These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

16th
Mar 2018
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 04:43
funny thing
two brightlance war-walkers are better for shooting T8/T7 vehicles than an equivalent points number of DR (6)
(before severe negative hit mods, but they pull out ahead still at just -1)
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 07:19
I decided I would only do eldar if they release a model of cegorach. That would be dope.
also, i don't have the $$. I do not get paid for high school
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 08:59
Why are you supporting the datasheets in boxes like the anniversary primaris captain, while not supporting the data sheets in packs like the 5 man unit of guard?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 09:11
They recently reboxed the pushfit guardians. Wonder if there's a 5-elf guardian datasheet in there
Though the lack if DG would be a question for @Mad-Spy
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 09:13
the DG units are in
The Lord Felthius and Tainted Cohort box comes with a sheet for a unit of 3 blightlords (codex unit is min 5), those are there on scribe. One of the models coudn't be used as modelled without that data sheet due to it not having a melee weapon
The primaris captain has wargear not supported by the index or codex so again, couldn't be used without that sheet
the packs with less than the normal unit size of models can't be used as is unless you use the data sheets in the box
they all allow use of some configuration that is not supported by index/codex but they have been inconsistently either supported or not supported
They are all valid datasheets published and supplied by GW so I'm unclear on why any of them would be unsupported
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 16 2018 09:29
All of the Chaos ones are in their catalogues.
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 09:30
aye
I think it's my OCD making it bug me that some of the others don't get supported :)
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 09:38
There is a pack of 3 easy build plague marines (not the Plague Bretheren) which also has a data sheet for what the box contains
i guess the distinction may be that the some of them are given a unique unit name while others retain the index/codex unit name but have different model counts.
Packs of 3 Rievers also have a sheet for a unit of 3
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Mar 16 2018 09:48
follow the flow chart, "does your model apear in a codex" yes Astra Militarum "does your model have wargear options that are not in the codex" no, hence, we use the codex, basicly theres no provision for taking anything from a non codex source other than wargear
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 09:50
Then you may want to ring GW up and and suggest they stop wasting paper printing data sheets to go in the boxes; clearly GW intend them to be usable
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Mar 16 2018 09:51
they are, in free/narative play, not everyone plays matched, but thats all we support (i think, someone correct me if i'm wrong)
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 09:54
There is nothing in the main rulebook, indexes, codexes or on these individual datasheets that says they're not usable in matched play
hoping when i nip to the shop at dinnertime (about 2 hours) they'l have my Tau codex in
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 10:09
if they do i can snap some pics of all the pages like I usually do, but the epub will be out in 12 hours time, will people want t he dodgy version early ? (as in, is it worth the effort of me taking photos and making a pdf?)
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Mar 16 2018 10:09
but they're in the codex, and the flow chart is the best peice of "official" doco we have on the matter
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 10:11
the data sheets themselves explicitly give you permission to use them, says something along the lines of "the following rules will get you started on the battlefield, if you want the full rules look at the index or codex"
dont get me wrong; i'm not that bothered.. it just gives me OCD tingles
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Mar 16 2018 10:17
doesnt mention any exceptions for useing these in matched play over the codex, in free play/narative play, go for it, but GW also said you can still use the index as is for those kinds of battles too, for matched play you use the flow chart, as explained above
sorry if i sound scratchy its not my intention
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 10:21
as i said, nor does it say anywhere that they cant be used in matched play
its an officially supplied datasheet for a unit, clearly GW intend for people to be able to use them, otherwise why would they supply them?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 10:48
The basic understanding i have is that the only source we have for rules precedence is the designer document, and as it stands sheets with the same name are overridden by the codex. GW does plenty of things that might not make sense in the grand scheme, but even the sheets you speak of direct you to a codex for full rules, so they include thier own override clause
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 10:48
Remember that the Designers Commentary only deals with Index vs Codex issues; it makes no mention of datasheets from other sources.
By what you just said; when Forgebane comes out, the datasheet for the new Knight won't be usable
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 10:49
@skonk yeah I'll be grateful for early shots of datasheets, may not have much time tomorrow :D
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 10:49
it will, no other datasheer with the same name
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 10:50
DC says "what datasheet should i use" - and then only gives index or codex as choices
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 10:50
read the second half of my first comment instead of tunneling
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 10:51
i did read it
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 10:51
I think, if we want to include these sheets, unless they have a different name, they need to be disabled for matched play. Matched play uses points and restrictions as dictated in Codex/Index, where there are specific unit sizes allowed.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 10:51
the sheets say "look at the index/codex for rules" as in other places, that means it goes to: "Is there a datasheet in them with the same name? Use that. If not, use this"
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 10:52
Box-sheets don't provide these values.
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 10:52
the points values are found elsewhere
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 10:52
Not points, unit size.
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 10:52
DC says you use the most recently published points; it doesn't tie those points to having to be in the same document
this all sounds like rules lawyering to me
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 10:53
actually not always, bonesinger, marbo and presumably the armigers will have points in sheet
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 10:54
GW have never stated that multiple datasheets with the same name can't be valid
infact there have been many cases where there HAVE been multiple datasheets with the same unit names being used at the same time
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 10:54
There are two places where unit size is kind-of defined. One is in Datasheet, and it defines unit building, Power Level etc. The other, at the end of Index/Codex, defines points costs together with unit size.
In previous editions, yes.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 10:54
it has to be sadly, because these "pack sheets" have the same name, and by extension a codex-defined unit size outside of that sheet
and current FAQs have made it so back of the book unit size takes precedence over datasheet (deathwatch index being the most notable example)
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 10:56
you're basically making a load of assumptions based on no actual statement by GW; which goes against everything you were discussing and writing up guidelines for the other day
to support all options until GW say otherwise
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 10:56
:( that may very well be true
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 10:56
ok, how do you propose identifying these sheets where they differ from the codex entry?
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 10:57
Unit Name (datasheet)
or something
note: I have emailed the 40k FAQ address to try to have them clarify how and when these datasheets can be used
i personally have no intention of using any of them
but it feels like a big old inconsistency with how stuff is being handled
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 10:58
I'll send in one myself. Hopefully they address it in the march FAQ
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 10:58
my guess on GW's response will be that the datasheets can be used but likely with some restriction like 1 per army
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 10:58
@skonk and how do you feel about under-sized units?
We don't really support them
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 10:58
really what I'd love is an extension of the DC to include a strictly defined rules precedence hierarchy
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 10:59
since if you have enough models to run multiple unit of these then you have enough models to run the proper unit
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 10:59
what if you dont have a sergeant model?
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 10:59
dunno, it's a kettle of fish like
understrength units were bullshit when they added em too
but again, going by your own guidelines if it's possible within the rules it should be supported
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 11:00
Can I say, I feel a bit overwhelmed now, as I start to more fully comprehend the infinite amount of problems we need to solve...
