These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

14th
Aug 2017
MrRta1910
@MrRta1910
Aug 14 2017 00:29
@acebaur How's the dw catalogue going?
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Aug 14 2017 01:55
Good, almost finished with the primaris updates. I'll have it done by the time I leave for Gencon next week
Ed Saulgood
@EdSaulgood_twitter
Aug 14 2017 01:57
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Aug 14 2017 02:39
Well, I imagine ed. Give him time to respond :p
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Aug 14 2017 02:41
Anyone see the newest FAQ?
DG/TSons can cherrypick psy powers from c:CSM even though they're Index based
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Aug 14 2017 02:43
That's...okay?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 14 2017 03:33
damn it discord
eldar now fully complete at 3500 pts
until they release a shining spears resculpt
cartag
@cartag
Aug 14 2017 03:43
If it's not up by the time I get off work tomorrow I'll crank it out.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 14 2017 03:46
Thoughts on a secondary weapon on the scoprion?
was going to save my other AML for the second wasp
but
I'm torn on if I should throw it on the scorp instead
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 05:45
@EdSaulgood_twitter, I apologise for my frail human need for sleep and a life outside of updating BS. It'll be done when it's done. If you're desperate, clone the branch.
@cartag, I've got it, thanks.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Aug 14 2017 07:59
food, sleep and other activities are for the weak!
BS is love, BS is life!
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Aug 14 2017 09:16
dont know if it's been mentioned yet, but there was an update to the chaos errata
https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/40K_8th_ed_Update_Index_Chaos_ver_1.2.pdf
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 09:26
@GenWilhelm Yes, seen it and done it :)
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Aug 14 2017 09:27
yeah, just saw your commit :P
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 09:28
right, it's done for now. Someone merge my PR and release it!
If I get fired, I'm blaming you lot.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Aug 14 2017 09:28
:+1:
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 10:41
I'll have a poke at the CSM changes and let you know if I spot any issues (seen a couple of things already)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 10:43
WHAT!! It's all perfect!
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 10:47
:)
well tbh so far the 2 things are the only 2 things ive found but as i was babbling about yesterday before i went to bed, i need to make some lists to work out how to split all my models up into the new legions so when i start doing that, if there are other issues i'll prolly find em.... unless it's perfect ofcourse :)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 10:49
what did you find so far?
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 10:49
i was gonna write up an issue for these but its literally just Possessed need their wounds putting to 2 and to ask if it was possible to hide the Mark specific spells on the Psykers, based on which Mark the unit is given
the 3 god specific spells are only usable if they have the correct mark, but not sure if thats a pain in the bum to set up in BS?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 10:50
They should flag if you select them with the wrong Mark?
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 10:50
ah
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 10:50
I did it with constraints rather than hidingthem?
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 10:50
yeh you're right it does
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Aug 14 2017 10:50
what about the issue where psykers can take mark of khorne?
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 10:51
the only thing i would say with that is that it'd a different workflow to how you have the artifacts set up
it's^
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 10:51
otherwise you sometimes get BS weirdness where it doesn't show/hide them unless you change a selection.
I copied the artefact validation from SM relics. I want to go back and make it work properly later (to make it flag if you don't have the right weapon, etc.), but people were rushing me! :D
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 10:52
heh
just tell em to FO
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 10:53
@GenWilhelm, oops!
Given that the standard sorceror wasn't a Psyker until this update...
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 10:55
btw should selecting a legion hide some of the HQ's that belong to other legeions?
legions^
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 10:56
It should make them invalid, as I don't think we're supposed to hide root entries. I'll fix it.
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 10:57
ah ok
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 11:07
I've created #1212 for any issues you find.
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 12:08
cool
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 13:44
Has anyone seen anything to say that the optional Blue Horrors on a Burning Chariot are free?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Aug 14 2017 13:47
according to the FAQ, the horrors option simply gives you access to the ability and nothing else, so it would be classed as wargear instead of models
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 13:48
yes, it's an upgrade, but is it free? If it's free, why is it even an option, because why the hell wouldn't you take it?
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Aug 14 2017 13:50
same reason you would take a priest with a laspistol rarther than upgrading to bolt pistol for free
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Aug 14 2017 13:50
i dont know why its optional, probably so people who dont have the models can play WYSIWYG
and the burning chariot's base cost includes wargear
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 13:55
@CloverFox, because you forgot to take the weapon that has +1 strength?
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Aug 14 2017 14:27
nah, reason is you have a laspistol on your model and want to by wysiwyg, mathmatically there is no reason to not take the bolt pistol tho
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 14 2017 18:49

"In addition, if the unit manifests the Smite psychic power whilst it contains less than 10 Pink Horrors, it only inflicts 1 mortal wound
rather than D3.’ "

Smite spam got BTFO as was expected

Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 14 2017 19:27
#1217 have we come to a consensus yet?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 20:13
I think the answer is no, we haven't
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 14 2017 20:14
:cry:
I mean, for me it seems pretty simple, all you have to do is update the existing entries with any changes from the Codex... anything that's not in the Codex doesn't get updated, but automatically benefits from the changes in points for the codex stuff..
