These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

9th
Apr 2018
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Apr 09 2018 00:25
To be fair I have to say it's never come up
Transports being sucktacular n'all these days
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 00:25
it'll definitely show with drukhari
with how fragile they are and being mostly foot+transports
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 00:32
@CrusherJoe and any other airbrush fanatics: the FW air paint range is going goodbye
if you want to stock anything before it's gone
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Apr 09 2018 01:46
SO
Latest from the "playtest rumormill"
Soup is no more for matched play
At least for Imperium, Chaos and/or Aeldari being the only keyword needed in common for Battle-Forged
And
Max of 3 for any non-troops unit per army
Actually, as it was put to me: "Max 3 of any one non troops choice"
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 01:48
that is going to break many themed lists
like windrider-based eldar
that isn't even very good
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Apr 09 2018 01:48
This is for matched play
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 01:48
and to ignore that matched is the "default mode of play" is a damn fool's crusade
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Apr 09 2018 01:48
Looks like GW is sick of the bullshit and are swinging the banhammer down hard -- IF these rumors are true
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 09 2018 01:54
I’m half tempted to circulate a censored screencap of that, get a feel for it from my locals
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 01:54
@CrusherJoe $20 says that they goof and forget to include dedicated transports as an exception
which would annihilate marines, DE, and mech IG
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 09 2018 01:59
And my mechtau list; probably could still make it work though i think
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Apr 09 2018 02:17
What's "mech IG"?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 02:18
lots of chimeras
but minimal sentinel/hellhound support
so mechanized infantry company style
averages 4-6 chimeras
tekton
@tekton
Apr 09 2018 03:42
If those are true i’m super happy my guard are still on their boxes and will get to them in November
How will people take assassins at that point? Unless it’s just for a single attachment that they can’t just share imperium, but army wide it’s ok...
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 03:53
we'll have to see, some faction might get the same "mercenaries" treatment some units get in thier own books
phoenix lords, DE mercenaries, etc
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Apr 09 2018 07:13
max 3? Per Detachment or per army?
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
Apr 09 2018 08:15
prinse
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 08:22
if those changes are real i think it's just going to push me over the edge of giving up on 40k entirely
they dont particularly effect me but im sick of all the changes
one of the key points they laid out about 8th edition was to reward people for playing themed armies
almost every bit of narrative they produce has "soup"
every chaos space marine fluff piece has daemons take part
most space marine fluff have guard and shit featured
entirely mono faction armies are totally against fluff
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 08:58
I call bullshit on that. There, said it. Too hardcore. Commander limit? Hurts, but well, I can do. Tyrant limit? Pretty much the same. Points increase? Stupid but it's a continuous balance thing.
Cutting off factions? Nah.
Although as an owner of T'au, Necron and GK, I don't soup at all xD
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 09:05
i think even the commander and tyrant limits are going too far at this stage
each new codex they release could potentially counter current problem lists
effectively fixing the issue without needing to make changes
changing stuff in such big ways when there are still loads of rules yet to be released is stupid
and issues in competitive events can be solved by those event organisers imposing their own restrictions in the meantime.
balance doesn't always come from nerfing things
opposing forces being buffed can have just as big of an effect
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 09:11
I agree, and sign under that with both hands and feet. GW doesn't, it seems :<
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 09:11
:)
what pisses me off the most with the commander thing is that commander spam was never competitive
it was just the best Tau had
they havn't put that limit on to balance them vs other armies
they did it because they don't want Tau players only having to buy a few commander models and considering their army done
but all they needed to do was design the strats properly and commander spam would have gone away of its own accord
instead they make the majority of the strats only work on commanders and then limit them to 1 per detachment
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 09:17
Well, that limit did exist long, long ago in 4e Codex, and it is kind of fluffy (although it's imposed only in matched meaning it's not for fluff but as you say, to handicap competitive arena)

But yeah, it's like "hey, Commanders are super important, let's make two-thirds of strategems work on them" but then someone else just thought "remember that Commander spam? let's kill it with fire" and added handicap.

And all the other guys laughed in silence: "You try to keep your super-important Commander alive, fool. You try."