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:01
GW have no clue about how insane some of the stuff they've done is
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 11:01
yeah, this was what it was like before the DC update
figuring out what index stuff was legal and what wasnt
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:01
the DC update actually makes it worse if you take it word for word
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 11:01
@skonk undersized units are a problem for us simply because BS can't handle the required validation
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 11:02
it can, its just a massive pain in the neck
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:02
we've had to insert a massive dose of common sense into the reading of the DC because the "does your MODEL have a blah blah" thing, instead of saying "does your UNIT" would 100% destroy all list building rules
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 11:02
last I checked we couldn't validate against force names
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:02
the thing with understrength units....
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 11:03
idk. theres no reason we shouldnt be able to, unless the functionality is broken
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:03
that feels like it's just in there so if you go to an event or round your friends or whatever and realise you misplaced a model, you can still play
BS at least lets user delete a model out of a unit
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 11:03
basically no way to validate "are you in an aux support" vs not
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 11:04
does "Force instance of..." not work?
@skonk and for units that had their minimum size increased
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:04
going under the min size of a unit feels "naughty" to me so i don't really mind that not being fully supported; but when it comes to lower model units that exist as datasheets it makes me feel like thats a legitimate option
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 11:04
Yeah, well, by all means it looks like GW always has best intentions. But you know how the saying goes, road to hell is paved with best intentions.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 11:04
It does, but that has to validate vs an SSE, not a category, and there is no way to force selection in our structure
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:05
i wish i lived closer to warhammer world....
id be in there every other day moaning to them about rules nonsense
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 11:06
they'd probably ban you off the premises in a week :P
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:06
probably :)
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 11:06
Or lock you in with the rules writers. Can't decide what'd be worse ;D
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 11:06
hopefully I'll get to make my second visit there when i go to the UK later this year
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:07
i think GW are good at writing rules in terms of creativity; coming up with interesting stuff... but they fail at making sure those rules work correctly and interact in a predictable way with other rules
all of which could be solved by... for example
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 11:07
Apparently i'm not as awake as i thought
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:07
If I ran GW right... (lol)
the first thing id do is id come in here
and id have you all sign an NDA
and then i'd give you full access to a repository of all the fucking rules we write, early versions through to final releases
unofficially support BS.... and get you lot to feedback on the rules
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Mar 16 2018 11:09
HAHAHAHA, you think there's a repo of all the rules!!!
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:09
cos imo, there are very few places with this concentration of rules knowledge :)
i dont think there is, id make one
the moment a book comes out you'l see every rules issue flagged up by someone in here
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 11:09
thats a consistent issue with 8th, the lack of follow-through on how often they step through combination chains
example: custodes allarus bomb
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:11
hows that one work?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 11:11
the more worrying thing is how they seem to react to some of the tactics used when its not the studio team playing
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:11
i think what probably both the players and gw don't fully get is that GW's seem to take their own rules less seriously then the players do
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 11:11
its almost outright disdain for tactics like flank denial and reserve shocks
Allarus Bomb. short version:
acquire 1 bike scaptain, 1 allrus vexilus praetor with the praetorian plate, and some allarus terminators
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:13
got got and got
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 11:13
1) choose the bike captain as the target for the praetorian plate
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:14
ah i think i guess it.. but go on :)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 11:14
2) during enemy charge phase, use stooping dive stratagem on shield cap, immediately triggering the praetorian plate if charge successful
3) use vexilla teleport homer stratagem in your own turn, since your vexilus praetor has indeed been in position and on the board for your entire turn!
result: several angry golden boys striking danger close with no intervening retaliation phase
for extra 'fuck you' times, then use unleash the lions to make that drop squad into X single-model units
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:18
:)
i may be tempted to give that a go :)
just with 3 naters tgho
tho^
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 11:19
3 is plenty
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 11:19
what size are their base?
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:19
40mm i think
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 11:19
fun fact: works on the achillus dread too
anything that can use FTGL can technically arrive that way
wardens, contemptors, etc
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 11:21
anything but a land raider basically
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:21
lol
oddly enough; I don't really rate using any of the mechanised stuff in a custodes list
in the end, it feels like the dreads and LR are actually easier to kill and dont do as much damage as the same points put into more infantry
or bikes
the bikes are good
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 11:23
yeah, but the problem is people dont mind pointing their AT at custodes infantry
so its not like other armies, where not bringing vehicles wastes a lot of your opponents firepower
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:24
id rather someone shot their d6 weapons at a unit of custodes than a LR tho
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 11:25
whats the invuln on the LR?
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:25
it has none
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 11:25
RIP
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:25
2+ save but it has a wound ignore
since its venerable
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 11:26
yeah, i knew about the FNP, but thats just like having a few extra wounds
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:26
yeh
the dread has a 4 or 5+++ and an FNP
but its still way easier to kill than a unit of 3 plain custodes troops
by nature, the custodes all having the 4++ and a min of 3 wounds means shots always end up wasting some of their damage
on a dread or tank there is much less damage wasted
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 11:27
yeah, i worked this all out at some point
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:27
when they announced custodes a lot of people were moaning about the low model count and that
where as i always said that people were massivly underestimating the effect having 3 to 4 wounds on everything would have
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 11:28
it takes, on average, 1.36 d6s to total 3 or more
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 11:28
attacks that would wipe entire units of most stuff out end up being split in half cos 1 shot rarely outright kills a model
I'm fond of running a single shield/sword guy in my units of spear dudes too
the 3++ combined with 3 wounds will eat up so many shots
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 12:11
ive just had an epiphany. unleash the lions is a banana bomb
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Mar 16 2018 12:17
:clap:
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 12:28
I know I’m super-late to the party on this but the consensus I was given with the reivers sheet was since it’s technically an understrength unit of reivers, we treat is as such; and since we’re not officially supporting under strength units...
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 12:32
well according to the datasheet, its not understrength. the problem is whether or not the datasheet is legal in matched play
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 12:33
I’d assume not; since each one has the “here are the rules to get you started” blurb
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 12:34
Thing is, we all assume :<
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 12:38
having just bought a start collecting box ... I don't honestly recall seeing the "points" cost for matched play on any of the datasheets .. just power
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 12:39
^this
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 12:54
am I the only one that loves sisters of silence.
