These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

24th
Jan 2018
James
@skonk
Jan 24 2018 00:00 UTC
image.png
tbh, what i need.... is a bigger house
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 00:00 UTC
lol
James
@skonk
Jan 24 2018 00:00 UTC
i also have 5 GW cases and 2 sets of plastic drawers under my gaming table all full
and 2 more KR cases in a 2 case bag on top of the glass cabs
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 00:42 UTC
and I thought my collection was big
mind you I've been trying to recycle things
James
@skonk
Jan 24 2018 00:42 UTC
:)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 00:43 UTC
I'm thinking I might end up keeping my deathwatch because of the notable lack of enthusiasm, and just use them along with custodes for narrative stuff
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 00:55 UTC
I need to set up a proper mag-box for my custodes and/or daemons
right now I'm just using a baking tray
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 02:05 UTC
@ilaunchbury I'm just noticing you missed a bunch of PL changes on the daemons files
only noticed when checking something else for a list for friday
I'll make a bugrep once I'm done wading through custodes
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 02:38 UTC
being able to work on a branch makes this so much easier
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 02:46 UTC
at least with the codex contents being small there will be hopefully less fuck-ups from the conversion
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 03:12 UTC
looks like it shouldn't be too bad, just remove the shield cap and vexilla options from the guard
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 04:37 UTC
this is fucking comical
5 dudes 3 bikes and a landraider in 1000pts
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 04:52 UTC
minimum custodes battalion is 712
I hope they do a start collecting, two of those would be an army and done
well, if you want to list tinker the basic framework is on my branch, rules/keywords and stuff will have to wait until I have a good source for the copypasta
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 05:27 UTC
even better: a single outrider of custodebikes with 2 salvo launchers is 1k exactly
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 24 2018 06:14 UTC
Those the guys with 4 wounds, toughness 6 and a 2+/6+++? Someone on the aeldari Facebook page reckoned 40 scatter laser shots would only cause 3 wounds according to mathammer
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 06:15 UTC
not sure where the 6+++ was coming from
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 24 2018 06:15 UTC
I think that's the wrong weapon for killing Custards, but they are resilient
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 06:15 UTC
but 4w/T6/2+/4++ is right
I actually like starcannons for it
though the actual best weapon will likely be linked fire prisms
assuming we discount dark reapers
which are tailor-made for custodes removal
night spinner might not be too bad. Str 7, 2 damage per, but the variable shots lets it down
Starcannons are not bad, at the new pricepoint
forcing invulns instead of regular saves, wounds regular bananas on 3s
and multidamage even if the damage is variable
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 06:25 UTC
I imagine the actual answer will be just like death guard, wraith guard, and terminators. drown them in low-quality fire or spare some anti-vehicle weapons
predators will be a big problem
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 24 2018 06:25 UTC
Uhuh, I can't find the post again now but yes, I didn't even need to get into the numbers to know straight away that there were better weapons out there :smile:
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 06:25 UTC
with the static 3 damage
predator firing 2d3 shots, say 4, 3 hit, 2.5 wound, at least one failed save is a dead custodian
kind of sad they didn't get landraider variants
I'll just have to hope forgeworld comes through with the coronus/caladius
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 24 2018 06:48 UTC
Hmmm... I don't think they need the variants do they? If you've only got 10 dudes in your entire army, you don't need transport space for 16...
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 06:49 UTC
they take 2 each
so 10 slots is 5 dudes
crusader would be great for two reasons: more dudes (max 8) and the assault cannon/hurricane bolter mounts actually have a place and purpose
since custodes are not great at killing large blobs of infantry
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 24 2018 06:51 UTC
Hmmm... When you put it like that!
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 06:52 UTC
the good news for me at least is that the dudes at my local are fine with me using my repurposed magnetized raider for narrative events
so it's getting a nice gold sprayjob
and paint
tekton
@tekton
Jan 24 2018 06:55 UTC
oh yeah, i should put together my last two land raiders for those guys...
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 24 2018 07:12 UTC
I have two land raiders to build, with all the weapon options... I'll probably paint one Hull for my Deathwatch, the other for my Deathwing, and then figure out how to magnetise all the weapons and paint them so they can be swapped all ways...
