If they don't do something to fix GK in the march update that would be the biggest letdown of all
I don't even play GK anymore
and they need something
I’m still taking them to two tournaments at this rate...because I’m a glutton for punishment.
And hey, NO ONE will see it coming!
Might as well take an air wing detachment while I’m at it
they're not completely terrible as a DS assault force in another army
but standalone they are terrible
if that army you're taking is just pure GK, I feel sorry for you
Full leaks
You might be able to get most of it done before release
Cheaper bomber means i can fit two now
sun shark is VERY good
that mortal wound bomb
Yup yup- I already run two most of the time
So I don't see any reference to Savior Protocols or what drones do
And dear lord there are a lot of drone types...are any of those new?
Do you think they deliberately made GK weak on their own so you have to play them as part of a soup??
I. E. They're not "supposed" to be an army on their own
I think they cranked them out and didn't really plan it
They are in desperate need of a point balancing -- like a huge drop in price for what you get
And maybe a bump or two in the overall killing power department
GK and Custodes both have the problem of "Bring guard or get wrecked"
custodes in soup are good, monostodes are terrible
Agreed
and in my meta, people have discovered deepstrike area denial
which means what I want to do with my allarus is dead
so either changes in march update, or heavy backburner for fundar
secondary army will be imperial or crons, though which it will be is entirely dependant on the cron dex and update
I only have the shield captains on bikes and the Allarus box and I don't see myself buying more
I got them to add some punch to my Guard
Melee power I mean
Yeah, deepstrike could do with an adjustment, I'd love to go back to scattering, that made it more risk/reward
You could roll 2d6 and that's how close you can get when you deepstrike that unit
I'd be fine with scattering and a 33% risk of death if you fucked up
Or something :smile:
That would work too
and tbh
if you want to balance it to keep DS charge
-3 disordered charge penalty from DS
meaning snake eyes can fuck you
@WindstormSCR thanks! :D
I pity the salt your bugreps will cause
index vs codex might be a terrifying mess for you
possibly not, I think they were smart enough to avoid most of it
I don't think anything can really change like that for T'au. Not many (any?) deprecations possible.
except the stimulant injector.....
(might be the famous last words for me)
Oh?
Might've missed something?
(which you dodge on files because its support systems list not a line item)
a couple support systems became stratagems
stim injector was one
Oh. Oh, right. C&CN, indeed. Hmmm.
the tau 40k subreddit needs a salt warning
its worse than the dead sea
linky?
and you've already got someone asking for files :P
So you suggest I should leave the now-stratagem-support-systems as Index options?
nah, I'm poking fun
we don't have the dataslates for things yet
just the points
I think because of the same name, rules are overridden. I'll need an alibi for bugreps ;D
I think you WILL be getting a lot of bug reports about "why can't I use the index stim injector"
and the answer will be "Because it wasn't a specific wargear item from the datasheet, but a list and the list changed dumbass"
if they had said "may take wargear from the autarch weapons" for eldar, then done the same in codex but reduced it to 3 options, we'd be fucked
thankfully GW wasn't that smart
it appears they were with tau
Ha! Nice one.
I feel bad for my two best 40kfriends
they both have tau armies
one of them isn't fussed because he liked combined arms and was playing since 4th
the other was pure FSE
and summed his thoughts with "well at least they're all painted so they look good on the shelf"
Yeah. I was brought into 40k for their 4th ed codex by nothing else but Broadsides, fell in love with them thanks to the full-page picture of one in White Dwarf a friend brought to school.
Haven't had fun with them since 6th ed Codex dropped and rendered their Railguns into some puny Heavy Rail Rifle. Pfff.
OOOH we've got an orbital strike!
Well.. I actually don't think I'll be buying the Tau dex
Not played my Tau since I started playing Chaos and was considering getting rid of them but was holding out to see what they did with the Codex
Looks like a big old pile of dissapointment though
Big win for the Tau haters though, so congrats :)
Will have to see how it actually plays out once people get hold of it; initial reactions are usually exaggerated.
yea, it happens with every codex. people go nuts over the bits fed to us by GW, forgetting that its only a small section of the book
well, this is based on a full leak of all the rules
not just the bits from GW
are there any major datasheet changes?
no one is noting anything major in that regard
lot of points reductions, some incrases (same as all the other codexes)
a lot of stuff that was essentially wargear has been removed and added back as strats, making it more restrictive
some of those strats are also nerfed version of what they replaced
stim injector for example is no longer a feel no pain and as its a strat can only effect 1 unit per phase
a lot of the stuff in the dex is tailored for use with commanders....
