These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

31st
Jan 2018
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:21
@Mad-Spy re: #2357 I’m not for you taking them out of Codex CSM. The issue isn’t that they’re there. The issue is that (Apparently) If you take them you can’t take Legion traits
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:23
yeah, they don't have <legion>
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 00:24
they also dont have HERETIC ASTARTES, so you lose access to stratagems
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:25
its jsut not having <legion> that causes that to be lost
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 00:25
yeah, i just realised that
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:25
still sucks
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 00:25
becasue of the snowflake legions
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:25
So a block on the legion Trait if Daemons are slotted into the battalion would be more in line with the rules. (Though likely cause more big reports on why people can’t take Legion traits with Daemons) as for the “Summoner Pool” perhaps an additional “Type” “Reserves Pool” (min points 0) or a “Summoning Pool Battalion”
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 00:26
locking off legion trait with daemons in could work, but that would be a nasty snarl of logic
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 00:26
Yeah ... likely would.
But it would be more in line with the rule.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 06:09
Hiding Legion traits isn't difficult (or shouldn't be). I should be able to just hide the profile if there are >1 daemon units.
I'm not convinced it's the best solution. Maybe I'll add another profile saying "it looks like you've added Daemons to your roster. You lose access to Legion Traits! Would you like some help with that?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 06:16
@Mad-Spy i left you some ideas in the AoS channel
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 10:52
TS book in hand
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 11:06
@skonk, if you can do me pics, I can work on it tonight.
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:06
done already
exporting the pdf
think the images are all readable but any problems let me know
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 11:07
:heart:
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:18
magnus looks a bit plop now
no re-roll saves, fair enough, but they did noting to replace that and they upped his points cost
they also did a massive nerf to his smite
2d6 on rolls of over 11, used to be on a roll of a 10 or higher
TS Daemon Prince can cast 2 spells :) all other Daemon Princes only cast 1
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 11:22
yeah, they mentioned that in the previews.
or at least i saw it somewhere
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 11:30
are familiars new?
or have i just not noticed them before
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:31
where are they?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 11:31
on sorcerers
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:32
not seeing it
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 11:33
oh, its only on the termie version
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:34
hmm
wtf is that all about
why only on the termi
oh
cos the Lord/Sorc in Terminator Armour kit comes with a Familiar model
it used to be an option on all chaos sorcs, gave them re-roll spell casts
got removed in 8th
9 points to get a +1 to the cast, suppose thats useful
shame its not on all the sorcs
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 11:36
+1 on your first power, yeah
dunno. maybe they were scared of people spamming cheap sorcerers with just a familiar
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:38
i mean give it to exlalted sorcs too
they gave the plain sorc an inv save too which i think it didnt have before
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 11:39
:shrug: maybe it'll be errata'd
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:40
well like i said; i assume its just cos the terminator kit comes with a model for it
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 11:40
oh yeah, probably
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:40
the normal sorc doesnt, so its right in terms of giving rules for the models they sell
its just odd from a game perspective to let the terminator have that and none of the other sorcs
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 11:40
mhmm
i assume gaze of magnus is an error?
should be "more than 10" or "11 or more", shouldnt it?
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:44
its basically 12+ now
which is a dice roll of 10 if he's at full strength
he used to cast the 2d6 version on a dice roll of 8
8+
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 11:45
yeah, it used to be "10 or more"
which maybe have also been an error?
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:46
he gets a +2 when he's at fill power
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 11:46
hard to tell
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:46
i assume its intended, make him cast it less often but we'l see in a couple of weeks when they FAQ the book I guess
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 11:47
maybe its to compensate for his re-roll of 1s for psychic tests?
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:47
odd to word it like they did, you'd think they would have said "12 or higher"
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 11:48
well smite is worded as "more than 10"
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:48
oh shit i didnt see that
didnt see the re-roll 1's
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 11:48
yeah, it replaced re-rolling invulns
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:48
so they switched re-roll inv saves of 1 to casts of 1
yeh that makes sense then
rerolling the 1's ups the chance of rolling the double damage version
so, no re-roll saves and 30 points more
and nerf to the smite
but he gains re-roll casting dice of 1 and a new spell that does -1 to being hit
the re-rolled saves, with the +1 save spell was crazy strong
but
several armies can just remove the ability to roll inv saves
death hex, null zone etc
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 11:50
he has access to 18 powers now, rather than 3/6
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:51
the -1 to being hit cant be removed like that and only units like Dark Reapers can ignore it
yeh 18 powers, but he can still only take 3 (4 due to his warlord trait) and cast 3
not like thats bad, but increased choice with no increase quantity hurts me due to being so indecisive
takes me ages to choose which sandwich i want for dinner
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 11:55
fire frenzy has HELBRUTE, not Helbrute
bring out your leviathans :D
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:56
lol
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 11:57
they have a unique boon table too
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 11:58
generally pretty useful buffs too
and they have a spell that lets you roll on the table without spending cp
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 11:59
oooo, nice
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 13:33
Went and snaffled the rest of my order
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 13:34
any ideas on how to make the Boon of Tzeentch table sort in numerical order rather than alpha so 10-12 don't appear first?