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 07:15 UTC
are they the deathwatch kits?
because those have both sponson sprues, and it makes it stupid easy
step 1: decide if sponsons are front or back mounted before building anything
step 2: when building the tracks and hull, glue the interior doors on that position
step 3: place a disc magnet on the outside of that interior door panel, and one on the inside of each sponson door to lock them in
4: build lascannon ones entirely as normal
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 07:22 UTC
5: build the crusader sponsons without attacking the guns, just the middle bit
drill out/shove a magnet into the central pillar of the sponson, and use matching polarity on the hurricane bolters and flame cannons
put the tanks on the cannons, and give the tabs on the side panels of the sponsons some extra paint so they're a tight pushfit
you now have a fully magged raider for almost no hassle
tekton
@tekton
Jan 24 2018 07:26 UTC
...i know what i'm doing friday night now lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 07:27 UTC
only big caution is to make sure the soponsons rotate pretty freely before finishing assembly
because they aren't any easier to loosen up after you start gluing
also if you like the comms gear and want it to not snap, put a magnet under the top plate and a magnet inside the box the antenna goes on
same for the radar dish
and if you're careful with assembly you can leave the top plate removable for interior paintwork
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 07:33 UTC
counterweights under the MM hatch help so much
tekton
@tekton
Jan 24 2018 07:33 UTC
i've magnatized my three other land raiders too, that all sounds right/familiar (it's been a while)
i have two that are actually the custodes ones (yay ebay!) and the warhammer world one left to make this week
and three grey knight land raiders that are magnatized as you mentioned up there
thank you for the reminders and pictures
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 07:40 UTC
I'll probably leave the thing silver for a while, see if the coronus/caladius get ported
if they do I'll paint the thing black for DW
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jan 24 2018 07:55 UTC
Fabulous!
Thank you for the tips!! 👍
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 24 2018 09:30 UTC
Can someone explain to me how we got the No Force Org Slot option to always be the first in the list?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 10:21 UTC
you mean at the top of the list of options, or automatically added to the roster when you start a new one?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 24 2018 10:22 UTC
top of the list of options.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 10:23 UTC
add it to the force first, or edit the xml so it's the first category
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 24 2018 10:23 UTC
so, manually move it to the top of the list in the XML? It's not based on GUID or anything complicated like that?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 10:24 UTC
yeah, they appear in the order they are in the xml
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 24 2018 10:24 UTC
ok, thx
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 12:31 UTC
Ah the fun conversation of psy powers
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 12:37 UTC
Yeah, please come in to #2316 and say what's your opinion.
Pinging @/all
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 24 2018 12:45 UTC
@amis92 forcing it also helps prevent folks from running into “that guy” at the game store who “changes powers mid game because he’s “that guy”
Perhaps a “no power selected” default?
E.g. “No Psychic Power Selected - Illegal List”
That allows folks to see that they don’t have it selected when I’m looking at someone’s list?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 12:48 UTC
well then "that guy" is cheating by not declaring which powers his psykers know before deployment
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Jan 24 2018 12:50 UTC
I'm against including them. They aren't apart of roster selection any more than decided what unit will ride in what transport. If someone can't remember what powers they want to choose then that is their fault and not our responsibility. It's a lot of work to include all that info and we have enough to deal with
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 12:56 UTC
I mean, they are a part of roster selection. As amis says. A model/unit knows x from y.
