These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

18th
Oct 2017
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Oct 18 2017 02:33
Did they say what craftworlds are getting rules?
is hoping for Il’Kaithe
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 02:34
I've seen a thing on Facebook that suggested it was the "normal" ones...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Oct 18 2017 02:35
Yeah, it's just the 5 main worlds
Try that, might not work, who knows...!
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Oct 18 2017 02:40
It didn't for me
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 02:43
Yup, that's the puppy
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Oct 18 2017 02:44
Triple wraitgknights again....
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 02:46
Yeah, they probably won't go down in points which means they will be in super heavy detachment 's with iyanden rules no matter what colour they are in real life...
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Oct 18 2017 02:48
Yeah. 17 wounds before they move down the table now.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 02:51
A big buff
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 18 2017 02:58
if those are accurate it'll be a toosup between iyanden, alaitoc and saim-hann for me
the no -1 heavy weapon penalty is nice to keep tanks moving, but the iyanden thing means non-msu jetbikes actually work
and still buffs armor
alaitoc is just generally useful
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 05:34
Uhuh... Now, is it Saturday already? Can I pre-order yet?!
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 18 2017 05:52
sadly until they do saim-hamm I won't have a clue if the really imprtant question is answered: how get obsec on jetbikes
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 10:27
okay so someone brought up the Index vs Codex wargear options again and it got me thinking.
if you elect to use the index datasheet, should the unit have the index power level too?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 10:33
@GenWilhelm , does the telepathica stave issue on #1643 still need raising?
I see you closed it for the HWT debate, but not sure if you missed the other issue?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 10:34
it was commented on the roundup issue
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 10:34
ok, nw
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Oct 18 2017 12:07
PR created for #1636
It should be noted that the telepathica stave issue was incorrect -- it was the right points cost in v71
HWT team costs are now 100% correct -- anyone reporting any different isn't using the current datafile LOL
:shipit:
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 12:12
100% you say?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 12:13
to shreds you say?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Oct 18 2017 12:13
That is correct sir. I verified them with my own battlescribe roster editor I did.
As I said...if you're getting the wrong points value for HWTs, you're not using v72+
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 12:14
What if I edit the file myself and bump to v73
then put in a bug
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 12:15
what if I use a command squad?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Oct 18 2017 12:16
Was it in the bug report? lol
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 12:17
its a veteran weapon team, so /shrug
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Oct 18 2017 12:17
Oh FFS
You're right
CrusherJoe @CrusherJoe bangs head on desk
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Oct 18 2017 12:18
Hang on pushing PR to come
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Oct 18 2017 12:18
Ah the good old days of @Kohato making the newb’s life difficult
Lol
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 12:19
I've got no idea what you're talking about.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Oct 18 2017 12:20
Lol
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Oct 18 2017 12:20
PR #1645 created LOL
DONE WITH HWTs
Ugh
LOL
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Oct 18 2017 12:21
Now we just need @Thairne to wander in and grouse about DA and it’ll all be perfect lol
They ARE heratics.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 12:29
What are the "right" points for HWTs? :)
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 12:30
most popular interpretation is they cost double what another model in the unit costs
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 12:30
so if i'm triaging tickets I know what to tell pp
that's what I thought we were going with.
cool
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 13:14
@GenWilhelm what do you mean by "if you elect to use the index datasheet"...? Either you're Codex and use options from the index, or you're index only. Points and PL are always latest, so if there is a datasheet in the codex, you use codex pt/pl... I think...
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 13:15
that's what I thought as well
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 13:15
the WC article says you can use the datasheet from the index, but pay the points from the codex
since power is tied to the datasheet, i wasnt sure what was intended
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Oct 18 2017 13:17
thats how I read it, only points were mentioned to be taken from codex
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 13:18
So we need to duplicate everything? Or adjust based on wargear choices?
NOPE.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 13:21
if anything, it would be adjusting based on wargear. but I'm just trying to get it straight whether or not this is an issue
(and whether its worth the effort to resolve)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 13:23
I can't wait for GW to put out their own management tool and put arguments like this to rest. "Can I take this sheet or this sheet? What does it say in the official app?"
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 13:23
LOL. I like that you think it will have fewer issues than we do.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 13:24
Oh it'll have issues
But, the difference is - we ask GW what they mean now.
Who are you gonna ask when they actually put out decisions in the app?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 13:25
I'll just complain to the internet that what they've said doesn't agree with my worldview.
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Oct 18 2017 13:25
they will have the power of authority tho "it says this in this index and this in this codex so I can do this, plz update app GW" .. "no, app is love, app is live, use app"
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 13:25
Then you'll just have idiots arguing that GW is wrong on their own decisions.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 13:25
depends how much access the devs have to the rules team
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 13:25
I imagine moreso than the media team does.