then, probably last minute, they have put a restriction on how many commanders you can take, making a lot of the rules seem somewhat meh
since taking Shadowsun or Farsight takes up the commander slot for the detachment
they have done stuff like giving a sept a trait that works by not moving... while their sept strategem requires them to move
that seems counterproductive. surely if they want people to stop spamming commanders, they would make other units more appealing
they've reacted to the hate and made changes based on it
yeah, obviously something had to be done
why?
commander spam apparently pissed people off but it wasn't all that strong, Tau didn't win comp events
it was just better than other ways to run tau
it wasnt better than other armies
they should have just made the rest of the tau army more appealing than spamming commanders
if they really insisted on stopping it
but its fine for other armies to spam owt they want
because people were spending the vast majority of their points on just a single unit over and over
which they can still do with mosto ther armies
banning it doesnt fix the problems that caused it
compared to other ways (Massive points increases etc.) it seems a not entirely unfair and unfluffy way to do it tho ..
when thats the only thing you can do to keep up, you know theres a problem
or how about just making all the other shit units a little better instead of nerfing anything?
because people would still do it ... because it's effective
they werent nerfed. theyre just as good, if not better, than they were in the index
it was the only thing to do to keep up because the army as whole underperformed
i didnt say they were, Price said upping the costs was the other alternative
im saying neither needed to be done
underperforming army, 1 unit in that army did ok so people spammed it
instead of imposing a restriction unlike any other army has
and instead upping the cost of that 1 ok unit
agree it's another Kneejerk from GW
fix the rest of the fucking army
if they had focussed the new strats on units like firewarriors, riptides, keels, stealth suits, crisis suits etc
the commanders benefit over other units would have been reduced
instead....
they have made most of the strats work on COMMANDERS
and then restricted how many commanders you can take
which just makes it feel like a slap in the face rather than a book to get excited over
they also did something a bit underhanded to sell more commander models, which again seems counter productive
how many CP could you potentially get to spend in say 2k points ? considering no duplicate stratagems in a phase etc.
but a lot of people used standard crisis suits as commanders
they have added commander in a normal crisis suit as a unit now
identical to a normal commander but with 1 less wound and for very little points reduction
oh, is that a new datasheet?
making it more difficult to get away with running the full power commander with a model thats using a normal crisis suit
not sure if its a new sheet or just an option on the commander unit
basically, if you run standard xv8 suits as commanders, you would fall foul of proxy rules in events if you don't run them as the -1 wound version
and for CP, ive seen people theory-crafting lists of 15+
holy ....
ok, that would make them efficient with more than the limit of 2-3 commanders on the field I guess ...
though those wouldnt fly at events, since theyre using 6 detachments
aaah
well thats up to the event
there is no rule that restricts number of detachments
i dont follow much outside of itc, so i dont really know
no, but most folks at casual level would at least raise an eye-brow if you rocked up with 6 of the things
again that depents on your local meta :)
i reckon most people dont even think about it
most events do restrict it tho and generally follow GW's recommendation from the rulebook
well at first glance it probably looks like a brigade, until you notice they have 6 commanders and no heavy support
but it's not a rule, so they dont HAVE to
considering the ... looks .. I got for playing a Decurion every now and again ... I can imagine some "Frank Discussions" going on if a T'au player came with 6 detachments and 15 CP and a bunch of commanders to spam stratagems ... tables would be gently tilted .. if not flipped
I hope Tau ends up being decent but the book will make for a lot of unhappy Tau players for a while; not perhaps due to lack of strength but a lot of the stuff in the book just feels pointsless/useless or less fun compared even to the options they had in the index
considering how shite index Tau are; people will have assumed the book would instantly jump out at them as having improvements
but it actually has a surprising number of downgrades, limitations and flat out nerfs
yeah was just thinking of a polite way of saying folks were looking for the "I WIn!" button
it's gonna take a lot more work than say 'Nids to draw out the flow of this and what synergies work
so outside of commanders, what got worse compared to the index?
support systems that were options all units had access to got removed
and turned into strats
oh man, thats a can of worms
as in they were options units could just buy in the index, and now they cant
i mean... thats like the definition of taking away with one hand and giving with the other... but with a dollop of turd sprinkled on top for a bit of flavour
oh
the cherry
is that one of the support systems that was removed was the only way to protect your big suits from MW
:)
Stim Injector
aye
Interesting tidbits:
Longshot pulse rifle now has additional ability:
This weapon may target a CHARACTER even if they are not the closest enemy unit. If you make a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, it inflicts a mortal wound on the target in addition to its normal damage.
kind of like rail weapons (which Sniper Drones originally had xD) but the spelling is different
they got the MWs on 6s that other snipers have, or did something else change?