I've always been for having psyker power selection and warlord trait selection (and c'tan power selection in my case)
Though, weird psyker shit has no bearing on my armies :p (Admech/necrons)
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Jan 24 2018 13:01 UTC
mine either(Black Templars) probably part of why I don't care if it's there or not lol
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 13:17 UTC
Now I have a question – to make everybody’s lives easier, do we want to make a no force org section for stratagems – the only one that really needs to be in it is the relic stratagem, but since everybody has one of those we can always just put it in GST and have everybody link to it. That way people can set their cats to unlock relics if instance of warlord in roster instead of instance of warlord in detachment
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 13:19 UTC
Also not a bad idea
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 13:19 UTC
that would set the precedent for including any "before the battle" stratagems
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 13:22 UTC
See, it does but it doesn’t; case in point BA: I totally build a list with the fact I’m going to take both angel’s wing and the standard of sacrifice in it; but I don’t build a list planning to Forlorn Fury every single game
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 13:23 UTC
forlorn fury is done during the battle, not before it
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 13:24 UTC
They’re both before the game stratagems; but if I have 2 relics on my list it’d be nice for there to be a visual reminder for myself and my opponent that I have 1 (or 3) less CPs then normal
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 13:24 UTC
i meant stuff like Chapter Master, or the special daemonic icons
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 13:24 UTC
No it’s before the first game 10
Turn*
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 13:24 UTC
at the start of BR1, yeah. that's not "before the battle"
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 13:26 UTC
Ok no I get what your saying now
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jan 24 2018 13:26 UTC
maybe add the list of powers, but default to a "pick before the battle" option so it doesnt create errors in validation, (which also adds all powers to the rules section for completions sake maybe?)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 13:27 UTC
So Death Visions of Sanguinus would be another thing that should technically be on that list?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 13:28 UTC
yeah, i would say so
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 13:28 UTC
Ok that seems reasonable imo
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 13:29 UTC
Ekhm... Psychic Powers discussion is #2316 :)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 13:31 UTC
Also here :p
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 13:33 UTC
Yeah I see but remember, gitter is more chit-chat, quickly lost in abyss of time - and standardizing behavior is something worth having a reference to in future. <3
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 13:36 UTC
@amis92 you might as well open one for before the battle/when writing kist stratagems too
List*
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 13:45 UTC
Hm... I might as well.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 13:53 UTC
So now we have #2316 for Psychic Powers and #2318 for before/mid-battle selections.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 14:06 UTC
Why do I feel like moving to Issues kills the discussion... :fearful:
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jan 24 2018 14:07 UTC
cant sign in to github atm, only signed in here cos of the power of persitant sessions =S
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 14:12 UTC
Because discussing in a chatroom is far easier than on a forum :p
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 14:13 UTC
^this
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 14:21 UTC
And now I feel old ;D Okay, so any ideas on how to make it better? Topic-rooms?
I both want this game and now want a dogfighting game for 40k.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 14:23 UTC
IF FFG still had the GW license, i’d totally be down to see x-wing based BFG
then again WizKids does have X-Wing licenced from FFG so maybe?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 14:24 UTC
I totally meant HAWX style.
but yea, a revival of the tabletop game would be good too
Topic rooms wouldn't be a bad idea @amis92
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 14:29 UTC
I just really like the X-Wing system lol
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 14:40 UTC
Armada was better imo
But both games had the power creep of MTG.
I couldn't/didn't want to keep up
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 14:43 UTC
Agreed on creep
i hever played armada (similar reason to why i won’t play legion, and don’t play the deckbuilder TT ground game; too many different game systems)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 14:49 UTC
oii
i hate to say it but that last comment sounds like a whole lot of “not our problem"
not you @GenWilhelm
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 14:53 UTC
So the issue, in essence is where does a game begin.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 14:54 UTC
that's more on the side of when do you use "before the battle" stratagems?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 14:57 UTC
BRB citation of generating immediately before deployment is pretty cut and dry
immediately before = the last thing you do before deploying
Which means that psyker powers are not locked in until you start deployment.
strategems for artefacts, by design, are used while creating a list.
Strategems for deep strike, by design, are used at deployment time.
Strategems for upgrades (banners, chapter master), by design, are used while creating a list.
does that cover all the before the battle ones?
Adam Whitehurst
@nairul
Jan 24 2018 15:00 UTC
Eh I'm not sure relics are supposed to be chosen in the list either
Seems to me "Before the battle" is a distinction GW makes when they want you to choose something on a per-game basis.
Otherwise they would tell us to select all wargear options "before the battle" !