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:25
the DC doesnt tie the units and points to being from the same source
as in it actually states that they can be from different sources
none of the datasheets in the indexes or codexes have matched play points on them
you always have to go atleast as far as to another area of the book
but the DC says use the latest published points costs, which could be in a different book
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:28
but you are talking from the position of having access to ALL of the points sources, so logically as a 'user' I can take my Data slate from the start collecting, throw those units into BS and magically have access to the matched play points for those units without owning index/ codex / chapter approved
Surely I should have a jumping in point where I need to subscribe to a set of points to apply to my unit of 3 not 5 min squad
thus if I own the codex, then I have matched play points costs .. but no longer need to use the datacard from the box as codex supercedes
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:31
the need to use it would come down to models
if you own the codex and then go into a shop and buy a box of 3 rievers, without using the datasheet in the box you would be unable to use those models
which is clearly why GW include the datasheet
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:32
yup .. I see ... that's a catch 22
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:32
the datasheets tho, are usually less feature-full
they dont list any options and sometimes dont have the full assortment of special rules
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:33
yup .. I know that from experience
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:33
so in theory you would only be able to use them as-is, with no options to be changed.....
now you could then argue that the DC lets you have access to the missing options
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:33
I had to load BS to figure out which weapon variants to build a carnifex with
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:33
i would suggest it does not
since the DC only covers Index/Codex issues
so personally, i would say the small units would be usable but only with exactly the wargear options that datasheet is listed with
the DC would not apply to these sheets because it only covers what happens between index and codex
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:35
I'd suggest then that BS bypasses the boxes data sheets as not legal for matched play ... unless you intend to buy up a single one of every model / squad available ? just to get the rules ... I don't think they are available to download are they ?
becomes an issue of logisitics rather than RAW
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:36
thats a pretty heavy bit of rules lawyering tho
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:37
you're a TO aren;t you ?
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:37
i am not
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:37
aaah my mistake
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:37
TO's can obviously ban whatever they like :)
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:37
just wonder how a tourney like ITC would handle it, just out of curiosity
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:38
i'll poke them next time they have a stream up
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 13:38
i know @CrusherJoe is a TO, and he'd probably hit you with a block of gouda if you tried it
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:38
I know you all club in for the codexes etc. but I have no idea how you'd crowdsource getting the latest up to date data sheets for the quick build models
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:39
google
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:39
Someone would, for sure, be thrown into the sun
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:39
tbh i wouldnt even bother touching them until someone directly asks
like when i asked
if no one is asking for them then no need to implement them
im bias to the ones i own so i asked about them
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:40
so now we're just negotiating as to how many requests for onerous ideas are required before something is committed
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:40
well i wouldnt say this is onerous is the thing
my only reason for arguing it at all...
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:40
not for "your" models
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:41
is because i repeatedly see discussion in here about supporting anything remotely legal and about NOT rules lawyering
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:41
but if you d o it for one .. then you need all .. to be consistent
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:41
but in this instance
we have an officially published datasheet
that people are deciding is not match play legal
with no evidence from GW to say thats the case
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 13:41
I would judge if you wanted to use 5 guard models in a a Codex entry -- which is the ultimate authority for what you can take in an army -- you would have to take it as an understrength unit
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:42
I'm good with debating the principal
principle
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 13:42
Those get started things are training wheels
That's all they are.
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:42
if the codex is the limit to what you can use then any new units they add after a codex is released wont be usable
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 13:43
Have we had any cases of that since 8th?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 13:43
sly marbo
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:43
the knights in the new box
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 13:44
well knights dont have a codex yet, unless you want to count admech
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 13:44
Okay does that datasheet include points values?
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:44
it will have to for them to be usable
but it wont be on the datasheet
it will be in part of the documentation
but not directly ON the datasheet
datasheets do not have matched play points on them, ever
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:44
@CrusherJoe we all get the 'intention' of them Joe, but as @skonk describes .. there's nothing that says they are restricted from play ...
the point I would go back to, at risk of sounding like BCB is 40K is a permissive system and if nothing gives explicit permission then you can't do that thing
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 13:46
other way round. 40k is restrictive - everything is restricted, except where it isnt
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 13:46
It is a permissive ruleset
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:47
ive always seen it referred to as permissive
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 13:47
i thought permissive was everything is permissed, except where it isnt
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:48
i bet no ones ever really looked it up
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 13:49
"Why can't I deploy my fortifications on the side?" Because the rules don't say you can, jackass.
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:52
oh btw
deployment rules are specified only in the missions now arnt they?
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:52
correct
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:52
if you look at the main rulebook missions they dont specify WHOLLY within your own deployment zone
they corrected it for the chapter approved missions tho
but technically, if you play the main rulebook missions you can just stick the toe end of a dude in the zone and then chain the rest out as far as u want
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:53
did they correct it in CA to add the +1 to roll off for first turn in BRB missions too ?
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:53
no
it was just done in the new missions
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:53
thought so... house rules it is
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:54
rarely see anyone NOT house ruling it tbh
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 13:55
@skonk it does specify wholly ... it says models not units :smile: "The players then alternate deploying their
units, one at a time, starting with the player
who did not pick their deployment zone. A
player’s models must be set up within their
own deployment zone. Continue setting up
units until both sides have set up their army."
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:55
ah
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 13:57
So, probably 90% of the things I made "rulings" based on have been discussed by an international forum of other TOs, about 150 people total. It's the ITC TO group on FB. It can be a...lively...group
First rule of ITC is "It's your event, run it how you want to"
But some of us like consistency, so we discuss things. Kind like crowd-sourcing rule rulings.
That, at 50 cents will buy you some gum in terms of "GW Official"
But GW doesn't answer all question in a FAQ or errata
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:59
a lot of the ITC rulings are point blank changes to how a rule works tho, its not that they just decide on how to interpret an ambiguous rule.. they will sometimes just flat out change a rule
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Mar 16 2018 13:59
if an entry doesnt have an entry in the codex, eg sly marbo, then i'm pretty sure in the datasheet it says "in matched play use the following points", hence permitting the use in matched play, if doesnt exist on the flow chart, if however codex AM2 comes out with a sly marbo in it, then following gw rules you would use the entry in the new codex,
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 13:59
No @skonk you're thinking of 7th edition ITC
8th edition ITC doesn't have a rules changes FAQ anymore.
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 13:59
even in 8th
ITC allows jump to work in any phase does it not?
i never looked but ive had people say it to me when ive brought up the fly issue
and by jump i meant fly
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:00
Um....no
I'm looking at the most recent version of the ITC FAQ
here it is:
FAQ
Reference the Games Workshop Designer’s Commentary document found here. Additional FAQ documentation by Games Workshop will be added to this section of the document as it is released.
Games Workshop’s Index and basic rulebook FAQ’s can be found at the link below. Please read through these and become familiar with them. Players downloading and saving/printing PDF’s for reference during tournaments is strongly recommended.
Games Workshop’s FAQs
In addition, the ITC has implemented the following FAQ item:
The Beta Targeting Characters and Beta Psychic Focus rules are in play for ITC events as presented here on the Warhammer-community page.
