These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

10th
Aug 2017
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Aug 10 2017 00:37
@flakpanda you can pay at the event but it's better if you do it earlier
Well better for us anyway LOL
We got the hotel to give us enough a space for 96
We were at 78 or so last I checked
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 00:50
right. im registered. i just wanted to pay after friday
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Aug 10 2017 01:57
I like the boots on the ground rule
It's stops BS flier spam
And makes sense from a realistic standpoint
Airplanes and helicopters can't push the front
Only troops and tanks can do that
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 01:58
but they can try to kill everything :p
why it linked upside down I have no idea
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 02:21
thats weird
one carbines and one knifes?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 02:21
yep
just waiting on beak hats
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 02:21
at least they are making it possible for 2 sgts per box now
there we go
better one with my only spare head and this time not flipped
they'll make good successors to the 'Mor Deythan' moniker I think :D
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 02:28
i have a DI and chaplain to assemble still.
going to use intercessors plus a hellblaster to make tac squads
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 02:29
...what?
or are you just using them as easy truescale
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 02:30
wasnt really my intention to go for "true scale”. just that i like the bigger models and look on mkx
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 02:31
tbh I think running them as purely intercessors and hellblasters is better than mixing
they do the "build a unit for a job" thing much better
at least compared to basic tacs
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 02:32
oh, these will be dual purpose since im not modding them any
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 02:32
ah
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 02:32
but i do like to run 5 man tac plamsa/combiplasma/plasma pistol in a razorback with TAC
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 02:33
since most of my RG is designed to be dual-purpose heresy and 40k, I decided to go with legion color scheme for even my primaris guys and give them the appropriate old legion markings
and I hate the "white arms for veterans" thing they added in the 5th ed codex
the good news for me is that the 8th ed codex for the RG section has a paragraph commenting the markings systems in use by the RG vary wildly by strike group and theatre, ranging from old legion symbols to codex ones
which had a feel of "no one really knows, do what you like"
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 02:35
lol, a bunch of chapter and trator legions are like that
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 02:36
I find it even more hilarious they went back to the "RG color banding on shoulders is for squad type" yet in all the page spreads they use them as company colors :thinking:
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 02:36
i play UM, so i have it easy :p
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 02:36
the RG spread with the reivers and repulsor made me kind of want one though
looks much better in black than the UM blue
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 02:37
for reivers, id agree
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 02:37
this will make you laugh though: my inceptors are going to get the destroyer squad symbol
from the legion sheet
they really are legion destroyers ++
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Aug 10 2017 02:43
Did they go back to the pad rims denoting roles? Thank god
Pretty much
I'm probably still gunna run my Destroyers in 40k as VGV - I want a use for them damnit
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 02:44
only for RG
everone else is still company colors
and they painted the RG as if company colors
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Aug 10 2017 02:45
Well yeah
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 02:45
I'm not even bothering with pad rims
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Aug 10 2017 02:45
RG were the only ones with that coloring thing originally anyway
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 02:45
going to do OG legion black with grey weapon casings
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Aug 10 2017 02:45
Thank god GW fixed it so I can take infernus on practically everything
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 02:46
?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Aug 10 2017 02:46
I don't have to run my 30k ASM as VGVs, only the Dests
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 02:46
oh, you mean flamers for BA?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Aug 10 2017 02:46
Originally the assault squad could only take meltaguns or plasma pistols(iirc)
Yeah
In my 30k stuff, if it can have an infernus pistol, it probably does
So the first time I played my Day of Rev list in 40k, all 5 10 man jump squads had to be VGV because ASM couldn't take infernus pistols
That was an expensive fucking game lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 02:49
I think the only squads I have that don't really have a 40k analog are my foot destroyers (you can sorta/kinda make them work with company vets or sternguard) and my combi-plas tartaros terminators
though my local shop is currently running a poll to see how people feel about allowing (A) Chaos players to use the tartaros and cataphractii differences if the model is represented as such and (B) allowing use of the cata/tartaros upgrade kit items on tewrminators for the appropriate points costs
so far things look to be in favor of both
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 02:52
i wish the variants were a thing from chaos
it would make sense
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 02:53
they really should be, and it would just sell GW more kits
imagine how many black legion players would go for cata as the fluffy terminator option
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 02:53
yeah
tartaros for thousand sons
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 02:54
imagine the conversions you could do with plastic kits + justaerin
or red butchers for WE armies
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Aug 10 2017 02:56
:+1:
I'm planning on getting a couple scarab occult boxes and a couple tartaros boxes from china for my sekmet
Eventually
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Aug 10 2017 03:42
This is why I'm glad I play Black Templars because they've always been a "model and paint them any way you want" and it's still fluffy army lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 03:59
@alphalas flak was getting rid of some tartaros that might be what you want, I'd grab them but I can't do it this month, used up my budget
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 05:01
@flakpanda, what's missing from FW Chaos? I thought I'd checked everything was there.
