zar / Banshees in first as they can't be overwatched, then everything else piles in. I took out 48 StormBoyz, and 3 biker nobz before his 2 warbosses managed to clobber me.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 09:57
WOW!
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jun 29 2017 09:57
I made a decent number of 5+ saves vs power klaws. and the soli is 3+ all the time.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 09:57
that is crazy, did you go with a max unit?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jun 29 2017 09:57
yes, max scorps and banshees.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 09:58
with exarchs?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jun 29 2017 09:58
yeah
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 09:59
wicked :smile: I need to get some more then by the sounds of things, atm I have 5 metal old school banshees and Jain Zar, as well as the same for Scorpions
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jun 29 2017 09:59
Even wounding on 5+ the banshees are always taking models off.
soulbursting for double attacks in the fight phase made all the difference.
it wouldn't work as well against something with real armour, but against Orks it was pretty good.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 10:05
wouldnt it work better against armour, since you're all using power swords?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jun 29 2017 10:06
The solitaire did a lot of the killing, but marines would get a 6+ against him if you want to wound on 3+
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 10:07
it would be less effective, because if you cause the same number of wounds, marines get saves where orks do not
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jun 29 2017 10:07
but then I suppose that a marine squad would be smailer so it would probably balance out
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 10:07
how often did you get to soulburt though?
you only had 6 units, how many did he have?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 10:08
yeah, marines would pay twice the price for a 6+ save
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jun 29 2017 10:08
3 x 16 StormBoyz, 2 warbosses, 3 biker nobz, and a gretchin squad to fill out points.
so, no more units.
just a lot more models.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 10:09
hahaha, yeah, it is a horde :wink:
so how many soulbursts did you get off?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jun 29 2017 10:11
half a dozen? my serpent, each of his stormboyz units, karandras, the banshees?
when each of those died I mean.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 10:12
yeah, that's cool, I suppose you didn't miss Ancient doom or battle focus
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jun 29 2017 10:13
Battle focus is pretty much useless in a melee army.
given you can't charge after advancing
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 10:14
what about rising crescendo on the solitare?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jun 29 2017 10:14
except with the soli
which I didn't need anyway. Jain, the banshees and the soli were in the Serpent to start.
get close, survive for 1 turn, get everything out, and bring in Scorps, charge in Jain so they can't overwatch, then everything else charges to the same unit and piles in to other units
he didn't quite manage to bubble wrap the serpent on turn 1.
otherwise I'd have been screwed.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 10:17
that actually does sound pretty nasty
also, sounds a bit like the old "Rhino rush" tactics from... 4th Ed (?)
but I like it
although, possibly slightly "all or nothing" since, like you said, if he'd bubble wrapped and killed your Wave Serpent there would have been trouble!! also, if you'd not made the charge there might have been trouble, but yes, sounds good to me :smile:
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jun 29 2017 10:22
the serpent is surprisingly durable. he took 12 wounds from it from about 60-70 attacks and most of those were from the power klaws in the stormboyz. and that's with me forgetting I gave it spirit stones!
it's absolutely all or nothing.
if it's bubble wrapped, the only thing you can get out is the solitaire.
and only if there's just a single rank.
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 29 2017 11:44
Looking over Tim Travers' GT list (BA flying circus). Is the cat wrong, or is his list wrong? BA cat only allows Stormravens, not Stormhawks.
Also he lists his Stormravens at 165 points, but in bscribe it comes out at 161
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 11:46
stormhawks arent on the list of units allowed in BA
whats the loadout on the raven?
so basically he won win a non legal list? (Though it should pass muster as plain space marines)
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 11:50
depends what the list building rules are
heavy flamer in a tac squad has to be BA
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 29 2017 11:53
I suppose it could be flyer wing from different chapter, and BA patrol
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 11:53
yeah
so it could be an Astartes list, but not a BA, or a <CHAPTER> list
battlescribe agrees with him on points costs for all the ravens
Szeras @Szeras needs to update bs then
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 29 2017 11:56
or pull cats
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 11:56
im on BA v7
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 29 2017 12:05
oh, wait, it's not the ravens, but the hawks that are 4 points off, my bad
skyhammer/icarus stormhawks are 161, he lists them at 165
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 12:11
yeah, i agree with bscribe
well at least he overpaid rather than under
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 12:14
I hate using the word, but that looks like "flyer spam" to me...
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 12:15
well with deathstars basically gone, the best way to go for competitive play is probably just find a unit that is strong and take as many as you can
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 12:16
there is that, are flyers that good, or do you think people simply weren't expecting it...
