These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

12th
Dec 2018
tekton
@tekton
Dec 12 2018 00:01
I'm late to the conversation- but the volume that GW prints at and ships at, six months is actually a quick turn around for their quality of printing these days. A decade ago it wouldn't have taken that long- but many of the actual print shops closed up so there's fewer and fewer people to do it every year.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 00:07
just goes to show how slow the meta will change if you only do balance updates in print
i'd be very surprised if DE or IK are knocked off the top spots with only the changes we've seen
tekton
@tekton
Dec 12 2018 00:14
hopefully it means more point changes in FAQs
i understand why they feel they need to income yearly from the print versions though; but maybe find a different printer that can have the covers done 6+ months out but the point pages in september for a december international ship
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 00:18
So
Thoughts on PFs on primaris sgts?
Context: Blood Angels
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 00:19
more options is always nice, but i dont think it'll be any good
tekton
@tekton
Dec 12 2018 00:21
if it's not a Primaris LT is it really even worth having?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 00:22
true that. personally i'm holding out until Codex: Primaris Lieutenants
tekton
@tekton
Dec 12 2018 00:23
@alphalas as a real answer to your question: they have so few good melee options, and interessors are decent with BA, that if you have the points with nothing really left then it's a good point sink
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 00:23
pretty much that ^
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 00:24
Fair enough
Do LTs have access to PFs too?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 00:24
but getting into melee doesnt really fit the rest of their options, unless you're in love with assault bolt rifles
dont think so. only power sword afaik
tekton
@tekton
Dec 12 2018 00:25
there's a captain with power fist
i haven't checked if CA18 actually added it for LT though (stupid being busy)
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 00:28
it didnt. the only SM datasheet was intercessors
the other datasheets were all daemons
tekton
@tekton
Dec 12 2018 00:32
kk
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 00:36
Can the sgt just take a PF like he can a chainsword?
If so I need to get a left hand PF lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 00:48
@alphalas yes, and I can send you one of my three upgrade frames if you want one, I'm only going to be using 2 of the PFs
:P
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 00:57
Sure lol - I think I might need to buy another box of DCo for bits lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 01:02
though looking at it, I think you could actually get away with a mk III fist on a spare primaris arm
they're very similar
with some careful chopping
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 01:05
Mkiii?
I play BA
Mkiv or nothing for HH lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 01:06
the mark III and IV are the same powerfist design, now that I look at my spare bits
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 01:06
Kk
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 01:06
just the upper arm is different, and that's what you replace
so use some of the spare rimaris arms that are holding bolt rifles or something, chip the lower arm and use greenstuff if neccessary
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 01:08
I probably would just use the BA left hand PF or the one from the IF upgrade
my awesome music discovery for the month
some of you may like it, especially the mechanicus inclined
tekton
@tekton
Dec 12 2018 01:15
That bass lines makes it worth it alone
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 01:26
I know, right?
tekton
@tekton
Dec 12 2018 01:57
Well I guess I know my song set for working on Tau tomorrow...
With my wife at work and helping take care of a friends cat I have more time to leave the bass pumped up, too! (She has a heart defect that makes too much bass hurt)
tekton
@tekton
Dec 12 2018 07:47
@WindstormSCR I think the Deathwatch Land Raider is using the old weapons costs?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 07:58
Shouldn't be?
how strange
I'll go have a look at that
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 12 2018 08:03
@CanisLupus518 sorry for taking so long to reply (went to a concert in San Antonio tonight) but technically that's not a tweet, but a Facebook post by a known member of the Warhammer Community team.
I have a sneaking suspicion we'll be getting a CA2018 FAQ either on Saturday or very soon thereafter
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 08:04

(Other Models) seems to cover it nicely.

would this apply to the dual monstrous scy-tals on trygons also applying to carnifexes ?

Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 12 2018 08:04
I have a completely unfounded in reality suspicion we may not be done with points adjustments quite yet, either...but that may just be my fevered imagination
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 08:04
or am I just dreaming
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 12 2018 08:06
It's been stated that CA2018 was sent to the printers before the release of Imperial Knights -- which is why Knights, Wolves and Orks (and possibly Drukhari) weren't touched
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 08:07
oooh day 1 patches ? nice
GW does Bethesda
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 12 2018 08:07
You'll notice no Wolf-specific units received discounts (i.e., named characters, when almost every other one besides Bobby G got a reduction)
Dude
We've beat that already
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 08:07
That music is pretty awesome, not sure why that video has so many down votes though...!
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 12 2018 08:08
Wolves had a pre-release patch LOL
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 08:08
oh yeah, lol , forgot about the Saga of sagas
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 12 2018 08:11
In my deepest fever-dreams one of the FAQ questions will be "Q: That Sisters beta codex. WTF, yo? A: Yeah, sorry about that. That was actually a draft on an intern's laptop (who happens to hate Sisters of Battle) that got mistakenly sent to the printer. Here's your new list of Acts of Faith (notice they're basically the same as in the Index) and the Geminae Superior are still part of Celestine's unit. We promise the actual codex won't suck nearly as bad as that abortion of poor design would lead you to believe."
But....as I've said
You might say I'm a dreamer
(but I'm not the only one)
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 08:13
Mcartney was a SoB player ..Lennon was full on World Eaters
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 12 2018 08:14
Was that before or after he was replaced by an imposter?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 08:19
@tekton thanks for the catch
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 08:23
@WindstormSCR - did you get shot of your Ravens ? wondering about dusting off the Vanguard Vets next week
cause I'm a sucker for punishment
tekton
@tekton
Dec 12 2018 08:25
@WindstormSCR it was a very selfish catch ;)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 08:26
I have a very tiny contengent of RG left
@sk_Father_Price_twitter most everything either got converted to DW or sold, but if you ever have interest I do have a bag of about 40 RG resin shoulderpads :P
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 08:28
normally I'd be on that like a tramp on chips! but I'm skint and in the UK and also the missus has seen my GW spend this year so I'm fully in the black book now ...
how're you finding your service to the watch now then? enjoying the fragstorm shenanigans :)
my mates answer is usually "Unless I say otherwise .. I'm wounding your shit on 2+!" ... I dunno how that applies to non-xenos stuff .. but there it is
tekton
@tekton
Dec 12 2018 08:31
Hellblaster with ablative wounds is rather amazing
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Dec 12 2018 08:38
@WindstormSCR that vid was awesome. I think I have a lil cutsie crush on the bass playing robot arm, so kawai! But also demonstrates why the sillica animus needs to be abhorred!
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 09:12
@sk_Father_Price_twitter because mutagenic corrosive compounds work equally well on all atomic structures
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 09:17
@WindstormSCR on the subject of deathwatch and killing things - does the "Hellfire Shells" stratagem work on anything?? since it doesn't specifically state it doesn't work on, for example, vehicles, would that be a good reason to take an infernus heavy bolter against Knights - so you could use the strat??
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 09:17
works on anything - yup
oh wait one sec ... you mean firer not target ... lemme check if it's infantry only
Use this Stratagem just before an ADEPTUS ASTARTES INFANTRY model attacks with a heavy bolter
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 09:19
yeah, so a dude with an infernus heavy bolter can use it
and he can mortal wound anything
:+1:
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 09:21
the heavy bolter is not capitalised or emboldened .. so presume like other stuff that just has the right words in the title (Like flamers for slamanders etc.), so Infernus HB counts just like normal HB ...
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 09:21
yep, though I prefer standard heavy bolter
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Dec 12 2018 09:25
the beta sisters dex has one thing going for it, it allows me to concentrate on my daemonettes without worry of getting exited about sisters for the short term
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 09:26
:+1: my question was that it would work on anything, and it sounds like you agree with me that it would :smile:
the best difference about IHB rather than standard HB is that the IHB is Assault, so there is no penalty for moving
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 09:28
man! DW get all the coolest toys !
I want some Rapid Fire Las cannons on my Dread
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 09:40
hehehehe
they are twice as expensive as standard heavy bolters mind
Mark Alexander
@hatchetboy
Dec 12 2018 11:20
I poked the Wraithknight weapons points costs. They were wrong... :)
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 11:39
oh are they now...