A list builder would need to.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 13:25
also, they've clearly indicated that any new stuff is what is in Codex, so I wouldn't expect an official app to support ANY non-codex units.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 13:26
Aye, I'm assuming the last thing they'll do for this release blitz is the app
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 13:26
so they don't "confuse new players"
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 13:26
after everyone has a codex.
and then they can phase out index.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 13:26
but muh old models shakes fist
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 13:27
Old models will still be usable
just maybe not "good"
I honestly expect the rest of the codexes to come somewhat quickly over the next year
but with very very few to zero models.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 13:27
Until I can go back to my melee Dark Reaper Exarch with a Web of Skulls, I will not be happy!
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 13:27
So, sorry - no new sisters (though I imagine adeptus sororitas will release, along with a standalone purchase of celestine)
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Oct 18 2017 13:29
I reckon they'll bring out all the codex's, then release 9th, with an app with all codex's and "select" other units, eg assasains, that might not get a codex or their own/rolled into another like knights, and cut off all these extra "rifle dred" situations, their excuse will be "that was 8th, this is 9th, get used to it"
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 13:30
8th 2018
v2.4
revision 5.
This is a living ruleset now damnit!
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Oct 18 2017 13:32
they'll pull a microsoft, skip 9th and go to X which is the "final" version
or was that macos, thats the X... i don't know what i'm talking about
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 13:33
Games Workshop Warhammer 40,000 X.0 - Rhino, followed by Warhammer 40,000 X.1 - Razorback
Both? Mac went from OS9 to OSX 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, etc.
Windows went from XP to Vista to 7 to 8 to 8.1 to 10
Because fuck sequential ordering.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 13:35
ROGUE TRADER V2.0
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 13:36
Is there a case where PL increased from index to codex? For datasheet or options that are available to both...? I don't know, but that's the only reason I could think to use an index datasheet outright instead of a codex one...
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 13:36
Games Workshop has just purchased controling stake in Privateer Press. We would like to announce Warmachines 40,000.
I don't think so? not many cost changes overall really
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 13:37
loss of wargear options is the main one
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 13:37
@FarseerVeraenthis, no, I don't remember seeing any increases
@Kohato, at least Privateer understand how to use Keywords consistently.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 13:38
Their Hordes models are pretty nice stand-ins for FW nids too
I really hate the Nid LoW from FW, they look terrible. Hordes ones however look pretty good in comparison
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 13:39
So, PL is a non issue then. My understanding of options is that you can use the index to "bolt on" options to the codex datasheet which are not present in the codex already
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 13:44
it explicitly says you use the datasheet from the index. so if there's new options that weren't in the index, you cant mix and match
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 13:53
Hmmm... What? My understanding is, If there is a datasheet in the codex, you use that as a base but you can use options from the same datasheet in the index if they do not appear in the codex. Otherwise, if you use the index as a base, you only have index options... Does that make sense or am I doing a terrible job of explaining myself?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 13:54
I'm with you. If the datasheet exists in both, Codex is the base, with Index options tagged on.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 13:55
:+1: :smile:
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Oct 18 2017 14:09
@Kohato you serious or joshing?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 14:09
For what
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Oct 18 2017 14:09
gw and pp
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 14:09
Believable isn't it?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Oct 18 2017 14:09
cause that would cause such delicious nerd tears
it kinda is yeh
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 14:10
Right? Our local shops are always at odds with each other over Warmahords and 40k
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Oct 18 2017 14:10
@CrusherJoe those would be the most delicious nerd tears
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 14:11
ooh, 3CP to resurrect your Avatar with D6 wounds...
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 14:11
that's rather pricy
I'm thinking other stratagems will be more useful most of the time
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 14:11
attribute leak is 3/3 so far
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 14:12
Well one of them is a given ...
-1 to hit over 12" has been in every release.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 14:12
yeah, looks pretty on the money. Saim-Hann tomorrow with " re-tuned and much improved Jetbikes"
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 14:12
yes, but specifying which craftworld would get it
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 14:13
2CP to add 2 to charge and re-roll hits of 1 in Fights, or if within 6" of Avatar +3 and re-roll all hits.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 14:14
ooh man, thats juicy on scorps
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 14:15
Now that is a worthy 2cp
That can be a key fight, but d6 wounds left on Avatar for 3cp is a big bite to take. Especially when you roll 1 or 2
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 14:26
it's a +6 to charge on banshees
as they already get 3
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 18 2017 15:01
so what does "re-tuned and much improved jetbikes" mean? -1 to hit after advancing? 3+ save? Moved back to a Troops slot?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 15:15
Re-roll failed charges and ignore - 1 to hit for moving and shooting heavy weapons
If the leak can be believed
Although, so far it sounds like I'm going to be stuck in the same mire of indecision as before about choosing which craftworld to use...!
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 15:18
the titbit at the end seems to suggest eldar jetbike changes across the board, not just for saim-hann
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 15:22
Well, dire avengers going down in price will make a lot of people happy - including me, I have 15 to build...