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 12:18
well in terms of firepower theyre basically landraiders
and with the flier rules they're probably about as hard to kill
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 12:19
can they fire all 5 (?!) weapons every turn... cos that is more dakka than a landraider
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 12:20
yeah, every model can fire all its weapons
(except pistols and grenades)
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 12:21
so, landraider has 3 (2 x twin las, HB)
those gunships are... "accurately described" shall we say, since they have a lot of guns
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 12:23
yeah, fliers seem to have a lot more punch now that theyre not massively taxed for being basically impossible to kill
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 29 2017 12:24
and yet my night scythes hit like wet noodles now :/
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 12:25
RIP cheddar-bots
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 12:26
Yeah I wanna try my 2 cuda, 2 tigershark sunshark list - see how that does
I know how it did in 6/7e - not well
Kinda glad I don't have my remoras anymore- they kinda are useless now
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 29 2017 12:29
Heard they do good bodyguard to coldstar
I have 4 and I like their look, just don't have any cold star :D
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 12:34
dakkajet is good. played one last night and it was stripping marines out of units every turn
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 29 2017 12:37
What's the opinion on hunter-killer missiles this edition? Looks like it should be spammed to me, but I don't play any armies using it (though I like list building all the same)
with the reasoning that armor vs armor battles is all about dealing 50% damage first
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 12:40
ive played mostly power level games so far, so every imperial vehicle that can take one has done. the issue with them is they're heavy, so unless you're sitting still they're going to miss half the time
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 29 2017 12:40
ah, there's the catch
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 12:41
as for if theyre worth the points, i have no idea. it seems cheap enough that you could load up on them and not feel bad
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 29 2017 12:42
yeah, playing around with ad.min a bit. Sticking them on every exorcist by default
having one spearhead detachment with canoness (+1hit), 2 x imagifier, and 3x exorcists seems a given. 3-6 * D6 S8/AP-4/D3 attacks every turn
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 12:47
why the imagifiers?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 12:48
free additional AoF
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 12:49
does that work with vehicles?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 12:50
if it has AoF
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jun 29 2017 14:19
which, unfortunately, exorcists don't have (iirc)
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 29 2017 14:48
Imagifiers only requires <order>, not the AoF ability. The AoF ability is only required for the free 2+ roll
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 14:49
If you don't have AoF, you can't perform a AoF
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jun 29 2017 14:57
hmm, now that i look, technically its worded differently, the USR is "actS of faith", in which it then performs an "acT of faith", and then imagifiers can allow a unit to perform an "acT of faith" (which is the choice of 4 actions it can take), not "it may use its actS of faith rule", therefore the only pre-req is the <order> keyword as @Szeras says, *opens ebay, searches imagifier"
well, depends if you count plurals as literal or just a plural, I guess it will get FAQd
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 15:01
i'm very firmly in the camp of "if no AoF rule, no AoF ability"; that being said, i do have like 6 imagifiers, so if i'm proven wrong i'll be happy.
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 29 2017 15:01
Well, this was discussed at dakka a while ago. Concensus seemed to that imagifiers was AoF tax for units that didn't have it, essentially
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 15:01
that's dakka though.
they'll come to a consensus on anything that might be the exact opposite of what GW intended.
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 29 2017 15:04
:D
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 29 2017 15:05
Dakka is what you get when you try to drown a Lawyers convention in toxic waste
Gisle Jaran Granmo
@Szeras
Jun 29 2017 15:11
Yeah, I don't hang there but it always pop up on google searches
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jun 29 2017 15:14
@alphalas me too (on no AoF rule, no AoF ability) , I just kinda like to poke holes in rules just for fun
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 15:15
it's a fair argument; and i can see where people would interpret it as such.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 29 2017 15:18
here's a rule question for you then ... is a Natural roll of a (1) always a fail regardless of modifiers (positive or negative)
the latest FAQ almost covers it but not quite
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 29 2017 15:20
I'd say it is
You can reroll it
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jun 29 2017 15:20
no, if you have a +3 to hit, and your on a 3+ to hit, the 1 becomes a 4, so your good
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 29 2017 15:20
I don't have a book, but I'm pretty sure you don't
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 29 2017 15:20
@CloverFox that's what I thought as well
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 29 2017 15:21
99% sure there is something in core rules covering that
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 29 2017 15:21
MWG have done thir latest L2P and Matt was convinced that a natural one is a fail
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 29 2017 15:21
A side text
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 15:22