Mark Alexander
@hatchetboy
Dec 12 2018 11:43
Let me rephrase that. I'm pretty certain they were wrong! :)
it was showing the old cost for the shield variants
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 12 2018 11:43
@FarseerVeraenthis, they look wrong to me on master as well, sorry.
did we drop a commit somewhere?
Mark Alexander
@hatchetboy
Dec 12 2018 11:44
You got the update on the base chassis
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 11:45
suncannon is 60, scattershield is 30, so that combo should be 90. GG = no change, 10, scattershield = 30, so that combo should be 40
so if it is anything different from that on the CAT then they need updating :smile:
it's no trouble, I imagine it is likely they are costed directly in the Wraithknight itself, rather than as a separate shared entry (due to the glorious consistent inconsistency rules of GW)
so they likely got missed
thanks for the tip
looks like it has been wrong from the start, since GG/SS should have been 30 from the Codex points
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 11:52
oh no, I can't read
yup Titanic GG should be 30, so your calcs are correct
@hatchetboy could you add a version increment to you PR please
I'm at work so I can't do it
once that's added I can merge the PR :smile:
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 12:05
was just checking through to make sure all the files have gone up a version, and most of them are up by 1 or 2. IG has gone up 17 versions :laughing:
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 12 2018 12:06
This is why I only increment once per release :)
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 12:06
yeah, same. i guess that's what happens when multiple people work on a file
Mark Alexander
@hatchetboy
Dec 12 2018 12:07
Done, d'oh!
;)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 12:07
No that’s all me lol
I increment every time I test a bugfix
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 12:08
ah. RIP
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 12:08
So the other night when @Kohato was walking me through fixing some conditionals it probably went up 6 or 8 there
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 12:09
that's good for testing, i guess. it's just amusing to me that IG's version is about triple the average
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 12:09
Makes it easier to check changes in the roster editor
Because increments trigger the “there were changes, reload?” Dialogue
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Dec 12 2018 12:10
not on version though, any other change triggers it as well
I presume its on upddate on the file itself
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 12:10
just hitting save will trigger it, im pretty sure
even if nothing changed
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 12:12
I just commit with a redux or tridux :p. Only on pre releases though. When we are live it's a version for every bug session.
Correct increment doesn't trigger that. Just a save with changes will
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 12:14
changing the version does confirm that you're looking at the changed file though
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Dec 12 2018 12:15
version is mostly for release and the update data function from BS
new version = prompt new download from appspot
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 12:15
I’ve had it not trigger without increments too - but I think that was just roster editor being a derp and not updating
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Dec 12 2018 12:15
yeah that happens, in that case you have to restart the roster editor and he catches on again
probably an internal exception that stops the check from running
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 12:16
Probably
But yeah like @GenWilhelm said it’s also so I can visually confirm it updated
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 12:17
yeah, that's its primary use, Dirk. but it's also useful when you get a bug report to know exactly which version of the file they're looking at
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 12:17
I just never reduce the rev number after a session lol
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 12:17
best practice would probably be one increment per commit
so if people are using WIP data, like this last week, we can confirm whether theyre looking at the latest file, or one that's already been changed
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Dec 12 2018 12:19
good point
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 12 2018 12:19
yeah, I'm just lazy :)
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 12:21
if anything it's easier, since you dont have to remember whether you already incremented since last release :stuck_out_tongue:
KarlBod
@KarlBod
Dec 12 2018 13:13
Hey guys. This might be a stupid question, but:
I'm having a friendly event this weekend with friends, and we would love to use the CA points. I have seen there are lots of commits containing the changes. Is there any way I can pull these and merge them into a Interim Version until the proper CA update gets released?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 13:17
if you know how to use Github, you can clone the Repo in its current state and you'll have 99% correct CA data
@Mad-Spy per #4013 how did we decide to handle these kind of datasheets?? seems like a way to field an understrength unit, hence, a little shifty as to why they want it...