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 15:02 UTC
the relics section says to write down any relic you're using on your roster
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:02 UTC
^this
Adam Whitehurst
@nairul
Jan 24 2018 15:02 UTC
Which section is that?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:02 UTC
Correct, written down on roster = list building phase.
p106 of admech codex
for example
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 15:02 UTC
the relics section of whatever codex you're using
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:02 UTC
Which means if you’re taking multiple relics, you should indicate that you’re using the stratagem
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:02 UTC
"Write down any arcana mechanicum your characters have on your army roster"
Adam Whitehurst
@nairul
Jan 24 2018 15:03 UTC
Interesting, Grey Knights doesn't have that wording
"If your army is led by a GREY KNIGHTSWarlord, then before the
battle you may give one of the following Relics of Titan to a GREY
KNIGHTS CHARACTER."
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:03 UTC
Which in a casual game, sure - pre-game, but in a tournament setting, where rosters are submitted, that indicates list-building phase.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 15:03 UTC
its later - after it tells you to still pay the points for the replaced wargear
Adam Whitehurst
@nairul
Jan 24 2018 15:03 UTC
ah okay I see it
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:03 UTC

So, lets assume the following phases exist in 40k:

List Building, Pre-Deployment (Immediately prior to deployment), Deployment, ROLL THE BONES

List building phase includes artefact and upgrade strategems
Pre-deployemtn includes psyker powers.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 24 2018 15:04 UTC
You have to have a roster previous to being able to write stuff down. But writing something on that roster just means that something has to be filled in at a point prior to game ‘start’
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:04 UTC
deployment includes deepstrike stratgems
roll the bones, all else.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 15:05 UTC
deep strike stratagems have the wording "during deployment", rather than "before the battle" or "mustering your army"
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:05 UTC
List building strategems should be included in battlescribe - as upgrades to relevent entries, which are tied to rule entries that say: Subtract 1 CP from total
Pre-Deployment should be included in battlescribe, but not as required minimums as they can change each match.
Adam Whitehurst
@nairul
Jan 24 2018 15:06 UTC
So default relic should be chosen in the list. But additional relics via strategems are chosen on a per-game basis.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:06 UTC
Deployment strategems should not be included as those are an on the fly choice.
No, because relics are chosen and written on the roster.
They would be considered a "List building" strategem
Adam Whitehurst
@nairul
Jan 24 2018 15:07 UTC
But the strategem is used before the battle
you can choose to use it or not to use it
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:07 UTC
Right, but as all relics should be on your roster
how do you edit your roster you've submitted to your TO?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:07 UTC
^this
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:07 UTC
You can't.
Therefor, it is a list-building strategem for the purposes of our issue.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:08 UTC
Exactly.
Adam Whitehurst
@nairul
Jan 24 2018 15:08 UTC
If we're talking about tournys, ITC has this:
Before any dice are rolled, both players choose Warlord Traits, Psychic Powers, spend pre-deployment command points, and any additional Relics they will use. These should be written or notated clearly for reference in game.
So ITC doesn't require that they're part of your original list. ITC lets you select them on a per-game basis.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:08 UTC
ITC is not the only tournament system around.
Adam Whitehurst
@nairul
Jan 24 2018 15:08 UTC
The additional relics, that is.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:08 UTC
Should be written or notated clearly
How many gamers do you know that actually have a legible handwriting?
Because I can honestly count on one hand
Adam Whitehurst
@nairul
Jan 24 2018 15:09 UTC
No one is advocating that we take relic options OUT of battlescribe...
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:09 UTC
I would be curious if ITC does specfically allow additional relics to be changed, but not the first.
That seems ... wonky
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:09 UTC
No that’s actually what you said
Adam Whitehurst
@nairul
Jan 24 2018 15:09 UTC
It's not.
We're talking about mandatory-ness.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:10 UTC
Right, we're not discussing removal - just the min constraints.
Adam Whitehurst
@nairul
Jan 24 2018 15:10 UTC
I'm not advocating that psychic powers be taken out of Battlescribe either.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:10 UTC
Correct, just min constraint is the questions here.