not even side text

Each time a model makes an attack, roll a dice. If the roll is equal to or greater than the attacking model’s Ballistic Skill characteristic, then it scores a hit with the weapon it is using. If not, the attack fails and the attack sequence ends. A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply.

Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 15:22
hm thats weird
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 29 2017 15:22
Ah thank you
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 15:22
wound and saving rolls have the same clause
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 29 2017 15:24
Hmmm totally missed that, cheers
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jun 29 2017 15:26
I think GW need to make the distinction between "roll" and "result", as they use to two interchangeably at times, eg in the FAQ, "No. If, after all modifiers have been applied, a dice
roll would be less than 1, count that result as a 1" sounds like you modify the "roll", in which case, yes, it would be +3 the to "roll"
taking it outside of that "roll of 1"
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 15:30
yeah, that's something that is pretty annoying. i overcharge my plasma with a -1 to hit and roll a 2, does my guy die?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 29 2017 15:30
I find that clear enough. They may exchange these two terms, but it's quite clear what they mean.
yeah that was covered
he does
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 15:31
Good point @GenWilhelm
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 15:31
wat. shooting at something that's camouflaged causes my gun to overheat more often?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 29 2017 15:31
worse still, you can't reroll
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 15:31
yes
yeah - if you roll 3s with 3+ to hit, it turns into 2s which means you miss; but cannot reroll
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 29 2017 15:34
it's really weird, but OTOH it actually makes it simpler. You don't get weird infinite modifier-reroll-negative/positive-modifier arguments
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 15:35
i dont follow, care to give an example?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 29 2017 15:35
me?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 15:35
yeah
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 29 2017 15:39
So:
  • you need 3+
  • you roll 3 (you can reroll 1s and have -2)
  • you count it as 1 so you reroll it
  • you roll now 2 so you still miss and have -2 so it's 0 and now you neither hit nor get result of 1 which would slay your model (say plasma guy)
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jun 29 2017 15:40
in the faq it states you cant modify below a 1
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 29 2017 15:41
yeah but I suppose if they didn't rule it as they did
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 15:42
the change i would like is the distinction between an un-modified roll and a modified one (eg. call an modified roll a result)
so the plasma only kills the guy on the roll of a 1, not the result of a 1 (or lower)
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 29 2017 15:43
yeah, they could sort it out. but it's still rather clear, isn't it.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 29 2017 15:51
I think they always mean result. Like, you know, even in what you quoted they refer to a hit roll and yet we know it's the result they refer to. The only case they refer to actual roll is in rerolls and modifiers and they're rather specific in describing it.
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jun 29 2017 15:52
so order of operations is roll -> look at the dice, is it a 1, if so fail
then check your stat and check for re-rolls, then modify, then check the modified result against the stat for the final result?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 15:54
no, it's roll -> check for rerolls -> modify -> result
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 29 2017 15:54
yeah
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jun 29 2017 15:55
what if it was "re roll failed hits", or is that not a thing anymore?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 15:56
that's strictly on the roll, pre-modifiers
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 29 2017 15:56
^ that
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 15:57
yeah, the FAQ affirming re-roll are checked on dice rolls before modifiers was hard to swallow...
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jun 29 2017 16:00
okay, lets say i have a 3+ to hit, a +2 to hit, and re-roll failed hits: I roll a 2, if i get to re-roll my hits, i need to check my raw 2 against the 3+, meaning i can re-roll, i re-roll and get another 2, this then gets +2 to a 4, so i compare this against my 3+, and hit <- sound about right?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 16:01
yes
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 16:01
yes
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jun 29 2017 16:02
but if i rolled a 2, then I re-rolled and got a 1, that's an auto fail (even though normally it would be a +2 to a 3)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 16:02
correct
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jun 29 2017 16:04
thanks all, :smile:
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 16:06
here's one that came up last night. a dice can only be re-rolled once, correct?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 16:08
correct
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jun 29 2017 16:09
Re-rolls
Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means you get to roll some or all of the dice again. You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls happen before modifiers (if any) are applied. (sorry formatting)
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 16:09
i need to roll a 9+ to make a successful charge with my orks. i roll a 5 and a 1. i spend a command point to re-roll the 1 and get a 3 instead. can i use the 'ere we go to reroll any of my dice?
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jun 29 2017 16:09
its in the column of page 4 of the battle primer