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 12 2018 13:21
My understanding is that they need to go in. It's a valid datasheet.
KarlBod
@KarlBod
Dec 12 2018 13:21
@FarseerVeraenthis thanks. That should be within my capabilities. :D do you know when the update is planned?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 12 2018 13:21
That is almost certainly the reason. However, the easy builds are fixed wargear (and should be implemented as such).
@KarlBod, I imagine we'll release Saturday or Sunday, after we get a real copy of the book and can confirm the leaks.
KarlBod
@KarlBod
Dec 12 2018 13:24
All right. Thanks and thanks for the great work.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 13:24
would it be easier to add them as a separate root selection entry?? so the unit is the unit as specified on the datasheet
@KarlBod no problems :smile: just make sure at least someone in your gaming group actually buys the books IRL :wink:
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 13:29
I vaguely remember there was a reason why we didn’t but the easybuilds in but I forget what it was
I know at least reivers the easybuild datasheet has ULTRAMARINES not <chapter>
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 13:29
That same vague memory is why I asked :smile:
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 12 2018 13:30
ah, well. If it's UM fixed then they only get to take them in UM armies ;)
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 13:30
possibly because we don't always have the easy build sheets
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Dec 12 2018 13:30
because of the flowchart "does your model have a datasheet in a codex" -> yes
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 13:30
and that too
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 13:33
^i think that was the main reason why
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 13:40
They also do not have matched play profile for the easy build.
If we add it - it should be hidden unless narative/open is selected.
And th en hidden if no UM chapter/mixed is selected.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 13:41
and that's (yet another) reason why they've not been added previously
because all of that seems like a massive effort for no benefit
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 13:41
Not saying i'm for it - I don't think they need to be added, but if we do, it should be with those conditions.

Kohato released this Dec 9, 2018 · 94 commits to master since this release

Mmm baby. This is gonna be a nice release.

lol
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 13:45
There
I took care of it with 3 easy reasons why lol
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 13:46
You had a stroke mid sentence with point #2.
The easybuild datasheets (at least for SM) all have the ULTRAMARINES keyword, not
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 13:47
heheheheh: this is a bug rep on the answer to the bug rep
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 13:47
Just concern for Jon's mental well being is all.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 13:48
i thought i recognised that bug rep - #1847
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 13:51
:+1:
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 13:52
Damnit
No just my head going faster then my thumb again
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 13:53
lolol
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 12 2018 13:53
No it’s neither
It’s git doing something funky with the < >
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 13:54
Oh, yea you have to escape brackets :/
It's annoying
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 13:54
what is that markdown even for?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 13:55
I assume HTML
but not sure
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 14:45
@hatchetboy if you want to double-check the other cats for elves feel free, but the only other changes I know of were the fusion pistols for harlequins, and the tantalus/corsairs changes were the same as CA 2017. Still, nice to have another bonesinger around to check for errors!
Mark Alexander
@hatchetboy
Dec 12 2018 14:49
I'm working my way through them in my free time! I'll let you know if I find anything else... :)
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 14:49
:+1:
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 14:51
I'm still figuring out the best way to run a wraith host, you're pretty much stuck with a supreme command to get both the spiritseer and WK into the same detachment
currently thinking 2 wraithseers, spiritseer, WK, and optionally some wraithblades
wraithseers are crazy good with thier current cost, especially as D-cannon platforms
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 14:58
that sounds like a wicked hunting party
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 14:59
the seers attract a lot of firepower, and can actually survive a good chunk of it
though I might run one with standard wraithcannon and run it forward
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 15:00
the wraithseers can take Heavy Waepons from the Codex, so you could go cheap and run him with a Shuriken Cannon - then he can advance and still fire
GSeed
@seedgeorge
Dec 12 2018 15:01
give him the warlord trait that lets you snipe characters? ;)
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 15:01
is the idea to use the new Wraith Host detachment to give the Knight an Invuln from the Spiritseer??
