These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

7th
Dec 2017
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 07 2017 02:52
Also @CrusherJoe means army-wide rules like battlefocus etc can be categories not rules
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 07 2017 03:11
And necrons fixed to support new BS version.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 03:33
@FarseerVeraenthis whenever you wake up, any adjustments need made to CWE / Corsairs / Harlequins in light of the new version?
operating under the assumption that @Toreador13 will handle drukhari stuff
Paint dust! #Don'tBreatheThis
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Dec 07 2017 08:15
Reminds me of that overwatch game..
Also PR merged. Christ guys, I'm gone for 2 days because I had a busy IRL, I'm not gone for life :P
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 07 2017 08:23
But we missed you so much! :)
James
@skonk
Dec 07 2017 10:05
how on earth did you get so much pain on the surrounding surfaces?
paint^
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 07 2017 11:53
@WindstormSCR yes, there are many adjustments to make... All of the abilities probably can be pulled out of their entries, and all the extra keyword bodge profiles can be removed... Which will leave space for the raft of modifiers we'll have to implement to make ynnarii work properly in a soup detachment...
James
@skonk
Dec 07 2017 11:56
ynari feels like a mess on GW part to me; they nurfed it to hell because of the points changes and new strats/rules that eldar/deldar/quins have got/will get in codexes but forming your lists in a way to allow you to keep the use of those rules is going to a pain in the arse
you lose the ability to use strats and such if the detachment isn't pure eldar or dark eldar etc but you need one of the ynari hq's to be able to count the army is being ynari... but you cant put that HQ in one of the detachments with the eldar/deldar/quins otherwise they wont be eldar, dark eldar or quin detachments
so yer forced to run a supreme command detachment with the 3 ynari hq's or a -1 CP aux detachment, to give you the ynari rules and then make stand alone detachments of nothing but eldar, dark eldar or quins to give you access to their own rules
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 07 2017 12:02
I don't think they want you to use Aeldari soup. They want you to make Ynnari detachments.
James
@skonk
Dec 07 2017 12:03
if you make ynarii detachments you dont get the strats and stuff for the various elves
they justified the nerf as being due to those strats
so clearly they indent people to use them
which means NOT making ynari detachments
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 07 2017 12:04
I know. It's a mess. They should have made Ynnari replace the Aeldari/Drukhari/Harlequins instead of adding it.
like with GSC or R&H
James
@skonk
Dec 07 2017 12:05
that would be cleaner but they would then have to add a rule that gives access to their respective strats/traits
otherwise they would have to revert the nerf a bit
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 07 2017 12:05
unless the point is that Ynnari should/will have their own, like GSC.
James
@skonk
Dec 07 2017 12:06
they should have ynari specific stuff
but as i said
GW stated that they nerfed soulburst because of the new eldar, dark eldar and quins specific rules and strats they get in their own codexes
so we have to assume the point is that they intended ynarii players to use those 3 factions own specific stuff even in a ynari army
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 07 2017 12:08
I haven't seen that. It strikes me that they're just reacting to the situation, not following any kind of plan.
They messed up by not thinking through the consequences of what they did, and have attempted (in a ham-fisted way) to fix their mistake.
James
@skonk
Dec 07 2017 12:10
seems like thats the way they do things these days :)
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 07 2017 12:10
rapidly reacting to player feedback is (relatively) new to GW. They're bound to make mistakes while they learn to do it.
James
@skonk
Dec 07 2017 12:10
its also not what they should do
feed back is like 90% from the vocal minority of players who are unhappy with something
people dont go on the internet to sing somethings praises
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 07 2017 12:11
always the problem
James
@skonk
Dec 07 2017 12:11
they only make the effort to go on and gripe about things
so that feedback should be taken with a pinch of salt
the big games dev companies learnt this years ago
computer games i mean
happy people are off quietly being happy and not posting about how crap everything is :)
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Dec 07 2017 14:12
you guys need to switch your avatar.
I honestly for 10 seconds tried to figure out how @ilaunchbury managed such a long monologue...