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 16:11
for reference 'ere we go states "A unit with this ability can re-roll failed charge rolls"
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 16:11
no
ere we go OR CP
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 16:13
okay, so if it said i could re-roll any of the dice in a failed charge roll, i would still be able to re-roll the 5?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 16:14
i think it's both dice for Ere we go
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 29 2017 16:14
hypothetically, if it said
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 16:20
yes, you could use it to reroll the other one
if it specifies both you could not
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 29 2017 16:21
yes agreed
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 16:22
also the modifier after rerolls was a design choice that was intentional to reduce the total power of reroll abilities, and it's why you see a lot more "reroll x rolls of 1" instead of full rerolls
since they just remove auto-failures at that stage
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 29 2017 16:35
Okay late comment but I'm also in the camp that Imagifiers cannot give AoF to a unit that doesn't have the AoF rule
Though RAW they can
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 16:55
to me its another oversight in a book filled with oversights
also the comments by some TOs in the prep for GTs is starting to concern me
because it sounds like they don't understand the core problem of 7th was the "race to the bottom" of "who can ignore more of the core rules"
via unit rules, formations, whatever
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 16:57
I've always been a RAW guy, as it can be hard to tell what's intended sometime.
Also it's funny to see the same rules for units with slightly different wording. You can tell the various teams on the factions.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 17:18
List of things my FLGS group has agreed to universally houserule so far: spartan loses the relic tag, DA/BA/SW and DW can take FW stuff, no LoW under 1500pts (because of two guys using knights to be assholes), and specifying which advanced rules are assumed to be in use (DFTS, Terrain)
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 17:20
they use 1 knight under 1500, or just play IK?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 17:21
just 1
as part of other forces, but they're still nearly unmanageable below 2k
for most lists
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 17:23
hmm, i wonder how 2 knights and magnus would do at 2k then
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 17:24
probably mess hard with a TAC list but with the meta shifting towards heavy use of APCs (razor, taurox, chimera, serpents) I could see most 2k lists having enough anti-tank to deal with it
my IG friend linked me this the other day: http://puu.sh/wvcAP/3915735faf.png
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 29 2017 17:27
Oh yeah multiple las and/or melta is pretty much mandatory now
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 17:28
one of the only reasons I'm still bothering with the scorpion is the model is fucking cool, and it should be able to remove a vehicle a turn easily
but I shuffled things around a little to add a Hemlock, since that's the most reliable heavy anti-tank eldar can get
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 29 2017 17:29
Ravagers with dark lances are also great in that role
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 17:31
i was thinking about something like this:
Screen Shot 2017-06-29 at 12.31.10 PM.png
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 17:32
that is unpleasant
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 17:32
the horror units are just x10 brimstones each
one knight x2 thermal cannon, other x2 gatling :p
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 17:36
that's still a lot of smite and shoot
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 17:37
blues/brimstones dont shoot anything :/
but that smite :D
24 S6 from gatlings, and 2d3 S9 from cannons
magnus can “character" hunt if needed since he could potentially move 36”+charge turn 1
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 17:44
only problem you might run into is getting to objectives to contest
so perhaps two units of screamers for that purpose? they're speedy
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 17:45
yeah, thats my problem.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 17:45
so far I've never needed more than 5 jetbikes to take an objective, as long as I focus on whittling down squads first
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 17:46
yeah, i know i need more models to control tho
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 17:46
so two screamer units as fast objective grabbers should work, just keep them in cover/out of los until needed
that's what I mean, I've never needed more than 5 models to control
unless it was a heavily held objective in which case I used CP to just cycle it
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 17:47
…i actually cant fit 1 unit without tweating the whole list, lol
they are 93 for 3
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 17:47
drop some horrors?
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 17:47
four units is only 80 points
id have to drop it down to one battalion, lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 17:48
how are flamers?
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 17:48
alright
9”M with d6 8” pistols
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 17:49
actually
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 17:49
Screen Shot 2017-06-29 at 12.48.23 PM.png
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 17:49
heralds on chariots?
would give you the fast
and make them more survivable
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 17:52
still kinda the same result
Screen Shot 2017-06-29 at 12.52.19 PM.png
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 17:53
wait, don't all daemons have the "deepstrike" effect now?
that makes the speedy stuff a lot less needed