Adam Whitehurst
@nairul
Jan 24 2018 15:11 UTC
TBH I'm not sure why the conversation strayed toward Relics and other before-the-battle stuff, but I guess it's semi-related.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:12 UTC
Because at its root, this is an issue of "what is before the battle"
and when is that
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:12 UTC
^this
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:12 UTC
So it encompasses psyker powers, warlord traits, and pre-game strategems
Adam Whitehurst
@nairul
Jan 24 2018 15:12 UTC
But since we're talking about Relics, yeah I'm not sure if any strategems are meant to be paid in the list-building phase. Seems to me if they let you pay a strategem for additional relic, that's on a per-game basis.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 15:13 UTC
this is what i was saying earlier, where do you draw the line on when the "battle" starts?
in my mind, it should be before you finalise your army list
Adam Whitehurst
@nairul
Jan 24 2018 15:14 UTC
If "Before the battle" was meant to happen in the list-building phase... why don't we find that language used for everything that happens in list-building (i.e. wargear options, unit options, etc.)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:14 UTC
Ok
so what about the strategem to turn a captain into a chapter master
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:15 UTC
Or a captain into DCo?
Adam Whitehurst
@nairul
Jan 24 2018 15:16 UTC
Right, that's another "before the battle" example.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 15:16 UTC
chapter master is, DCo is "when mustering your army"
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:17 UTC
DCo?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 15:17 UTC
which only adds more confusion to the pile
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:17 UTC
Death Company
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 15:17 UTC
"DEATH VISIONS OF SANGUINIUS"
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:17 UTC
Ahh
ty
So GW doesn't help the issue by changing wording
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:18 UTC
Correct
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:18 UTC
but if we assume the latest wording is correct, then a character upgrade is done "When mustering your army"
But to resolve the original issue. BRB is clear - psyker powers are done immediately before deploying, IE: last step before deployment. There should not be a minimum. only a maximum.
Also, @amis92 - this is why it's easier to discuss issues in gitter.
Rapid discussion isn't feasable on a forum like this :p
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:20 UTC
:+1:
Adam Whitehurst
@nairul
Jan 24 2018 15:20 UTC
Agreed. I'm not seeing any "Before the battle" fuzziness when it comes to Psychic Powers. RAW seems pretty clear on it.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:21 UTC
Yay, oringinal issue - to rest! Now for the problems we made for ourselves.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:24 UTC
How about this: we standardize psy disciplines as SSEGs, with Max0 selections inside it - then modify the max0 on links to the SSEG in the entries that have access to said disciplines?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:24 UTC
That would be a superb solution
clean.
neat.
In the small cases of "I know everything!" (Magnus and Kairos)
set min as well.
Or just link all of them
yea, just link all of them would be easiest in that case
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 15:25 UTC
^ Better
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:25 UTC
Mhmm
I can agree to this
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:26 UTC
As for relics, the system old man heresy put in for admech is acceptable.
no force org option that says -1/-3 CP
that sets max relics to 2/3
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 15:27 UTC
increments by 1/2, you mean?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:27 UTC
Same thing
but yea
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 15:27 UTC
cos the first is from having a warlord of that faction
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:27 UTC
Ah - good point
increment is better
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:28 UTC
How about do it as an entry that is -1, with a sub-entry that is -2 for the total -3?
Or is my anal German showing with that one?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 15:29 UTC
Sub-entries! Kill it with :fire: !
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:29 UTC
Max Relic = 0
Increment by 1 if Force has instance of Warlord
Increment by 1 if force has instance of -1CP
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:29 UTC
Roster*
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:29 UTC
Increment by 2 if forc ehas instance of -3CP
*roster
Set -1cp/-3cp to be mutually exclusive.
No force org: "RELIC OPTIONS" with a radio choice, min/max 1 - either -1 CP or -3 CP
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 15:30 UTC
that means each faction would need a distinct "Warlord" entry, rather than sharing the GST one
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:30 UTC
Why?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 15:30 UTC
otherwise you would be able to take a admech relic from having a SM warlord, for example
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:30 UTC
Because of imperium soup.
Hmm
Bring back "Primary detachment"?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:31 UTC
No better idea
The max1 be set to warlord roster
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 15:32 UTC
Okay, that seems like a huge amount of setup for a very, very little benefit. Or I see it wrong.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:32 UTC
You just described standardization as a whole
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 15:32 UTC
:D
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:33 UTC
Hang on I’m making sure I have my wording correct
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:33 UTC
Some armies, it's superfluous. Others, it's needed
But for a standardized system, it has to be done on all.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 15:34 UTC
Well it's not always doom or gloom, Psychic Powers seems to have got quite a nice and not really complicated idea.
