These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

12th
May 2018
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 10:14
Yeah, it is stupid because you lose objective secured, at least
As well as any "trait"
People are strange
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
May 12 2018 10:48
It's just the way GW likes to frame things. They say, sure, do whatever you want, but if you follow these rules you'll be rewarded with extra options.
Apparently they don't like framing stuff in a negative way, at least not directly.
Picked that up from a discussion below a Moarhammer vid on Youtube. Some guy there used to work for GW and that's the way they like to present rules. As bonuses, not handicaps.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 12 2018 11:47
I mean, it's a good practice
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 12:09
commited some changes to the DW branch, don't merge yet, still working on it
tekton
@tekton
May 12 2018 16:03
@Owlsbane it's like giving rested xp in a video game instead of a negative when you've been playing too long
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 17:46
Omg plastic sisters look awesome
Hopefully you can see the link
Otherwise it was on the warhammer fest live stream
The full blog
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
May 12 2018 18:18
Hey
A necron Knight
Shame it’s fw :/
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 20:08
I'm a bit surprised, where are our friendly SoB players...?? I was expecting the chat to be awash with exclamations of how glorious the new models look... and yet... nothing
yeah, @Kohato we'll have to see how the rules look
who knows, it might be hardcore like the Telemon
also, @WindstormSCR and @acebaur what's the skinny with Deathwatch??
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 20:15
#3053 those pesky users just can't wait for the new Deathwatch goodies!!
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 20:19
I'm working on it
should be done by the end of the weekend
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 20:19
fabulous
I know you're working on it, but I just pulled the Deathwatch branch and Veterans REQUIRE a selection when added to the list... This means they're not i.a.w the guidelines which state a unit should come with standard wargear and not produce validation errors when added to a list.
but you're working on it so I'm sure you'll get that sorted sharpish :smile: :+1:
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 20:22
they were next on my list of things to adjust
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 20:22
:kiss:
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 20:22
so things have to have a standard wargear?
what about when that gear is in a list they have access to?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 20:23
well, I think all you need to do is make the equipment list default to Bolter as standard
the list that is called "Or one weapon can be chosen from this list"
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 20:26
so like Watch captain
comes with a BP, MC Bolter, and chainsword
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 20:26
yeah, it should be possible to "throw a list together" that is valid... i.e. I should select a squad of veterans and they all come with a Boltgun as standard (as equipped in the Datasheet)
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 20:27
Chainsword is part of the DW equipment list
so how do I make the captain's default weapons be MC bolter and chainsword
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 20:28
yeah, I mean, there are precedents in other CAT's that it is not totally watertight, particularly on Characters where people change wargear "every time"
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 20:28
should I add a second chainsword option in there to have it be default?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
May 12 2018 20:29
I'm
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 20:29
well... ideally no, because that is horrible for UX
he could have a different wargear list
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 20:29
I want to be consistent, but also don't want to have redundant things and extra unnecessary work
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
May 12 2018 20:30
@acebaur if you want to leave vets for when I get home, I can fix them
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 20:30
that's ok, I got it
thanks though
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 20:37
so whats the resolution units like the Watch Captain? Am I adding in redundant entries for things like Chainswords or no?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 20:38
yeah, so, from my point of view, I think it would be acceptable for him to still ask for one extra selection from the list
so, he should have a separate MC Boltgun entry (not on the list)
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 20:38
which he has
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 20:39
sugar...
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 20:39
however when it's selected as default and you open him in roster it gives him two for some reason
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 20:39
I don't know how to manage the bolt pistol and chainsword cleanly
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 20:39
the BP stays regardless he can't trade it
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 20:40
oh yeah, how odd
so, he can have a fixed BP
directly attached to his profile
and then the user will have to select the Chainsword
in my opinion that is fine, because otherwise you'd have to duplicate the equipment list
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 20:42
and the MC bolter, because it's auto selecting the MC bolter twice
I think because the minimum weapons for him is 2
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 20:42
well it shouldn't do that
and that is probably the way
I'd take the MC Bolter one level up
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 20:43
but he can trade it with the chainsword for two items from the DW equipment list
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 20:43
yeah, so... hmmm...
can you make it min/max one, and then a modifier that if there are two selections in the DW Equip list the constraints change to min/max 0?
although, that will error when someone JUST wants to take a Shotgun (for example), and deliberately NOT a chainsword - even though it is free
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 20:46
Yeah
Plus people are going have to select at least one weapon anyway
And I'd imagine that most people would customize their HQ at least a bit
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 20:48
yeah, like I said, there is some leeway, and some precedent that characters can be treated differently for exactly that reason
but squads should be correct by default :-)
:smile:
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 21:06
question
so the Index entry is called "Deathwatch Kill Team"
the new entry is called "Veterans"
because we have the designers commentary does that mean we have to include both even though they are essentially the same thing?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
May 12 2018 21:11
@acebaur, look at Chaos selection lists for examples of making items default in selection lists. Basically you set them to min 1, then have a modifier with no conditions to set them to min 0.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 21:13
well.... are they the same thing, or are they "essentially" the same thing??
if they're exactly the same, happy days
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 21:13
I'm comparing them now
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 21:13
if there are options in the codex that weren't in the index (or vice versa) then you'll need to include them
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 21:14
the names are different
they dropped the "Deathwatch" moniker
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 21:18
yeah, that's fine then
just have one
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 21:18
everything else is the same
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 21:18
:+1:
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 21:19
change the names?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 21:19
stick with what is on the datasheet in the Codex
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 21:19
:+1:
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 21:24
@Mad-Spy what about a list within a list, for example the "or may choose one" list has the boltgun selected as default and is linked to the DW equipment list, but doesn't select boltgun when you open the roster
I can just add a boltun to their profile as well which is probably simpler
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 21:29
simpler, yes, but will look horrible
Alex Baur
@acebaur
May 12 2018 21:35
Why would it look horrible?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
May 12 2018 21:44
because you have a boltgun checkbox, and then a boltgun choice in the list
which is unpleasant (in my opinion)
but much easier to implement in some circumstances
either way, I've got a busy day tomorrow so I'm off to bed :smile:
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
May 12 2018 22:05
@acebaur, that's what the min1, set min1 to 0 does. You can even have multiple "default" selections in a list using that. Like I said check out Chaos weapon lists for examples.
I won't have time tonight, but I can look at it tomorrow if you want.