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 17:53
no
i wish they did
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 17:54
that's quite annoying, just start advancing the horrors en masse I guess
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 17:55
i kinda wish they did have the warp teleport again. makes them more mobile for sure
especially because they have no transports
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 17:56
I mean, there is the option of dropping one knight and going avenger/TC on the remaining
might be worth it if it wins you a game or two on objectives
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 17:57
plus magnus means i need to take 2 detachments for them then
but yeah
giant chaos spawn seems fun
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 18:07
oh wow, looking on GW and plaguebearers and deamonettes are no longer available. updated boxes and price jump :/
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 18:22
wave serpent is out of stock :(
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 29 2017 18:30
Again? It was out for a while when 6th came out.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 18:30
its the new best grav-tank
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 29 2017 18:30
Again, you mean.
Need some? I have like 5 extras.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 18:31
I personally still like the prism and spinner, they're more specialist but you get more power out of them
and nah, I'm doing an airbrush paintjob and that means leaving the top shell off until I can paint the pilot and the engine intakes
then closing it up after
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 29 2017 18:34
These were stripped and primed black but most had painted canopies.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 18:36
I figured
what weapons?
if I'm going to do anything it'll be AMLs
also war walkers and wasp assault walkers are stupid good now
with either twin AML or twin starcannon
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 29 2017 18:47
As I recall most are disarmed. Myself, I tend to friction fit the guns and not worry about the shields.
I think I converted most of my scatter laser collection onto vintage windriders, though.
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Jun 29 2017 18:55
I probably have plenty of whatever gun spare that.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 19:02
I'm probably only going to do one or two wave serpents with magnets, so as interesting as a secondhand deal is I'll have to pass
the local GW is doing a character model for a contest to coincide with Armies on Parade this year, was thinking about taking a Jetseer and seeing if I could balance the bike on an electromagnet
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 19:42
I'm not hopeful though, they already balance like crap on the flying stands...
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 19:52
cunting space marines are cunting cunts that cannot even deal with basic cunting guardsmen, let alone cunting scions.
cunting useless piles of cunting plastic.
Game was a cunting disaster.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 19:58
what was your list? and what was his?
marines I'm finding have to go razorback heavy with at least one missile dev squad
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:00
1 squad of scout snipers
1 Tac with melta, 1 with plasma specials
Rifledread
2 Razorbacks
Assault Squad with double flamer
librarian
int chap with Jump pack
Missile Dev Squad
my dice not only fucked me over, but the luck I was missing went to him
I remember a manticore, chimera, 2 scout walkers with flamers... Lord commisar, 2 command squads, deep striking scions...
ratlings, 2 squads of guardsman, 1 squad of veterans...
you know you're fucked when you get seized, your librarian perils on the first power ever, a smite, then rolls a 2 for wounds.
missile devs did not manage a single wound on 2 heavy weapon squads in cover in 2 cunting turns
I failed an 9" charge with a 6 and a 2.. reroll the 2... another 2
I spent close to 2 turns trying to kill a cunting scout walker!
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:04
razorback armament?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:04
heavy bolters
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:04
ouch, yeah you want to take las or assault cannons
HB backs are meh at best
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:05
didnt have the points.. was just a 1k game
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:05
im in the las/ml centuroin dev squad with apothecary boat personally
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:06
no centurions for dark angles.
*angels
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:06
thats lame
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 29 2017 20:06
las/hurricaneB cents are my favorite
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:06
1k points? did you take azreal?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 29 2017 20:06
They ruin tanks and infantry
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:06
nope
chaplain and lib in a battalion
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:07
that reroll failed AND 4+ invuln would have been awesome
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:07
I dont have an Azrael either... I was kind of limited to my terribly painted older models
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:07
ah
he did work against me in a 1k game for that reason
stoopid all las pred with 4++
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:08
AC preds are really good now
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:08
combination of bad luck (opponent said "at least 50% can be attributed to that"), bad decisions and good luck on his side made for a very frustrating first game
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:08
3w per shot mulches multi-wound stuff
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:08
4 lascannons did their job well id say
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:09
heck, another example: My Force Stave libby caused 3 wounds. He rolls saves for Guardsmen... 6 6 6. All saved.
I think I killed a total of like 10 guardsmen, 1 heavy weapon team, 5 ratlings, 1 chimera and 1 scout walker the entire game
20170629_192921.jpg
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:12
hmmm… can techmarines repair from inside a transport?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:12
they're not on the board and therefore cannot use abilities
is it just me or are flamers useless on deep striking units?
8" vs 9" away..
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:15
for deep striking, yea
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:15
too bad I built the assault marines that way in 7th.. and I stuck to wysiwig. Need more assault marines.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:16
VVets with jump packs and x2 Plasma Pistols are your friends then
like 160 for 5
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:17
no VV for Dark Angels.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:17
Jump pack in and unload 10 to 20 plasma shots into something
really?
goes to look at DA
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:17
only company vets
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:18
ravenwing are great I hear
plasma talons do work since they can advance and fire
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:18
yeah I think its back to the old "ditch greenwing, they are marines without the tools" again
minimize on troops, take the rest
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:18
i mean, you dont have to be 100% DA @Thairne
you could just take a squad of somthing
from another chapter
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:19
thats heresy!
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:19
you play DA, that is already Heresy
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:19
watch your step, young one!
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:19
pfft
i dont feel young
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:20
my interrogator cjaplain will.. fail his charge, miss his plasma pistol shot and then get clobbered by scions!
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:20
just start playing complete deathwing lists
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:21
assaults and drop lists are pretty much suicide against IG now
because fall back and still shoot
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:21
unless you have 3++ on the models
just charge again
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:22
yes and no, if he has enough dudes then he'll just drown you in bullets
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:22
deathwing knight sound terrifying
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:22
until you fail the charge and get shot to pieces, staring at the 30 guardsman that can FRFSRF.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:24
unless you have a charge reroll, 9" is 27.7% success chance
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:24
libby with veil of time?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:24
11% if they're behind an aegis line forcing you to take a 2" charge penalty
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:24
DA only get Interromancy.
I slowly feel a bit fucked over.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:25
you arnt. there is a power gamer at my store that plays DA, and only DA. he wins all the time
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:25
you've got the only bikers with an invuln, and good weapon options
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:25
yeah. DA bike are awesome
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:26
greenwing got fucked, but the other two are alive and well
I'd argue that deathwing are even better than ever with how landraiders are now
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:26
time for the imaginary trashbin for greenwing.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:27
yeah. give deathwing the GK Pally treatment. Drive them forward in boxes
2 or 3 LRs with deathwing
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:28
things I'd suggest keeping out of greenwing: sniper scouts, laserbacks with a few tacs in for backline objective camping, and missile devs in cover for horde control. ditch assaults and JP HQs, just stick it in cover or a box and camp like a mother
I feel your pain though, everything fluffy except sniper scouts and flyers for RG is now trash
drop pods, assault squads, VVs, and speeders all got reamed
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:29
speeders too? ah heck.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:30
ravenwing might be better if they get invulns or buffs, but the cost on speeders for basic marines is too high
something like 100 a speeder with only 1 weapon
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 20:31
i feel that most Astartes/Chaos lists are a bit lackluster for fluff until the codexes come out
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:32
yeah 95 for a RW speeder with just a HB
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:32
tartaros and cata terminators are still pretty ok, I've been running terminator lib with two tartaros squads and veil of time to decent effect
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:32
if I go RW I have like 10 models on the table at 1k. Against 50 guardsman or somesuch
Aint gonna happen
we dont get those either.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:33
which is dumb
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:33
I'll just stick to admech and hope that that shit works better...
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 20:38
time for a Forgeworld funny...
why does the Vampire Hunter have Hover Jets??
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:40
still not as funny as moving sentry pylons
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 20:40
I mean, it's a flyer, so it has a minimum move, and I suppose if it ended up pointing in the wrong direction and flying off the table that could be embarrassing, but seems a little daft
OK, so it also has an attack characteristic, which means if you were completely bonkers you could hover and charge a unit
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 20:52
How does this look vs a guard list?
Less assault, more sturdyness, more general firepower.