That's it
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:01
ah right, well thats people trying to counter my arguement by lying then
That's the entire document
The one for 7th was a small novel of bullshit rules changes
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:02
they changed the way ruins work btw
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:02
Yes sir you are correct
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:02
so they have modified/changed GW rules
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:02
And that's a fucking good thing
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:02
but yeh, its almost nothing changed compared to 7th
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:02
Actually the only change to them is that 1st level walls in ruins block line of sight
That's a convenience so TOs worldwide didn't have to glue covers over all the windows on all those ruins terrain pieces
We have...300 ruins terrain pieces? 400 maybe? Cover all those windows or make a rule? Yeah...make a rule.
And that's just our group. Imagine how many LVO has. Or NOVA.
Nope, no thank you. Please drive through.
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:04
i wonder if what that document says and what reece or frankie would say if you asked them a question directly would line up
because i brought up and issue with one of them once and he just outright said no you cant do that... when the rules say you can
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:05
I loathed some of the 7th ed changes. Electrodisplacement, for example.
Man keep in mind they -- like the rest of us -- are only human. Mistakes will be made. I know I don't remember every rule in the game nor every possible interaction.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:07
I wasn't saying ask ITC for a definitive answer btw ... just thinking that they might have some common sense guidance about players turning up with a quick start box of boys
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:07
And honestly as far as the Guard datasheet thing goes, play how you want, but keep that shit in Open or Narrative play. IDGAF what people do in Open or Narrative.
If you're just getting started that's where you need to start anyway
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:08
i wouldnt want to use it either way
that was not the issue
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:08
But for Matched Play, use the codex version of the datasheet. Simple. Easy. Done.
I think a prime indicator that it's not intended for Matched Play is the lack of points values.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:09
Yeah. The issue is, we don't restrict our catalogues to Matched Play, do we?
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:09
not supporting and saying its matched play only when there is no official document to say that should be the case just goes against your own guidelines
if you just say "i wont support it cos i dont want to" i'd actually be fine with it lol
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:10
@skonk you make a good point all through
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:10
but saying i wont support cos its <insert rule based reason here> when there isn't actually a rule to say thats the case gives me the heebie jeebies
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:10
Okay, fine. I don't support it because I feel like some gaggle of asshats wanting to whore out Guard for CPs for their Banana Hammock boys will try to build a battalion for 80 points. So, no, I won't support it.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:11
lol
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:11
And -- like it or not -- BS is the de facto list building software. The nightmare scenarios including that datasheet could create for TOs makes me break out in hives.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:11
think we need to apply some validation to the user base not the models
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:12
well... thats why i was happy when you decided to remove those daemons from the CSM books
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:12
talking of which ... any word / whisper on the GW approved "App" ?
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:12
that was a decision that actively helps to educate the players
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:12
For the specific case of box-sheets, I think an argument (someone posted earlier) that may hold is purely logistic. We won't be able to buy every single box and get their sheets into BS.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:13
@amis92 I have a good idea once a month ... born out of idleness
would be hella different if GW published datasheets for free somewhere
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:14
the other thing with those is that a user can just delete models fro ma unit to take it down to 5 and just have it throw an error if they really want to so its not like its impossible to do anyway
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:14
Not always.
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:14
the app thing, i think GW making one would be waste of time
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:14
By the same token -- and this is a conversation @alphalas and I have had -- technically speaking the Auxilla units should be included in the DKOK and Elysian cats because taking them doesn't violate Regimental Doctrines....which opens the door for Bullgryn in deep-striking Elysian Valkyries
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:14
the AOS one shows they dont have the resources to keep it up to date with new releases
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:15
But @alphalas said if I implemented that he would drive to Texas and murder me....sooooooo
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:15
xD
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:15
worst thing they could do is hand you the license and some some resources to "prettyfy" BS
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:15
With an entrenching tool
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:15
if GW had any real sense they would un-officially support battlescribe or something
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:15
Don’t forget that detail @CrusherJoe
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:16
Oh I didn't
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:16
I think the problem with those one-off datasheets (one-off in terms of appliance, not publishing) could be easily solved if users could add completely custom units.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:16
Hang on @amis92 has officially lost it !
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:16
Sure they can edit catalogues, but there's no editor on mobile. There was even a suggestion on UserVoice, I believe.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:17
can you imagine the horror of user entry and trying to check for legal points
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:17
^this
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:17
I have occasional nightmare of you standing at the foot of my bed waving an entrenching tool chanting "Elysian Bullgryn hold the lettuce, special orders don't upset us."
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:17
Encouraging users to edit the data themselves is a whole Nother can of worms
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:17
Oh, they could be marked visibly, anything.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:17
There is actually a group of in my general local area that will not let you use BattleScribe list because it’s not hard to edit the data
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:17
angry Khornate worms !
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:18
That's a thing I wholly and actively WILL NOT support.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:18
Now granted they are also white wolf fanboys, and we also don’t like them because the owner of their shop is a pedophile, but that’s besides the point
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:18
@alphalas I think my future plans will delight that group...
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:18
Actively encouraging users to modify BattleScribe data is a bad idea
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:19
Not modify data, but add custom units.
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:19
PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY OR UNHOLY DON'T DO THAT
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:19
Tremors Graboids ... worms
Frank herbert worms of Dune !!
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:19
That will effectively make BattleScribe go from de facto list building software to the banned list building software
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:19
Yes
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:19
@amis92 I’m with joe
That is a terrible idea
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:19
I will ban it and I will actively push the ITC ban it
We already permit too much bullshit
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:20
Even if such a roster clearly distinguished such a unit?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:20
Yes
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:20
@amis92 ... I think there's a consensus for not doing dis 1
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:20
Because users will find a way around to make it look like it’s legit
Cheaters going to cheat
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:20
You can edit HTML
You can edit PDFs
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:20
And if we give them a better tool to cheat it’s not good.
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:21
You can edit the datafiles but that take a modicum of intelligence and most don't have the time or patience to learn how to do it
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:21
And considering some of the issues that ITC has been having with their higher level tournaments and list building let’s not introduce another can of worms
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:21
can edit HTML yeah ... takes some effort ... different to handing them a rulesbook and a box of crayola and saying "Go mental!"
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:21
OF WHICH guess what the #1 reason/justification/excuse is?
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:22
most of 'em would eat the crayons
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:22
C'MON GUESS
"Well Battlescribe let me do it."
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:22
^TJIS
THIS*
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 14:22
dont even joke about that
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:22
I'm not joking.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 14:22
ive had enough headaches from that already
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:22
We’re not
Exactly
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:23
As I said, I'm an active TO in communication with TOs worldwide on a daily basis.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:23
And tbh that feature adds a million more unnecessary headaches
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:23
Okay, so I'll not do that until I've reached my target:
  • Every repo release will be uniquely signed
  • Every roster will contain a signature of the data it was built with
  • The app will support "obtaining" oppontent's roster before game
  • ???
  • profit
and by roster, I don't mean pdfs or htmls, they're a representation. A roster is the XML file in this case.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:24
every edited roster puts an indelible watermark across the page "I EAT GLUE!"
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:24
So you’re going to make it so that TOs have to actually look at each individual that Ross file? Bad idea MS – TOs don’t have enough time to look at printouts for crying out loud
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:24
@sk_Father_Price_twitter I may actually steal that
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:24
Nope, we sure don't
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:24
.ros*
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:24
GOD NO
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:25
Just a dark watermark that reads "CHEATER!"
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:26
A service/webapp where users send their roster files, and TOs can at a glance see if anything's wrong, according to some rules. You could set points limit, allowed sources, required repo version, etc etc
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:26
which I would do for every fucko that uses Index entries, but I digress...because fuck Index entries once Codex is released
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:26
BS being integrated with some cloud based system where a TO could setup a repository (maybe using a key that can be shared with the players) where the players submit their lists and can download and view all of the lists in that repo would be cool
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:26
@
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 14:26
ey
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Mar 16 2018 14:26
this presumes that the TO's trust the BS data implisitly
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:27
/me hands @CrusherJoe duct tape again
CrusherJoe @CrusherJoe sighs and duct tapes self...again.
sk_Father_Price_twitter @sk_Father_Price_twitter always thought it was Duck Tape
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:27
Well, TOs could set up their own repos, but I highly doubt that...
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:27
anyone with an ounce of sense would realise that 500 people doing math of paper will never be as reliable as battlescribe
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:28
@skonk you don't visit reddit or other places much ?
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:28
i try to avoid places with people
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:28
"I hate BS cause I can do a much better job in pen n paper!"
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:28
Yeah he’s got a point
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:28
Who? :D
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:29
okay ... I'm getting looks at work for giggling like a loon
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:29
BattleScribe bashing on reddit and FB is totally a thing
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:29
what i like about reading the issues here....
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 14:29
and then those same people show you their hand written list, and its riddled with mistakes
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:29
Okay, TOs here: what would you actually want, ideally?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:29
If you're REALLY serious about doing something like this
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:29
almost everyone who thinks the data is wrong... is themself wrong
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:29
"BS was wrong this one time 20 years ago, I'll never trust it over my (now out of date) Codex!"
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:29
Integrate with Best Coast Pairings
I have all their email addresses -- they're super competent database/web/app folks that are dedicated to the game
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:30
thats kinda what i meant before btw
sk_Father_Price_twitter @sk_Father_Price_twitter waits for the /sarcasm tag
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:30
BS hooks up to a cloud service like BCP
you "join" an event
and push a list to it , which goes into the pool of all the other peoples lists who joined it
and you can view them all as you like
maybe have a button you hit if you find an issue with a list so you can give feedback
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:31
If BS could pair up to BCP that would be fucking fantastic
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:31
It does that now but only if you upload your roster as a file of some kind or take pictures of your list with your device
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:32
but i mean like all inside BS, one interface to work with
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 14:32
ey folks
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:32
But BS integration? THAT sir, would be FANTASTIC.
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:32
basically like how BS already integrates with appspot for downloading datafiles
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 14:32
@R42H you need to expand a little more :D
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:32
What's up @R42H ?
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:33
you pop up a list of all the events, tick the one you want to join, shows you a list of all the submitted lists for you grab and view etc
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 14:33
ey thanks @CrusherJoe for your help yesterday, Imma get the editor working later
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:34
With BCP you register for an event using email address and password (BCP user account and also how your ITC scores are tracked)
And in the Player App it should up under "My Events"
You're welcome @R42H . :) Glad to help.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 14:34
instant access to lists from major events? that'd kick netlisting up to a whole new level :P
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:34
BS kinda already does most of what it would need to do with its link to appspot
making it so you sign in to the event would be easy enough
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:35
They already offer that to "subscribers"
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:35
password etc
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:35
Non-subscribers (read: non-premium, non-paying users) only see rosters for events they're registered for
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:38
doesnt feel like it would require much work to expand what BS already does with regards to connecting to appspot for data, into what would basically be a system that does the same as BCP but in a very automated way all under the same interface
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:39
Now this all being said;
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Mar 16 2018 14:39
i dont think BS integrates with Appspot i thought it pulled data from the repo?
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:40
well where ever it pulls from
would just need to able to push files to a server too
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 14:40
even if we are going to do this thing with BCP, I’m still of the mindset having custom units is still a bad idea
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 14:41
I think this goes back to - like or not, Battlescribe is a rules arbiter. It has to be. If it isn't we should allow custom catalogs, units, rosters, no validation outside of what is explicitly said no.
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:41
my point was that BS can already pull files from a server, give it the ability to push files to a server and then setup an area for the files to go, a database to deal with the events and which files belong to which event logins etc.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:42

I know it's not 100% of the function you are thinking about ... but there is a hosting / viewing scoring site recently setup

https://miniheadquarters.com/

Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 14:42
So - No vote on custom units and I am wholely against a new entry for every single datasheet that has a single slight difference and is obviously not meant for matched cheese.
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Mar 16 2018 14:44
this doesnt need to be in BS, just add a form on the tourney page, "upload your roz" file here
the only thing i could see being usefull is a tool that runs over the data, given a certain version, and checks for validity to make sure no one has editied there cat files
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:47
i liked the idea of it being all under one roof and the checking would basically be one by everyone who downloads a list locally to their client
their own client would validate it with their own data files
anyone spotting issues can submit the issue (maybe it could go to both the TO and the list writer) to be fixed
anyone editing data files would get cought out by everyone else who views the list
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:48
mob justice is best justice
called getting a 'Tony' ing
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:48
I'm of the mindset having custom units is a bad idea, period.
grrrrrr
Okay, gonna say this once
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Mar 16 2018 14:48
scope creep, BS is not designed for viewing rosters, hence it doesnt allow for multiple versions of the same cat files, if you wanted to add that to a web service designed for viewing lists then sure
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:50
btw nothing i was saying above was anything to do with custom units
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:50
Everyone slags Tony for what he did -- which was deplorable and awful and he deserves it. But everyone praises fucking Nick like he's the goddamned Avatar of Justice and Karma or something. What everyone seems to overlook in their rush to praise ol' Nick "The Brown Magic" Navanti is he did the exact same asshat move that Nick gets shit on for doing
I've met them both. They're good guys, but they turn into douchebags when playing at LVO
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 14:50
Basically - users can edit their own catalogs - always have and always will. Just like they can simply lie on a army sheet. We should not ... discourage people from using the editor ... it's not our private playground. I mean, we essentially told @WindstormSCR to make his own repo because he was looking to make a more mobile friendly environment when we said we'd not be doing that in ours.
