These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

15th
Dec 2017
cartag
@cartag
Dec 15 2017 00:19
Anybody else standing in line for star wars right now?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 00:20
No
I don't get to see it until next week
cartag
@cartag
Dec 15 2017 00:24
Don't worry, no spoilers :)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 00:53
well, wraithknight built
even if it's overcosted as fuck
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 02:29
I got started on my Vulture
Tools most used: vise, razor saw, files, sanding block
Got most stuff dry-fit so ready to proceed with priming
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 02:36
neat
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 02:37
Thumbs up on the WK
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 02:37
be careful of the resin dust (I assume you are but it never hurts to say so)
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 02:37
Oh yes indeedy. I have special masks and everything.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 02:37
I have it so that it can be run as any of the 3 variants
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 02:37
Nice
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 02:37
double cannons, suncannon, or sword and board
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 02:38
I found out this afternoon that I'm going to have to have sinus surgery next month -- but it's a good thing. Doc told me I'd "feel like a new man" after it was all done. I'm excited.
Double cannons is the way to go usually isn't it?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 02:40
So I'm in agreement with you about most of that
However I'll counter that have guide/fortune as options are REALLY good
Probably not the 100 point disparity good that I see
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 02:50
I'll counter with fortune being equivalent to the boostable 5+ invuln
4++ on T8 is damn strong
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 02:51
Undeniably
That leaves Guide LOL
Also, movement
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 02:51
which is maybe 33% better than standing a mechanicus knight near a dominus that is probably babysitting for repair
they're the same base, WK degrades with slightly less M loss
by 1" for middle bracket
as stated there, it's the suncannon/avenger comparison that really blows my mind
I wouldn't mind it near as much if it were S7
which considering it's supposed to be an amped-up starcannon would have made sense
so increasing it to S7 or lowering the cost would make it palatable
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 02:56
Yeah all my Aeldari friends that have WKs (...most of them, admittedly...it was really too good in 7th) say the suncannon is just trash
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 02:56
it would hit the "wound light vehicles on 4s" bracket if it were S7 and make it worth something
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 02:57
Yeah S6 is in a kinda weird place
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 02:57
a decent generalist option instead of heavy vehicle targeting (double cannons) or melee
S6 used to be great
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 02:57
Indeed
Now
Not so much
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 02:57
because glancing AV10 on 4s
now it's.... nothing. not good for horde clearing, wounds T4 on the same 3+ as S5
so the multilaser and scatter laser are just kinda there
I won't say all S6 is garbage
I do love my shuricannons
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 02:58
Like anything else quantity has a quality all its own
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 02:58
but that's because the alternatives are heavy class or S4
multilaser doesn't even have the extra shot
it's strictly inferior to a HB now
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 02:59
Now, I know this doesn't make it okay
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 02:59
same range, same general wound profile except outliers like wraithguard, same # shots, but the HB has rend
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:00
But I keep telling my Aeldari friends when they complain about something being overcosted (especially in comparison to something Imperial)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:00
at least most of our units actually work?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:00
"That feeling? That frustration? That borderline anger? That's the way everyone else felt playing against Eldar for 3 editions of the game."
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:01
without gorillaman and eleventy billion characters giving buff auras
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:01
Eldar units at least have purpose
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:01
SM without UM are in a seriously unpleasant place
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:01
Like you look at a Fire Dragon, and you know what a Fire Dragon is for
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:01
my RG are just hosed because I had minimal razors/rhinos, no other armor, and minimal dreads
and terminators, sternguard, and tacticals are hot garbage
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:03
Sternguard especially
Aggressors are baller though
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:04
I'm trying to avoid primaris, since my RG are a dual-use HH/40k setup
all I have for them is half a dark imperium
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:05
I bought half a DI
The Imperial side
And recently traded it all for a gaggle of Sisters
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:06
I'm holding onto my RG because of all the care I put in, and they're still useful for HH
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:06
Storm bolter and melta sisters, like 20 of them. Oh, and girl with a birdhouse. :)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:06
and occaisionally narrative things
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 15 2017 03:06
@WindstormSCR I directly blame you for me needing 9 more MKIV marines WITHOUT jump packs lol
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:06
I have an extensive UM force and Bobby G
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:06
but eldar are where I'm at now that I don't feel like a cunt just for enjoying the fast things they have
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:06
But I've played power armour since 4th
I'm having a blast playing Guard and Sisters mostly now
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 15 2017 03:07
I present to you: Nonsense, BA style

