These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

5th
Feb 2018
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Feb 05 2018 04:10
Today seems to be the 'I don't read FAQ documents' day
tekton
@tekton
Feb 05 2018 04:58
Wait...we are supposed to READ the FAQ? But it says questions in it, so how is reading questions useful?! ...
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Feb 05 2018 05:05
:tongue:
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 05:12
It's the answers in them that's important, supposedly. :)
tekton
@tekton
Feb 05 2018 07:32
@WindstormSCR I was the FW book to finally find out if I can use Contemptor-Galatus in 40k
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Feb 05 2018 07:34
honestly? you could probably homebrew translate the rules temporarily until FW gets the rules done next year :P
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Feb 05 2018 09:30
@WindstormSCR, it's also "What's Chapter Approved?" day
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 12:59
Man I love everyone posting brushes -- I'm always on the lookout for better hobby supplies
I'm tempted to try the "Da Vinci" master series brushes
Anyone here have any experience with them?
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Feb 05 2018 13:30
I use W&N Series 7
They are amazing
Use a 1 for my fine detail
Who makes the Da Vinci?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 13:31
I use a 2 for pretty much everything except super-fine details
Here's an old review of Da Vinci from 2010:
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Feb 05 2018 13:38
I generally use a size 1
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Feb 05 2018 13:43
@CrusherJoe how much do they run?
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 13:48
The Winsor and Newton Series 7's always get rave reviews and I've seen a lot of people who use the Da Vinci's so I always assumed they're good
I've been happy with my Games and Gears Kolinskys; as something thats good for sticking in a bag to take to the hobby shop (due to them having caps to cover the bristles and little leather pouches)
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Feb 05 2018 13:52
I've had bad experiences with the games and gears Kolinskys, they all curled on me, which is a sign of nylon brushes, so i'm suspisous they are hybrids, which is a shame cos the whole cover thing is a really good idea
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 13:53
what colour were the handles?
They're pure kolinsky unless you bought the synthetic ones (blue handles)
actually they sell a signature series which also have blue handles and they're kolinsky too so the handle colour isn't really that relevant :)
oh actually the synths are green
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Feb 05 2018 13:54
black, red, and the blue signiture you talk of
red are synth too
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 13:54
ah
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 14:40
@acebaur the Da Vinci brushes? They're comparable in price to W&N s7 brushes, maybe a couple of bucks cheaper
I found some Da Vinci brushes on Amazon, but Dick Blick seems to be the vendor of choice for them at least in the US
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Feb 05 2018 14:43
Any reason you are looking at them instead of W&N?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 14:43
When I first started I was just checking my options
Honestly after my research and finding a local art supply store that WNs7s on sale...it was an easy choice LOL
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Feb 05 2018 14:44
Lol
I my s7
*love
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:04
GW really needs to rein in mortal wounds.
Between DG and 1KSons, there's almost no point in playing something that has no psykers
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:11
GW seems to have implemented 2 crutch mechanics
for Offensive power they give a codex Mortal Wounds
for Defensive power they give a codex more ways to get negative to hit modifiers
and this causes loads of issues
Dark Reapers ain't inherently all that special for example
but because they ignore negative hit penalties, everytime a new codex comes out that gives an army new ways to get -1 or better to hit, by proxy it makers Dark Reapers better
relative to every other army
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:12
Dark Rapers are a special case due to 5 factors:
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:12
Necrons vs 1kSons was a joke. Quantium shielding is useless vs the mortal wound spam and Rubrics getting -2ap 1dmg rips through it
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:12
  1. Points cost is relatively low
  1. Unit size of 10
....
  1. Points cost is relatively low
2.
  1. Unit size of 10
...wtf
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:13
lol
yes they're a good unit
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:14
Let me try that again
  • Low points cost
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:14
That was the best list.
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:14
  • Unit size of 10
  • Immunity to to-hit modifiers
  • Ability to use Forwarning
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:15
I don't even want to run admech with a knight vs 1ks, that's just asking for a quarter of your army mortal wounded down in a turn
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:15
  • Consistent 3 dmg
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:15
yes, all makes them good
but the ability to ignore modifiers specifically....