James
@skonk
Dec 07 2017 14:15
lol
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 07 2017 14:19
Hahaha!
And yes, now they've made strength from death sensible they don't need to remove all the special rules from the factions
(IMO)
James
@skonk
Dec 07 2017 14:21
I dont think removal of the army-wide special rule they all get is that bad
the key is that providing you form your detachments so all eldar are in the same detachment, all dark eldar in another etc they would keep their access to strategems
and other rules that just require a "whatever detachment"
Luke Pettway
@LukePettway_twitter
Dec 07 2017 14:22
I noticed the other day that Huron Blackheart doesn't show up in the Chaos HQ selection, though I think he is in the current codex.
James
@skonk
Dec 07 2017 14:22
He's Red Corsairs
which in the CSM book would mean using the Renegade Chapters thing
i think
Yeh if you select Renegade Chapters as the legion he shows up
hes not usable inside any of the main legions
Luke Pettway
@LukePettway_twitter
Dec 07 2017 14:25
Got it that makes sense.
Brentt Fease
@Brentticorn_twitter
Dec 07 2017 15:15
Sorry to just show up and whine, but I couldn't help but notice that the points cost of Doom Sirens for Noise Marines appears to have been overlooked in the Chapter Approved update...
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 07 2017 15:16
It’s fixed it’ll be out in the next release
Brentt Fease
@Brentticorn_twitter
Dec 07 2017 15:17
Ah, sweet. Thanks!
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 07 2017 15:28
@Brentticorn_twitter, I missed a load of things. I was sure I'd fixed that one (I even closed the ticket which originally reported it) but somehow it got missed.
@LukePettway_twitter , @skonk is right, you can only select him if you choose Renegade Chapters as he's not valid otherwise.
unless and until FW give Red Corsairs proper rules again.
@Brentticorn_twitter, now you have a github login, you can browse the ticket history and see which ones I've fixed (or not). Everything's labelled now, to make searching a bit easier.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 16:55
@skonk because to get the heavy and large-particle GW base paint to spray i have to use a large-needle car detail spraygun, so it works more like spraying from a rattle-can
3:2 base paint to thinner mix, but it makes a single pot go a lot farther and smoother than a brush job
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 17:15
@FarseerVeraenthis i can't actually see a way to make ynnari work in a way that would not break valid and legal lists
since conditionals don't seem to be able to check parent forces properly
and checking roster would result in options being invalidated that are valid in separate detachments alongside but not as a part of ynnari
since I can set "if x in force" conditionals but that only checks the current force and NOT a parent force
at least from everything I can see
James
@skonk
Dec 07 2017 19:59
ah
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 07 2017 20:35
I think you can show/hide based on instance of "category"... So that might work off the Ynnarii characters...?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 20:58
the problem is where it checkes for the instance
you can say for "instance of ynnari in roster/force/ancestor" but roster invalidates legal builds, force doesn't check parent forces of child forces, and ancestor doesn't really work since the force itself doesn't have the tag
@FarseerVeraenthis also to be brought up is should we invalidate all previously built lists just to save a few lines with the containers?
and they do still provide a function by displaying an entry in the 'none' view option
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 21:03
and you can't sidestep it by making a 'craftworld' ynnari because they technically keep the craftworld designation for the purposes of transports and aura abilities
it's a really shitty structure
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 07 2017 21:05
I think these are all the eason why we deicded to have a single Ynnari CAT in the end
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 21:07
which is a good solution, IF the python works for easy merge
otherwise it ends up being an amazing problem of duplication
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 07 2017 21:08
uhuh, I'm bummed that the python didn't "just work"
@/all does anyone know python??
