These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

20th
Oct 2017
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 01:42
oh, you mean the chargus interruptus CP thing?
pretty sure that specifies during opponent's turn
but in the case of being charged by daemonettes and then using the strat, yes you can use that to go between charging units, with the ASF rule, as long as one of those units meets that strat requirement
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 02:08
I need Alaitoc article to help decide if I'm going to be buying dire avengers or the last box of the old start collecting on saturday.....
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 20 2017 06:23
@WindstormSCR I think we've only seen a little window of the changes in the codex, lots of unit have gone down in points, and I'm sure there are combos to be had and new synergies to use that we haven't seen yet, so I'm definitely still pre-ordering on Saturday :smile: along with the made to order dudes too...!
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 20 2017 07:00
Notice that fire and fade stratagem does say who you can use it with, so it's 7" for everyone, including wraith units... (which are only 5" move aren't they?)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 07:04
downside is wraithblades don't have shooting weapons
so only usable on WG
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 20 2017 07:43
Uhuh, but, could keep them out of harms way, drop them off in a serpent, bbq a unit, move to the edge of charge range :smile:
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 07:59
I'm going to do a similar idea with spectres
move, flame, move
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 20 2017 10:26
It's an interesting comparison, especially if you're running iyanden, since then the wraithguard will be even tougher... Although, points wise the Spectres win easily!
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 20 2017 12:08
you know, for 1CP this is quite a good stratagem... although, imagine the crying if Tau get it "for free" on their battlesuits like they had previously
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 20 2017 14:23
and Alaitoc gets -1 to hit over 12"
1CP to have a unit of Rangers only get hit on 6s.
Fire Prism can fire twice if it moves up to half distance. Have to fire the same mode and target both times
that is nice
This is a weird one. Why bother delaying the first Prism's shots? Nice though in combination with the double shots.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 20 2017 14:31
that is epic...
looks like I need a second fire prism
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 20 2017 14:31
at least
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 20 2017 14:31
and I won't be re-painting my current one - since it is blue already
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 20 2017 14:31
the twin shots is for everyone
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 20 2017 14:31
yeah, so that stragaem for 1CP is epic
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 20 2017 14:32
yeah, expose one FP to melt the face of a unit.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 20 2017 14:32
imagine, three FP's, two hidden out of LOS, one melting face - and you could also fire & fade it back into cover
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 20 2017 14:33
yup, expensive but probably worth it to take out a high value unit.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 20 2017 14:33
you get 6 rounds of FP shooting, re-rolling all hits and wounds without needing LOS, and hiding after the phase, for 2 CP's
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 20 2017 14:35
6D6 S6 Ap-3 is going to destroy pretty much any MEQ.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 20 2017 14:38
:love_letter: dear GW...
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
Oct 20 2017 14:57
Alaitoc is up, together with the Prisms.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Oct 20 2017 15:01
@Owlsbane is late to the party :)
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
Oct 20 2017 15:10
Yeah, app on my phone isn't always up to date ;)
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 20 2017 15:47
Also, super happy with the points cost reduction for rangers :smile: :+1:
tekton
@tekton
Oct 20 2017 15:48
i may even think about getting some now...
But I also feel less bad about getting a bunch of Fire Prisms on the field now; feels less useless
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
Oct 20 2017 16:36
Watching Twitchfeed, point drops across the board, rules tweaks for almost every unit (or so it sounds). I like what I'm hearing.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Oct 20 2017 16:53
Sounds like I need a codex leak link ASAP...!
tekton
@tekton
Oct 20 2017 16:53
50pt reduction for Falcons?!
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 20 2017 16:59
did i hear that right?
18pts base for a windrider
tekton
@tekton
Oct 20 2017 16:59
yes
with weapon
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 20 2017 17:00
all hail Saim-hann, our new overlords
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 17:28
Tbh i think I'll probably flip between iyanden or alaitoc depending on how tank-heavy my army is at the time
but definitely a dire avenger box pair this weekend
@GenWilhelm any news on windriders being troops again?
or gaining obsec
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Oct 20 2017 17:33
theyre fast attack still
didnt hear anything about obsec on stream, but i would assume its just troops like everyone else
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 17:34
Yeah... Gonna need a pair of DA units in a WS then just as a CP feeder
not sure if I'll stick the guardians in one or just swap for rangers
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:04
time to wait for the Winters review and try to pull usable shots out of it
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:38
seems like codex creep is alive and kicking...
pre-ig and post-ig codexes
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:41
@Thairne I don't think it's going to be as bad with eldar as it is from IG
mostly because eldar lists struggle with generating CP like IG
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:42
probably not
but eldar seem stronger than pre-ig codexes by a fair margin
guard would be very strong even without the CP shenanigans...
2 dexes dont make a pattern yet
but I can smell that smelly smell.. that smells...