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 20:23
That's how I see it, if it's in the Codex, it overwrites the Index, except in the specific cases where either a) the options no longer exist, or b) the model is no longer in the Index.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 14 2017 20:24
yeah, so what I mean is, the only changes you have to make are things ADDED in the Codex, because if it was in the Index it is still a valid choice
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 20:24
yes.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 14 2017 20:24
:+1: :smile:
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 20:25
except where the new rules make it invalid, like Berzerkers as Troops.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 14 2017 20:25
yeah, so that's just a change to the battlefield role
I know people are crying about it, but trying to use both is daft... that would mean you could have bezerkers as both troops and elites in the same army <-- :dancer:
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 20:28
exactly. It's clearly (IMO) not what they intended. They want more diverse Chaos armies, and if you really want to build a Zerker army, you just have to accept that you get fewer CPs.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 14 2017 20:29
how many CP's do you need if you get to fight twice in each fight phase... also, have you tried to direct bezerk people... its a bit... bezerk :tongue:
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 20:45
:D
today's interesting argument I saw is about Sorcerors in World Eaters armies.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 14 2017 20:46
I'm not looking forwards to when the Aeldari Codexes come out
do they even have psykers?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 20:47
Well, there's the question.
So, PSYKERS cannot be KHORNE
i.e. cannot take a Mark of Khorne.
image.png
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 14 2017 20:48
righto
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 20:48
However, the way I parse this next section
image.png
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 14 2017 20:49
so you end up with a soupy army
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 20:49
is that World Eaters can take Psykers which are not Khorne, because they must take Khorne IF THEY ARE ABLE TO, which psykers cannot.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 14 2017 20:50
oh yeah...
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 20:50
but, you could interpret it that if they have the option to take a Mark, they must take Khorne.
which means you can't choose psykers
because they can never be Khorne.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 14 2017 20:52
yeah, it is a bit of a brain scramble
tbh, its not fluffy for WE to have psykers
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 20:54
yes, and that's almost certainly what is intended.
because they've never had psykers, because Khorne hates them.
But they can take Plague Marines, Noise Marines and Rubric marines, because they can't ever choose to be Khorne, so they're excepted.
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 20:59
tbh i wouldn't even bother trying to support stuff you know GW don't intend
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 21:00
they should have just left in the Servants of X rule from the Index, at least that was clear.
if the unit has <MARK OF CHAOS> it must be KHORNE/SLAANESH for WE/EC.
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 21:01
pretty sure GW don't intend World Eaters to run with any Cult units other than Berzerkers
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 21:02
They were valid options in the Index as well.
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 21:03
Add the following to the end of this paragraph:
‘If a unit has the Tzeentch, Nurgle or Slaanesh
keywords, it cannot be from the World Eaters Legion.’
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 21:04
yeah, sorry, forgot about the FAQ.
they were valid options until they FAQed them out.
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 21:04
aye
but the addition of the FAQ shows intention that they dont want cult units in the wrong legions :)
so if the codex seems to imply you can, i think its safe to assume its wrong
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 21:05
yes, but we'll have to wait until next week when they FAQ it :D
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 21:05
also we have to take into account the uselessness of the english language
the codex says they have to be mark of horne if they can
khorne^
well plague marines can have a mark, its just fixed
so i read the codex as meaning that if a unit can have a mark (either by you picking one or it simply having one as standard) then it must be khorne to be in WE
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 14 2017 21:07
they'd almost have been better off saying "if a unit cannot take a Mark of Khorne, it cannot be part of a World Eaters army
"
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 21:07
yes, that is what they did in the FAQ.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 14 2017 21:07
epic :+1: I've not read the Chaos FAQ
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 21:07
are there any units that cant take marks?
in 7th there were
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 21:08
a few
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 21:08
Fabius has no mark keyword
but he can be in any detachment without breaking the legion trait rules
so as i said, to me the codex says (and i mean RAW) that if a unit has a mark of chaos keyword at all, it has to be khorne to be in world eaters
and the same with slaanesh
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 21:10
exactly, the "uselessness of the English language" means I read it the other way. In that if they are able to choose Khorne, they must, but if they can't (for whatever reason) then they're ok.
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 21:10
actually most of the unique chars have no mark
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 21:10
I know that's not right, but it's like one of those 3D pictures of a cube where it either looks convex or concave.
they have no <MARK OF CHAOS>, they have a god-specific keyword instead.
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 21:11
yeh
i meant that in reply to suggesting they'd said if a model has no mark it cant be in WE
a lot of units have no mark so it would have been problematic
but the units with no mark at all are what GW are referencing when they say "if it can" imo
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 21:13
In your interpretation of the text.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 14 2017 21:13
yeah, if it has <mark of chaos> it must be Khorne, or it's out
but yeah, keep it fluffy and wait ofr the bug reports :-)
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 21:14
let me put it this way; in your opinion does games workshop want plague marines in a we detachment?
based on previous FAQ's and such
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Aug 14 2017 21:14
yeah, course, why not!??!?!? (fluff writer dies...)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 21:14
no, I don't think they do. I just think their wording is bad and they should have kept the nice clear Servant of X rule they had in the Index.
