These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

4th
Jun 2018
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 04 2018 00:04
I swear it's just to keep folks from magnetizing
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 04 2018 00:07
hmmm

"This came up and I'd love to hear some thoughts.

Harlequin Stratagem Skystride let's a unit consolidate 6" towards their transport (with the option to embark, but that's not necessary) instead of towards the closest enemy.

Consolidate happens in the Fight phase Step 6.

  1. Choose Unit
  2. Pile In
  3. Choose Target
  4. Choose Weapons
  5. Resolve Attacks
    6 Consolidate.

Thus the question, would this strat allow you to "dodge out", "quit" or "exit" a fight before another unit (including the one you were fighting) gets picked for the fight sequence.

In other words, a Harlequin unit moves up board, their trusty transport positioned in a direction away from the enemy. Harlequins charge .. say .. some Berzerkers, do the fight sequence and, in step 6, activate the Skystrider Stratagem to move 6" away from the Berzerkers and out of close combat (and possibly into the transport) before the Zerkers are chosen as a unit to attack? "

not my post but I thought @FarseerVeraenthis might like to chew on it along with the rules people here
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 04 2018 01:13
I do believe it does let you bounce out before getting return swings
That's effin' powerful right there
tekton
@tekton
Jun 04 2018 03:09
Ya know, I’ve seen most people play is as consolidation is another phase, hadn’t really thought about it in awhile
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 03:56
I thought you could only consolidate if the enemy had died
Pile in otherwise
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 04 2018 05:05
There is no "pile in" anymore. Only consolidate.
Sorry, I mis-spoke.
You pile in in step 2, you consolidate in step 6 -- the only difference is when they happen. Also, both are optional ("you may move...")
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
Jun 04 2018 07:10
Doesn't sound too bad. Max number of troops in a unit is 6, if you take 5 plus a Troupe Master then he won't be able to take advantage of the Stratagem. Only once per turn in matched. If they consolidate away they'll be shot and/or charged themselves the next turn.
Meant max# in a transport
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
Jun 04 2018 07:16
So you gain the ability to prevent a return round of close combat, but give up the chance to tie up a unit and prevent it from shooting and such.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 04 2018 08:11

and out of close combat (and possibly into the transport)

Pretty sure it's black on white somewhere you can only embark/disembark in Move phase.

Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
Jun 04 2018 08:26
No, the stratagem specifically allows this, even if you already disembarked in this phase.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 04 2018 08:35
Oooh. That's pretty nice.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 09:08
so they can consolidate backwards denying the enemy attacks and have the choice to embark as well ... that's pretty damn hawt
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
Jun 04 2018 09:25
You don't even have to have a transport near, it can be on the other side of the board and if it is the closest one they can still consolidate towards it.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 04 2018 10:14
....ohfuck.jpg
Privateer is releasing a new theme for khador that is 100% me
All Man-O-Wars, all the time
RIGHT as I was finally forgetting about wanting to play that game -.-
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 10:29

need your help guys, know there was discussion recently on demons in astartes detachments and how useful it is.

But is there a way someone (A friend) could make a <Nurgle> keyword detach of nurglings and other Codex DG units?