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jan 24 2018 15:34 UTC
one thing is, are we getting scope creep, are we moving from a "roster editor" to an "all encompasing one stop shop for all your army admin needs"
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:34 UTC
Does force trigger off all of that faction?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:34 UTC
Makes me happy that I play xenos.
That it has amis.
@CloverFox
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:34 UTC
Or is Force only the detachment?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:34 UTC
Not ... really?
I mean, a roster editor, to be proper, has to have constraints
and those have to be accurate.
In order to do so, well we have what we do now.
Otherwise we get Azyr
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 15:35 UTC
force is the detachment @alphalas
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:35 UTC
which is a glorified calculator.
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jan 24 2018 15:35 UTC
true, but if pycic powers are done "immidaiatly before the game" then thats not roster anymore, thats army admin
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:36 UTC
Right, which is why we're discussing removing min.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 15:36 UTC

one thing is, are we getting scope creep, are we moving from a "roster editor" to an "all encompasing one stop shop for all your army admin needs"

I think we'll get there when we get wound counters ;P

Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:36 UTC
Allow users to do it - that way they can be printed on the army sheet, but not require.
Still enforce the max though to be compliant with rules.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:36 UTC
agreed @amis92
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Jan 24 2018 15:37 UTC
i'm not saying we need to do anything about it atm, just to be mindfull we don't overcomplicate things with bells and whisles
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 15:37 UTC
:thumbsup:
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 15:47 UTC

So: Proposed changes

1) set psyker powers as shared groups with no min, but with max 0. Then set max to whatever is allowed by the unit using the discipline
2) set relics to max 0, increment by 1 with a warlord, increment by another 1 w/ -1CP entry or increment by another 2 with -3CP entry. The -1/-3 entries should be tied to rules that state remove x CP from total for this upgrade.
3) Character upgrades, taken from the most recent interpretation of "Before the battle" should remain in battlescribe as options, and those options are tied to Rule entries that state: remove x CP from total for this upgrade.

Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 15:58 UTC
Screen Shot 2018-01-24 at 10.57.32 AM.png
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 15:59 UTC
i would do a group that defaults to +1 relic, just so it's clear/consistent
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 16:00 UTC
Aye, less clicks - "Additional Relics" entry. Default to +1 Relic w/ -1 CP rule and can swap to +2 Relics w/ -3CP rule.
Hell, that can even go in GST
since it seems global for codexes at -1/-3
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 16:00 UTC
you mean like my entry i just posted? :P
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 16:01 UTC
you can take it once per faction though, and theyre all called different things
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 16:01 UTC
The one that has the dreaded sub-entries rather than radio buttons?
:smile:
Kind of, gen.
The strat says extra.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 16:02 UTC
Screen Shot 2018-01-24 at 11.01.54 AM.png
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 16:02 UTC
the FAQ says it doesnt matter
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 16:02 UTC
yes it’s not done :P
but it works
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 16:02 UTC
Oh really?
so you could get 1 Admech relic, then pay 1 cp to give a SM captain a relic?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 16:02 UTC
@Kohato yeah
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 16:02 UTC
yep
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 24 2018 16:02 UTC
Well that's just annoying
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 16:02 UTC
mmmhm
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 16:03 UTC
so if you had enough CP, you could take something like 25 relics
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 16:03 UTC
mmmmhm
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 16:04 UTC
Where on earth do you play such games to get 25 CPs?!
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 16:05 UTC
guard
2 brigs+ a bat+ base allotment is 24
So i’m running into an issue
Screen Shot 2018-01-24 at 11.09.37 AM.png
how i have it set up right now.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 16:10 UTC
equal to 0?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 16:11 UTC
….
damnit
hang on lemme see if that fixes the error i’m getting
nope - can’t key off categories.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 24 2018 16:14 UTC
So, catching up - no min on Psychic powers = good. I already link the powers individually where the psyker knows them all.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 16:14 UTC
so i can’t do max in category
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 24 2018 16:16 UTC
The proposed solution for relics doesn't work if you're not using an SSEG for all of your relics. I put weapon relics in the weapon selection.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 16:16 UTC
yeah, we need to be able to constrain non-primary categories ideally
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 24 2018 16:17 UTC
And be able to hide them because they aren't actually keywords.