MW on 6s. I'm not sure as per wording
Rail weapons have "any 6+ to wound is X additional MWs"
here it's "a wound roll of 6+ ..."
kind of like, if you shoot rapid fire, 2 dice, rolling 2 6s for wound, it only gives 1 MW
but I'm not english native speaker, so
hmm, not sure. likely something that will come up in the faq
i feel like its been copy-pasted from other weapons that only fire a single shot. i think its intended to apply to each wound roll, instead of only once per weapon
otherwise you'll have to roll hits and wounds separately for each drone, which will likely get tedious
Yeah, I guess so.
Doesn't look bad, actually ;) BSData/wh40k@598cd30
That on master @amis92?
If so I’ll have to pull down and see how my previous lists faired
Nope, branch. We still have a week to go, don't want to hinder releases.
also, gun drones got 50% increase in price i beleive, they really ragged on the commanders + drones lists
Soooo....Savior Protocols. What if anything changed with that?
They're now 2+, not automatic.
Not huge, IMO, just more of a hindrance, but hey, rolling is the game.
For each wound? In other words, like a really good old school Look Out, Sir!
Yeah
And then the drone rolls a save as well? Or does it do a mortal wound?
Hey, how much is a minimal point cost of AM Battalion?
(after FAQ they were MWs, no saves)
Battalion? Like 450 points
Oh no wait less than that
Like 175 points, but that's with taking a mortar (+5 points) in each infantry squad so they're at least somewhat useful. You could do it for 160 without them
Well hold on
Battalion requires 2 HQs
Tau are now at 189 for 2x Fireblade and 3x 5-man Strike Team xD
So absolute cheapest 200 points
I'm happy now
:D
did someone get a copy of the dex?
Actually
I was wrong
180 absolute cheapest version
Nope, https://imgur.com/a/eV25Z is the most I got
Ohh. Well, still not bad :D
lists ive been seeing are commander + fireblade + 3x 5-man strike team, repeat ad nauseam
Yeah 9 points over guard isn't bad at all
I dunno if 3 counts as "ad nauseam" LOL
why is there a spoon on it lol
someone asked for a pic of codex with spoon to check if OP is authentic
That's a reddit thing, a timestamped pic with your reflection in a spoon
nah joe, these lists have 6+ detachments
Oh, didn't know it was a reddit-wide thing
ive never seen it either, but i assumed it was a verification thing
Spoon distorts reflection so not easily identifiable
I just love internetz
lol
so are Tau going to be broke?
Well maybe not "reddit wide", but definitely at least sorta something redditors use to verify when posting potentially leaky info
Cuts down on fake news (lol)
no, tau wont be broken. all indications are they'll be good at best, passable at worst
I'd say it's all up to abilities now, last thing we don't know?
So I'll admit I don't know much about Tau other than battlesuits and the drones spammed ad nauseum
But there are a list of drone types like "Command link drone" "grav inhibitor drone" "Guardian drone" "Vibrating power thrust drone" etc.
well that's good, last thing we need is a repeat of 7th
Are these new? What do they all do?
Vibrating power thrust drone ROFL
Not new, but specialised.
sounds like a tau sex toy
Shadowsun has two specialized kinds (special Shield kind with 3++ and Command one)
Ghostkeel has specialized
Oh hang on lemme share something with y'all
Broadsides have Missile ones
Riptides have their own
Pathfinders added 3 new types when they got the new plastics (these wierd-named ones, like Grav-inhibitor one)
So the girlfriend and I share an Amazon Prime account
And then there's your 3 common types: Gun, Shield, Marker drones
A couple of days ago I order this item:
To use as a rotating paint stand (aka "lazy susan") for airbrushing
Later that evening the gf sends this:
The shipping notification
xD That's hilarious
wtf-joe.png
^ XD
She said, "I didn't know if I should be excited or terrified."
LOL
LOL
and sadly it would be neither
I told her that would depend on if the 10" were length, diameter or....radius
Anyway...a good LOL
Huh. If you look closely at that screenshot from her you'll see the SSID of my home network
So what do all those drones do?
25 mins to home lol, that her commute?