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 21:15
ok
so
put on your logic hat
and read the paragraph in the codex with what you just said in mind
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 21:15
which specifically said, if they can't be Khorne/Slaanesh, they can't be in WE/EC.
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 21:16
which you know is not what they intend
is poorly worded english
so since you KNOW its not intended, why support it?
but anyway, as you said, we'l probably get an FAQ for the dex in a week or so
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 21:19
yeah, the SM one was a week after release, so I don't expect this will be any different.
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 21:20
i have to admit though that i'm finding these 8th edition codex pretty boring compared to 7th ed ones
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 21:37
how so?
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 21:50
very few interesting rules attached directly to units
strats are OK but its like its turned it into a card game
and i find the CP thing pretty frustrating to use, with limited CP to spend and having remember all the strats etc
i just found 7th with it's special rules on the units less hassle to use and generally found them more interesating
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 21:52
yes, especially now there are like 20 stratagems.
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 21:52
in all honesty, i still prefer 7th even now
the "problems" 7th had really only affected tourny players or players who had a twat in their group who always played like a tourny player
for most people 7th was fine
and i 100% preferred how cover worked in 7th, in 8th saves are terrible if you dont have an inv save or some sort of FNP style rule
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 14 2017 21:57
Tbh, I didn't like playing 4 or 5 hour long 1850 point games in 7th
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 21:57
but if you look at the feedback from some of the events (and this is my experience too), games only end quicker now cos someone got smashed off the board on turn 1-3
and in 7th games didnt go that long for me once we knew the rules well
and my group at the time tended to play 2500 pointas
points^
and we usually did 3 or so hours
the 8th games we've been mainly doing 2k points and the odd game thats actually felt balance has been no quicker than a 7th ed game
but in 8th we've had probably more than half the games we've played end on turn 1, 2 or 3 due to someone just crushing the other in quite and un-fun way
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 14 2017 21:59
But not all ppl knew the rules that well, and newer people even less so. 2k goes about 2 hours in a balanced game at my store
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 22:00
its just too 1 sided still at the mo with a lot of armies, coming down to who goes first
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 14 2017 22:01
Yeah people will get crushed. It's a new game that not everyone has figured out how to play fully. Especially casual players
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 22:01
its the game thats the issue, not the players
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 14 2017 22:01
On top of that. For the next year. Meta will shift every codex release for the most part
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 22:01
almost all games are being won by who gets turn 1
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 14 2017 22:01
As the flavour for armies returns
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 22:02
well i have 2 codexes now, and they, for me at least, seem far less interesting than I had hoped
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 14 2017 22:03
Then it sounds like your expectations were/are to high
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 22:03
its nothing to do with what i expected
i pick the book up, look at the rules, find them quite un-interesting
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Aug 14 2017 22:04
I'm with @skonk the Codexes that have been released so far have just been prettier versions of the Indexes with lots more fluff
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 14 2017 22:04
Then play 7th??? Idk where you play so... Either way, you are complaining about a game that is only 2 months old
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Aug 14 2017 22:05
I mean Chapter Tactics/Legion Tactics, sure
But those were expected
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 22:06
the age of the game is not really relevent when i have my codex, its as good as it's going to get until either a second codex replaces it, a supplement is put out or 9th ed comes
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Aug 14 2017 22:07
GW seems to have followed "The Riot Way" in this comic:
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Aug 14 2017 22:07
I mean, just because you have your rules doesn't mean the game is matured yet, and maybe this edition, your armies rules arnt going to be your play style.
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Aug 14 2017 22:07
Fun-Sized indeed
And 7th was "The Valve Way"
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 22:11
GW are like infants at the mo in terms of community interaction
and they're doing a very good job in a lot of respects
but they are yet to learn something that all the big computer game dev companies learnt some years ago
people don't go into public forums to shout about how much they like something.,..
they go there, to moan
almost all feedback they get will be from the negative vocal minority
and that should be factored in to the response they give it
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 22:13
Don't you just love it when people raise tickets without even looking at the files :)
what's the markdown for strikethrough? Is there one?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 22:19
don't worry, found it.
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 22:20
:)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 22:21
look at the comment on #1212
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 22:22
wait they changed lasher tendrills to a fixed 6 attacks?
ah fuck yeh they did, thats mint
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Aug 14 2017 22:22
yup
well, maulers are supposed to smash face in melee
James
@skonk
Aug 14 2017 22:23
yeh, i have 3 :)
tbh id be tempted to not be too harsh with the guy
he did at least go to the effort to track down all the changes
if he'd posted it a tad sooner you may have actually found it helpful :)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Aug 14 2017 23:19
I'll be glad when GW starts to slow down a bit, the cirrent pace of release has me miles behind on the mobile files front
I apologize in advance if you get bugreps as a result