These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

19th
Sep 2018
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Sep 19 2018 07:22
OK, so I've been trying to follow this thread but I'm very confused about what options he will lose, or would stand to lose if we changed our approach... As far as I can see, the Codex is more permissive than the Index in the case of the Watch Captain - but I might be wrong, and that's what I can't see atm
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Sep 19 2018 07:31
uhm... guys... Am I overlooking something because I didnt work with BS for a long time or did something break?
When trying to fix the relic validation issue I did swap the condition from "force" to "roster".. I think that might be the issue the guy has. But the data editor disagrees with me...
grafik.png
he refuses the ID and clears the field as soon as I cause a blur event
doesnt want force now either, yet that still works in the data editor
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Sep 19 2018 07:33
maybe a problem in your ALPHA version of the editor?
the release version is v2.01.15.114
so you're a bit behind
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Sep 19 2018 07:34
I switched to live branch in like forever, I guess I need to reinstall to catch the editor on.. but that is the same version I used to create the condition in the first place, so unless a gnome switched something around, I don't think thats the issue..
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Sep 19 2018 07:35
:shrugs:
don't know then, weird.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Sep 19 2018 07:41
well with the power of xml editing it works, so probably somehow a bug in the data editor... :shrugs: dunno, dun care. All is fine.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Sep 19 2018 09:29
it's because you're working in root - you can only reference shared entries
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Sep 19 2018 09:30
oh yeah! missed that. You're going to need to put those constraints on the SSEs, not the RSEs.
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Sep 19 2018 11:24
I'm still failing to see why the watch captain suddenly gets to take an AGL when the index restricted him from it. Even if we focus on wargear boxes only, the watch captains wargear box effectively is sans the AGL
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Sep 19 2018 11:26
WC Termi is who should/n't get the nade launcher
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Sep 19 2018 11:35
Right
wargear options block, bottom entry
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Sep 19 2018 12:20
but then the deathwatch section says he can't do that, which is where the confusion is
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Sep 19 2018 12:21
and the RAW ignores that breakout, because of the way they reassigned datasheets in the index
and the way the DC is worded
so you either treat the new datasheet as entirely new, or you treat it as inheriting the old original
neither is very intuitive or good, but when have GW actually written rules in a sensible way with any thought to the consequences?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Sep 19 2018 12:25
yeah, that breakout is effectively ignored, because the data sheet resassignment happens separately, and the DC explicitly only cares about the original wargear options block
and it's all down to GW using precise and imprecise wording in the wrong places.... again
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 19 2018 12:38
damn your flickr and it not working at my work
lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Sep 19 2018 12:40
he just took a picture of the DW breakout
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 19 2018 12:42
yea, I figured. It's a poopie situation. If the model is the same as from index times - Captain in Termi = Watch Captain in Termie, DC gives the options.
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Sep 19 2018 13:23
But the watch captain tdas wargear section isn't the captains, it's
Power sword > relic blade
If you are dating that the DC only looks at the original entry then there is not watch captain and he doesn't get it anyway
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 19 2018 13:26
It's not so much datasheet as it is "datasheet for model"
The datasheet name actually means fuck-all
Prior to Codex: DW - Was a Watch Captain in Terminator armor represented with the Captain in Terminator Armor datasheet?
If so - it can take all the options that datasheet can.
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Sep 19 2018 13:30
He was but restricted to power sword > relic blade
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 19 2018 13:34
Ah yea - I see the clip from Jon now
It'd make no difference in the reasoning I think.
in a way
The index version of Captain in Terminator Armor for DW
Has specific loadout options
namely - only Power Sword > Relic Blade
That is the only thing that carries over from index.
so no Grenade Launcher.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Sep 19 2018 13:37
@acebaur the point is the way the DC is written, it doesn't care about the breakout
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Sep 19 2018 13:37
I don't read it that way
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 19 2018 13:37
It has to care about the breakout.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Sep 19 2018 13:37
otherwise we'd see some issues with BA and IG
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 19 2018 13:37
The breakout modifies the Index Datasheet.
Which is what the model is represented with for Deathwatch Captain
As presented - the datasheet that the Deathwatch captain in terminator armor used in the index is presented with the stated modifiers (the breakout)
That is the one that is valid for DC to pull in from
that's how I see it at least, given my limited experience with DW.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Sep 19 2018 13:40
i'm still interested to know what breaks if you interpret it that way
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Sep 19 2018 13:40
Well, All the other cats will need to be checked again if that is the new reading we collectively go with
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 19 2018 13:40
What other old datasheets are modified via breakout that way?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Sep 19 2018 13:41
BA, DA, SW, GK
some IG i believe
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Sep 19 2018 13:42
IG don't modify the sheets that they borrow
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Sep 19 2018 13:42
the FW indexes do
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 19 2018 13:43
I need to dl the index to my phone
I have DW, but didn't get index before I stepped back into the faraday cage that is a fuckload of limestone.
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Sep 19 2018 13:43
BA and DA have no issues with breakouts
BA just adds things to the wargear list
I take that back
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Sep 19 2018 13:45
I'll re-inventory the DW characters then, since I have time this afternoon after the dentist
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Sep 19 2018 13:45
DA changes the company champ gear
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 19 2018 13:48
I wonder how much will actually need to be changed in each cat for that
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Sep 19 2018 13:49
Probably not much
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Sep 19 2018 13:52
BA only added Jump Packs
The only “may take no other options” in DA is the champ
There are no “may take no other options” catches in SW
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 19 2018 13:55
Hmm, so a bit of changes everywhere.
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Sep 19 2018 13:55
The SW Dreadnought has other options
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Sep 19 2018 13:55
GK TermLib is the only other thing I see
@acebaur yes but from what I’m seeing there’s no major omission in that list
It just tweaks how it works
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 19 2018 13:57
That's my take on it honestly: The index datasheet that represents a model is taken as is including modifications, and those options are added to the codex version of the datasheet. if everyone else feels otherwise, maintainers do as maintainers do and such.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Sep 19 2018 13:59
Yeah so the DA champ and DW TermCap are the only exceptions to the rule it seems
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Sep 19 2018 14:03
@Kohato I agree
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Sep 19 2018 14:21
well, I'm back from the dentist in an hour and a half, I'll channel my pain into fixes
CrusherJoe @CrusherJoe scrolls up with bleary eyes and grump in his heart
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Sep 19 2018 14:30
What's all this, then?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 19 2018 14:32
We're lauding the merits of depreciation and Index/Codex.
CrusherJoe @CrusherJoe eyes his Wolf Priests on bikes
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Sep 19 2018 14:33
Yeah...not gonna go down that rabbit-hole again
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Sep 19 2018 14:46
It's more limitations on index sheets.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Sep 19 2018 18:56
I agree with @Kohato - I don't know what that means "in reality" with the way the data is arranged at present :smile:
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Sep 19 2018 19:06
I'm currently going through the DW characters and seeing what stays and what goes. I'm expecting several whiny bug reports as a result of these changes
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Sep 19 2018 19:12
righto, good work :smile: :+1: