These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

13th
Dec 2018
tekton
@tekton
Dec 13 2018 02:05
So far non ITC Deathwatch has been pretty nasty when backed by two repulsors; in ITC rules/missions I still struggle a lot
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 13 2018 02:06
I only really care about my casual meta, which is just core GW rules
the only real thing I need is a way to deal with knights that isn't another knight, and I think hammer terminators fit the bill nicely
tekton
@tekton
Dec 13 2018 02:14
I ignored the castellan on the table in my last game, i think it frustrated my opponent
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 13 2018 03:16
If you ignoring 600 points frustrated him then he played the castellan wrong lol
tekton
@tekton
Dec 13 2018 03:21
it's oddly effective against people who don't play as many games- they seem to be used to having the castellan as a distraction carnifex; so when they can't hold any objectives they start getting further and further behind on primary objectives and don't know what to do anymore
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 13 2018 05:07
I would be overjoyed and be abusing the hell out if that firepower fir target priority remiving threats to my scorers
also tablet keyboards suck
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 05:09
I've had lots of people ignore my Castellan -- just the threat of 3++ is a deterrant
And once they realize they really shouldn't ignore it, the damage is (quite literally) done
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 13 2018 05:18
I think my method of getting the terminators to target should work: move JP chaplain and librarian up, use beacon angelis to get terminators into position using a redeployment from my deployment zone (sidestepping the beta rule), veil of time for charge reroll, possibly anti-horde power or a buff, clear hole in the screen if there is one, charge in and wreck face with +1 to wound on thunder hammers, and potentially full rerolls if there is a good way to bounce the chappy in close enough
@CrusherJoe thoughts? should work fairly well against a gallant
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 09:58
@WindstormSCR yeah, I see it now, 15 points is not really much to write home about, it NEEDS POTMS
@WindstormSCR I was thinking about this yesterday (or was it Tuesday...?!) - instead of hammernators, you could go for Vanguard Veterans
because they don't HAVE to take storm shields and so are somewhat cheaper
although, they are considerably more squishy than the terminators
but you don't have to spend a relic on the Beacon
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 10:15
@tekton what's the difference between ITC and non-ITC that makes your Deathwatch work/not work...??
Mark Alexander
@hatchetboy
Dec 13 2018 10:46
I don't know about @tekton, but when I've played DW in ITC I've found them really vulnerable to the Marked for Death and Butchers Bill secondaries (elite marine army, plays MSU, every unit is 7+ PL). Also the reliance on characters often makes Headhunter and Kingslayer bad. Add onto that the reliance on shooting in an ITC style terrain system and you're usually fighting an uphill battle.
Having said that I don't thing they're anything like as bad as everyone says they are. The Interceptor/Aggressor blob is remarkable and the vets provide a hell of a lot of utility.
With Orks becoming a problem I see DW going up in value. DW love facing horde armies.
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 13 2018 11:51
fragstorm cannons for ALL the Xenos ...
Mark Alexander
@hatchetboy
Dec 13 2018 13:13
Start with a battalion with Smash Captain with Beacon Angelis, Watchmaster, Intercessors with 4 Aggressors and an Inceptor, 5xVets with Frag Cannons, 5xVets with SB/SS, 2xAssault Razerbacks. Add flavor/Imp knights/admech/guard to taste. :)
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 13:44
@WindstormSCR there's a couple of assumptions there that I need more info on first. How many attacks is this little deathball of yours generating a turn?
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 13:44
5 hammernators is 11 attacks
@hatchetboy that sounds pretty vicious
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 13:46
Hmm...I mean...it definitely could work, but that's assuming the rest of my army sits around and does nothing while this is going on
(I'm speaking from personal experience)
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 13:53
So on the charge you send 10 guardsmen to the Emperor's rest. Maybe you get to my second screen, maybe not. You definintely will have to face a full turn or two of shooting from my entire army (and it's not an insignificant amount of firepower). I probably won't kill all the hammer boys but I don't have to -- just two or three. Oddly enough a Castellan excels at that. If you catch a Gallant off guard you'll murder it outright (any knight, really). If it were me and knowing that was your main AT I'd double down on the invul save in combat relic and rotate when you made the charge -- sure it's only 4++ but every save helps.
One thing for sure though, if you charge a Gallant do whatever you have to do to kill it dead before it gets to swing...
tekton
@tekton
Dec 13 2018 15:10
@FarseerVeraenthis DW has a hard time picking up secondary points AND it gives them up pretty easily. When the game is more dynamic (ie shifting priorities from randomized cards) their adaptability comes in handy. For ITC things are quite static, they have so few models it’s more difficult to control enough points at times.