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:50
So I think they should both be banned for life
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 14:51
the only thing that beats a bad-guy who WAACs, is a good-guy who WAACs... or something like that
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 14:51
He did, discovered how much of an utter pain in the ass it is, and came back to the fold :smile:
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:51
the reason tony was worse than nick was because tony convinced alex to give up his turn when nothing in the rules says he should have, and alex made the mistsake within the same phase as the mistake was revealed
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:51
No, @GenWilhelm that answer is unacceptable
You either have situational ethics or you don't
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:51
tony vs nick, tony didn't use his rule in the correct phase entirely
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Mar 16 2018 14:52
@Kohato that and 8th is much simpler than 7th, meaning the mobile version isnt as needed
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:52
nick was still a prick tho, but not to the extend tony was
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 14:53
@CrusherJoe i was being facetious. i obviously dont believe that two wrongs make a right
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:53
The point is Nick decided a win was worth more than his dignity and self-respect, and acted accordingly, even while saying the whole time, "Well I don't like winning games like this, but..." "But" nothing, You sold your self-respect and dignity for a win and that's that.
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:54
alex was also at fault btw
he did some stuff, within the same phase, out of correct order. He should have just back tracked and correct the order
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 14:54
he tried to, but tony said no
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:54
alex should have just done it
lift the deepstrikers off, do your moves, put the deepstrikers back
if you do a rule wrong and realise it right away, in any other situation, you could just correct the mistake
no reason he couldn't have done it in this case
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Mar 16 2018 14:55
only if your oponant lets you
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 14:55
Likely, Tony would've called a stop.
And had a judge over, made his case, and had the same reuslt
because ... rules are rules.
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:56
They're both shitheads, and neither should get a pass on their behavior
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 14:56
The man helped measure the entire phase - he know what was happening.
They both aren't good. at all.
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 14:56
rules are rules, so find me the rule that deals with when you mistakenly do something out of sequence
CrusherJoe @CrusherJoe points back up to his "shitheads" statement.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 14:57
There are no mistakes.
You did this. The phase is over.
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:57
Correct.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 14:57
As a ruling, that's all there is.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:57
@all - apologies, was referencing this as meme-worthy for some social justice around lists .. not calling out any behaviour on any parties side ..
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 14:57
Welcome to Competative 40k
You have shitheads, bigger shitheads, and rarely, kids wanting to have fun.
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:58
Disagree
Disagree 100%
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 14:58
Adults too I suppose.
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 14:58
You have hobbyists playing a game they love, and about 5% of them are WAAC assholes
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 14:58
problem is most of those kids dont have the money to properly fund it
and dont get me started on the delivery tax on forgeworld
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 14:59
You're right, most are just people who enjoy to play - but the WAAC assholes are the ones who tend to get the most notariety
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 14:59
least you don't live in AUS / NZ
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 14:59
its 12% where I live
  • 2% vat
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 15:01
here in the UK, ya know... where FW are.. if you want "express" (up to 4 working days) delivery they charge almost 22% of the order value
tekton
@tekton
Mar 16 2018 15:10
@Kohato some of us are just really large kids
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 15:10
I'm a more-or-less fully functional man-child
But at least I own it and embrace it LOL
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 15:14
Hey, I dress my self in the mornings
most mornings
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 15:14

MY missus is running a cooking class at home tonight and I'd double booked to have a 40k game vs a mate, I said "I'll setup upstairs in the lounge" She said no ... I threw my teddy in the corner and am now going out to play at a third party's house ...

I claim to be the biggest man-child

on that note ... which army to play vs. his inquisition 2k list? Ravens or Necrons
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 15:18
I have my teddy as an avatar almost everywhere. The nickname Amiś in Polish means "a-bear" (miś=bear). Dodge this.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 15:18
Depends on the ordo he is.
Ordo Xenos - Ravens all the way
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 15:20
Hmm ... might be time to dust them off then, cheers
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 15:21
oh btw, i went to the shop and they had yet to have a delivery. it may have arrived since but I'm not getting my hopes up for it coming today now. Tomorrow maybe but GW have been so shit before that it could end up being a week late :(
so no Tau codex yet
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 15:22
Oh well, people can wait 1 day
They were getting too used to having toys for free on release day.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 15:22
oooh. well, if anyone happens to have a link to any "leak", please share ;)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 15:22
Whoever maintains the mega that I frequent usually has them up the day they're out - i'll check tomorrow.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 15:23
I think we frequent the same mega ;)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 15:23
That's entirely possible. I've always wondered whos it was. Didn't think it was anyone here's
but that ones the only one I've ever found that actually had pdfs of the old grand alliance books for sigmar
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 15:24
No, I don't think it's anyone here's.
One of those will have everything you need, usually on release day
That's the one I have bookmarked
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 15:26
Yep that's a good one
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 15:27
Well, there's my Tau codex xD Thanks Joe!
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 15:27
ooooh custards for my dropbox ... yummy
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 15:28
Double check and make sure it's current
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 15:28
that tau says 7th
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 15:30
Oh yeah, it's 7th, didn't expect 8th. Just never got around to obtaining that nice 7th pdf. Sorry for confusion.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 15:30
hahah
But why would you want to read anything from 7th
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 15:30
Fluff
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 15:30
Well that's fair
The book did have good fluff
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 15:30
+pics. They don't always reuse all pics.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 15:30
i used to have it and the Farsight softcover they re-released
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 15:31
I recently re-read the Siege of Vraks books
Go down ONE rabbit hole looking for Shadowsword info/paint schemes/markings....and 3 books later look dazed and confused wondering where the afternoon went
tekton
@tekton
Mar 16 2018 15:34
i wish i knew where my Black Templar codex went, moved quite a few times since it came out so I still fear it got lost in one of those moves years ago :(
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 15:34
It's probably in one of those megas
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 15:35
/me fondly remembers @CrusherJoe diving down that rabbithole and the nonsense that ensued
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 15:36
What's the Elysian book?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 15:36
Me - “hey joe check out those Elysians”
@CrusherJoe “Elysians what?”
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 15:36
Yeah it went downhill fast
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 15:36
the anphelion project?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 15:36
D99 was anphelion
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 15:37
Next thing you know I'm looking at $500 of FW orders....uh uh nope
lol
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 15:37
I want to say vanilla Elysians was mymyra or the necron book
Maybe kastorel-novorem?