Admittedly losing out on the DG benefits

Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 04 2018 10:30
I don’t see why not
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 10:31
add a child force of daemons and select Nurgle as their Allegiance
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 10:32
@GenWilhelm @alphalas cheers
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 10:41
so I tried taking a DG Batallion and a Daemon child outrider .. .but I can't get foetid bloatdrones into the outrider
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 10:42
bloatdrones are DG?
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 10:42
yup
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 10:43
so you need another force - a DG outrider that is a child to the Daemon outrider
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 10:43
aaah
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 10:49
works perfect thanks Gen
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 10:50
:+1:
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 04 2018 11:11
Yeah, that Skystride stratagem is pretty sneaky, but as mentioned, you'll only be 6" away, which means you really need to re-embark the transport to avoid counter assault or being shot to death...
having said that, it is useful if you do manage to wipe out the opposing unit, because it keeps you safe (as safe as being embarked on a transport is anyway) from being stuck in the open
I don't think it is a super powerful game-breaking stratagem, but it sure is sneaky :smile:
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
Jun 04 2018 11:15
Yeah, but no reroll buffs from characters unless you're okay with them being stranded afterwards.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 11:20
it stops your opponent from fighting that turn, but also means they dont have to fall back, so its only particularly potent against melee units that dont have much shooting to speak of
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 11:33
get out of jail free card vs berzerkers that you charged, and not the other way around ... cause those will pursue you twice
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 04 2018 11:34
Yeah, it's definitely situational, but aren't all the stratagem to a certain extent? Note that you could use it in your opponents turn too
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 11:34
We hates them precious !! nasty filthy zerkers
yeah .. 2CP intervene ... fight and run away
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 04 2018 11:35
How would the bezerkers pursue twice?
Once the stratagem drops they're out of combat and cannot be chosen to fight... (assuming it's a one to one unit match up)
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 11:38
unless the zerkers charged was what I meant, zerkers charge and are a second unit to do so, so you can intervene for example..
so you interven and fall back 6 inches, but the zerkers when they activate can fight once (pile in 3, consolidate 3) can't attack ... then get their second activation and are now within an inch and murder you in the face with rusty chains
so your only escape is to have the transport close to hand to emabark into
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 04 2018 11:49
hmmm... I don't know the exact wording for the bezerkers second attack, but they couldn't be activated a second time because they wouldn't be within 1" of anyone
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 11:50
they charged
and as per the FAQ (which I had read at me yesterday when my jaw hit the floor) they get to activate as chargers both times before other attackers
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 11:51
yeah, the wording is they "can be chosen to fight twice in each fight phase, instead of only once"
so if they charged, you have to pick them twice during the "fights first" section
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 11:52
yup, stinky horrible world eaters
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 04 2018 11:52
yeah, but the point is, if you stratagem your harlies out, they are not an elgible unit to be activated for the second fight phase
oh right
yes, that would be a little different
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 11:53
@FarseerVeraenthis they are ... the selection criteria is ... charged OR were within 1" at the start of the fight phase
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 11:53
yeah, charging units always activate, even if there's noone within 1"
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 11:54
so if they charged at something that fell back in such a way they can hunt them down for the second activation
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 04 2018 11:55
something has gone a little awry here
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 11:55
but ... for 99% of the rest of the armies ... that stratagem is great ... just don't try and outrun charging berzerkers unless you can get on board a transport
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 04 2018 11:57
if a unit of Bezerkers charge the Harlequins, fight once, then the Harlequins "Counter Offensive" (interrupts order), fight and jump out. The bezerkers are... oh, they charged... yeah, be careful to shoot the hitty stuff and hit the shooty stuff
(you're both correct of course, it just took me a little while to work it through in my head)
that's quite crazy actually, if two units of any kind charge a single enemy unit, and the first wipes out the enemy unit, the second charging unit effectively gets a "free" move towards the enemy
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 12:00
correct ... free 6" catapult move to the nearest target
put a roadbump in front of Genestealers and they spend a couple CP to catapult up to 20" forwards !! ... I've not had it work yet ... but it's in there
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
Jun 04 2018 12:02
Completely not related to the current discussion, but how much does the cheapest cp-generator for the imperium cost?
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 12:03
about 100 points for a guard detach with Kurovs aquila and things
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 12:05
2x30 + 3x40
180pts for 5CP
Owlsbane
@Owlsbane
Jun 04 2018 12:16
Thanks! Not lazy, just don't have any codices handy.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 04 2018 13:08
wow! those are some Cheep CP's
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 13:11
there's a reason everyone soups in the emperor's finest :smile:
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 13:12
just add custard
Salt to taste
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 04 2018 13:31
*Cheap
its not a bird
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 13:52
Hello everyone
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 04 2018 13:52
huehuehue
well... that picture takes longer to upload than expected...
aaaaawkwaaaaard
cough
rustle
uhm....
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 04 2018 13:58
Mommy, Daddy, EMPEROR.jpg
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 13:59
Hi, @Tigerwraith!
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 14:00
Hello @GenWilhelm thanks for responding and the tips.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 14:03
anytime :smile:
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 14:05
I've been a long time user of Battlescribe, and I've taught myself how to do a few things by looking at the other game system data files, but you can only mimic so much when the game system does something totally different from the others.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 04 2018 14:06
Just ask away, half this chat is us crudposting about 40k models and our games anyway, so "how do I do X" questions for the editor won't derail the chat much :D
and we've run into so many quirks between GW foolishness, HH craziness, and mobile vs desktop that we should be able to help
the biggest thing I'll say is that nailing down a good structure for your game system at the start will help you avoid a lot of issues