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:43
I'd argue they're SM level, they have decent combos but pay for every single one in points and CP, and people seem to be losing sight of the size of points investment and limitations
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:44
fair enough
eldar bias from 7th and previous most certainly plays a role in that perception as well
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:44
example: lots of whining about fire linking on prisms already, while losing sight of the fact you can only hit one target when linked and are still paying 160pts a tank at least
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:44
well
look at it from the other side
what targets would you link against?
how many pts do those targets cost and how cost effective is the prism in comparison?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:45
honest answer? only things that are large single threats, such as landraiders
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:45
exactöy
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:45
and they cost LESS than 3 prisms needed to cripple (you can't even killshot them) with 3
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:45
but they mostly make their points back in a single round of shooting
that is efficient
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:46
no less effecient than SM predators used correctly
and the basic tank is still mediocre compared to a WS, and if the S got a points drop.... RIP
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:46
not exactly
you can hide the prisms out of LOS as far as I caught wind of that rule
at least all but one
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:47
only when fire linking, which will be only one use case
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:47
but you do not deny that that is an advantage?
that said SM predator does not have?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:48
its an advantage, but one I think is overhyped considering the relative size and profile of FPs
the fuckers are damned hard to hide at the best of times
also again, to keep one hidden it has to fire link with another, which means if you have multiple armored threats you can't hide
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:49
that does not the fact that you get that ability
for a cheaper price than said predator
I aint sayin' its broken or OP
I'm just saying its a difference in power level that is creeping up
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:50
the whining about wraithblades is what's making me really laugh, and about scatbikes
scatbikes aren't even that good and still cost something like 20/bike
and the wraithblade bomb will almost never get to target intact
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:51
but it exists
and if you find a way via.. dunno, psychic power or stratagems
you have the making of a powerful unit
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:51
the only way I can see it working is using the WWP strat that was leaked on stream, and even with that you'd be burning 600+ points
so if your opponent uses DS screeners like scouts, you are now up shit creek with no paddle in a sinking boat
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:52
that is the case with everything that DSes
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:52
which is why I've all but given up on my Raven Guard
to play them in a fluffy way is so feast or famine it's retarded
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:52
thats a general problem everyone faces right now
does not change the assumption that eldar units per se are better than previous equivalents
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:53
and I won't reduce myself to the bullshit others seem to be sullying my chosen chapter's name with :(
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:53
neither should you
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:54
I'll agree we got a PL spike
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:54
I stick to what I got and what I did
I painted mars - I play mars
I want to play admech, so no guard screen
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:54
but not to the level of IG, probably closer to SM
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:54
but above SM
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:54
if only because the traits apply to more things, and I'd argue equal because SM still retains a more versatile basic toolkit
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:54
and that itself is worrying. Not because I don't want eldar to be good, but because that shows they clearly do not know how to balance yet
that's SM's shtick. Whereas Eldars shtick is specialized units that do stuff very well, but fail at others
you pay for that basic toolkit with tactical squads e.g.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:56
my argument for equal: eldar will have significantly less CP than a comparable-capability marine list, because of the nature and fragility of basic craftworld troops
so if you don't want to get blown out, you need wave serpents (at least 1 per 2 DA squads)
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:57
again, that applies to literally every army that wants its troops do do ANYTHING
tacs without rhinos?
otherwise they're just screens that maybe can take a pot shot at something.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 19:58
I've seen it work pretty well actually, MSU max bodies for target priority saturation
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 19:58
thats guard...
marine bodies are too expensive to be massed
and do too little
heck, in my game yesterday my vanguard got shot of the table
on first turn, after I seized!
because I had to kill Noise Marines. He got first blood in my turn.
no transport = dead troops
thats not just an eldar thing
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 20:03
we'll see how things shake out, but right now I think we can agree that A) admech need fucking help (cyraxus when)
and B) craftworlds are similar or a little above codex SM/CSM
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 20:03
I really don't know much about eldar, so Ill have to take your word and agree on it
however IF there is codex creep my DA are gonna love that :P
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 20:05
put a different way: most of the power in the eldar codex relies on snipable characters and CP that is more difficult to get enough of
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 20:05
characters aren'T really snipable. I've never managed to do that and neither seem others, reading the forums and consensus..
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 20:06
grab yourself a vindicare, eldar will never trouble you again
we have no bodyguards, and all warlocks have is a 4+ invuln or 6+ basic
and warlocks are the source of the buffs people complain about. farseers are the same
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 20:06
and are a small unit that can hide behind, say, a small rock, a ruin or a fire prism :P
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 20:07
not really
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 20:07
ever tried to kill a commissar?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 20:07
they need to be within 3" of what they're area buffing
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 20:07
single human sized model. Never visible.
I expect eldar to not be different in that way
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 20:07
counter: jetlock, required to buff shadow spectres, shining spears, etc. big ass target
only has 4W
bang, sad eldar
(this has happened to me more than once)
no eldar units are really large enough to provide enough cover to footlocks and still have him be close enough to buff units either
even spiritseers you can see behind a wraithguard line between the WG models, and that's the one that's got most people concerned
commissars are a unique IG problem, that only got worse with ogryn bodyguards
now the fuckers don't even have to hide
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Oct 20 2017 20:20
yep.. makes you wonder what they were thinking
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 20:21
at least you can't use more than one ogryn bodyguard or they self-destruct
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 23:40
I need opinions:
I like using fire prisms, and they're now good enough to use. I also enjoy my bikes (all shuricannons) and other flying things, but have minimal vypers (1 for smallpoints)
currently I'm torn between Iyanden, which makes using non-MSU bikes and aspects more attractive, along with considerable increase in utility on my scorpion and said fire prisms/nightspinner
and alaitoc, which would be a blanket defensive benefit and give access to a decent sniper character
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Oct 20 2017 23:45
currently heavily leaning iyanden for that vehicle or WL/WK benefit
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Oct 20 2017 23:59
does anyone know what FW said about their regiments yet?