+++ 8e - BA ALL THE CP (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) +++

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) ++

  • HQ +

Brother Corbulo

The Sanguinor

  • Troops +

Tactical Squad
3x Space Marine
Space Marine (Heavy weapon): Heavy flamer
Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-flamer

Tactical Squad
3x Space Marine
Space Marine (Heavy weapon): Heavy flamer
Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-flamer, Hand flamer

Tactical Squad
3x Space Marine
Space Marine (Heavy weapon): Heavy flamer
Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-flamer, Hand flamer

  • Heavy Support +

Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought: Cyclone missile launcher
Two twin lascannons: 2x Twin lascannon

  • Flyer +

Storm Eagle Assault Gunship: Twin heavy bolter, Vengeance launcher
Two twin lascannons: 2x Twin lascannon

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) ++

  • HQ +

Lemartes

Librarian: Force stave, Jump Pack, Plasma pistol, Sanguinary Discipline, Smite

  • Elites +

Death Company: Jump Pack
Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Inferno pistol
Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Inferno pistol
Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Inferno pistol
Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Inferno pistol
Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Inferno pistol
Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword

Sanguinary Ancient: Encarmine sword, Inferno pistol

Sanguinary Guard
Sanguinary Guard: Encarmine sword, Inferno pistol
Sanguinary Guard: Encarmine sword, Inferno pistol
Sanguinary Guard: Encarmine sword, Inferno pistol
Sanguinary Guard: Encarmine sword, Inferno pistol