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 04 2018 14:10
@WindstormSCR cheep cheep - they are little birds playing with the big boys in Imperial Soup
maybe
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 14:10
Thank you, and I'll apologize now for bugging yall too much as from what @GenWilhelm has said I'm going to have to create a lot of profiles
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 04 2018 14:11
(does the small CP Gen detachment even "DO" much on the battlefield??)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 04 2018 14:11
the best example for wound tracks is the larger 40k vehicles
@FarseerVeraenthis deepstrike screens, and objective holding
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 14:11
Gen. You have a name?!
Le Gasp!
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 14:11
they'd be transposed versions of what we use, yeah
and yeah, i felt weird using people's irl name while hiding behind an alias :smile:
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 14:12
lol
How do you know this is my name
perhaps I just chose the truckiest of trucker names
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 14:12
oh, i thought they were your titles
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 14:13
I did forget to add Duke at the start.
Duke of Earl, Bishop, esquire
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 04 2018 14:13
my RL name was lost in ages before you were even born... ancients transcripts speak of foreign tongues long lost before time. Your voice organs wouldn't even be able to pronounce the first 2 syllables without interdicting the blood flow to your tongue.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 14:14
So ... Bill, from accounting?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jun 04 2018 14:14
They call me... Tim, the Enchanter.
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 14:14
If it was just 2 or 3 stats that got worse as the unit was damaged, I think I could do it, since the 40k files have this now. but in CAV its all the unit and weapon stats
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 14:15
huh, Git is being bought by M$
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 14:15
well not all of the weapon stats, as range stays the same, just the weapon loses effectiveness.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 04 2018 14:15
really what you need is a profile that lists its headers as "0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9"
then name each profile "Move" etc
and fill in the slots
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 14:16
yeah, 0-9 would be the characteristics of the profile
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 14:21
hmm ok, so I should probably do it from 0 to 12 as 12 is the highest damage tract but not every unit in CAV goes up to 12, just the really big and mean CAVs
and I can make it to where the Archer CAV only has 0-9 correct?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 04 2018 14:22
just leave unused slots blank
it'll still show 0-12
but any unused slots just won't have anything there
think of it like an excel table
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 14:23
which isnt a problem really
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 04 2018 14:23
characteristics are your headers
profile names are your row titles
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 14:24
ok, when I get to that part i'll remember that.
so far ive only up to Force Entries, and now im creating Category Entries for the different unit types in the Force Entries
@Thairne
we like a little Monty Python
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 14:35
lol
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 14:39
so, i'm thinking castellen for my dominus, and get the valliant sprues later
Think i'll get more use out of a walking shadowsword
though that harpoon is tasty
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 14:40
oh the new warlord like knight
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 14:41
aye, gonna go to my comic shop and have him order one of the two + cards.
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 14:43
I've lost interest in playing my Death Guard with the group I was playing with. They want to do a narrative game setting but use match play rules and points. I finally got frustrated and gave up on the group.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 14:43
I enjoy using Open War cards with points/rules for matched play
as a semi-narrative thing
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 14:45
maybe if they did something like that, but their thinking was match play points made the game more balanced, I couldnt convince them that match play points werent as balanced as they thought, and was how GW was getting people to buy models.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 04 2018 14:46
it depends on the army
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 14:47
a couple in the group were upset that some armies couldnt be auto win just because you deployed them
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 04 2018 14:47
power level works fine for some, but units with heavy customization options (like deathwatch) get a massive spike in effectiveness when they don't have to pay for the upgrades
like the 15 power veteran squad I was fielding in our local escalation games that would have cost 360 points to actually field in matched
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 14:48
TBF, points do keep things like summoning in check
And yea, PL favors marine armies really, anything with a lot of upgrades.
Necrons for example, are shit on for PL vs other armies
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 14:50
it was just odd, they wanted a narrative setting, but restrict it to competitive play limits, and when their armies couldnt do as they expected them to do, they would change how the setting work... just got too confusing for me to keep up with and considering that Chaos got the short end of the stick, i've decided to wait till all the codexes are out, and see how things go once all the revisions settle down
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 14:51
not long now, pending how late 2019 sisters are
Orks, Wolves, GSC, Imperial Agents, and Sisters is all that's convievably left, without new armies entirely
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 14:51
no sister players in the area here so, should be good to go
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 14:52
sisters are getting beta rules in CA 2018 apparently, so they'll be Q2 if we're lucky
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 14:52
Oh yea? That'll be nice
little preview will be good
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 14:55
and yeah, in my experience people who are overly concerned about balance care more about winning and losing than they do about actually playing the game
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 14:59
that was the vibe I got from this one player, things between us finally got to the tipping point for me, and I quit playing with the group. It wasnt my group so I couldnt ask him to leave, and it did seem I was the only one to take issue with him, so I removed myself and decided to play elsewhere.
CrusherJoe @CrusherJoe shudders
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 04 2018 15:04
PL
CrusherJoe @CrusherJoe goes "Erk."
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 15:04
Is fine for casual imprompteu games.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 04 2018 15:06
my local group actually thanked me for running the escalation campaign as narrative/PL
it broke a few of them out of the "gotta be matched to be fun" pidgeonhole
but then the whole point of it was silly fun
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 15:07
I love non matched missions
I keep a bunch from AOS/old 40k in a binder
they're suprisingly interchangable
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 15:08