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 05:05
It's just the astartes stuff. No children if the warp ect
Of*
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 05:05
FW chaos dreads are OPAF with the new codex in play
or so I am being told by my regular HH opponent who runs 30k/40k word bearers
and he's not the type to say that lightly
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 05:13
Do they get legion traits?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 05:33
they have the helbrute keyword, so yes
they also can be affected by the stratagem that lets them fire twice at closest target
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 10 2017 05:43
doesn't seem so bad until you realize that applies to a hellforged leviathan
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 06:23
@flakpanda, if they're daemons, they're included in the Daemons
Everything else is in FW Heretic Astartes
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 08:27
I hate these primaris guys. Implementing the weapon options is... challenging.
Implementing it squad based, but with point costs in entry and displaying the actual number of pieces of wargear... tricky. Didnt manage that yet.
also, does anyone have hellblaster and incessor datasheets? All i can find are the old index ones
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 08:37
do you not have Codex SM?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 08:37
nope, why should I?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 08:37
because the datasheets are in there :)
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 08:37
dark angels get their own codex and therefore should use the index version anyway
unless I missed something while I was away?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 08:38
are the ones in the box not the same as the codex then?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 08:39
no idea
would make sense tho
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 08:39
so what do you need then?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 08:40
a way to correctly implement those fuckers :D
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 08:40
the old version without the weapon options are in the index, the new version is in the codex?
maybe I'm misunderstanding you?
I can't wait till i get to implement both versions of Plague Marines!
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 08:42
nope, you didnt
i was just away for a few weeks and need to catch up
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 08:42
so do you need the Index file or the Codex? TBH, I can't see that GW intended the non-Codex chapters not to have the new weapon options before they get a codex
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 08:43
I just downloaded the SM Dex, ty
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 08:43
was going to offer, but if you've got it, no problem
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Aug 10 2017 09:00
Weren't primarines specifically errata'd for non-codex guys?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 09:00
now how do I implement them correctly...
Problem is, its squad level weaponry... so the sergeant makes it impossible to make it an entry group on model level. That would solve everything nicely via collective, but cannot be done.
Then you can do it as BA and SM did it and use one entry that increases pts based on model count. Works, but is ugly and bad to maintain.
What I'd want is show the actual number of selections of the weapons which would solve the pts fuckery too.
But that doesnt work since BS does not auto select based on modified min/max constraints... it always sticks with the initial numbers.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 09:13
take a look at Chaos cultists. I think that sounds similar to what you want to do?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 09:14
nope... cultists just use separate entries for that, which we wouldn't want since ALL hellblasters e.g. use the same weapon in the squad. That's why we collective them to match em together
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 09:14
£230 GW voucher.... what to use it on...
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 09:14
me
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 09:15
:)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 09:16
ok, I've looked at SM now and I see what you're saying.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 09:17
I'm unreasonably annoyed that I cannot think of a solution to that yet :P
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Aug 10 2017 09:18
Try implementing your ideas in parallel, i.e. make three different copies of Hellblaster squad, do them differently and compare results. While doing that a new idea might pop.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 09:19
Believe me, I've spend 2 hours trying to get it to work, but I always ran into either horrible UX or BS limitations :P
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Aug 10 2017 09:20
:musical_note: I'm a believer :musical_note:
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 09:26
looks like intercessors are "broken" in their current implementation anyway. If you select the weapon option first, the cost doesn't increment.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Aug 10 2017 09:26
Might be BS bug?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 09:26
yeah, noticed that
but I chalked that up to BS not updating proberly
since when you change selection, it DOES update
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 09:27
yes, it's BS, but the implementation highlights the problem.
it means you can take a ten man squad but only pay for half of their weapons :(
if you don't notice that it's wrong
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Aug 10 2017 09:29
well that's not good :(
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 09:30
guess its because the basic bolt rifle has no pts cost
whereas inceptors and hellblasters, which are the same way, all have pts attached to their weapons
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 09:30
No, it's just BS not updating. The cost for the stalker increments correctly if you select the auto.
and vice versa
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 09:31
well one more reason to figure out a better way to do those 3 squads..