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) [50 PL, 998pts] ++

  • HQ +

Company Master [5 PL, 93pts]: Combi-plasma, Power sword

Librarian [6 PL, 122pts]: 2) Aversion, 3) Engulfing fear, Combi-plasma, Force stave

  • Troops +

Scout Squad [6 PL, 90pts]: Camo cloak
. 4x Scout (Sniper rifle): 4x Sniper rifle
. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Sniper rifle

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 114pts]: 4x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-melta
. Special Weapon Marine: Meltagun

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 106pts]: 4x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma
. Special Weapon Marine: Plasma gun

  • Fast Attack +

Ravenwing Bike Squad [6 PL, 155pts]
. Ravenwing Biker: Bolt pistol, Meltagun
. . Space Marine bike: Twin boltgun
. Ravenwing Biker: Bolt pistol, Meltagun
. . Space Marine bike: Twin boltgun
. Ravenwing Sergeant: Combi-melta
. . Space Marine bike: Twin boltgun

  • Heavy Support +

Devastators [7 PL, 118pts]: Armorium Cherub
. 4x Space Marine (Missile launcher): 4x Missile launcher
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

  • Dedicated Transport +

Razorback [5 PL, 100pts]: Twin assault cannon

Razorback [5 PL, 100pts]: Twin assault cannon

++ Total: [50 PL, 998pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 20:59
hmm
can you free up points anywhere to add a body or two to the dev squad to soak wounds?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 21:03
switching the bike squad over to a single attack bike maybe
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 21:04
also, I take that back about the Vampire... if you go into hover mode you get full BS on your heavy weapons, so, a scatter laser and two twin pulse lasers and a twin Vampire pulsar... that's a lot of BS 2+ hits (4, 4, 4, 4D6)
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 21:05
or ditching combi weapons
alright, switching the bike squad to 2 attack bikes with MM and returning the master-crafted boltgun to the company master allows for 2 target dumm... new battle brothers in the dev squad
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 21:10
:+1:
"aspirants
"
or "expirants"
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 29 2017 21:11
more fitting :P
I always see my dev sergeant go "NOOOOOOOOOOO!" on his notice of promotion.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 21:15
:+1:
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 21:16
@FarseerVeraenthis wait, is the twin vampire pulsar the same as the scorpion?
guess that can be used as an answer to "what the fuck do with scorpion error"
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 21:19
yes, they are the same, although that deos point out another error in the FW book - the Scorpion Pulsar has Damage 3, but the same text about 6's to wound causing 2D6 damage rather than D6
(but it doesn't do D6 damage in the first place...)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 21:19
yeah
so either its a copy/paste error from the vamprie and should be 3 > 2d6 intentionally
or its supposed to be D6
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 21:24
or it could be D3 > D6
i.e. the profiel should be D3 damage, ramping to D6 on the roll of a 6
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jun 29 2017 21:25
its FW my guess is D6 to 2d6 :p
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 29 2017 21:36
who knows, anyway, I'm knackered so, bedtime :+1: :sleepy:
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 21:41
@FarseerVeraenthis I'd say D6 to 2d6, simply because the puslars are anti-titan weapons so D3 makes little sense
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 29 2017 23:39
yeah, I need 1 or 2 Hemlocks
just watched a battle report, they're shortranged but the best non-LoW anti-tank eldar have right now
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
Jun 29 2017 23:43
I just finished adding all FW knights to Questor Imperialis, going to create a PR now
If you want to put it in the wiki, I'm starting work on Adeptus Titanicus too, I'll mantain it