the BRB narrative missions can be a little one sided ... and you draw the open war card that negates Invulns as Harlies or something, you're gonna have abad day
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 15:09
I usually err on fun for those
in that case i'd say reduce invuln save by 1
or something
or re-roll successful saves
and then give the disadvantaged player one of the boon cards
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jun 04 2018 15:10
good play
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 04 2018 15:10
I kinda wanna try Cities of Death
...kinda
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 15:11
aye, and thats what I was hoping for, but when the Ad Mech player put his HQ next to my Blightspawn, and got the raw end of a weapon that rolls 2d6 for Str, I got 4 hits on him at Str 12 with -3 AP and 3 damage each, it melted his HQ and he couldnt believe that a 75pt char could do something like that
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 15:12
I hate oblits
with a bloody passion
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 04 2018 15:13
Heh
I helped a friend make a chaos list with many, many oblits
We called it
(wait for it)
"2 Oblit, 2 Oblit 2 Quit."
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 15:13
lol
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 15:14
You know how I deal with oblits though?
T-Vault.
On top of them
Shoot it now bitch.
It will blow up, I will use CP to ensure it
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 04 2018 15:14
I having issues coming up with names for the summer GT list
Right now I'm calling it "Banana Derpstar/Dubstep Scions"
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 15:15
whats the list? from that name im guessing plasma stormies and hammock captains
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 15:16
You should go for a Generic Bananna Biker list
but show up with leather biker gear
with a bananna sewn on the back as the gang patch
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 04 2018 15:20
Banana Derpstar with Scions.PNG
Hmmmm
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 15:20
Ok in Force Entries, CAV has Primary Squads, and Secondary, you can take any number of Primary Squads, but you can only take a Secondary Squad if you have a Primary.
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 04 2018 15:20
Have any of y'all had an issue with editing the Roster Name?
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 15:21
Primary Squads are Attack, Inf, Mech Inf, and Specialist
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 04 2018 15:21
I can change ONE character, then the box loses focus and I have to select it again
...and that one character is more accurately ONE keystroke
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 15:21
Secondary Squads are Fire Support, Flight, Mortar, Recon, and Transport
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 15:21
yes. i was trying to remember where i found that bug when Jon was asking the other day
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 04 2018 15:22
Letter-key, lose focus. Space bar, lose focus. Delete key, lose focus.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 15:22
i ended up typing it in notepad and copy-pasting it in
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 04 2018 15:22
It's really super annoying AF
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 15:22
yeah, should probably open an issue for it on the bscribe repo
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 04 2018 15:23
Or uservoice...that seems to be Jon's preferred method for raising issues
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 15:24
and an Attack Squad can be made up of 4 to 6 CAVs or Vehicles with 75% of the models having the task of Attack
err never mind me, I think I can figure it out...
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 04 2018 15:29
@Tigerwraith you can use categories
things can have multiple categories, but only the ones listed under a force will actually show up as selections
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 04 2018 15:30
Raised issue on BScribe repo here and on uservoice
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 15:30
yea I think just figured out I have to revamp my Force Entries entries
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 04 2018 15:30
example we have force: battaltion that lists HQ/Troop/Etc
but categories like Character that can be validated on that don't show up
so make a Primary category, and a Secondary category
and then just conditionals on the secondary
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 15:32
I was going to do a force entry for each squad type, but I need to see my Primary and Secondary like the Detachments for 40k
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 15:53
CAVSO1.PNG
ok here is what I have so far,
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 15:55
Primary and Secondary are the 2 main selections
Thanks @amis92
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 04 2018 15:57
Also, you're admin which means you can add other collaborators.
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 15:57
cool, there is another person that wanted to help, so this will make it easier
and more learning to do
thanks
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Jun 04 2018 16:02
@CrusherJoe yes, I have that exact issue with renaming Rosters on my PC too - I'm glad its not just me!!
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jun 04 2018 16:15
It's kinda maddening LOL
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 16:20
Right now im trying to compare how some elements from CAV are like in 40k, in the game file I want to get the common elements to all the forces a good base line, as Im hoping that if I do that, when I do the different factions things should go smoother for me
one issue that I'm having is 40k just has 2 levels for Force Org. Detachments then your Force Tasks, HQ, Troop and those are pretty much defined
in CAV you have Primary and Secondary squads, for every primary squad you can have a secondary squad. There are 4 Primary Squads, and 5 Secondary Squads.
One of the squads for Primary is Attack, it can have 4-6 CAV and/or Vehicles in it. 75% of the units have to have the unit task of Attack. So if I take 4 units, 3 of the 4 have to be Attack units, and the other 1 can be a Recon or Fire Support unit
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 16:27
what im at a lost for atm is do have to set constraints for the Attack unit, of min 4 and max 6 then the attack task also to min 4 and max 6, recon i can set max 1 and fire support i can set max 1 and that should do it
correct?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 17:06
yeah, that sounds about right. you'll still have to do some validation checks to make sure at least 75% is Attack
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 17:39
kind of easy with a max of 6, its only 1 non attack unit, because 4 out of 6 isnt 75% its 66, while 5 out of 6 is 83
Whats the differance between Parent, Roster, Force, and Primary Catagory
Or let me make a guess that Parent is the lowest element, Roster is the entire Roster or Army, and Force is each force that is added to the roster, for example in 40k its each detachment
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 17:47
parent is the same level of the condition/constraint, and yeah you got the other two (but we sometimes use multiple forces for a single detachment)
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 17:50
Well this makes me relook at the Force Entries then
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 17:50
i was scratching my head a little at the screenshot you posted :P
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 17:50
oh, why
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 17:51
you've got like nested forces and stuff going 3 levels deep
that's going to be a UX nightmare
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 17:52
I was about to make it 4
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 04 2018 17:56