I don’t remember it’s one of those 3
It’s either kastorel or mymira - necrons was DK
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 15:39
Kastorel-Novem
CrusherJoe @CrusherJoe just opened the pdf to verify
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 15:39
according to lexicanum, its both of those and taros
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 15:41
Kastorel-Novem is Elysians and Raven Guard vs Orks
tekton
@tekton
Mar 16 2018 15:42
i get to make a small group of raven guard to go with my custodes list and my grey knights pretty soon here
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 15:45
Taros was the introduction to Elysians; Kastorel-Novem was the improved version iirc
And anphaelion counts for nothing because D99 was actually tempestus assigned to Elysians; who were then seconded by Lok
I’m kinda glad GW was smart enough to not make a 82nd Elysian regiment
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 16:05
well, it's been great as always ... happy weekend gaming guys ... time to face the joys of the M60 at peak traffic
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 16:12
LOL the M60 is a firecracker here in the US
...and a machine gun, and a tank
All of those would make navigating traffic much more entertaining
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 16:17
Kastorel-Novem is actually good so far
....and Two Steps From Hell makes a good reading soundtrack for it, too
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Mar 16 2018 17:07
if i order over £100 of forge world its cheaper for me to get on a train and pick it up in person
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 17:25
@/all so very late to the party..... As far as the box sheets go, I think until FAQ says otherwise the best thing we can do to be compliant with our own standards is the implement them and then hide them if Gametype: Matched is selected, along with tagging them. While I think there is a logical method by which they could be used in matched, there are also significant enough questions about doing so that caution is perhaps the best option pending FAQ
As for custom units: big fat NO
I'm usually the one arguing for flexibility/inclusion, and that is just a nightmarish can of Fuck that doesn't bear thinking about. if someone's savvy enough to make a homebrew unit that isn't terribly, poorly designed for their local shop/group, they're usually savvy enough to know how to put it into BS
hell, I have two of those for terrain pieces that I've hand-made for some of the narrative games
@amis92 signing data versions sounds good, until you realize just how little the average person pays attention to it, and how little time TOs for large events have to check it. It sounds good, but you'd need some kind of webapp to dump stuff to that could auto version check, and that relies on dudes sending the TO the right file format to begin with. Its just frankly beyond the scope of this particular project
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Mar 16 2018 17:30
All-singing all-dancing is nice for a vision, but would probably burn you out trying to maintain
now back to the salt mines
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 18:38
Game canned due to RL .. back to making murder bots
Any thoughts on my latest monstrosity ?
https://i.imgur.com/BIsHKUO.jpg
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 18:41
I'm a fan of ripping gun from gunships and placing them on infantry
Not so much of a fan of the green blocky thing
unless those are round and i just think they're square
tekton
@tekton
Mar 16 2018 18:41
looks like two of the tubes that usually go on the warrior guns
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 18:42
it's the gauss bit from a gauss cannon welded onto the side of a tesla gun cause I loathe the look of the metal / resin heavy destroyer mods
4-tubes
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 18:43
Tubes would be fine - it looked like a square block melded on a bunch of round parts and it didn't mesh for me
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Mar 16 2018 18:44
yeah potato camera
bad angle
Hmmm can cut the tesla muzzle off the end and replace with a gauss one to distinguish it
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 19:50
hoi, after obtaining the new tau codex i decided to modify the tau data files since i thought that would be less pain in the ass than using pen and paper.. little did i know^^
i asked amis if he wanted the updated version and he told me that he is already working on it and pointed me to some how to's. now i wonder if i could edit the stuff just using the battlescribe data editor or if its really neccesary to use atom and the bare code. the latter seems a bit overwhelming to little nooby me^^
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 20:20
Most of us use the data editor as our primary method of entering data lol
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 20:20
that is good to hear^^
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 20:20
A lot of us are just schlubly non-coders lol
tekton
@tekton
Mar 16 2018 20:22
I forgot there's an editor sometimes...
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 20:22
i just got the impression from the tutorials. they all told me to open it on the github app and i got the impression the only thing to do there is open it with text editor
so ic can just open this branch here with the data editor and get going?
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 20:49
hey
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 20:51
Hmm?
Alrightythen -- all bugs with my name on them closed.
What's up @R42H ?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 21:04
:horse:
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:08
ey i need som help
again
i am BS noob here
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:15
acctually no. I did it! It works! I can now help edit stuff!
YAY
@CrusherJoe what now!
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:20
can i see anywhere who is currently working on the tau codex and what he does?
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:20
hey im keen to help on that
how & what do i do
im new here
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:21
amis said for example he is updating point costs but im not sure if he used leaks or real codex and if he is done..
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:21
I dont think the reak one has come out yet anywhere
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:22
@R42H im also new so dont accept help from me^^
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:22
yay. im not alone
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:22
i have it as physical copy
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:22
the tau codex?!
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:22
jep
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:22
?!??
how
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 21:22
@h4lek1n unfortunately with how the XML merges work it’s probably better if you don’t
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:23
help from ehterals^^
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:23
jah
@alphalas what can we help with
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:23
so he couldnt use my work if i use the editor? just when i work on the bare code?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 21:23
Neither @h4lek1n
It’s GitHub where the problem is
Not the editor
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:24
?
so your updating the new stuff directly in xml?
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:25
well that sucks. he said he could upload my stuff if im finished faster
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:25
@alphalas are you guys doing the new codex stuff in xml direct then?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 21:26
Honestly probably your best bet is to edit the file and send him the file directly
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:26
@alphalas because if so i wont take long for me to learn xml
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:26
ok then im doing that. thanks.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 21:27
@R42H go back up and read again
You’re talking a conversation out of context
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:27
i had to steal a pen today for my army list. rather update the file even if its just for myself^^
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:27
@alphalas oh right
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 21:27
@h4lek1n fair enough
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:28
@alphalas can you help me, I want to lend a hand in this.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 21:28
And if you send the file directly to amis he can copy-pasta into his file from yours
@R42H I appreciate that; honestly my best advice is to open up a finished file in the data editor, and the roster editor
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:29
ok...
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 21:29
And familiarize youself with how things work with constraints links etc
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:30
right. take the smaller bug fixes to learn the ropes.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 21:30
The problem we have with multiple people working on files at the same time is the XML loves to conflict
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:30
indeed
so i am reading
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 21:31
And to sort out a conflict, you have to manually go into the XML and compare and fix
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:31
pain in the broadside
gottcha
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 21:31
I’ll be honest I don’t even have the skills to do that and I have most of the imperial cats lol
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:32
ok. so how do i proqure myself some smaller fixes
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:32
that kinda contradict the whole point of github as i understand it^^
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:32
well, yes. But its a community project
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 21:33
@H4lek1n yeah we know. It’s a pain
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:34
@alphalas can i somewhere see what amis is done with? if not i start from point costs and look if hes version is up to the codex costs
point costs are imo the most important part anyway as people can look up the rest tomorrow
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Mar 16 2018 21:35
Not until he uploads to his branch
nsmaassel
@nsmaassel
Mar 16 2018 21:37
He has an issue created that has checked off what he's completed.