@seedgeorge thats the usual proceedure with the D-Cannon dude
so d-cannon dude nipes characters, "other" wraithseer runs around causing trouble
GSeed
@seedgeorge
Dec 12 2018 15:02
I love it.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 15:02
@WindstormSCR has a knack of creating vicious army lists
GSeed
@seedgeorge
Dec 12 2018 15:05
delighted to see those WK points drops
wraith detachment sounds appealing.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 15:07
what does it do exactly?
i havent really looked at any outside of GSC and IG
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 15:08
well, the usual 1CP give everyone in the detachment the special keyword
and then there is a stratagem to transfer the invuln from a character to another unit for the rest of the turn
(I think, I don't remember it exactly)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 15:32
@FarseerVeraenthis the wraithcannon is also assault
And only 15pts
Far more potent than a shuricannon
Also the invuln transfer makes running a dual heavy cannon WK viable for anti knight/vehicle work
Current thought is using a gate to protect it for T1
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 15:36
I forgot the wraithcannon is assaault
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 15:37
Tbh I might just take asurmen in the list and footslog 6 squads of avengers for double battalion
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 15:37
that's a lot of shuriken
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 15:37
Then use whatever points remain for fire prisms and hemlocks
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 15:38
@seedgeorge there is also another Stratagem to give a unit from the detachment +1 A
@WindstormSCR that supreme command detachment gets even more nasty when you go for wraithblades, +1 A, and then x2 with the psytronome
Alex Baur
@acebaur
Dec 12 2018 15:39
Is there a way to get the data files onto mobile before we release them?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 15:39
yes
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 15:39
Autarch, Asurmen, Farseer SR, warlock SR, 6x 5 DA, the wraith supcom
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 15:39
how much does that come to?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 15:39
Not at my PC or I'd see what that comes to
Currently phoneposting
Ideally grab a hemlock, then FPs
Possibly double hemlock, just for extra reliable AV power
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 12 2018 15:42
1491 for Asurmen, Autarch, Farseer SR, Warlock SR, 6x5 DA, 2xWS, SS, WK
so you've got 500pts to play with
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 15:42
Slap 2 hemlocks in there
GSeed
@seedgeorge
Dec 12 2018 15:42
very spicy
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 12 2018 15:42
takes you to 1911
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 15:43
so, a sprinkling of extra DA bodies
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 12 2018 15:43
maybe dump a Hemlock for 'Blades in the SupCom instead?
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 15:43
Just enough for a shuricat windriders bodyguard
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 15:43
I was also going to suggest 'blades in the SupCom
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 15:44
Maybe, they take a lot of effort to make really work
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 15:44
yeah totally 'blades in the SupCom ... we're all thinking it
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 15:44
what would you have to shuffle to get them a wave serpent to cruise in??
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 12 2018 15:44
if you drop a Hemlock for Blades, you can only get 8
also, that's a basic Autarch
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 15:50
You only need 5 ghostaxe blades
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 12 2018 15:50
yeah, still can't quite do it
2015 with 5 blades and a Serpent
and no wargear on the Autarch
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 15:52
close but no cigar then
still a pretty wicked list
how did you equip the wraithknight?
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 12 2018 15:53
cannons
so you could potentially drop it to sun and shield and get some points back there
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 15:53
hehehehe
yeah, of course, the ponit of going supcom is to use the invuln transfer strat
and if the WK has sun/shield, he has one already :smile:
of course, another option would be to build around a big unit of blades webwaying
webway, invul to protect them and then charge the next turn
means you get the invuln of axe/shield wraithblades, but without the -1 to hit, and with an extra attack in the first place
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 15:57
I have decided ... I don't like the sound of any of this !
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 15:57
lol, Price. it sounds a lot more friendly than ynnari spears/reapers
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 15:57
I mean, tbh, I don't have any experience running a WK, or anything other than Wraithguard with cannons (I have 10 metal ones) so it's all just sitballing from my pov
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 15:58
well, I hear no mention of any lube ... and I know all those models are pointy .... soooo
just say no
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 12 2018 15:59
Simon, I can send you some Blades if you want them :)
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 16:00
that said ... I can NOT wait for saturday .. or (wednesday depending on appspot) ... see if I can fit wraiths destroyers and DDA's into any decent list with hoping for 10+ CP
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:00
I mean, I won't say no to more Eldar dudes :smile:
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Sad day.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 16:01
the link only puts your question mate ... did they respond ?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:01
By that regard, We'd conclude that the Nanoscarab casket works, but the strat pays points.