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 13:34
picked up 3 packs of Tzaangor Enlightened, a Shaman and then a pack each of the Custodes elite guys
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 13:34
01, 02, 03,...?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 13:34
I suppose ;(
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 13:35
have we noticed any changes to points?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 13:35
apart from Magnus? not really checked yet
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 13:35
i'll have a quick look over the other units costs
I'm not as meh about the magnus changes now it's been pointed out that he gets re-rolled casting dice rolls of 1
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 13:36
it's slightly less damage from smite on average, but with a lot less variance
and his other powers are also more reliable, too
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 13:37
less chance to peril too
all but eliminates the double 1 peril
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 13:39
Boon of Mutation is quite fun. In Open Play you can just keep casting it until the target is a DP or just a regular combat monster.
Just don't roll snake eyes.
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 13:40
The other units seem to have no changes
in some cases, an almost dead character is worse than a spawn :)
there is also a strat you can use on a Spawn to make it better
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 13:41
sorcerer is 5pts more
exalted on disk is quite a bit less
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 13:41
ah id not checked those
was just looking at the rubrics and terminators etc
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 13:42
scarab occult no longer pay a leader tax
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 13:42
i think that got removed in chapter approved
the whole Chaos Boon thing would be so much better if it worked on Champion/Aspiring Sorc models in the infantry units. It only working on characters makes it almost never worth using.
towards the end of 7th, with the Traitor's Hate and Traitor Legions books the Boon system was actually a lot of fun and came into play a load
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 13:45
also, i dont think you pay for the blades on the disk of tzeentch anymore?
but yeah, traitors hate was pretty great
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 13:48
12" range D3 heals is a nice power.Especially at WC6
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 13:49
we nurgle now
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 13:49
works on vehicles and everything.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 13:49
heh, that is pretty nice
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 13:50
it's not even LoS, so you can hide a psyker and just keep healing up the Land Raider :)
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 13:51
lol
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 13:53
Weaver of Fates lost its LoS restriction as well.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 13:57
wow. Power of the Cabal is pretty strong
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 14:00
CAST ALL THE POWERS!
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 14:00
yeah, thats gonna be an easy 2 or 3 VP for most tsons armies
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 14:02
what is that?
oh
a tactical card
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 20:24
Oh great, TS Sorcerer weapon options got fun.
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 20:25
what changed?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 20:28
They can only take a force stave, and only swap pistol for other pistol. But in Index, they can have force axe, or "combi-weapons, melee weapons or pistols"
and a Jump Pack
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 20:28
ah
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 20:47
ok, brilliant play by GW. TS Rubric Marines have a different datasheet to CSM
TS ones can't swap their force weapons.
so, do I fall back to the Index?
and thus they can take them again
and they can't take soulreapers until 10 models
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 20:55
Technically don’t the index Rubric Marines are allowed in “any” force as they have a generic <Legion> identifier. And the TS ones are only Legion TS
(Remove the don’t... ) sigh
And CSM is likely the same?
Yep, it looks like the “Rubric Marines” in CSM have the <Legion> identifier. Instead of “THOUSAND SONS”
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 21:01
yes, technically you can't take them any more, but still it's one for the FAQ email
Just why though? It's going to confuse the hell out of people until they FAQ it.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 21:05
So they can also take a plasma pistol and the CSM version can’t
It looks like this is merely to prevent 5 man soulreaper canon spam. And to align the data sheet with the box contents. And completely remove the bonus for getting a second cannon on eBay
If the new box didn’t have an axe or sword and only had staves .. I’m not entirely surprised.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 21:11
I’ve seen players promote the concept that “one may replace for every 10 models in Unit” that the first model can do the replacement.
This fairly solidly stomps on that due to wording. Which is positive.
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 21:13
I'm relatively confident that they'll change the CSM datasheet.
it would make more sense to align them with the box, like you say.
but it doesn't remove the problem of having to support the Index wargear.
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 21:20
not letting rubrics get the soul reaper till 10 models is a crazy move
it was the best change they made in the CSM dex
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 21:33
to the rubrics i mean
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 21:46
How has no one realised that an autopistol is 20pts in the GST until now?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 21:46
idk. does anyone use it?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 21:47
clearly not!
until I needed to today.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:25
@Mad-Spy welcome to the autarch problem
I'll go look at sorcs, but if it was in the index options box it should still be valid
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:27
They also renamed the Daemon prince again
but i cant see any reason to ever want to use the index version over the ts version
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:28
pretty much
I think the only 'index option' on the tzeentch DP anyone cares about is the warp bolter (I have no idea why???)