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:15
The combination of those things elevates them to greateness that is more than the sum of its parts
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:15
that ability makes the unit get better relative other units every time a new codex comes out and gives an army more ways to get negative hit modifiers
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:16
And GW can't points-increase their way out of it, either
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:16
in the same respect, armies with ways to ignore mortal wounds (i.e. DG) get better relative to other armies every time a codex comes out that gives the army more ways to deal mortal wounds
the irony of that is DG are also one of the armies that can deal a lot of mortal wounds
while also being one of the best at defending against them
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:17
Every Eldar player I know, I've asked, "Would you still take DR if they were 10 points more a model?" Every time the answer has been an enthusiastic, "YES."
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:17
When 8th was first announced, mortal wounds was one of the things i hated the idea of the most
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:17
Agreed. I still hate them.
If they were super-rare (as they were originally advertised to be) it might be --okay-- not terrible
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:18
yeh
which is what my point was before about the crutch
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:18
But NOPE
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:19
instead of adding codex power via interesting ways, that the enemy has some defence against
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:19
The ability to deal them has been passed out like candy
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:19
they have fallen into a trap of just spitting out more mortal wounds
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 05 2018 16:19
this is one of my big gripes, too. MWs are just a lazy way of saying "some more damage, but not an attack"
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:19
thing is, as a primarily DG player all this MW output aint an issue
i have defence against it
so every time they add more MW's to an army, DG get stronger relative to other armies
DG, Nurgle Daemons, Dark Eldar etc would all be the same
anything with pretty much army wide ignore mechanics
and everytime they give an army more ways to -1 to hit on units, Dark Reaper spam gets stronger
relative to other armies
mortal wounds and negative to hit mods should have been scrapped before they happened
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:21
You just know Tau are gonna have some negative to-hit modifiers
Because....hey, why not
CrusherJoe @CrusherJoe openly vomits.
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:21
Ugh
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 05 2018 16:21
that doesnt really fit their fluff, does it?
i imagine them to be more like guard
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:22
Steath suits and ghost keels I get, but you know it's gonna be some kind of -1 To-Hit Fest when that book drops
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:22
I reckon Tau will get more ways to get +1 BS
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:22
That....I would actually be okay with
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:22
Markerlights needed for +1 BS needs to drop
5 is insane
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:23
more ways to land Markers, things like exploding 6's to apply more than 1 mark from 1 shot
they will get units of 3 riptides getting some bonus on a strat
basically the 7th ed formation rules and stuff reworked into strats
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:23
Bring back ripple fire for 3CP
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:24
yeh
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:24
That'd be fine, that's rather strong
and will cost half your CP pool
Because if you're running 3 riptides, you're not getting more than 7 CP
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:25
Please for the love of the Emprah don't bring back ripple fire
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:25
why?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:25
It's not once per turn ... You'd get at most 2x a game
by blowing all of your CP
If it's appropriately costed at least
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:26
Because it was insanely broken, and it needs to stay buried with the rest of 7E
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:26
it let the, double shoot their secondary weapons only
the weakest weapons it had
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:27
I think people mis-remember the effectiveness of certain things
Riptide wing's strength sure wasn't ripple fire
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:27
aye
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:28
A big part of the wing was the near immunity to failing the reactor roll
I used to run the most glass cannon list, 2 SS, Riptide Wing, and some crisis suits
So fun, so easy to kill
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:29
All I remember is seeing Riptide Wings on every table, and then the bucket of dice that was the Riptide Ripple Rape shooting phase ...it all goes black after that
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:29
Oh there was a lot of dice, it essentially turned the riptides into a better guard gunline
But the combination of never failing reactors, so you get 3++ on this gunline with Jet pack moves.
*jump pack
or were they jet pack ...
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:30
Now Tau definitely need something
My last opponent Saturday was a Tau player and it was just sad how poorly he did
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:31
Riptide wing was the only viable way to run Tau in competitive games and even then they rarely did well in those events
a lot of hate for Tau but most of it was just cos they wern't fun to play against; not cos of strength
Tau played ok in casual games
as in had a good chance of winning
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:32
No one ran Tau in a competitive environment. They ran Taudar for maximum nausea creation.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:32
^
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:32
Same with Necrons and the Decurion; horrible to play against in casual games
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:32
That's where the cheese came
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:32
but they didn't win tournaments
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:32
I loved the format of the decurion, hated the bonuses it gave.
I was a huge fan of that alternate way to build lists
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:33
it was very strong but Necrons and Tau crumbled against strong Psyker lists like Eldar
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:33
rather than standard CAD
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:33
no way to deal with psychic deathstars
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:33
And they still do :(
Though tau seems to crumble against anything now.