Can I selfishly ask for activity and support on https://www.facebook.com/groups/2206945593/permalink/10160536264810594/ ? I'd really like to get some more people working on wham.
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:03
hmm that post was removed
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 04 2018 18:07
And I have no idea what to do with it. There are 10+ admins.
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:07
have you tried on the reddit groups?
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 04 2018 18:08
No, I don't think so.
Which ones do you suggest?
that one is very tolerant, its not ruled with an Iron fist like r/Warhammer
What is WHAM btw, ive never heard of it
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 04 2018 18:15
It's a command line tool/C# library I'm building - it manages datafiles that BattleScribe uses. It'll support us, data authors, and enhance our experience publishing and assist in QA.
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:19
sounds cool, I will have to admit its been a long time since ive done any codding, I did Basic back when I first started with a Commodore Vic 20, then I got into html and some java/python but ive forgotten most of what I taught myself
i'm having to get back into it because of the position im in at work now, but what I do is mostly HL7 related and the vendors do most of the codding
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:25
Let me run this by you
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:26
Tiger, /r/wh has gotten better btw
JediDouchCanoe is gone
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:27
instead of picking primary or secondary could I have it to where you pick the type of squad you want but if you pick a secondary with out having a primary squad in the roster you get an error message?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:28
Yes.
Max in Roster = 0
Increment Max in roster by 1 per X
Set a primary category as "Secondary Unit"
and you can have it be it's own category in a root entry
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:29
so I can do this the original way I thought about doing it
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:30
Aye sir
Take it from our ... extensive ... repo of closed issues, don't dig yourself into UX nightmares.
Keep things simple and functional
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:31
Im sure when 8th came out, and added detachments you all were like what the hell GW
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:31
Percentage is a bit harder to do, but it can be done with some tricky logic.
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:32
well with the max unit size of 6 its simple
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:32
We had discussions with Jon when 8th was announced and things started being known as to what we needed BS to be able to do
he delivered pretty well after some hiccoughs in the beginning of the update.
Can you have a min unit size of 3?
2 attack, 1 special?
or since that's only 66% it doesn't work.
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:33
no min unit size is 4
min 4 max 6
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:33
So yea, Max = 0, Increment Max by 1 if > 4 in unit
Or Set max to 1 if > 4 in unit
either works.
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:34
at least for the units in a squad
attack unit is 4 to 6 with 75% having the attack task,
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:34
There's very little we've found BS can't work for in 40k. Things need funky workarounds sometimes, but it can work
Cat Inheritance being one of the things that is outright no (for now)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 04 2018 18:36
Jon did say it is coming
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:36
(for now)
:D
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 04 2018 18:36
And that he’s almost got it alpha ready for us lol
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:37
It'll be an interesting change
It'll help 30k immensely
Imperium FW a good deal as well for 40k
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 04 2018 18:38
Indeed
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:38
Ynnari too, other xenos not so much
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 04 2018 18:38
Chaos FW too
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:38
but they've never been that big of issue
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:38
is that something thats needed so you can keep the FW units in their own catalog, but not need a seperate detachment to put them on the roster?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:38
I'm also now dissapointed
I read the GW post about Knight Hekatur's kit being able to build all the questoris variants.
They mean basic Knights >_<
I forgot they renamed basic knights to Questoris and they're not talking about plastic versions of a Magera
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 04 2018 18:39
Eh we’ve seen enough complaints about cat FWAA and FWHA to say it’s a minor issue
Oh yeah that lol
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:40
Aye, pretty much tiger.
It'll let us keep a FW cat file
and load on demand
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:40
CAVSO2.PNG
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 04 2018 18:40
The stryx and the magera
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:40
I was so hoping magera and stryx were getting plastic kits
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:40
so does that look better and less of a nightmare then
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:40
and was fully ready to buy that box
then I realized regular knights are now Questoris
What is your 2nd level "Attack"?
Is it the same Category?
If so that might cause ... issues
and 3rd level for that matter
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:42
I will have to say thats the whole reason why I do know about the BS data files, I didnt like having to get a seperate detachment to add FW units to my Death Guard, I liked how it was for the 7th ed data file
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:42
IE: You assign a root entry with the Attack primary category, and it would show up on all 3 levels of your force.
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:43
ok I was mimicing how yall did things in 40k
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:43
did you ever try to work with 7th Ed SM?
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:43
nope didnt mess with the files till 8th
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:43
I maintained that beast in the tail end of 7th. That was an ugly and slow piece of shit
As nice as it is all being in 1 cat, older mobile devices die
with large files.
Hence our 8th ed solution of child detachments
I don't think we have 3 deep force org charts in our GST ...
do we?
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:44
ahh, I was so used to making my rosters on my PC and only using mobile to display it
40kdf.PNG
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:46
Ohhh shit that's right
that's what we had to do in order to allow child detachments
Ok, so you should be able to cut out the duplicate 2nd level
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:46
lol ok
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:46
We did that so that you could add a patrol detachment of a different cat
to the parent patrol
and keep min/max in that force
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:47
I figured there was a reason why that was done, thats why I was mimicing it
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:47
For yours, you'd be Attack (top) > Attack (Min/Max), Fire Support (Min/Max), Recon (Min/Max)
I'd suggest a new category for that 2nd level attack though
it looks like you're copying your top entry
So (Attack Slot) for the top one for example
Yea, there was a reason, just doesn't apply to anything other than 40k 8th really :p
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 04 2018 18:49
@Tigerwraith the 30k Legiones Astartes cat is why FW is split