James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 09:21
its fluffy to not spam commanders, i agree with that
but its also fluffy to have, for example, a Farsight Enclave made up primarily battle suits
in 7th for example you could have a list of nothing but suits just fine
But its just the constants changes that are starting to do my head in, if they change much more then it may as well be renamed to 9th edition and they could put a new book out with all the changes incorporated in. Considering how much they lorded the "fact" that this edition had been so well tested it's turned out to be a massive clusterfuck
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 09:24
Well, you can now too with a Vanguard. But now it's not even "not rewarding", at that point it's rather "punishing" in terms of CP gained.

massive clusterfuck

That's like the best summary I've seen. :cookie: for you

Also just couldn't resist https://imgflip.com/i/280h22
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 09:36
lol
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Apr 09 2018 09:50

Morning all ... what's going on in he.........

https://i.imgur.com/nXtO8u1.jpg

CloverFox
@CloverFox
Apr 09 2018 09:55
if it is no soup, i bet it will be per detachment, you want a single assasain, pay 1cp take an aux detachment
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 09:59
no one mixes soup in the same detachment anyway if they want to keep army rules
its only when you want to take like.. greyfax, celestine and something else
stuff that has no codex yet
but as i harped on about above....
as soon as these all get codexes people will likely stop mixing them too
hardwired changes like this aint needed, not until all the codexes are out and had time to settle
but the real cockpunch of all this is that "soup" is by far the most fluffy way to play
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 10:02
yeah, they wont be doing away with soup. it defeats the point of faction keywords
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Apr 09 2018 10:02
am I reading it right ? that soup change would read "you're no longer battleforged if you take Faction keyword "Imperium" lists ?
So guard and Space Marines etc.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 10:04
this is "rumours" with no source, so the salt/content ratio should be greater than 1
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Apr 09 2018 10:09
oh I get that ... and to paraphrase myself talking to a friend "I don't think it will happen .. but the fact it even came up on the table for discussion shows the lengths they are considering to fix tournament play"
and by fix... I mean what you do to the randy dog without saying the V E T word
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 10:29
I'm confused as to what is actually happening behind the scenes. On one hand, I feel GW takes in some of Reece's feedback (make Tau-infantry-army great again?!), but on the other I'm not sure even they (Reece/ITC) would do so dumb things (i.e. commander limit, no-soup).
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 10:30
One of the issues is that they never really tested it properly
Reece claimed early on that they had tested every single unit
over 1000 units
which means they never actually played a real game
cos every game must have had a new set of units in to test
as soon as 8th launched and the eyes of the world were on it; all of the issues the testers had missed instantly get spotted
I also blame them for other stuff too
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 10:32
Maybe a positive test result was "it works at all"/
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 10:32
there is no rule for example, that limits how many detachments you can use
there is a suggestion for events to use x number of detachments based on game size but that was likely to do with keeping the time needed to complete the games predictable
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 10:33
I think it wouldn't be a problem if CP distribution system was not so dependent on it.
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 10:33
but reece and frankie always go on about it like it's a rule, so now the wider community thinks its a rule
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Apr 09 2018 10:34
one of the reasons I maintain that people with such vested interests in niche aspects of the game should not have tested it ... needed fresh eyes
or other control groups
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 10:34
theres a 2k event coming up in my local shop at the end of this month and i'd like to run custodes with some guard to help with CP
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Apr 09 2018 10:35
or any methodology at all
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 10:35
but i also want to run Greyfax for some psychic derfense
and id like to run the new warglaives, just cos they look nice and ive painted 2 up
but i cant
cos like.. ya know.. can't have more than 3 detachments
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Apr 09 2018 10:35
play open
;)
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 10:35
its an event
and NO ONE plays open
everyone who says they do, doesnt
cos everyone uses some aspect of matched play regardless
ive never met an "open" player who doesnt still use some form of points to form their armies
or who doesnt still use the rule of 1
or who doesnt use the advanced terrain rules
etc
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 10:36
Can't you put Greyfax in with Guard?
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 10:37
not if i want to keep the guard codex rules
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 10:37
supcom?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 10:37
Yeah, I know. But you still get CP anyway, at least.
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 10:38
a warlord trait and relic is required on them
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 10:38
only doctrines and stratagems require pure detachments, warlord traits and relic are a given
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 10:39
spose but not having my re-rolled 1's to shooting would hurt
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 10:39
Yeah. Know your limits and you can actually get something even with that det. limit.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 10:40
you could take greyfax with two cheap HQs and and warglaives in a supcom
the HQs wouldnt get doctrines, but thats not a huge loss
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 10:41
yeh id looked at adding celestine and maybe eisenhorn
but cost gets a bit much
my point was tho, that this limit of 3 detachments is pretty arbitrary and imo really not needed
armies that struggle to get cp will struggle regardless
armies that dont struggle to get cp wont struggle regardless
so why impose the limit at all
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 10:42
idk, i think it helps keep cheesey stuff in check when you're trying to be super competitive
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 10:42
i forgot to mention that i also wanted assassins in
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 10:43
you can drop an assassin in the the supcom too
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 10:43
for casual play the list would be a battalion of custodes, battalion of guard, a vangard of greyfax and the assassins then a super heavy aux with the knights
supcom ends up costing too much to get the HQ's in
i'll just end up not running the knights
stick a couple of units of jetbikes in instead
i just wanted to use them cos i thought they'd be interesting (i don't think they're competitive at all)
it's the end of the world as we know it ! ... and I feel fiiiine!
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 11:32