Oh - derp

Bohême Jonathan - Even if he's only re-set at the end of the phase, Armour of Fate still triggers before Guilliman would be slain...
While Ressurection Protocols is used after the character has been slain, then give a chance to ressurect him at the end of the phase.

Warhammer 40,000 - Bohême's got this in one, Earl!

Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:02
nah, you have to click the "comment" button
and then a second time
I had the same journey
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 16:02
it might be my works filter or just Chrome
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 12 2018 16:02
probably Chrome, I had the same
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:02
i'm on firefox... it's all pointless, because @Kohato copied it up anyway :-)
so RB does go to limbo land until the end of the phase
Necrons have to pay Rez points
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:03
Aye, because it's triggered immediately - no points.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 16:03
so skeletons have to pay, but superman doesnt. is that what i'm hearing?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:03
Res Protocols (Strat) is done after death, hence points.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:03
you got it
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 16:03
that makes no sense .. the abilities are worded exactly the same
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:03
BUT - Nanoscarab Casket
is a relic, and therefor an ability
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:04
aha, @sk_Father_Price_twitter but they're not
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:04
which would trigger a'la bobby's armor.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:04
:+1:
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:04
So based on that response - rez strats pay points, while relics do not.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:04
depends on the wording
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:04
which still means the strat is useless as shit.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:04
hehehehehe
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:04
I'm not setting 150~ points aside for a 50% shot at rezzing a ccb
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 16:04
the distinction is whether they are slain before or after the ability kicks in
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 16:05
aaah ... yeah .. RP says SLAIN and roll at end of phase ... damn
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:05
Really wish that were changed, because it is useless.
But I understand their reasoning/order of operations now.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 16:06
yeah, it feels very arbitrary when some faction get free shit, but others dont
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 16:06
so you have to .. save the points (or a random amount of points) .. spend the CP at death ... and then wait til end of phase to roll pass or fail ?
eep
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:06
That's the gist of it, yes.
Don't tell your playgroup
:p
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 16:07
CSM and Orks: free dudes for you
IG and Nids: tough shit, mate
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 16:07
I'll just rely on the casket instead ... another stratagem I can burn
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:08
fuck me where's the casket at
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 16:09
the relic? p115
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 12 2018 16:09
the beta sisters dex has one thing going for it, it allows me to concentrate on my daemonettes without worry of getting exited about sisters for the short term
Wow @CloverFox we're in the same boat there
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:09
I meant is it restricted?
I don't have the book on my phone anymore - swapped to a new phone
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 16:09
yeah, it triggers "the first time the bearer is slain"
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:10
So same as armor of fate then
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 16:10
AoF is "reduced to 0 wounds"
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:10
fuck, no it is reduced to 0
so pay for casket too
Sorry @sk_Father_Price_twitter no free rezzes.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 16:10
yep. arbitraryhammer strikes again
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:10
Those toys go back in the box.
Curious - is there a restriction on who can take that Will
while you have the book
I can't get it to show in BS - need to make sure I don't have it messed up
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 16:11
models with phalectary
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:11
ah bingo
ty
At least the casket has some rather nice healing.
D3 on everyone's turn rather than 1 on yours.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:12
does that mean I need to check my aeldari book too...
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:12
so that can still be useful.
for the phoenix thing?
probably wouldn't be a bad idea.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:13
shiiiiiiit....
"The first time this model is slain"
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:13
My condolences.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:15
well, I don't use that relic anyway
not that I've played with my pointy ears much this edition
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:15
Also - holy fuck, Android BS on a Pixel 3XL is like, leagues faster than on IOS
@FarseerVeraenthis @seedgeorge
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:16
I've previously used the shimmerplume on my Ulthwe Autarch - I figured him not taking wounds in the first place is better
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:16
@FarseerVeraenthis
Phoenix gem is fine
read on
"Instead of being slain"
It never dies if it triggers.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 16:16
@Kohato - I'm sure the casket works the same as RG ... first ime reduced to 0 wounds = first time bearer is slain.
you can't Roll if you aren't reduced to 0 ...
and if you hit 0 you ded
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:17
That's where the order of operations comes in - AoF happens immediately at 0 wounds.