And yes, perhaps the ignore - 1 will be for everyone
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Oct 18 2017 15:23
Oh boy here we go
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 15:24
Can you smell the cheese yet?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Oct 18 2017 15:24
"So we finally balanced scatbike, making them actually have a penalty for racing around and firing heavy weapons -- you know, like everyone else. BUT FUCK ALL THAT. Balance? We don't need no steeenkin' balance! Bring on the scatbike spam!"
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 18 2017 15:25
its saim-hann, thats what they do
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Oct 18 2017 15:25
Sure, and I'd be okay with it, except I'm not.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 15:25
Perhaps GW bought a job lot of red spray and need to shift it...
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Oct 18 2017 15:26
Because the asshats will spam spam spam scatbikes everywhere and once again it's All Elves, All The Time at the top tables. Fuck.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 15:26
It is strange they painted the start collecting in red...
Arne Kreutzmann
@dragongame
Oct 18 2017 15:31
40k back on appspot 😄
Does anyone know about how units that are only in the index but removed from the codex are going to be handled in battlescribe?
will they just be removed?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 15:33
They won't be removed, they'll be available forever
They are valid choices until GW rules otherwise
Arne Kreutzmann
@dragongame
Oct 18 2017 15:37
Okay, cool. Was fearing otherwise for my rough riders.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 15:42
:+1:
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 18 2017 17:47
@CrusherJoe I don't think scatbike spam is going to be as bad a problem as predicted
8th hit a lot of the core reasons they were good
and made shuricannons desirable in the same swing
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Oct 18 2017 17:49
Rough Riders totally squatted in the new codex ?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 18 2017 17:50
in 7th, so many saves were guaranteed and rend wasn't a thing, so the AP2 procs of shuriken weaponry were significantly less valuable when fighting against cover. Also Scatter lasers were a high enough strength to threaten light armor where there was no armor save, just str vs AV. both of those are no longer true
@capitaladot yep, but the dkok entry and index entry are still usable
so not gone, just explicitly a legacy option
if anything what jetbikes need is some way to be obsec for those playing them as 'core troops' and either thier 3+ back OR a points drop of about ~7 per bike (it feels like the same issue as dire avengers, they cost way more than they should largely due to weapon expense)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 18 2017 18:16
because idk about you, but 33 pts/jetbike is a bit much
at 4+ 2w
when they had a 3+ and jink they were much more comparable to terminators so the higher cost was justifiable
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 18 2017 18:19
@Kohato NO they're not! Those things litterally show the ways and directions in which you can find and attack HERETICS!
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Oct 18 2017 18:29
TIL: If you hide to the left and right of the razorback, DA can't see you.
That seems like a rather large geneseed mutation. Not seeing to the left or right.
Might want to check for corruption there.
Austin C.
@capitaladot
Oct 18 2017 18:46
@FarseerVeraenthis I'm just hoping that IA11v3 (should such a thing ever be published) gives rules to craftworlds other than the big 5 (and not just Mymeara).
The build your own craftworld stuff in IA11v2 was actually pretty great, I thought.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 18 2017 19:49
here's to hoping
even if they just do mymeara, yme-loc and iybraesil that would be a handy improvement
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 20:04
Hmm... Yeah, craftworld don't really follow the same train of thought as successor chapters for marines... Who knows how they'll handle it, perhaps there will be an opportunity to "mix n match" traits and strategems for custom craftworld
They've not said anything about changes to battle focus yet either, so either it's not changed, or it has changed and they don't want to reveal it until the codex drops...
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 18 2017 20:07
tbh they could make battle focus nice by allowing heavies after advancing, but that wouldn't affect much beyond war walkers and reapers
and I guess scatbikes
oh, wait, that would affect guardian HWPs too
that might actually be the useful upgrade that makes it stand out then
so we'll never get it, lol
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 18 2017 20:15
Yeah, it would have been better if they hadn't given battle focus like abilities to every cat man and dog as well as Eldar...!
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 18 2017 20:23
its hemispheric directions. North, Northeast, East... :P
ah gods.. I feel like if I stretch now several bones are going to snap back in place. But I got my Cawl finished... what a monstrous thing to paint
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 18 2017 20:57
I finally caved
I got a wave serpent and enough dark reapers to fill it
in my all-flying eldar force
because some things were just becoming too obnoxious
tekton
@tekton
Oct 18 2017 22:34
i'm still not sure what I'll be picking up for space elves- will get the characters this weekend, but will wait a bit after that. I had wanted to do an all vehicle army basically, but will wait for codex in hand before deciding which vehicles :P
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Oct 18 2017 23:56
So someone was just trying to argue with me that buildings aren’t covered by vehicle rules -.-
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Oct 18 2017 23:58
Buildings aren't. Fortifications are.
...right?