These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

11th
Apr 2018
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 11 2018 01:00
@amis92 #2822 Sounds like a solid request, good call. :+1:
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 02:40
It also lets you hide that HQ if the sept isn't chosen :)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 03:02
that's how DE work
they show up with no <faction> selector present, or if "None (mixed)" or "Specific Faction" are selected
James
@skonk
Apr 11 2018 09:21
the fuck is this wording: “you can only pick a CHARACTER if it has 10 or more Wounds and/or it is the closest enemy model to the C’tan Shard”
that reads to me like regardless of it having 10 wounds or not it always has to be the closest model
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 11 2018 10:14
if it has 10 or more wounds, you can target it
if it is the closest enemy model, you can target it
if it has 10 or more wounds and is the closest enemy mode, you can target it
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 10:28
Yea. Not sure the misinterpretation there
James
@skonk
Apr 11 2018 11:02
because of the and/or
the and would still apply when it has 10 wounds or more
if it has 10 wounds and is the closest
or if its simply the closest
its terrible wording
i now what they intend it to mean, thats pretty obvious from other rules that do the same thing but using and/or messes up the logic
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Apr 11 2018 11:06
Using or could imply the "either/or" (exlusive) situation. I think it's all right. A typical formula even.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 12:11
Yea, gonna go with this is just fine. Did someone try to bullshit that explanation in a local game?
Because that person should be laughed back to his car.
image.png
Also the actual wording is here. Pretty clear.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 11 2018 12:13
it's from one of the powers on the c'tan
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 12:13
Oh, thunderbolt?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 11 2018 12:13
yeah, i think so
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 12:17
Yea, still pretty straitforward formula to me ... You can choose a character in the following situations: 10 or more wounds, closest model, or 10 or more wounds and closest model.
If someone tried to stop me from using it on a bloodthirster because a khorne hound was closer, the entire shop would have a rolling good time I think.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 11 2018 12:30
does anyone know what #2823 is? i dont recognise half of the words theyre using, which makes me guess its HH
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 12:36
It's a HH bug
Why it's here ... wrong repo I suppose
James
@skonk
Apr 11 2018 12:42
all i was saying is that its shit wording
it could be worded way better
who ever wrote it, needs a slap
-out
tekton
@tekton
Apr 11 2018 16:29
wtb faq so I know what I'm painting this weekend ><
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 17:50
same
though its more "are my SM really on the block or not"
tekton
@tekton
Apr 11 2018 18:53
i'm thinking about selling most of my smurfs, i haven't liked playing them as much as i'd hoped
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 18:55
I have a feeling GW will do something
having marines and especially primaris be as bad as they are isn't good for business, as much as people say rules and sales should be a separate issue
deathwatch I'll keep on principle because I love the models
the RG, not so sure
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 19:45
@/all if someone could merge please
#2831
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 11 2018 19:46
:+1:
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 19:47
and if someone would like to release that later tonight that would be great
if I reach three codexes maintained (four if you count ynnari) do I win a prize of being able to merge my own PRs? :P
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 11 2018 19:49
was just thinking we should look into that ^^
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 19:49
I'm being silly. but DE was a mess to do
I think the end result was better than I could have expected
Got rave reviews from the two local DE guys because it actively prevents them from accidentally breaking obsessions
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 11 2018 19:50
always good to hear your work being appreciated :D
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 19:51
oh, and I guess I should say something about it for anyone else touching the DE cat in the future: Don't touch/select the weapon targets for the show/hide on the Artefacts of cruelty
they're specific UnID targets that will clear if the conditional is selected
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Apr 11 2018 19:51
lmao. naughty naughty
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 19:51
it was the only way to make it work
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 19:51
Oh god that bug
I’m quite familiar with it from 30k
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 19:52
LOL
well, that's why the artefacts work so well, so just don't touch it without taking a picture first :P
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 19:53
It’s one of the many improvements I wanted to make over there - but got shouted down because “can’t have 3 refactorings in a year” when the first 2 were half-assed to begin with
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 19:53
also I discovered courtesy of the haemonculus, that if you have a linked item, and then an SSEG as part of an SEG, and make the link the default, it cannot be unselected
which is why the Haem deviates from the standard and has a second "splinter pistol" entry static instead of a link
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 19:54
I actually just did a bunch of improvements on the Militia cat in 30k last night; so many instances of basic wargear not being listed and missing profiles
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 19:55
@/all suggestion: expand the wiki pages here to include one for each cat, so that maintainers can list quirks and workarounds in the event someone else takes over maintenance at a later date?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 19:55
But yeah like 3/4 of the Praetor/Cent logic in the astartes cat in 30k is the manually added UDID that if you reselect it, it breaks
That’s actually not a bad idea - solves a standardization discussion @OftKilted and I were having in the AoS repo
The horde discount sometimes doesn’t divide nicely across the number of models in the unit making simple decrements... difficult
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 19:59
HH cats were a nightmare last time I looked into them
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:00
So they were using a logic intensive method to doing point for everything instead of using simple method standard
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:00
@WindstormSCR Not a terrible idea for notation on cat files.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:00
@Kohato yeah and Austin was pissed for months after your script backfired
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:01
Also talk to amis about merge/commit to master rights. Just don't make conflicts :p
My script?