RP comes in as a manual action after something is slain. Casket - states after it is slain.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 16:18
No I get RP ... it deffo says it happens later ... but casket and RG are identical
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 16:18
@FarseerVeraenthis I'm a fan of wingtarch via falcou's wing
because you keep the star glaive, and get to ride in transports
and still get to choose 2 gear bits
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:18
One is 0 wounds, one is slain - Order of operations in BRB - once something hits 0 wounds, then it is slain/destroyed. AOF fits in between those two.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:18
@WindstormSCR that list is pretty nasty
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 16:18
sorry ... I'm gonna leave this alone .. making me irrationally annoyed at GW and I have to face other road users in 12 minutes lol
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:18
at least, that's the reasoning given on FB
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 16:19
it's still not consistent though, because AoF doesnt say that RG isn't slain
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 16:19
My autarch is the local firemagnet when he shows up, something about a sniping missile launcher on a decent melee combatant scares people
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:19
Right, that's the key - it's right after he hits 0 wounds, before he is slain.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 16:19
no .. and if he isn't slain/removed ... how the hell can he be Set up again lol
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:19
Casket is after slain.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 16:20
and if he stays on the table at 0 wounds that's a new precedent too
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:20
phoenix gem is unpleasant, because the first part says "IS slain", and then "instead of"... so you have to be slain for it to trigger, and then you backward to not slain... :frowning:
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 16:20
so can be shot to shit and never die
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:20
Feel free to pursue - I'd love to have a free rez :p but I understand their response.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 16:20
yeah, you make the roll before he is slain. but then it doesnt do anything to override the fact that 0 wound => slain
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:20
Right simon - it's the instead of that is free for elves.
Sure you're slain, but we have timey wimey shit. so ... nope you weren't.
same as pre CA celestine.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:21
:+1:
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 16:21
celestine triggers on 0 wounds though
but she explicitly states that she is not slain
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:22
uhuh, thats the difference
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:22
Yea, "Once she has lost her last wound ... She is not removed, but is instead resurrected"
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:22
I hope there's no TO's here, or any WAAC gamers, we could have just really upset the apple cart
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:22
So the instead is still here - negates the slain regardless of how slain is worded.
Joe's a TO
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 16:22
the phoenix gem is worded that way because the second clause only triggers if your shrapnel bomb wounds people
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:22
But Joe's Joe. We upset him all the time.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:22
(I know :tongue: )
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 16:23
stop reading, Joe. only madness lies this way
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:23
It's inconsistant across cats, but consistant in the order I think.
I get the method. I hate the result.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 16:23
and the answer is specific trumps general, soyou get a free ride, but only if the rule allows
this is why USRs were good
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 16:24
there just needs to be consistency across rule books
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 16:24
it's the same as all the Look out Sir options / saviour protocols etc. across codex ... 17 different ways to perform a similar action
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:24
yeah, so, 0 / slain / rez = points
0 / interrupt / rez = not slain = free
0 / slain / bomb / not slain = free?!
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 16:24
because it could have been a very simple Resurrect usr
yes
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:24
  1. Lose your last wound
  2. Slain
  3. remove from board.
AOF - Happens between 1 and 2
Celestine - Happens between 1 and 2
Res Protocols - Happens after 3
Casket - HAppens after 3
Phoenix Gem - Happens after 3 - but says "Instead of Death", so reverts to between 1 and 2
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:24
I never had a problem with Universal Special Rules, I thought they were pretty good actually....
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:25
Anything that happens after 2, and doesn't revert to between 1 and 2, pays points.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:25
@Kohato consistently inconsistent
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 12 2018 16:25
I have to disagree with that on RG ... nothing exempts his removal ... there's a trigger at 0 wounds for a dice roll but nothing prevents his removal
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:25
It's dirty, but It's consistantly dirty.