@GenWilhelm, can't you do that? Or does it not work?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 16:19 UTC
it doesn’t work
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 24 2018 16:19 UTC
:(
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 16:19 UTC
it only validates categories that are linked to the force
so there is a solution, but it's messy as all hell
flashbacks to fall of cadia
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 16:20 UTC
so if i do min0 set to 1 for selection of warlord in Category Astra Militarum, it’ll never trigger
oh god
refresh my memory, what was that workaround?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 16:22 UTC
solution 1: link the shared Warlord entry to your faction's one as min1/max1, so we can validate max 1 in roster across CATs
solution 2: have a warlord category in the GST that is max 1 in roster, then link it to all the forces
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 16:23 UTC
aren’t we already using solution 1?
I’m pretty sure thats how my cats are set up
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 16:24 UTC
are you not linking the GST warlord direct to the unit?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 16:25 UTC
oh no yeah you’re right
i’m direct linking GST WL to units
my bad
been too long that i’ve played with the files >,>
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 17:06 UTC
Well, let me know if any mucking about is done in the GST so i can sort out what that means for custodes
CrusherJoe @CrusherJoe is late to the discussion
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 24 2018 17:15 UTC
That's what I get for being sick and sleeping in
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 24 2018 17:45 UTC
Can someone remember to update the guidelines with the final decision?
flakpanda @flakpanda is also late to the discussion
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 18:31 UTC
I agree with psystuff optional, considering it heavily affects CWE and I change powers like weather jackets from game to game
relics would be useful, pity there is no actual way to make a running "your list has this much CP" counter
tekton @tekton feels late to a discussion that he was in the start of
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 19:08 UTC
everyone is going nutty about the vertus bikes, but I think the allarus terminators will be the real gem of the custodes codex in practice
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 19:08 UTC
how do you write that 3rd person thing?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 19:09 UTC
that grenade launcher is fucking mean
WindstormSCR @WindstormSCR guesses like this
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 19:09 UTC
just ./me
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 19:10 UTC
@tekton @flakpanda if you've anything more to say, don't hesitate
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 24 2018 19:16 UTC
i commented on github. i just think all pre-game things need to be left to the player. excluding relics/items that are carried thru out the game.
like the new demon banners
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 19:18 UTC
Daemon Banner, Chapter Master .... those kinds of things I think are reasonable to have in
since they're relatively static list construction choices
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 24 2018 19:19 UTC
my thoughts too
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 19:43 UTC
i've put up a demo of my proposed solution to the warlord-relic validation on https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/tree/warlord-validation
nids and gsc each have local entries called "Warlord", but they should throw an error if you pick more than one, regardless of force structure
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 24 2018 19:51 UTC
pick more than one what? relic or trait?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 19:52 UTC
more than one warlord
havent started on any relic validation yet
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 24 2018 19:53 UTC
i guess... im still against pre-game inclusions
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 19:55 UTC
the only reason we did warlord traits in the first place is because of popular demand, people wanted to be able to remember what they selected for a given list or strategy
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 24 2018 20:05 UTC
been awhile since ive done it, but my update will break SM lists :p
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 24 2018 20:06 UTC
wooo!
break those lists!