Or the logic for the legion units
I never touched direct XML editing.
nor would I on the spaghetti piece that is those cats.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:02
I thought you ran a script that added Legiones Astartes to everything
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:02
noooo. I said we should do that
as a way to validate things
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:02
Ah kk
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:02
Those cat files made old SM look small.
I'd never want to run scripts to replace things in xml in those.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:02
Well somehow LA got added onto a bunch of things that didn’t have LA
Yeah there’s a known bug that iOS devices older the 6’s just will not load astartes
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:03
"Bug"
The bug is get a new phone.
lol
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:03
It’s a memory issue
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:04
Yea, nothing to be done about it really
Other than pare down what you can
sub-forces with BS2.0 might help that out
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:04
All the other cats load fine.
It’s just astartes is massive
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:04
but it'd mean gutting and re-doing astartes from ground up
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:04
Yup
Which I’ve been shouted down on
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:04
Which, unless it's vastly changed since I visited ... would not be bad.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:05
So shrug nope if anything it’s an even better idea now
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:05
Yea that thinking is idiotic. Why stop one more refactor if it fixes things.
Whoops, we've done too many, lets leave it broken
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:06
I mean look at AoS
Yes, currently it’s in pre-GHB status
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:06
Yup. Hammer at it til it works.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:06
But if you pull from master it’s 90% there now
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:07
Yea, they've been doing some hard work on that repo
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:07
They’re just holding off on releasing piecemeal
But oh no, letting the bugreps idle for a few weeks or a month or 2 to get 1 cat RIGHT is bad
Even though it seems like half the 30k community with iOS has gone to Quartermaster anyway
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:09
Hey, if it's broke and nobody is allowed to fix it, I don't blame them
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:09
for 30k I handwrite my lists, mostly because of the notes I want with each unit anyway
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:09
Been playing legion lately and now I'm wanting to make unit and upgrade cards for my lists to bring to games.
Far easier than consulting my tiny phone
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:10
I PR'd a small update to codeowners
I have a few 3x5s with unit standard loadouts on them
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:11
for necrons it'd be simple. And I could send them to drivethrucards to be printed nice .
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:12
It pretty much seems like the groupthink of the 30k community is if you play 30k and have an iDevice you use QM
If you don’t have an iDevice you grin and bear it
Which is really bad for BS in general
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:13
hmmm
how much of a shitflip you think if I just spent a week or three redoing it from the ground up and submitted a PR :P
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:13
Luckily, we over in 40k have a better grasp on our userbase :p
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:14
@WindstormSCR man DO IT!
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:14
See, that's a 3rd refactor
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:14
Like seriously prove him wrong
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:14
As we've discussed. in 30k, 3rd time is not the charm.
But yes - go for it.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:14
@Kohato agreed
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:14
Make that shit pretty, efficient, and working.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:14
@acebaur ready for the headache that deathwatch will be?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:15
What headache
No more imperium soup :p
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:15
all the mixed DW units
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:15
Deathwatch is they're own strong independant faction.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:15
@WindstormSCR all I have to say is good luck with Praetor/Cebturions
Centurions*
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:16
@alphalas easy, just use the working categories and make each cent a different selection with a centurion flag
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:16
Iirc the one time zopha was trying to fix it it was a couple hundred thousand lines of logic
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:16
yeah, that'
s why you don't do it in one unit
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:17
@WindstormSCR and all the dependencies with Command Squads and mobility options, etc
Good luck lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:17
@alphalas its actually really similar to the relic problem in 40k
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:18
If you can make it work I’m copying that shit for the 8e repo lol
Speaking of...