Light theme

What kind of heathen..?

Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Apr 09 2018 11:33
TIL .. I'm a filthy heathen too :( ... Dark theme would attract too much attention at work
maybe this @CrusherJoe is the new Guccifer2.0 and with his leaks will force GW to release the FAQ earlier to head off his knowledge!!
36DD Checkers !
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 11:41
earliest source i can find is a thread on /tg/, where it went down about as well as you would expect
really just goes to show the quality of rumours, when its a screenshot of our chat that gets passed around
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Apr 09 2018 11:46
Desperate times @GenWilhelm ... people will look in the strangest of places for a little juicy fix
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 12:05
Dark Theme all the way
Dark Reddit. Dark Gitter. Dark Life.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 12:09
And also grim dark future.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Apr 09 2018 12:09
reminds me .. just watched the "Solo" trailer ... gave me dark chills, in a good way
and last Jedi is out on Apple TV now so I can finally watch it
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 12:10
Also, I wonder how many people lurk here for ... the random chance of a rumor?
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Apr 09 2018 12:11
@Kohato - you have rumours ? Khajiit has wares if you have rumours
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 12:11
lol
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Apr 09 2018 12:11
I think I just thoroughly outed myself as a lurker
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 12:11
new from the playtesters: grey knights are out, codex will stop being sold in july, GREY KNIGHTS keyword will not be legal in matched pay
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Apr 09 2018 12:12
LOL
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 12:12
screencap that and go claim your internet points :P
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 12:12
I guess some are lurking, but not really for rumours. Just a casual lurking fun, getting some early info on datafiles, enjoying our discussions ;D
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Apr 09 2018 12:13

@amis92

enjoying our discussions

only til @Thairne shows up with the angry marines

Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 12:13
now you've gone and done it...
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 12:13
Then it becomes even more enjoyable :fire:
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 12:15
How dare you @amis92
What could EVER be enjoyable about the lie that Dark Angels are LOYAL
That is heresy of the highest order.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 12:16
You can't call Grey Knights heretical. Ever. Sorry. :cake:
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 12:16
Nah, GK are cool. They emps favorite red-headed stepsons
DA however. Those are the goth kids that took up hard drugs and rebelled.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 12:17
I mean, you could call them heretical. If you actually knew they existed. And you lived long enough to formulate that idea in your mind.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 12:18
Know what's not heretical? My totally legit Necron/Admech army.
As long as Cawl and Trazyn are in it, shit's all good
They best buds
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 12:18
Yeah! And also my GK supported by Tau technology!
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 12:19
So ...
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 09 2018 12:19
Trazyn is the best fluffy-enemy-merger ever
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 12:19
I haven't built my 2nd Onager yet
So ... i've been using this as a standin at home games until I do
81-YEi5PhzL._SX522_.jpg
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 12:19
i still need to try my necrons
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 12:19
It's suprisingly similar dimensions
Trazyn is just like Professor Farnsworth if he was an evil bastard. It's great.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 12:20
Good News everybody! We know what blackstone does!
Yea that looks pretty dope
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 12:23
ooh that looks well nice
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
Apr 09 2018 12:28
Lol, clicked the 'het yours here' link at the
Bottom of the article...
Lurker, btw
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Apr 09 2018 12:45
wow, the dude on the base is so full of holes ... he's such a threat that a primarch needs to power stab him in the back ..
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 09 2018 13:01
Lol my screencap of this chat has spread to reddit? Fun lol
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 13:02
I've found a heathen! May we burn him?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 13:16
how verbose is too much for repro steps?
writing up a bug rep for #2807, not sure if im going overboard :D
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Apr 09 2018 13:21
its hard to be too verbose, try to bullet point rarther than write prose, if your not sure post it here
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 13:22
  • Start a new roster
  • Select Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition
  • Add a new Force
  • Select Imperium - Astra Militarum / Unbound Army (Faction)