++ Total: [111 PL, 2000pts] ++

Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:07
(ha ha, "a blast", playing Guard, get it?)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:07
why 4? mk 3 has the old school baller look going on
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 15 2017 03:07
Because BLOOD ANGELS
we had all the new shiny pretty fast stuff
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:07
you could go MK VI
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:08
Yeah Eldar are finally on an an even footing with everyone else. I don't think anyone should feel guilty playing them anymore.
Well Aliatoc, maybe
But the other CWs are okay
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:08
get your beaky on and call them prototype suits with some BA tac squad upgrades
or just go bare heads
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 15 2017 03:09
I mean technically we are 1 of what, 2 legions that can use MKVII in 30k without people being able to argue that I’m just using 40k marines?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:09
yep
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 15 2017 03:09
Naw I just really like MKIV
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:09
if they're Battle of Terra setup
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 15 2017 03:10
But anyway; LIST lol
Ironically all I need to run that list is the aforementioned MKIV dudes
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:13
what's your boots on the ground anchor?
just trying to get a feel for the tactics in play, since I haven't touched BA dex yet to see how it works
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 15 2017 03:15
well I'm not super-worried about boots - since it's not auto-table if it's only flyers on the table.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:15
actually is
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 15 2017 03:16
No - unless it’s FAQd boots is strictly about objectives in CA
sorry, I just referred to it, but bottom of page 1 in that PDF
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 15 2017 03:17
ah ok I forgot that they put it in the faq
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:17
and that's any turn, so yours or your opponents
techincally you could gamble on first turn and deepstrike something or get out of a flyer, but if you don't go first it's auto-gg
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 15 2017 03:18
but I'm probably starting everything on the table; the DCo will use the Strat to move and advance before t1
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:18
ah
just be careful vs eldar players
because forewarned
honestly the best single improvement for most imperial lists vs eldar can be summarized with "Take a vindicare"
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 15 2017 03:19
I might DS the sang guard and sangy; but corbi is going to be going with them too for extra CC nonsense
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:19
Yes
That is correct
I was averaging 1 Dead Farseer/Turn with my Vindi
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:20
yeah.....
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:20
"Oh, you have a 4++ as your only save, huh? That's...unfortunate."
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:20
I slightly regret gifting a friend one after he was having some issues with other character stuff
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 15 2017 03:20
pretty much the plan is get everything I can in cc ASAP; and have the distraction contemptor and eagle to force hard decisions
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:20
"No, no, hush Farseer...no, don't run...you'll only die tired."
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:21
but I got my revenge by AWPing it through a wall with a D-cannon from the wraithseer
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:21
HAHAHAAA
That's awesome
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:22
what? you mean I can put the sniper quality on any gun on anything that can be a warlord? well.... a wraithseer can take a 24" Heavy D3 12 -4 Dd6 ignoring LOS D-cannon.....
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:22
Yup
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:23
also good for fucking up artillery that thinks hiding is a good idea
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:23
That is also true
Eldar are pretty much the anti-Guard
But
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:23
I think the only reason D-cannons aren't used more is that support platforms are a shitty carrier
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:23
Fight Broken with Broken.png
@alphalas if I'm playing BA and I see DCo and/or Sang Guard...they're gonna die first
Lord help you if you have them on the table and I go first
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:26
"incoming! fire for effect!"
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 15 2017 03:26
@CrusherJoe that's completely understood
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:27
my tactics for dealing with 1st turn charges is to not have my heavy hitters on the board courtesy cloudstrike/wwstrike, or have them in wave serpents
I may need to invest in some scytheguard
because there are 2 big BA players in my local that have been waiting for the codex...
peversely, I might use my spectres more, even at high PPM just for the charge defense
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:29
For I Shall Not.png
Spectres are still baller AF
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:32
I'm unconvinced, I think it was a heavy overreaction, and they should drop about ~3ppm
that would put a unit of 5 at 154 with exarch
currently 169
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:33
Yes, yes
CrusherJoe @CrusherJoe patty-pats
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:34
hey, that's still be 7ppm over index
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:34
So saaaaaad, being able to get -3 to fracking hit
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:34
only with alaitoc, or 2CP, and I don't play that cheese
alphalas @alphalas breaks out popcorn
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:35
that's what gets me, no unit should be balanced for the optimal case
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:35
Personally I think -1 to hit shouldn't be stackable
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:35
they should be balanced for the average case
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:35
Yes, but you see
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:35
I hope you're ready for DA fliers then
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 03:35
WAAC powerwhores are the reason we can't have nice things
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:35
zipping around with -2 or -3
though really
if I had to make a list of things I'd like to see for eldar:
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:40
reduction in unit caps for some aspect warriors (spears, reapers)
Recosting of the wraithknight so it wasn't a complete sack of crap
Some sort of fix to make scorpions usable, since they need more help than just points
some sort of innate rend on monofilament weapons? to differentiate them from shuriken weapons and make spiders/nightspinners more useful (rerolls to wound might work but could be too good?)