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 09:31
whichever is selected doesn't increment.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 09:32
true
y tho... implementation seems identical between intercessors and inceptors... whereas the latter increment
got it
incrementing per model works wherears incrementing per inceptor in inceptor squad doesnt
since the first one works now and is easier anyway...
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Aug 10 2017 10:17
Look at the c:SM cat, the cost goes up in the list itself just doesn't update on the options unless you select another option and the change it back.
It's a bug with BS
The actual cost for the roster is correct though
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 10:31
and its fixable for us by incrementing via modelcount and not via the entry
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 11:30
I've tagged the link directly and not used 'model' because I've had implimentation problems before using it
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 11:31
yep, I did too
but it seems to work now
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 11:52
to be more clear: this is how I want it to be
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Aug 10 2017 11:52
@ilaunchbury stop tagging me in marine stuff lol
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 11:52
grafik.png
what I only manage to get is this
grafik.png
bad UX, but better implementation
because it doesnt increment selections based on the modifier
grafik.png
doing that on each inceptor would work via collective, but then I'd have to put modifiers on the sergeant forcing more clicks from the user to switch his loadout to conform with the squad loadout - again, horrible UX
the way it is now is deeply unsatisfactory...
grafik.png
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 11:55
@alphalas , sorry brain appears to have stopped working :)
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Aug 10 2017 11:58
BTW @Thairne I see basic Inceptor is Collective. This'll make two teams require same man-count. :)
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 11:59
true dat
bug report averted :D
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Aug 10 2017 11:59
You might make collective weapon under Inceptor entry and make two Sergeant entries, each one with different weapon. That saves come UX clicks
Your perfect solution is impossible with BS, so try to have best UX and then care about implementation cleanliness ;)
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 12:01
well.. technically I could dive into the cesspit that is hiding sergeants...
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Aug 10 2017 12:02
kill it with :fire: !
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 12:03
although I dont think that would work, since I'D have to deselected the current sergeant first to avoid errors. Unless...
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Aug 10 2017 12:04
Yeah, obviously. Two-sarge group isn't that bad. But also, unnecessarily complicated for such a simple unit. Or so they say. xD
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 12:04
Intercessors and hellblasters, which follow the same game, would have 3
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 12:06
I know it's prettier, but do you HAVE to have a separate sergeant entry? Could you not just include his profile at the unit level and put in a "Sergeant's Power sword" option?
then include him in the number of weapons selected?>
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 12:07
yeah, you could.. but that would also violate the "model with wargear" approach that I want to implement in the output...
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 12:08
yeah, I realise that (and I also prefer that approach), but if it avoids a massive pain...
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 12:13
:anger: :anger: :anger:
I want this to work goddamnit!
WHY cant we still not set default in SEG via modifiers! That would fix so much stuff
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Aug 10 2017 12:21

I think it's not that simple. Changing default isn't the same as changing what user already has "selected" (even if it was selected by default). What we could actually use is some kind of a selection modifier which would automatically modify selection itself. It could also be something like GroupSwitch which would be hidden on steroids: like an EntryGroup but you "activate" selections inside.

Say you have GroupSwitch with two Entry Groups: one for Hellblasters with Plasma Executioners and another for HBs w/ Plasma otherthing and both are full unit implementations. Imagine "unit configuration". Could also be used for Codex/Index discrepancies.

But that's just wish listing magnitudes less real than say Year of Linux ;D

Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Aug 10 2017 12:50
So, in the new dex are cult troops actually Troops or nah?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 12:56
@amis92 stop destroying my dreams! :P
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 12:58
nothing in any of the reviews I've seen points to them being troops for their own faction.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 10 2017 13:33
BSData/wh40k#1170 there we go. Good I found the solution :D
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 13:33
Cult troops can still be troops
its not part of the data sheets, so the text that allows it in the index is still valid
But GW has a stream up right now with the Chaos designer if someone who subscribes wants to ask them :)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 13:40
i can see them still being troops for DG and TS right now due to the index, but I think DE lost Berzerkers as troops, and EC lost Noise Marines unless it just didn't get shown in the review.