  • Under HQ, add a Company Commander

  • Duplicate the Company Commander
  • Change the Chainsword selection to Power Axe
  • Select the other Company Commander
    • Observe how Power Axe is selected, despite the roster saying he has a Chainsword
  • Change the Chainsword selection to Power Fist

    • Observe how the Power Axe on the original Company Commander is changed to a Power Fist
  • Under Troops, add an Infantry Squad

  • Duplicate the Infantry Squad
  • Select the new Infantry Squad
  • Reduce the number of Guardsman selections from 9 to 8
    • Observe how both Infantry Squads both display 8x Guardsman, but only one warning is shown for having too few Guardsmen
  • Select the warning
    • Observe how the original Infantry Squad is now selected as the source of the warning.
  • Save the roster
  • Load the roster
    • Observe how Infantry Squads now display 8x and 9x Guardsman, and selections now behave as expected.
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Apr 09 2018 13:24
you could combine comom steps like the first 4 into one line as most people know how to do that, also is this 2 problems, one for the commadner one for the infantry squad, or are they linked?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 13:25
they appear to be the same issue, but collective selections also have a display issue where they appear to update, but actually dont
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 14:01
@GenWilhelm why did you just break my eldar changes badly
with the GST revert
now i have to re-add the Ynnari flag and edit every single eldar cat again
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 14:02
wait what, did the GST change?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 14:03
The thing at 6:24, and now once I synced master the flag is throwing errors in eldar cat files
it might be because of a unique ID change, which could fuck up the cross-cat links
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 14:06

The thing at 6:24

You mean #2811?

because that didnt change the GST
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Apr 09 2018 14:07

GenWilhelm on master

FWAA v22 Silas Alberec now is … GST v42, BA v42 Added Open pla… Revert "Merge pull request #273… and 5 more (compare)

WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 14:07
No idea why the GST flag is broken then
that's the only thing that could have touched it
I'll keep digging
@GenWilhelm sorry for the jump then, tablet doesn't load the diffs section of PRs
Still need to figure out when/where this broke
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 14:10
ah right, no worries.
yeah, there was a GST change, then a revert to it, so no diff.
strange that that would cause errors
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 16:10
Hey, other than adding a cost type of “Wounds” is there a method of tracking total wounds in a roster?
(That anyone can think of...)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 16:11
There is not.
The only resource tracking in BS exists via Cost types
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 16:11
That is what I had surmised....
Well ... :poop:
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Apr 09 2018 16:13
couln't you have a top level item, and incraese the number in the entry using the "increment by" function
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 16:13
and have an increment for every different model type?
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Apr 09 2018 16:15
tahts what i'm thinkin yeah, maybe better to use the cost though, i presume this is for AoS? as thats basicly what they use instaed of power level
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 16:16
Yeah... AoS specifically ... one of the stats that folks are interested in is tracking how many total wounds an army is. Prior to the generals Handbook in 2016, it was a typical method to track army balance
If one were to do it, it would probably be better done as a cost type.
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Apr 09 2018 16:17
yeah, duplicate of the way PL is done in 40k
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Apr 09 2018 16:19
Huh? Is there an discussion to break up with dank angry marines memes? I thought I heard something..
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 16:19
@CloverFox That sounds like a reasonable proposition. Have to put that on the back burner until we get out the major rebuild release.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 16:21
@Thairne your vox-amps must be failing, oh ancient one. i'll have the tech-adept perform the sacred rituals at once
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Apr 09 2018 16:21
tell him to check my hip motion actuators too.
I seem do not have the same thrust in them than 3 centuries ago...
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 16:26
Well you know, age ... performance.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Apr 09 2018 16:26
but I require sufficient skullfethery of xenos after murdering them with power claw and assault cannon!
I actually have 2 memes that could relate to that sentence. Hehehe. I'm impressed by that myself.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 16:33
Not the biggest fan of wound count as an army balancer. Look at celestine for example. 7 wounds. Also infinitely harder to kill than say, 2 Eversors with 6 wounds each.
tekton
@tekton
Apr 09 2018 16:34
@Kohato until recently-ish it actually was a pretty indicator for AoS though
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 16:41
@Kohato while it isn’t particularly perfect for wound count as an army balance mechanism .. it’s a rough idea from a comparison perspective. Especially with the move to a more ‘horde focused’ push that came with the 2017 GHB. And a paper-napkin benchmark ... (it also happens to be one of the actual stats that is shared via the official website when making a roster)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 16:42
I'm curious why wounds though. It's not like you pay for upgrades. Points may as well be power level/wounds for aos
tekton
@tekton
Apr 09 2018 16:44
most of the weapons/gear are pretty well balanced with themselves/each other; points are also a new thing in comparison for AoS. Short version is that wounds are pretty analogous to PL in 40k
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 16:54
Basically current “Points” for AoS is actually more equivalent to PL in 40K (no individual weapon costs or upgrade costs, units are purchased in blocks not individually). And points didn’t exist in AoS prior to the release of the General’s Handbook in late 2016.
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 16:55
launching the game with no points system at all was really odd
40k would be gash if it only had PL though so im glad they did both
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 16:55
Prior to the GHB folks would attempt to balance based on the easiest mechanism available. Wounds.
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 16:55
PL is a nice way for newer players to build lists on paper i guess
I wish GW had used PL as the means of working out killpoints tho
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 16:55
“Let’s have a game, hows 70 wounds sound?”
PL is great if you don’t have Battlescribe ... or a calculator and a bunch of time.
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 16:57
the problem with using wounds is that it doesnt take into account the units ability to avoid taking wounds
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 16:57
This is entirely true.
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 16:57
imagine death guard vs space marines using wounds instead of points
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 16:58
However ... 2 space marine forces using wounds would be pretty close.
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 16:58
yeh
Im not particularly offended by PL tho, ive played games using it
the main issue for me is the models coming in blocks
but i can see why they had to do that
the PL values are so low that you cant give a PL per model number
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 16:59
If I have an army that has 200+ wounds, and my opponent only has 50 wounds ... let’s hope they can handle a horde
In general, one could divide points in AoS by 10 ... and not miss a beat.
Most stuff is values of 10.
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 17:00
in 40k a 5 man unit costing 4pl doesnt break down to very easy to use numbers :)
PL could shine though if they work it into missions
so PL as killpoints is an easy one
but it could probably be worked into other scenarios
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 17:02
IE a unit of Tzaangor is 180 points for 10.
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 17:02
Yeh PL in 40k uses much lower numbers
100 PL around 2000 points give or take
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 17:03
They probably could have dropped the points by a factor of 10... but people like to play with “large numbers”
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 17:03
Larger numbers give more fine control
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 17:03
“Let’s play 2000 points” sounds more impressive than “let’s play 200 points”
Not when everything in AoS has a 0 as the last digit in the points cost
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 17:04
yeh, well thats the issue with AOS :)
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 17:04
It’s just different.
Roughly speaking, it puts the number of models on the table at a comparable point to 40k at the points level.
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 17:05
yeh
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 09 2018 17:09
@skonk Force of Will is the same; all your card stats are in the hundred to thousands range, but all end in 00 - but that’s probably to differentiate it from MTG
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 17:12
ah
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 09 2018 17:13
People like big numbers; even if smaller numbers get the same job done
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 17:14
Are you saying my 3000/3000 Blue eyes White Dragon could have just as easily been 300/300?
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 17:15
And to stop the jokes of “The Power Level! It’s over 9000!”
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 17:15
Hey, you leave the logrithmic scale of DB power levels out of this.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 09 2018 17:16
twiddles thumbs innocently
AoS actually has a smaller version of their game that runs on a completely different cost basis. But it is more of a killteams type game.
They use a “Renown” cost ... which is points (cost of unit / 5)/(number of models in unit)
So, a unit with a cost of 180 for 10 gives a 3.6 Renown (rounds up to 4)
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 20:04
my arse isnt any less sore riding this sodding bike
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 20:05
Bah, I just want the damn FAQ and DW codex so I
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 20:11
yeh i want the faq
so i know whether to drop this game or not
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 20:47
I just want it so I can laugh at people taking lychguard as troops
Also so I can see @skonk quit
James
@skonk
Apr 09 2018 20:51
:)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 21:08
*so I know where I'm going with my collection
yay gitter failures
I'm holding onto my budget because I'm hoping against hope that deathwatch gets a breath of life and something to make me feel good playing them on the table
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Apr 09 2018 21:24
me too...
although, for me, I have no budget, just a boat load of Deathwatch minis that I don't want to have to sell...
(plus they are fabulously detailed an generally lovely)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 21:25
pretty much same for me
I don't have my sniper guys anymore because I got made on offer I couldn't refuse
but I've got everything else
even some converted apothecaries/techmarines I used to run with opponent permission
but now that a decently equipped 5 man squad costs a battle tank and a half.....
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Apr 09 2018 21:55
So we will know how accurate my source is in a few days -- they are claiming FAQ on Saturday
Anyone care to give the over/under on it? lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 22:05
please yes, just so I know what the deal is or not
tekton
@tekton
Apr 09 2018 22:08
is there any rule saying that a unit can only benefit from a psychic test that buffs/debuffs a unit once? i know it's not a matched play rules question (yay rule of one), but it keeps coming up
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 22:09
yeah, main rulebook FAQ
not just psystuff but any effect with the same name
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 22:13
Correct
It's why each codex has re-worded index things
to "A unit affected by X"
rather than " A unit with X can Y"
tekton
@tekton
Apr 09 2018 22:16
i was trying to find it, i'm just super tired :(
tekton
@tekton
Apr 09 2018 22:22
@WindstormSCR the argument is that it's not an aura, it's a direct buff, ie Boon of Change for Tzeentch, or Protect/Jinx for Eldar
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 22:23
is there an example you could give?
tekton
@tekton
Apr 09 2018 22:25