Yep
ouch
In Austin that's pretty good
In Atl it's bare minimum unless you are lucky like me
Especially considering we live in Cedar Park area (NW) and she works SE
my wife's is about an hour easily
Yeah I :heart: working from home
"Man it took me over and hour to get to work this morning, traffic was horrible." "Really? Man it took me like 45 seconds to walk downstairs and start the Keurig."
as per index, grav inhib is minus to enemeys move, pulse accelerate increases range of pulse (i just realised if this is the same then borkan have 42" pulse rifles, recon is ... something to do with deep strike i think (edit: its no cover saves for enemys)
minus to enemey charge* sorry
takes me about 12 mins to get to work lol
if I hit every red light
8 if I get them green lol
16 miles one way, takes about an hour for me...yay California! My old place was also 16 miles from work, 15 minute commute. Some days I miss that commute, but I prefer owning a house.
Some sample lists of mine before->after:
1525->1377pts
1990->1715pts
1525->1377pts
1990->1715pts
hey @amis92 how’s mechtau looking?
you've all missed the most important question ... are Tau things still monsters or have we seen any <Vehicle> keywords appear ? - mostly joking .. but be funny to see if anything slipped in
only the ta'unar as far as i know
its a monster battlesuit, and not a vehicle
ie. the opposite of a stormsurge
So...in my local meta there's a guy nicknamed Tony Tau
He plays 99 drones
anyone watching the twitch stream ? apparently two GW T'au haters are trolling folks
So is that foolishness going to continue
drones are much more expensive now, so depending on what type of drone they are they'll cost ~25% more
^this
if it’s all gun drones they ddoubled iirc
8 -> 12
damn lol
still a big bump
was hoping it was a straight double
so T'ony T'au can only afford 66 drones now
also means it’s only +4pts to buy sms
yes plaese
oh wow
on a fish? yeah
they went from 127/151 to 112/118
thats for drones/sms
my mechtau list dropped points so hard i can have all 4 of my tetras, all boats have 2x seekers, AND still have points to spare
i like this
hmm
can i fit my piranha too?
holy shit i can, i’m just 1 seeker over
this list is still garbage but i love it lol
LOL
CrusherJoe @CrusherJoe quietly sets @alphalas on fire. :fire:
oh seekers are 5pts now? crap gotta find that extra point
and theyre actually useful now
++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (T'au Empire) ++
- HQ +
Cadre Fireblade: Markerlight
Cadre Fireblade: Markerlight
Longstrike: 2x Smart missile system, Exemplar of the Kauyon, Railgun, Seeker missile, Warlord
- Troops +
Breacher Team: MV36 Guardian Drone
. 9x Fire Warrior
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse pistol
Breacher Team: MV36 Guardian Drone
. 9x Fire Warrior
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse pistol
Strike Team
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse carbine, Pulse pistol
. 11x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Carbine
Strike Team
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse carbine, Pulse pistol
. 11x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Carbine
- Fast Attack +
Tetra Scout Speeder Team
. 2x Tetra Scout Speeder: 2x High intensity markerlight
Tetra Scout Speeder Team
. 2x Tetra Scout Speeder: 2x High intensity markerlight
TX4 Piranhas
. TX4 Piranha w/ FB & 1x SM: Fusion blaster, 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Seeker missile
- Heavy Support +
TX7 Fire Support Hammerhead Gunship: 2x Smart missile system, 2x Seeker missile, Twin heavy burst cannon
TX7 Hammerhead Gunship: 2x Smart missile system, Railgun, 2x Seeker missile
TX7 Hammerhead Gunship: 2x Smart missile system, Railgun, 2x Seeker missile
- Dedicated Transport +
TY7 Devilfish: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon, 2x Seeker missile
TY7 Devilfish: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon, 2x Seeker missile
TY7 Devilfish: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon, 2x Seeker missile
TY7 Devilfish: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon, 2x Seeker missile
it’s a pretty bad list lol
but holy crap mechtau lol
there any stratagems will buff that out you think ?
I see Burst cannons obvs
not really; maybe the breacher one?
what sept would you run with that?
oh, longstrike, nvm
speaking of which, his WT is Strength of Belief
I let I ran long strike with it – because of the better railgun; I might just drop him and I don’t know
This is a very index list LOL
yeah, i realised after i said it that it's a CA trait
I haven’t touched it beyond adding the two extra tetras and the piranha
Anyone have any pointers of where to take the list? Lol
I’m not married to longstrike so it doesn’t have to be T’au sept
borkan y'vhara(s)? :smile:
also remember that unless they folded the FW into the codex the twin heavy burst cannons on the hammerhead are still only heavy H16 D1 not double the one on the riptide (which would be awsome at H24 D2)
as is the way with FW, they dont get the shiny updates that the codex brings in
Yeah no that’s a given
It’s more of where do I go from here, staying in the mechtau theme?
a manta, obviously :D
Right after I buy a contrabass trombone the manta is next...