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:49
Hahah yea
That one straight up crashes BS on older devices.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 04 2018 18:49
LA literally won’t load on iPhones older then a 6s
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:50
uncompressed it's what ... 7mb?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 04 2018 18:50
Stop for a second and think about that
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:50
which I realize is small in the grand scheme of things, but not in BS terms.
Most cats are <1mb
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:50
CAVSO3.PNG
better
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:51
Aye - that looks proper.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 04 2018 18:51
Then consider that most of the 30k players with iPhones have gone to Quartermaster and that 30ks primary users are android users
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:51
You'll want to set max 0 for fire support / recon
and then add a modifer
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:51
ok, will do
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:51
So you can do your error if add without 5 attack
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jun 04 2018 18:52
Okay, now I've got admin approval, like away (it's all for our better experience!) https://www.facebook.com/groups/2206945593/permalink/10160536471970594/
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:52
do I need to make an constrain on the Attack Squad as well?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:53
Shouldn't
Unless Attack Squad has it's own requrements in a valid list.
Like, do you need x attack squads?
If so, yea - Min x
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:53
no, but Attack squads are a primary
and to get a secondary squad you need a primary
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:54
Ah
So nothing on Attack Squad
but max 0 on the rest
incremenent by whatever for each instance of Attack Squad in roster.
Can you take any number of other squads if you have 1 attack squad?
or is it 1 secondary squad per attack squad
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:55
so Attack, Infantry, Mech Inf, and Specialist are primary so you can always pick one of them
but to get a secondary squad, of Fire Support, Flight, Mortar, Recon, Transport you need one of the primarys,
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:56
Ok
Can you take 2 secondarys?
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:56
but I think I know what to do
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:56
for 1 attack?
or is it 1:1
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:56
1:1
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:56
Ok - so the easiest way in BS v2.0whateverwe'reon
Is to make 2 new categories
Primary and Secondary
And you can constrain based on number of instances of a category
So you can set the max 0 on the Secondary category rather than each squad type
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 18:58
so ill add a category link of primary for each primary squad
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 18:58
Aye, i'm loading up BS now - I'll get you an example to work with
Can you copy the file you have here?
Drag/drop if you're on pc
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:00
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:05
image.png
Without testing too much - this should be what you're after
The constraint on the top category will go roster wide
Allowing 1 Secondary tag per primary tag
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:05
cool thank you
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:05
The SSE and Root SEs are your markers.
They should auto add
to the correct forces
assuming you have the root category
Which will automatically flag your counters
Actually - change the Max 0 in Force under the "Secondary" category to Max 0 in Roster.
Huh, David Kushner forked the repo?
:p
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 19:11
still weird seeing stuff like that in the activity bar
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:12
so like this Earl?
CAVSO4.PNG
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:13
Tentatively yes.
That should do the constraints how you described.
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:13
although the SSE and SE didnt auto add
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:13
It won't in the data editor
or you mean in a roster editor too
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:14
right now im only in the data editor
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:14
Ah, yea, it won't in data editor
it should when you load up a new roster with that GST
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:14
ok
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:14
If you add an Attack Squad, the "Primary" entry should auto add
which flips the counter by one and allows one "Secondary" entry, which would auto add when you add say, a mortar squad
If you ever want a unit to have something by default
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:15
cool
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:15
an entry, I mean
min 1, max 1
sets it to auto add
So say: Shared Entry of Unit Dude Man, you want all Unit Dude Mans to have a Blaster Pistol. You make a Blaster Pistol shared entry and set min/max to one underneath Unit Dude Man
It will auto add it
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:16
ok for the attack squad do i need to do anything else
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:17
@GenWilhelm Think we'll see a story about BS in Wired? :p
It doesn't appear so?
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:17
do i need a min of 0 for the fire support and recon?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:17
Nah, Min 0 is default assumption
You only need to specify Min 0 if you plan to increment
Say, if under some condition, you HAVE to have 1 of something
You have to initialize it with min 0
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:18
ok
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:18
or else you can't add a conditional to it
But no - Attack squad appears to be as you needed it per the description
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:21
ok im going to do the Mechanized infantry squad next, because it does something like 40k where you can have a dedicated transport for each infantry model in the squad, and doesnt count towards the model limit of the squad
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:23
Ah, yea that's another thing you can do per category
Add a "Dedicated Transport" category and flag the transport shared entry with that category
Also, when you're messing with categories, think of them as Tags
but the "Primary" checkbox is the one that shows in roster editor
So If you add Say <Human> <Man> <Dedicated Transport> as categories, but flag the dedicated transport as a primary
You'll have all 3 of those tags, but the unit will only be selectable in the Dedicated Transport slot
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:29
CAVSO5.PNG
so should i do it like this
or like the the secondary cat?
If I do it though the category then I only have to do it once, and not each time in the force entry
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:35
So the way that works
is you'll flag it with yourself
So you have it worded that you increase max by 1 for every selection, of which the DT is a selection
er no
hmm
You increment by selections of Mechanized infantry
but you have no place for it?
Or is that "Attack" supposed to be Mechanized infantry
Oh derp - it's a category up top
yes - that works
That should work as you need as long as you tick "Mechanized Infantry" category in the relevant shared entries.
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:40
Mechanized Infantry is a type of squad that is 4 to 8 models of infantry with the task of attack
for every model of infantry you can have a model with the task of transport