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Dec 07 2017 21:09
there might be some people, yes. ;)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 21:10
so the best 'not-a-massive-pain' option I can think of is to move to child detachments with an extra tagged army rule of 'check your list to make sure there isn't invalid stuff'
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 07 2017 21:10
@amis92 could you have a look and see if there is anything obviously causing it to not work properly (lemme find a link)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 21:10
@amis92 if you can make the python script from @USSX-Hares return a readable file for merging the cats you will be a hero
because I've tried and it returns a junk file :(
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 21:11
@FarseerVeraenthis I'm personally in favor of just keeping the containers, since they're there and would invalidate all existing lists on removal
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 07 2017 21:11
that's all the information I have
and yes, I've done that before
i.e. broken EVERYONE's lists
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 21:12
sometimes it's justified
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 07 2017 21:12
there was not much crying afterwards... actually I did it with Deathwatch and there was no moaning
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 21:12
but in this case I don't feel it's entirely necessary?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Dec 07 2017 21:12
@WindstormSCR I don't want to crash into your disussion, but what container entries are you talking about
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 21:12
the stuff from #1853
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 07 2017 21:13
the work around for attaching abilities to units
by using a min/max 1 selection entry
(as a container)
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Dec 07 2017 21:13
Thought so. Did you check that it invalidates the roster?
I've a feeling BS did pretty good job ignoring no-longer existing entries.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 21:13
I did one unit as a test, it doesn't remove the unit but strips any options that were in the container
which causes an issue on mobile (iOS) from there being too many list errors
once it gets over ~50 the file just straight fails to load and crashes out
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 07 2017 21:14
beautiful
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 21:16
so it doesn't 'invalidate' lists technically, just means anyone using mobile gets the same net result
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 07 2017 21:18
either way I think there is mileage in undoing the categories bodge
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 21:18
which was that?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 07 2017 21:19
also, we need to update the Faction category <CRAFTWORLD> because it is not rendered in roster view, you just get Faction:,
the keywords profiles
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 21:19
ah
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Dec 07 2017 21:19
WHAT NOW
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 07 2017 21:19
we don't need them now
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Dec 07 2017 21:19
Again?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 21:20
my desktop isn't pulling the .06 update :(
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Dec 07 2017 21:20
I thought we had that not-escaping HTML thing behind >:(
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 07 2017 21:21
image.png
hmmm, that's small... anyway, the Keywords text, the first "Faction:" is missing something after the : ... That something is <CRAFTWORLDS> as evidenced by the soon-to-disappear faction keywords box at the bottom
add the CA obsec to GST and link it to troops?
just a thought
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 07 2017 21:38
removal of the keyword bodge is tested and confirmed not to cause an issue
so it is done and PR'd
and merged
tekton
@tekton
Dec 07 2017 21:39
keywords/category updates make my GK lists look funny :P but i'd rather have this, I'll go through and do another QoL pass soon, wanted to clean up some psyker stuff anyway
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 07 2017 21:39
and wrt ObSec I added a selection to "No Force Org" to cover it
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 07 2017 21:42
booo, bscribe doesnt support base64 embedded images
embedded.png
works if you save it has html tho :D
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Dec 07 2017 21:43
Hacking level expert ;D
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 07 2017 21:43
lmao
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 07 2017 21:50
That’s... good to know
Maybe something to mention to @Jonskichov? Lol
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Dec 07 2017 21:52
I've sent him a hint about that HTML unescaping thing
@WindstormSCR @FarseerVeraenthis I'm debugging the thing, but the defaults on current files throw on me
can you join https://gitter.im/BSData/ynnari not to spam here?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 07 2017 21:57
I tried to run it (the python tool) and got...well, a mess.
Actually
When I try it out I can open it in the data editor and save it just fine]
Now I ran it against latest production .catz files so I don't know if there are changes or not
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Dec 07 2017 22:03
about 30 commits, yeah
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 07 2017 22:03
What compression is the "z" in catz?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Dec 07 2017 22:03
@CrusherJoe care to join separate conversation to have the topic separated?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 07 2017 22:03
Yes I will
Well, I tried to join the link you put up but get a 404
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 07 2017 22:06
see if that grabbed you, I direct invited
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 07 2017 22:21
Zip
Joe
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 07 2017 22:22
Thank you