I’m assuming longstrike is still the only HQ ‘head for tau?
Is anyone interested in a new on sprue Imperial knight before I toss it up on ebay?
which country?
US
ah
Sadly i don't have the budget right now or I'd build it with magnets and resell :P
Is anyone working on the Adeptus Ministorum datafile?
#2625 am i off base?
They're specifically in the wargear section
but yeh... have fun with this one
Oh boy here we go
But seriously anyone working on the Ministorum datafile?
@CrusherJoe you stay out of this lol
I ask because I synced GitHub on my Mac (it's been a while) and open it in the Data Editor to all those errors
no i meant the index discussion
Oh no not saying a word about that
I think my position is well-documented. Don't let anyone tell you they can take old shit that the Codex CLEARLY replaces.
REGARDLESS, back to the question at hand
And I looking at something wanked up with my Github desktop sync or is the Ministorum file seriously in Master in a wanked up state?
@alphalas designer document unfortunately specifies wargear options in the data slate, so while you can still take from those lists, they need to be the codex versions of those lists
its like I was telling Amis, if they'd have trimmed down the autarch gear instead of not using a list, eldar would be fubar
@CrusherJoe I have revision 15 with no errors
so I would suggest that something is wanked up with your sync
because I sync'd like, an hour ago or something and that's the file I got (i.e. with no errors)
Make sure you imported the newest version of GST In the editor
Remember it doesn’t automatically update the GST when you’re syncing from Git
Yeah, having the latest GST in the right spot (ie ~/BattleScribe/data/Warhammer\ 40\,000\ 8th\ Edition/) has bit me more than once
Huh I have the latest GST
gawddammit
???
What the actual fuck. I deleted my repository and re-cloned it, and the errors persist.
yikes
.....
Okay that makes no sense
But whatevs
I just updated BS
It was still showing ads though it recognized my Supporter pass
Refreshed that
Re-opened
It updated data
And now it's good
:+1:
So GST issues I guess?
I love it when problems fix themselves
shrug
I love it when problems get fixed and I know why LOL
But in this case I'll take it
:+1:
So
Vermintide II is great
There all open bugs with my name on them -- squashed
Hey @alphalas I know you're off in xeno heaven right now (lol) but I am trying to remember if you officially handed off DKoK, Elysians, AM and AdMin to me? I only ask because right now you're getting assigned to those thing instead of me and I don't want you having extra work
(which all sounded good in my head but now I think it may sound puerile...it's not what I intended if it did)
my default is Imperium (other than admech and astartes) = assign alpha and joe
and let you guys sort out who is supposed to be fixing it :D
LOL
That's a pretty good default :)
re: tau index wargear
i feel like RAW tau should still have access to their index options (is it just stim injector?), but RAI it should only apply to wargear that is represented on the model
i feel like RAW tau should still have access to their index options (is it just stim injector?), but RAI it should only apply to wargear that is represented on the model
NIEN
because the whole point of that rule was to not make your older models wysiwyg-invalid by virtue of no longer supporting their options
If they changed it to be a strat/relic/trait that's what it is now
and since there's no physical stimulant injector part on the model, your model is still supported by the codex wargear options
@GenWilhelm unfortunately, RAI has no place here most of the time
as much as I HATE sounding like BCB
the designer commentary was "if it was on the wargear options in the datasheet" then you can continue to use it
Are we really about to go down this road?
stim injector isn't, it was in a separate list that has been altered
If they changed how an effect is achieved, isn't that the whole point? It's no longer wargear, no matter what's on your model.
Otherwise the changes in the Codex are null and void.
there's no precedent for wargear > strat
fortunately we sidestep all the bullshit because of my previous comment
stim isn't covered by designer commentary
but the example they use is a commissar taking a wargear option that isnt on his datasheet
its taken from a wargear list that was stripped out in the codex
was the whole list stripped out?
or just options removed
just options removed
So the whole point of the Codex is to change how an army/model does certain things. If they have moved that to a strat/relic/whatever that doesn't mean, "Keep using your old wargear options, never mind this codex is how the army should be played now"
went from any power weapon to just sword or fist
welp, then they've hoist themselves by their own petard and stim injectors are a go
@amis92 I hope you like tags
@GenWilhelm good spot
and as much as I dislike it, we've got to follow what the doc is, and then sort out our standards in our own gaming groups if we want to differ
:shrug:
it was pointed out in the last comment on #2625, i was just explaining the point
CrusherJoe @CrusherJoe weeps for humanity.