bulky inf count as 2 models
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:41
So Bulky Inf would give you 2 transport slots?
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:41
bulky inf would take up 2 slots in a transport
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:41
Ah gotcha
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:41
most transports in CAV have 2 slots
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:42
Yea, you got the category flag as it should be it would appear
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:42
ok so dont mess with the Category entry of Dedicated Transport then
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:43
Not in this case
If you're using a Dedicated transport in more than 1 unit though
IE: Can more than a machanized unit take one?
If so, you may want to move the conditional up to the categories
just to save duplicate lines
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:44
no, squads are seperate in CAV
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:44
Then yea - as is should be fine
Since you're on the BSData repo - also, just an fyi about your version numbers
Even for minor revisions, always bump a version number prior to pushing a release.
Obv leave at 1 until you put your first one out, but after that, even a simple spelling change - if you want your users to get it, you have to bump the v#
Battlescribe won't grab an update if the v# isn't larger than what it has loaded.
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:46
Right, that was the plan to keep it at 1 until its made public
and then once ive gone public, any changes will always get a new v#
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:47
Bueno ^_^
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:48
but yea CAV dedicated transports are like they were in 7ed, you can only put the models in it that you purchased it for,
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:49
Ah gotcha
If that's the case, consider loading them as upgrades to a unit?
If you want people to use these as TO readable lists, it will allow them to say hey this transport is for sure with this unit
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:50
sure,
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:50
Er, I guess that's technically what is being done here
So nvm
Like in 7th, we had like, a drop pod as a shared entry
and then linked as a Dedicated Transport option to a Tactical squad min 0 max 1
Not as a separate root entry
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:52
well whats cool is, while there are a few different transports that squads can use, in CAV you cant mix them up, in the squad.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:53
Oh nice
That makes it easier
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:53
so you can have a Mech Inf squad that uses aircraft as transports, and you can have another Mech Inf squad that uses Vehicles, you cant have a Mech Inf Squad that uses Aircraft and Tanks,
and you have to use the same aircraft, or vehicles, you cant have half the squad using Tank a, and the other half using tank b
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:55
Ah alright. This'll work for that implementation then
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:56
I thought it would, the rules creator did keep it simple in some areas
next question
How do I limit the Attack squad to only CAVs and Vehicles with the Attack Task?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:59
You can create units that are like: Vehicle (Attack)
and only give those the attack squad category
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 19:59
And how to I limit the Mechanized Infantry Squad to Infantry only with the Attack task
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 19:59
Or add another category
It looks like you're set up for that already
So you'd have a shared entry called Infantry
And in the categories section, you give them the primary category of "Attack"
With the current setup, they'd only show as options for Attack Squad, and Mech squad
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:01
in the profile types I for Unit I added a Characteristic type of Task
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:01
You can't set a conditional for a profile I don't believe.
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:03
ok so do i need to add CAV and Vehicle to the Attack Squad, and Infantry to the Mechanized Infantry Squad?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:03
If they can be taken there, you can
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:04
not all CAV have the attack task,
some have the recon, some have Fire Support and some have Specialist
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:04
So an option would be to create a shared entry for each infantry and task type
So Infantry (Fire Support), Infanty (Specialist), etc
And then assign the correct primary categories
and they'd load up in the correct force selections
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:05
hmmm
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:06
Do you have a copy of the rules/force org chart?
It'd be easier for me to explain a good way if I saw those I think
not the rules I guess, but the part of the rules to deal with army creation and perhaps the unit datasheets
thats what a unit card looks like
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:19
the task for it is the crossed swords for attack
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:21
What's Archer
the name of the cav type?
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:21
Name of the CAV
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:22
That's an infantry transport?
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:22
nope recon
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:22
And another question, can the same CAV have 2 different roles
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:22
nope
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:23
Ok, so for our purposes, role is synonymous with say, Troops for 40k
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:23
yep
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:23
And different various units, CAV and Infantry alike, can be Attack
this one has 2 roles, but its attack and flight
but only aircraft have this
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:26
Ok - so easiest way for this
Your Roles would be Primary Categories
whereas Aircraft, Infantry, and CAV would be non primary categories.
I'm about to take off from work in a bit
I can add a couple example units when I get time tonight if you'd like
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:27
ok
so do I need to rethink my category entries then
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:28
No, just should have more :p
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:29
CAV Attack, CAV Fire Support, CAV Recon
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:29
Just CAV
You can assign more than 1 category to an entry :)
I suggest making that Archer Shared entry now
It helps to see how it all fits together if you have a piece to fit into the holes you're making
You'd make a new Shared entry called Archer, and assign CAV, and Attack, categories to it (there's a checkbox in the shared entry when you make it), then set attack as the primary.
Then keep the roster editor open as well - every time you save the gst in data editor, the roster editor will ask if you want to refresh data - it lets you test as you go
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:37
Anhur.PNG
this may be a better one to do that with as its one that can be used by any faction in the game
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:38
Ah, yea - that's right
Your universal ones would be in GST
The rest in Cat files
Same deal here - shared entry named Anhur, assign Attack and CAV categories, make attack the primary
don't worry about weapons, armor, SA rules, etc yet
just units and names for now, the rest is filler data that doesn't impact your constraints