Eldar “Protect: Choose a friendly ASURYANI INFANTRY or ASURYANI BIKER unit within 18" of the psyker – add 1 to the saving throws made for that unit until your next Psychic phase.”

So the argument is that since it's not an aura you can cast it multiple times on the same unit to give them a 2+ save

Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 22:26
ah, using the same power multiple times on the same unit
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 22:27
sec, I'll find it
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 22:27
can't you not use the same psyker power twice per turn?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 22:27
that's a matched play rule
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 22:27
he's talking narrative
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 22:27
ah
tekton
@tekton
Apr 09 2018 22:29
some of the newer players that just got *in to it are "intimidated" by the idea of matched play, but narrative/open they're open to
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 22:31
... new players are intimidated by matched
so lets buff units to high heaven
that'll get them into it
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Apr 09 2018 22:31
30531579_2135042436725267_7014017366321266688_n.jpg
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 09 2018 22:32
I've always introduced people to narrative list building with matched play rules.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 09 2018 22:32
yeah, matched is mostly just to put limiters on things that are easily abused by people who know what theyre doing
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 09 2018 22:32
@tekton yeah the FAQ thing only refers to auras, but the intent is fairly clear, its one of those "discuss it pregame" dealios
in fact
the RoB power WERE auras when that FAQ was originally written
tekton
@tekton
Apr 09 2018 22:39
Boon of Change for Tzeentch is semi specific, but that all answers my questions, thanks