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 16:26
yeah, RG is removed from the board and then set up again at the end of the phase
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:26
that's when he goes to "limbo land"
CloverFox
@CloverFox
Dec 12 2018 16:26
it got a bit silly when "tesla" was added as a usr when litterally only necrons used it, and adding "salvo" complicated things, but things like feel no pain were fine
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:26
he gets free tequila and a lap dance if your opponent is playing slowly
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 16:26
Also _ GL getting GW to respond to a thread they already responded to.
It's rather rare.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 16:26
then he comes back fully recharged
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 12 2018 17:37
@CrusherJoe did the carnodon get updated? because it isnt in the codex or Imperial Armour
it has its own points costs on its datasheet
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 12 2018 18:06
It uses weapons that were updated.
Namely autocannons, h flamers and multi-lasers
The twin versions are unaffected
And CA specifies "Forge World Points Updates"
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 12 2018 18:12
Read the header text for the FW section
It specifically says it replaces points from publications with an earlier date, and also on those without a publication date
In essence, "If it's FW, these points values replace them."
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 12 2018 18:18
In other news
Does anyone have good images of the Guard stuff for Vigilus? I'm going to implement them.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 19:51
Deathwatch really is a puzzle now with the point drops, and the blackstar is increasingly a red-headed stepchild that is too expensive for effect
tekton
@tekton
Dec 12 2018 20:08
i was looking at that last night, too; i'm actually back to two repulsors in my DW list
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 20:31
oh yeah... the blackstar didn't get a points drop...
either someone is using them and doing well
or GW completely forgot about them!!
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 20:33
Or you clearly don't understand genius that is the balance team /s
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 20:35
obviously
perhaps there is a special page in the Vigilus book where it suddenly gets retrofitted with Power of The Machine Spirit so it can move and fire heavy weapons without penalty
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 20:36
Only if Vindicare can also do that.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 20:36
what? the Vindicare is getting PoTMS?!?!?!
I know they're "like machines" but surely that's a stretch too far.....
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 20:41
What's a stretch is to believe that an elite inquisition trained sniper can only manage to fire off a single shot and only if he doesn't move.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 20:42
it is a REALLY BIG gun
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 20:43
Elite trained killing machine who is an expert at staying in the shadows and popping out to snipe at the correct time
Forgets how to shoot the turn he walks out of the shadows.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 20:46
yeah, it is a REALLY BIG gun after all...
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 20:49
Master assassin, whose primary mission is to drop behind enemy lines and eliminate key targets, doesn't know what a trigger is the turn he deep strikes.
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 20:50
because he's been setting up for weeks because he has a really big gun "one shot is all I need" and all that...
( :tongue: )
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 20:51
Except when he normally needs like ... 3 to kill a character
lol
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 20:52
or more - depending on his random damage]
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 20:52
Hell i'm fine with that, just let the man move an inch and still shoot his gun effectively :(
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Dec 12 2018 21:23
but.. but sniper rifle. Setup time. Aiming. It's fluffy... but he at least got a pts drop.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 12 2018 21:30
Superior Sniper Rifle, give him Heavy D3 at least : p
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 12 2018 22:07
hehehe, see @Kohato , I told you - it's a REALLY BIG GUN... hehehe... Heavy 2 would be better. Stalker Bolters are Heavy 2, they can wound on 2+ and have a 36" range (Kraken Rounds)
OK, so they don't hit on 2+, and they don't ignore invuln saves
but they're only 4 points
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 12 2018 22:42
The poor Vindicare is a prime example of fluff not even coming close to crunch
Really it should be if you get shot by a Vindicare...you just die
Well...infantry or bikers only, probably
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 12 2018 23:48
the blackstar did get a points drop, but the primary issue it faces is a loaded blackstar is 222. a loaded land raider crusader is 264
a dakka repulsor is 262
a storm eagle has +8 capacity, POTMS, and more wounds, but costs more
but not so much more as to not be a viable replacement