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:33
Tau are shite at the mo
not as bad as AdMech it seems tho
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:34
I'm sincerely hoping the new cryptek gear includes gloom prism
Necrons need a way to defend agains psykers, badly
tekton
@tekton
Feb 05 2018 16:34
I started working on my Tau for the eventual day when they're not completely horrible...
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:34
LCO had some Tau and Necron lists in the top 100, zero AdMech
LVO^
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:34
Admech is another glass cannon list it seems
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:34
not a single AdMech only lists in the entire event
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:34
And I have them, I even enjoy them on the table
but they melt to a stiff breeze
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:34
and the best soup list with AdMech in it didn't get into the top 50
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:35
My admech lists are usually Knight, Celestine, Cawl, Onagers, and some chicken walkers.
Super fun to play ... but they die quick other than celestine
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:35
yeh
Knights are over priced at the mo for what they do
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:36
I really hope the Knight Squires are decent
I really want like 3..
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:37
Yeah my Knight army is a sad thing right now
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:37
One squire for each of my knights proper
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 16:38
They desperately need some kind of actual Invul save (3++ if that's all your army is would be appropriate)
Otherwise they just die like little bitches
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:39
3++ is too much
4++
But then, I think Magnus' 3++ is too much when he can buff it at will
James
@skonk
Feb 05 2018 16:42
Magnus doesnt have a 3++
unless he IS buffed
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Feb 05 2018 16:43
Ohh, well damn
I'm already waiting for the April FAQ/Errata. Next change they'll get to address things
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 17:44
When you only have 4 or 5 units in your army, 3++ isn't exactly "too much"
But I definitely understand your point. :)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Feb 05 2018 20:53
Can I get a collective facepalm in here?
my one facepalm is not enough
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Feb 05 2018 21:08
but as much as I might find it distasteful, it is technically correct
the worst kind of correct
so custodes edits incoming :(
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 05 2018 21:15
Yeah he is most certainly technically correct
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Feb 05 2018 21:19
my reply:

There is one element missing though: the same flowchart says to use all updated points costs and abilities from the codex, and the ability "Custodes Vexilla" is the same exact ability name that was updated on vexilus praetors, and as such would be replaced with the new version. Amusingly, this change also entirely removes the ability of the unit to buff itself or anything else with a vexilla effect, since the ability itself mandates that the buff is given "within 6" of any friendly VEXILUS PRAETORS with this vexilla" a requirement the CG squad can never meet.

So if you want to pay 20/30/50 points to reroll your morale, be my guest.

WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Feb 05 2018 21:33
holding off on a custodes PR for a little bit since the FAQ will be soon
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 05 2018 22:01
the RAW (model) interpretation of the designer's commentary doesnt allow that
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Feb 05 2018 22:30
its an odd place, since the box is sold as custodian guard, and the instructions say custodian guard, but the codex says vexilus praetors
leading to anything but the datasheet name being a big fat circular argument with no winner
like I said, I find the entire thing distasteful, "deprecation was a mistake" etc
this was meant for units like autarchs and autocannon dreads, not this bullshit
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Feb 05 2018 22:35
exactly, its for models that are completely omitted from the codex. not for models that have been moved to a different datasheet
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Feb 05 2018 22:42
"this is why we can't have nice things"
I'm going to end up naming this release "Rules Lawyers in Golden Suits" after the custodes FAQ drop, any objections? :P
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Feb 05 2018 22:45
Do it
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 23:36
Go with "Just Take Whatever, You Cheating Fucks"
tekton
@tekton
Feb 05 2018 23:37
I've now got both of those in John Goodman's voice a-la his speech from Treme...
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Feb 05 2018 23:37
Too bad we can't make it print a giant watermark in the background of the output with the word CHEATER!!!
Dear Emprah I want to burn those entries from the Index when a Codex comes out, so they don't exist any more for people to do this kind of crap
Again, I get more mileage out of this meme than any other...
burn-people.jpg
Also, you need to just stay out of Dakka. Every time I see a link to that place I am hit with a feeling that's a weird mixture of dread and disgust
And just because some numb-nuts says you can do it doesn't mean we have to implement it...does it?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Feb 05 2018 23:58
there are some redeemable peices of dakka, but they aren't the 40k subforums
the painting and modeling sections are good