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 11 2018 20:21
@alphalas Having an expanded Wiki page addressing quirks in a catalog implementation?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:21
@/all if anyone wants to help write a file for a narrative play based setting where hot marine-on-marine action is good and marines in general aren’t bad, I’m recruiting for help on fleshing out a repo for the 30k 8e fandex
@OftKilted yeah so that things like grots, brims, etc can be the exception and called out as such for points logic
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:25
@alphalas basically, create a "Master of the Legion" SSE, and link it where needed but create different entries for the different HQ subtypes, do the same for "Consul" and "Centurion"
you can now validate on those, but don't need a morass of show/hide logic in a single 'do it all' entry
example a RoW that requires a "Consul type X" can just specify the unit, not some arcane sub-selection
equally, you can set a limit ot "max X in force" on consul
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:30
Lol @WindstormSCR if you can do it and make it work, PR that shit hard lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:31
I'll poke at the 8e set then if I get a chance
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:31
I know I’ve been itching to fix the basic squads; the way they implemented them bothers me to no end lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:31
but really the problem is you need to overhaul everything that touches it
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:32
Yeah for 7e astartes needs a complete overhaul
Like I just got Militia to a point I’m happy with
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:32
I might be able to make 8e work easy like that, but I've no idea whats done and what isn't
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:33
Collectivized everything that I could and made wargear display on models like it should, not in some separate bucket
@WindstormSCR tbh nothing at all Praetor/cent iirc
8e 30k is basically a blank slate
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:34
well
I don't think I'll have much time this week
but
if the FAQ doesn't drop this weekend, I'll poke the 8e 30k instead
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:35
Oh shit I still need to update the GST UDID so it doesn’t keep pulling the 40k GST
Keep forgetting to do that
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:35
hahaa
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:35
might as well update the GST to current while you're at it
@alphalas here's the deal I'll make you: I'll work on selection logic and stuff but I'm not doing mass rules copy/paste :P
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:35
Yeah I’ll probably just replace the whole file then update the UDID
Deal lol
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 11 2018 20:36
@alphalas What’s the relic problem in 40k?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:36
I can handle doing profiles and making shit look pretty lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:36
variable relic number allowance based on stratagem and factional warlord
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:36
Validation on multi-sub faction choices.
Relic number allowance is easy I think
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:36
^what they said lol
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:37
Just make a relic category, assign it to relic SE, and max 1 <Relic> in roster
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 11 2018 20:37
@WindstormSCR Well ... allowance is easy, we do that in AoS
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:37
or force
or w/e
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:37
categories break
SSE works
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Apr 11 2018 20:38
In 30k the issue was if Praetor has jump pack, command squad can only be on foot or have packs, not have bikes or jetbikes
But that sort of complex logic never seemed to work correctly pre-categories
So the 30k file is basically written in BS2.0.0 format with categories kinda bodged in
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:39
Haha yea. Shared Entries with nothing in them
to replace categories
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 11 2018 20:41
And the jump pack is a relic?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:42
no, the problem is similar to some relic issues
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:43
It's not validating within 1 unit. It's validating across multiple units based on the choices of 1.
Unit A has jump pack. so now you need logic to limit unit b's choices based on unit A, but only if unit A is both present and has that jump pack
It's workable in BS, sure. But in a file the size of astartes ...
you get stingy on lines.
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 11 2018 20:45
Not specifically an issue we have in the AoS files.
(File size)
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:47
Astartes getting to be just shy of 6mb
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Apr 11 2018 20:49
Is this jump pack a relic kind of thing?
Or are we with two different issues?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:49
you're confusing relic as an example with the actual issue
character gets JP equipment, the squad can only use JP equipment
@Kohato the funny thing is you actually come out with less total lines just making "terminator command squad" "Jump command squad" etc
and then using SSEG links for weapons wherever possible
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Apr 11 2018 20:51
Yea, you probably would in the end.
and just hide the relevant units
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Apr 11 2018 20:52
make each legion a Sub of astartes instead of part of it, throw the relevant unique units or major changes in there
which cuts linecount considerably for a single file
make things like the legion rules a simple end of roster entry if you have the force, instead of not