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 24 2018 20:08 UTC
:+1:
lol
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 24 2018 20:43 UTC
@flakpanda :shipit:
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 20:55 UTC
well
my deathwatch get a stay of execution
because they complement custodes well with anti-horde firepower
flakpanda
@flakpanda
Jan 24 2018 20:57 UTC
anyone play on releasing today?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 21:16 UTC
Probably
Hold off just to be safe @flakpanda
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 24 2018 21:16 UTC
Yeah I'm about to fix several bugs
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 21:20 UTC
apparently deathwatch landraiders never got the updated hurricane bolter cost
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 24 2018 21:37 UTC
Okay I'm done with the bugs I'm gonna fix today :shipit: if you're gonna :shipit:
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 21:42 UTC
No don’t ship yet
I’m actually going to do some guard stuff
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 24 2018 22:31 UTC
Oh really now
What are you on about @alphalas ?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 22:33 UTC
UIX changes
Making sure all my cats are standardized
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 24 2018 22:34 UTC
Uh huh
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 22:34 UTC
Don’t worry about it I got it
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 24 2018 22:34 UTC
Uh HUH
tekton
@tekton
Jan 24 2018 22:35 UTC
I'll get some stuff in soon-ish, too
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 22:40 UTC
See? lol
since it’s Wednesday night i’m tempted to just push the rel off till friday and merge @WindstormSCR’s custodes changes
tekton
@tekton
Jan 24 2018 22:48 UTC
for some reason i have another GK push to make, can't imagine why...
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 24 2018 22:54 UTC
Why indeed ;P
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 23:22 UTC
@alphalas it won't be pushable intil early saturday
unless @acebaur or someone can magic up an epub or complete leaks with legible text before then
doing what I can fill in, but lots of the rules text is missing because it's so fragmentary
speaking of
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 23:28 UTC
@acebaur I can hit #2252 and #2244 if you want while I'm doing this, and fix stormshields which are still broken
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 23:38 UTC
was CA ever even done for DW?
going through it for giggles right now and looks like they're all still old costs
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 23:39 UTC
probably not
do marines, FW AA, and ynarri still not have WLT options?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 23:43 UTC
that's an @flakpanda thing
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Jan 24 2018 23:44 UTC
Probably not, I'll take care of DW this week in time for the custodes update to be pushed
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 23:44 UTC
fuck it, I rolled up the deathwatch changes
it was a lot of minor junk
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Jan 24 2018 23:44 UTC
Ok
Thank you
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 23:44 UTC
just points here and there
I'll leave the rework of the veterans weapon list to you
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Jan 24 2018 23:45 UTC
I know I've been a bit remiss about
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 23:45 UTC
also why increment with modifiers everywhere? out of curiosity, especially stuff that wasn't in the GST!
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Jan 24 2018 23:45 UTC
As for the custodes dex I should have it by Friday
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 23:45 UTC
awesome
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 23:47 UTC
@flakpanda WLT in SM/FWAA, go/nogo?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 23:47 UTC
I hereby declare all imperium soup that includes new custodes buff stuff to be "Banana Pudding"
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Jan 24 2018 23:47 UTC
@WindstormSCR how else to do incremental points?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 23:48 UTC
aroused snickering
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 23:48 UTC
you can assign the value to the item/weapon and then increment/decrement selections
requires one less step
and makes adjusting item points easier because then you just need to search for the weapon SSE to make the change
I did it a lot with the mobile format stuff
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 23:50 UTC
Hey @WindstormSCR while you’re at it – please go into blood angels in and untick all the shares on all the collectives?
@acebaur example there
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 23:51 UTC
Reivers are pitching a bitchfit about grapnels and grav chutes
Should only be on the Primaris crap
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 23:52 UTC
but having the points on the SSE of the actual wargear item makes it drastically easier
the other option is to just assign the weapon to the model
with appropriate static min/max
@alphalas reivers you say? anything else?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 23:53 UTC
Just check all the Primaris units
Also double check the sergeants for the intersessors and hellblasters
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 23:55 UTC
should be chainsword OR powersword right?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 23:55 UTC
Correct
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 23:55 UTC
inb4 bitching since that means a new SSEG in that model
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 23:55 UTC
Also how their gun selection works
Lol probably
Might get away with an internal SEG instead of a SSEG
But also the SGT’s gun is being a pain in the ass too
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 23:57 UTC
sorry, that's what I meant
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 23:57 UTC
:+1:
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 23:57 UTC
can you double check BA auto boltstorm costs?
says 14 here but I suspect it should be 12
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 24 2018 23:59 UTC
Yes 12
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 24 2018 23:59 UTC
@alphalas check my branch
should have the goodness