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:29
i dont understand why the FUCK gw added that option in the index
they never had it in 7th
they dont have it in any of the codexes in 8th
its just in the index
the fuck was the point
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:30
old metals
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:30
then the codexes should still have the option really
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:30
and custom sculpts/conversions from older editions where it existed
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:30
makes no sense to add it in the index then just remove it in every codex
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:31
if you look at it through patented GW fuckgoggles it does
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:31
spose lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:31
"The indexes cover our entire model range, past and present" "The codecies contain only what we currently sell"
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:31
what makes it odd tho is that princes had no gun in 7th
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:32
whoever made that call should be hung by the toenails and slowly beaten with whips made from old sprues
@skonk I'm talking 6th/5th/4th kind of old
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:32
aye
but are there other instances of 8th ed indexes adding options that didnt exist in 7th?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:34
eldar index had one or two, for exarchs
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Jan 31 2018 22:41
all the units are done in the TS-Codex branch, still need to do traits and relics. Please start reviewing and adding to #2369 though. Thx all!
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:41
anyone else finding TS singularly unimpressive?
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:42
i dont think theres anything massive over the index that jumps out
but i feel like they should be a viable army
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:42
the better DP is nice if you just want to run tzaangors and daemons
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:42
the +6 inches on spells and access to 3 spell disciplines is nice
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:43
I might finally pull the trigger on a tzaangor box next month
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:43
the enlightened with bows look like they could be a good way to plink at higher toughness vehicles and stuff since TS lack high damage weapons unless you run pred's
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:43
nevermind
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:43
bows + prescience would be auto-wounding on 5+
2 shots each, units of 9 and it has a bit of ap
assault weapons on dudes on discs so very nippy
they just feel like a good all-rounder
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:45
possibly, seems like a lot of power investment on a fragile unit
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 22:45
Wasn’t there a Finecast Daemon Prince model in 40k Armor that had a gun of some kind?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:46
yeah, that used to be metal before that
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:46
fast unit, lots of shots, auto-wounding, base weapon stats are good for killing infantry
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:46
and they're OP in AoS, so tzeentch players that do both systems have a few
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:47
i wouldnt say they're all that fragile too
2 wounds, t4, 5+ inv
big blob of em, stick the +1 inv spell on em,
and/or the -1 to hit
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 22:48
That’s probably where the Daemon Prince with warp blaster came from in the Index... hmmm.
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:48
can exit combat and still shoot
i may be wrong and they turn out to be a steaming pile; but on paper they look like a nice unit to have in there that can do a bit of everything
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:51
I'm just jaded because of eldar jetbikes maybe
where I've seen T4 2w 4+ evaporate
though 17ppm isn't completely terrible, its still not spectacular
I can see why people will take units of 9 and buff the crap out of them with weaver/prescience
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:52
yeh
they fill in some gaps
if nothing else
oh shit
the shaman gives +1 to hit for tzaangors within 6 inches
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:55
...huh
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:55
so him with the bow dudes
prescience
4+ auto wounding
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 22:56
he can't take prescience, he's locked to the first table
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 22:57
but any TS psykers can
id be tempted to have an exalted sorc on disc with them too anyway to get re-rolled 1's
as in, marine psykers when i said TS psyker
i wanted a mutalith beast but they're out of stock
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 31 2018 23:06
They’ve been out of stock for months
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 23:07
9 skyfires, 1 shaman, 1 sorc, 1 unit of tzaangors is a nice patrol
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 23:07
aye its a pain in the bum
@WindstormSCR yeh
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 31 2018 23:08
throw in a couple FW dreads and make it a vanguard
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 23:08
the enlightened could start off the board via webway
the characters hiding behind the troops
so the enlightened dont get shot up on turn 1 before you get any spells off
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 23:21
Did you catch the Tony vs Alex game at LVO?
Tony pulled a huge dick move and won, lost in the final in an awesome display of instant karma with Nick basically owning him with a similar dick move; but Alex had took it so well and with such good sportsmanship that the guy who runs Riot games who happened to be watching tweeted FLG to say that he wanted to give Alex a $5000 sporstmanship award - which Alex then said if it happens he'l donate 100% of it to the children's hospital his wife works at...
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 31 2018 23:30
Nice
That was the slowplay game?
James
@skonk
Jan 31 2018 23:32
slow play then called him on mistake where he put his deepstrikers down early in a rush to make up the lost time due to said slow play
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 31 2018 23:34
That’s right
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 31 2018 23:58
yeah. did you see what happened in the next game?