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:37
so this here is not necessarily the most recent one?
yeah i saw the issue but not sure if its from leaks or real codex
his email wasnt clear on that either
the part on "farsight probably" suggests its from leaks though
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:41
@alphalas can you give me some advice on how I can get me some smaller bug fixing jobs to learn the ropes?
im really clueless
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:42
well find an error first^^
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:42
assme i have one
do i just take fixes as errors come
or are they pre assigned
?
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:44
so far i have only figured out how the edit existing entries. but from what alphalas said it would appear that you would be a bigger help to collect errors and send them to the guy whos working on the codex with description of the rule. that being said i started getting into that only hours ago^^
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:45
right.
I dont own the codex curuently tho
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:46
there are some howtos for the xml part and merging, pulling issues ect. but if that doesnt work as alphalas said, it wouldnt be much help unless you can make an entiire codex on your own
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:48
right
im still confused
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:48
uhm do you guys have also the issue with the data editor freezing after a few changes?
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:48
is this getting annoying?
@H4lek1n how so?
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:49
it just freezes after i put in a few point costs
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:50
can say i have? What platform?
*cant
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:52
data editor
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:54
as in, windows, mac etc
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:54
sry windows, but it seems to work when i dont use the modifier
R42H
@R42H
Mar 16 2018 21:55
odd.
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 21:56
somebody here who really knows the editor? if i put in power lvl, i know how to edit the basic power lvl but not how to express that it can change if there are more models in the unit
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 21:57
there should be modifiers that increment the PL with a condition to check the number of models
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 22:01
You can reference existing cats as well. Necrons is compact enough to serve as a reference.
And it's mine. So it's right.
Of course.
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 22:02
but not in the root selection entry. can you tell me where? i just go from root selection>boradside>follow link
im a bit afraid to mess things up for amis if i dont do every model right^^
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Mar 16 2018 22:03
yeah, follow the link to the actual entry. root selections should just be plain links
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 22:06
ah now i get it. ok there i can set the profile ect. still dont figure out how to do power lvl. but i guess if i do the basics and tell amis what i left out it will save him time anyway
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 22:12
As much as I appreciate all good intentions, I'm now in possession of the rules and I'm on fire ;) In a couple hours it'll all be done.
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 22:13
alright but if you like and it it saves time i can do some basics.. basic PL, point costs, profile for example
more if i get tut for dummies from somebody else while you are working^^
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 22:14
Is it sexy time for xv8 suits Amis?
Because I want sexy time for xv8s
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 22:14
Not really ;(
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 22:15
:(
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 22:15
@H4lek1n I wish I could, but it'll most probably take more time to merge our changes than for me to just do them :< the tools we use are just not good enough
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 22:16
rails got cheaper, throw away seekers, dust of riptide
thats the basics^^
@amis92 alright sry i couldnt be more help
if it makes things simpler and you tell me the line in xml i would do it there but alphalas said that wouldnt work either
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 22:18
Interesting, never used seekers anyway, and glee
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 22:18
they dont do mortals anymore
just another w6 like we alrready have so many
ion blasters on the other hand outshine missles now imo. overcharged cib got upgraded to 3 shots
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 22:21
Yeah, ion weapons are the new black, baby.
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 22:22
no big surprises all in all, mostly point changes but i think the codex is niice. just the septs and warlord traits of named chars are a little bit annoying. shadowsun for example is tau sept, meaning 5+ stand and fire and the warlord trait of her is reroll hit rolls if you dont move. doesnt work that well for her i think
longstrike is better.. ignors wound on 5+ and stand and fire on 4+ when charged. all the tau sept chars mess up my detatchmend plans^^
surpreme command detachement it is i guess
oh and broadside a lot cheaper since basic costs and rail costs got down. that are the major changes i can think of. but feel free to ask for specific models or weapons
cant really make photos, would have to translate anyway^^
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 22:29
im guessing we will see a lot of farsight + cib suits in meta and maybe more troops than before
oh and sniper drones are partly useful now. still same awfull profil with ap 0 but do mortals on 6+ so maybe if you take a bigger number it could actually work
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 22:36
forgot the best part maybe except cheaper rails: coldstars do have guns now^^
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 22:40
Tis a shame Crisis Suits don't come with any CIB's in the packs and only 1 in the Commander pack as I remember.
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 22:43
yeah i print my cibs
here you can get them cheap too
better ones from chinese recasters but for 2.5 usd they are nice i think
my uncle said either gw or fw ship out single weapon options to but only if you call and dont know the price
i have to say the top recasters have better quality than fw though^^
James
@skonk
Mar 16 2018 23:00
:)
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Mar 16 2018 23:04
Hey, do we keep the Keywords profiles, or can I remove them now that categories show up?
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 23:07
dont the keywords change anyway acording to the sept
tekton
@tekton
Mar 16 2018 23:16
remove them @amis92
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 23:30
so cold. poor keywords
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 23:32
Yea remove hem amis
tekton
@tekton
Mar 16 2018 23:35
@H4lek1n I play Grey Knights, we have no emotions aside from glee at the termination of beings of the warp- everything else is just as it is
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Mar 16 2018 23:35
They were a holdover from before they showed in list view
tekton
@tekton
Mar 16 2018 23:37
...that said I also play Tau, about to start on my new Stormsurge and Riptide ;)
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 23:37
alright anhilate the keywords for the greater good.. or something
off topic newb question.. is the list for the marine units space wolfs can take in the index up to date? im really sorry to ask this.. im a 6th edtion fantasy player and still wonder what an index is
tekton
@tekton
Mar 16 2018 23:42
@H4lek1n yup, it's pretty accurate these days on all fronts :)
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 23:42
Yes it is
I maintain the Wulfen :)
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 23:43
so wolfs dont care for astartes codex/index?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 23:43
(actually all of the Wolves)
I mean they don't actively disregard it
The have their own way of doing things...and no other Space Marine is going to tell the Wolves of Fenris how to do it
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 23:44
knwing the wolfs from fluff i think think they disregard it very activly but thanks^^
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Mar 16 2018 23:44
Remember they're basically Vikings in Spaaaaaaace
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Mar 16 2018 23:47
there was a space marine stalker on ebay and i wondered 40 seconds before the end of te auction why i couldnt find it in bs...
wolf colors and the title said wolf stalker/hunter....