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:39
ahh ok
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:39
Once you get your constraints and validation down
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:40
will give something for the Roster Editor to work with
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:40
adding the rest is just copywrite
Ayup
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:40
cool, thank you
means im moving faster along than I thought I would be
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:41
Manageable chunks :)
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:47
well its not letting me open it in roster editor
java.lang.IllegalArgumentException
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 20:51
when is it giving that error?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:54
O.o
Umm
Do you have duplicate GST GUIDs?
in your data folder
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 20:55
When I click on new roster and I select CAV:SO
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 20:56
yeah, that sounds like a structural issue. i'd check for duplicate UIDs, as Earl said
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:57
Especially if you copied 40k's GST
So another thing - BS abhors duplicate GUIDs ... for anything
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 20:57
shifty eyes
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 20:58
Unless we're talking about links, but then your links each have a different guid anyway :p
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 20:59
i used them in the implementation of headless detachments so theyre compatible with each other :smile:
but that's a terrible hack until we get proper inheritance
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 21:00
Lol
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 21:02
no I didnt copy anything from the 40k files, I started with a brand new gst file
thats the file I have so far
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 21:05
oh, do you not have a catalogue?
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 21:07
a CAT file?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 21:07
yeah
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 21:07
no I havent made one up yet
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 21:07
that'll be it then - you need at least one
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 21:07
i was trying to get the base line stuff done first before I added the cat files
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 21:08
you can just make an empty CAT if you want to test the GST
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 21:10
and save it as cat not catz
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 21:10
yep
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 21:10
That worked
so I guess I should make empty cat files for all the forces
factions
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 21:13
you can do. doesnt make much of a difference at this stage
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 21:19
ok so I have it open but the Anhur I have in the Shared Selection Entry isnt showing in the roster editor
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 21:20
the only entries available in the roster editor are those under root entries
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 21:21
ok so I have to add it to both shared and root
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 21:21
best practice is to have everything shared and link those that should be selectable in the root
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 21:22
What will said.
Shared entries are our items
Root entries are r signs that poin to those items.
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 21:24
ok now I see it, but cant add it
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 21:25
New entry link
Point to your shared entry
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jun 04 2018 21:27
@GenWilhelm I so have to get use to seeing your name in emails
I keep going whodafuq is this will Pattinson dude
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jun 04 2018 21:28
lmao. get used to it fake Jon :stuck_out_tongue:
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 21:30
ok that worked
I did a selection entry on root selection entries and not a entry link
and sadly i have to go help with dinner
be back in a bit thanks
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 04 2018 22:16
@Crowbar90 you are summoned, plenty of leaks abound to start early frameworks ;)
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 22:31
getting ready to do imperial knights
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 22:31
Aye, Crow is the maintainer on that
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 23:05
CAVSO6.PNG
now to just figure out how to keep the Inf out of the attack squad
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 23:06
Oh, if you have a CAV in there you mean?
On each infantry shared entry - set hidden = true if force has at least 1 instance of CAV category
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 23:07
Attack Squad can only be CAV or Vehicle
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 23:07
Oh, all the time?
Then just uncheck primary
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 23:07
yes
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 23:07
from the attack category on infantry entries
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 23:08
hehe and make infantry the primary for the infantry
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 23:08
And they'll stop showing up in that category
ayup
Primary is what sorts it in the roster editor
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 23:12
ok, no way to do secondary is there?
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
Jun 04 2018 23:19
I'm here @WindstormSCR :) so is the codex already out or are you referring to the Warhammer Community leaks?
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 23:22
Heres a tricky one for you
Flight Squad can only have 2 aircraft, but they both have to have the same task, Attack, Fire Support, or Recon
how do you do if then
if I choose 2 attack aircraft then you cant select recon or fire support
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 23:34
Set the others to hidden
if one is set
Set A to hidden if at least 1 instance of B OR C
Same with B and A OR C
C and B OR C
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 23:35
ok
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 23:35
BS uses a nice tidy If/And/Or system
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 23:36
ok just tried something where I selected 3 attack and 1 firesupport for the attack squad and the roster still wanted 1 more attack
i know its because i have the attack set to min4
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 23:36
Aye
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 23:38
how do i make it count the fire support unit as part of that min
oh i think i may have figured that out
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jun 04 2018 23:44
@Crowbar90 bolter and chainsword, has a good chunk so you could do what I did for clowns and just put placeholders with the logic in place
then just fill in names/profiles/etc
example getting relic # validation working, the warlord trait strat for the lance working (you can use the DE cat file for an example of how that might work)
the extra relic strats
stuff like that
I think the fact I had that in made it a simple job for @FarseerVeraenthis
with clowns
Francesco Venturoli
@Crowbar90
Jun 04 2018 23:45
Oh that's nice! I'll start working on it tomorrow after work
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 23:52
CAVSO8.PNG
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 23:57
Working how you need?
Hugh
@Tigerwraith
Jun 04 2018 23:58
no the decrement didnt work like I thought it would
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jun 04 2018 23:59
Check "And Child Selections" box?
in that decrement if