1ppm drop on guardians so they don't feel like wasted points
to clarify the first one, should be reduction in maximum cap
part of the current problem with CWE in tournament play is that it's too efficient to stack buffs on one large unit of an already 'ok' unit
so if spears were max 6 and reapers were max ~7, it wouldn't be quite so bad
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 03:48
part of the problem I'm starting to see with 8th is that generalist units are even more heavily penalized than 7th, and the generalist staline is less useful, doubly so for generalist elites
its pretty much all offensive output because of lack of mitigating factors
now I'm just trying to make SM lists I think I could enjoy with proper RG flavor, and hating all of them...
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 04:04
Yeah
Marines are just...meh
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 15 2017 04:06
Yeah @CrusherJoe tell @WindstormSCR about our BT argument
I still have that outstanding challenge to you to make a good fluffy BT list lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 04:08
with things the way they are I could forgive someone calling them the "Black Tramplers, a blood angel successor that likes crosses and chains!"
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 04:26
I really should give my RG some playtime, see if I can make something sort of work
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 15 2017 04:48
I'll tell you how to make them work
But it requires Primaris
Hellblasters and Plasma Incestors
And Aggressors
All popping up in really interesting places (for you, unfortunate places for you opponent)
If I ever do BA (which I won't) I'd just call 'em "Team Edward"
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 04:55
yeah, I get that
but I'm not in the market for new marines when I have a giant case full of weapon-swappable and FW-upgraded raven guard.....
the only primaris stuff I actually use is reivers, usually only a 5-man to suppress overwatches for other guys
.....and it's mostly crap in 8th
@alphalas happy to hear your BA seem to have fared better
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 15 2017 06:40
@cartag, watched Star Wars last night, spoiler alert: it's awesome!!
And I'm interested to hear the discussion about marines, makes me glad my main army is Xenos because I don't need a load of new units because the old ones are not up to scratch...!
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 15 2017 08:47
Although, I'm not sure it bodes well for my Deathwatch or Dark Angels Armies...
At least the primaris marines look pretty good :+1:
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 19:16
DA are actually ok
because bonuses to plasma spam, and devs are good for that
deathwatch who knows
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 19:54
welp
smite spam is dead, all hail buff spam
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Dec 15 2017 21:44
interesting beta psychic rules. i like it, but has abuse cases again
they need to add "can only be effected once" to a lot of things now
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 21:44
and grey knights get even more sad
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Dec 15 2017 21:44
^
GK get shitted on with that rule change
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 21:45
so do 1k sons and other smite-as-unit-tax
tbh I think the biggest thing they could do that would help would be to cap hit malus at -2
I play eldar and wouldn't even be mad
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Dec 15 2017 21:46
yeah, my 1kS just keep getting back burnered further and further
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 15 2017 22:59
Sounds good, although getting into the game from scratch with the most upto date rules will be tricky
I just got back from playing my first maelstrom of War battle - it was awesome! And I won 8 VP's to 5 :smile:
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 23:01
I almost exclusively play maelstrom, but the new CA eternal war missions have me looking at them
the basic book EW missions leave much to be desired
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 15 2017 23:03
ITC combined arms is pretty interesting. its a combination of both eternal war and maelstrom
but probably a little heavy for casual play
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 15 2017 23:04
It was only a small battle (y
600 points
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 15 2017 23:05
wow, you werent kidding :D
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 15 2017 23:05
But neither of us had played for a million years so we didn't want to go overboard
Well, that's all the guard my mate had built
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 15 2017 23:06
fair dos
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 15 2017 23:06
And meant I could field a fully painted army for a change
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 15 2017 23:06
what were you, elves?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 15 2017 23:06
Uhuh
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 15 2017 23:06
hows their codex looking so far?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 15 2017 23:07
I played two squads of guardians with shuriken cannon, a falcon, a farseer, a warlock, a squad of 5 rangers and a squad of 5 banshees (including an exarch) so I could have a battalion and use some CP's
And the stratagem are lovely
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 15 2017 23:09
thats a lot more than i expected, i guess guardians are pretty cheap? and the falcon got a big price drop too, iirc
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 23:09
The CWE codex is good and solid, has lots of viable options and few completely garbage ones
guardians aren't cheap for what they do, ideally they'd be 1ppm less, but when your options are guardians (min 10 for 80) or Dire avengers ( min 5 for 60) or rangers (min 5 for 60) the limited choices still make them worth taking
the thing you don't see in that comparison is that guardians are assault 2 12"
DA are 18" assault 2, rangers have snipers
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 15 2017 23:11
yeah, DA have been my favourite aspect warriors for a long time :D
bit of a shame theyre pants this edition
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 23:12
the best battallion filler for maelstrom is mechanized MSU DA
stick 2 squads in a serpent, fill the last slot with whatever
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 15 2017 23:12
hmm, i keep forgetting you can still MSUs in a large enough transport
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 15 2017 23:15
I kinda wanna playtest that list from last night - anyone on here used vassal before?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 15 2017 23:23
my usual casual maelstrom list is something like this:
but my meta is fairly heavy on things that can handle some shenanigans so that might be too harsh for some
2 DA glaive squads in the speedy WS, reapers, farseer, warlock, double avenger squad in the BL WS
webway strike spears and spectres
leaves 4 tanks, a flyer, and 4 bikers as the only valid targets for T1 shooting should you lose the roll-off
even burning 3CP on WWS gives you 5 to play with for forewarned/linked fire
@FarseerVeraenthis might give you some ideas for future builds, but I forget which CW you run