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 13:41
I dunno
the ability isn't part of the data sheets
so if its only the data sheets in the codex that replace the ones in the index
the blurb that lets them be troops in the index would still be valid
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 13:43
seems dubious given the whole point of the codexes is to replace the indexes.
I'm not saying it's right, just that GW are dumb for forgetting it. :)
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 13:44
Id ask on the stream but i dont subscribe so cant chat
tekton
@tekton
Aug 10 2017 13:46
Need something asked on stream again?
isnt 40k tomorrow for the stream?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Aug 10 2017 13:47
No it's on now
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 13:50
I've PM'd WarhammerTVDan
And several people are asking in chat now too
so hopefully we'l get an answer
Has it been seen?
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 13:52
its new to me
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Aug 10 2017 13:53
Doesn't seem like they're answering questions
Just inanely babbling on and on
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 13:55
no seems they removed it
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 13:55
well, there you go. It was deliberate
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 13:55
well thats wank
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 10 2017 13:55
:(
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Aug 10 2017 13:59
So that's no, then
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 14:05
He reckons Brimstones arn't in the book, but they are
And they are troops
Regardless though, with the Chapter Approved, if you summon them with your CSM army, they would be objective secured unless they say otherwise
the requirement currently is in a battleforged army
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 14:12
New DG video up on the facebook page
has a terminator in cataphratii armour
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 14:17
or is it supposed to be Typhus?
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 15:06
Deathshroud Terminators is what I reckon
Me myself and I.
@Entropy1986_twitter
Aug 10 2017 18:37
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/51SwIz5 some of my order that arrived today :D
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Aug 10 2017 20:48
IMG_1638(1).JPG
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Aug 10 2017 20:51
That's what's up @alphalas
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 10 2017 20:54
oh, I'm doing an update on Space Wolves btw...
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 20:56
Leviathans = Win
love them
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Aug 10 2017 20:56
IMG_1637(1).JPG
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 10 2017 21:00
looks scary...
(the update will break most people's Space Wolf lists...)
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Aug 10 2017 21:21
Well the SW cat has been out of date for a minute, so
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 10 2017 21:29
"those bugs are old, and I fancy a bit of BS action" ... "I'm sure it won't take too long..."
:rage:
what it basically means is that everyone can take two wolf claws
the implementation is not pretty, but it is a little late now...
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Aug 10 2017 21:50
Well I loves me some Space Wolves, so if you need help I'll be your huckleberry
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Aug 10 2017 21:53
IMG_1639(1).JPG
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 21:53
looking good
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Aug 10 2017 21:54
Rockin'!
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 21:54
sometimes i think about laying out all my warhammer stuff to take a picture of it
but i dont
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Aug 10 2017 21:54
i have way too much shit to do that
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 21:54
because i think i would just end up crying myself to sleep that night after seeing visually just how much money i've spent on it
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Aug 10 2017 21:55
but at least the army is 90% now
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 21:55
started back with 40k in Feb of 2016
and I would not be surprised if ive spent over 10 grand on it
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 10 2017 22:08
@CrusherJoe I just merged, so go wild on Version 8 and see what I did badly or missed completely :smile: there will be errors
@skonk that's a serious habit... I don't think I've spent that much in (OMG) 24 years or something
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 10 2017 22:18
yeah, perhaps it would be best for me to stay in the bubble and not to get all my stuff out either...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 10 2017 22:23
Bowgs seems like a very arrogant bug reporter.....
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 10 2017 22:24
if a big of a prat - why not show off how awesomez he is by building a single bug report with a checklist...
"doing it properly"
James
@skonk
Aug 10 2017 23:01
@FarseerVeraenthis I tend to go mad with stuff. But within the group of friends who play I have the least responsibilities that take away my income (not that I get paid a lot or anything, just got no car or kids etc) so I took it upon myself to be the one to sort out a gaming table, mats, terrain etc so that all came to quite a lot of money. Then I have like 6 KR cases, 2 KR bags, 3 big GW cases, a couple of display cabinets, paints, tools etc.. So before even getting to my models I've spent loads. Then I have several large armies and recently started getting stuff from forgeworld.