To be fair, the only “elite” army that’s been doing well in ITC formats has been Custodes (with guard and assassins to be fair) because they’re defensive enough to overcome being an elite army.
Oh, @hatchetboy said basically the same thing it just didn’t load, lol
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 15:13
hehehe, well, that confirms it though :smile:
and @CrusherJoe those were my thoughts when I suggested going to Vanguard Vets to save a few points - you're borderline at full strength, and you likely won't get a second chance
tekton
@tekton
Dec 13 2018 15:14
Since Orks shoot better than DW it’s actually a pretty hard match up for them; that said Goff only armies are pretty even with DW
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 13 2018 15:19
not seen an Ork BatRep yet .. any good ones around ?
I have played Marines vs Orks and Marines got Stomped! ^(TM) hard
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 15:21
i've seen knights vs orks, and the orks got 360 turbo-dunked
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 15:21
In the hands of a competent general Orks are quite over the top redonkulous
It is Known.gif
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 15:26
So got a GT in Waco on Saturday
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 15:27
expecting a green tide?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 15:27
Not using CA of course, at it is happening on release day
So...I've come up with some lists, and I'd like opinions. :)
v1.0
Waco v1.0.PNG
Nice full brigade, lots of CP...dunno about killing power though
v1.1
Waco v1.1.PNG
Double Guard battalions...I think this one is my favorite...but...
v1.2 the wildcard -- probably a very dumb-dumb list
Waco v1.2.PNG
So...thoughts? :smile:
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 15:32
so this is pre-CA/VD?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 15:32
Yep
Sadly
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 15:36
what regiment?
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Dec 13 2018 15:36
what rules pack is it using Joe? is this ITC based or generic
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 15:41
i like the brigade, but i'm not a fan of any of those elites
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 15:58
Cadian regiment. In my head-fluff they're all survivors of the Fall and are part of the Celestne Crusade
ITC Champs missions
The Officer of the Fleet is there to make the Vulture better
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 16:04
yeah, but most of the reason why the vulture is good is because it can go anywhere and hit anything. if you're leashed to within 18" of the officer, you'd be better off with a punisher russ
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 16:18
He's not necessary, he's definitely opportunistic
But when he does help, it's significant
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 16:23
eh, rr1s isnt actually that much. if you had a couple other flyers he would be much more valuable, but with just the one i dont rate it
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 16:23
Oh, I agree
But there are those special moments when you hover the Vulture and unload on something the OotF has designated...and hitting on 3s rr1s is pretty sexy.
...and the only way to do that with a Russ is to take the punisher on a TC
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 16:25
that's a very situational usage
but I imagine it winds the opponent up dramatically
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 16:26
And honestly I prefer the Vulture
I use it like an assassin
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 16:26
yeah, 1:1 the vulture is better than a russ
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 16:26
So...25 points for the occasional extra murder shot?
(20 after CA, damn it)
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 16:27
but i'd rather have a TC than a vulture and an officer
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 16:27
Sure
But (right now) that's almost 250 points
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 16:28
how much is it without all the toppings?
just punisher and bolter
it's like 190 iirc
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 13 2018 16:29
180
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 16:29
190
Sorry 195
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 16:29
so 10pts more than vulture + officer
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 16:29
So I was very wrong. I keep confusing normal TC with Pask LOL
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 13 2018 16:30
Good job joe lol
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 16:30
well pre-CA there's no reason not to go pask
(assuming you were bringing a cadian TC)
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 16:30
(CADIA FOREVER!)
So...yes
Here's the thing: the 24" range of the punisher makes it harder to murder at range. The punisher makes that possible. The OotF can in very specific situations make that murder even more murder-y
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 16:32
and the rest of the time he's 25pts of nothing
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 16:33
The movement of the vulture has come in waaaaaay more handy many more times than a Russ punisher would
Sure -- agreed
It's a gamble
So replace the OotF with...what?
I'm all ears
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 16:34
ministorum priest
uuh...
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 16:34
NOPE
No combat units for him to buff
Remember....25 points
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 16:36
how much is an astropath, 30?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 16:36
36
I think you can make him cheaper
Yeah you can run him at 30 with no stave
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 16:37
or a command squad with a mortar is 29
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 16:37
you have 26 to play with, because you were 1,999 and 25 :smile:
drop the mortar in the second battalion...??
that gives you 31pts
so the command squad + mortar becomes affordable
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 16:38
See all of this is assuming I want to replace the OotF -- which I really don't, without a very good reason
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 16:38
if you're going double battalion it doesnt have to be an elites choice
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 16:39
True
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 16:39
the current reasoning is "spend the 26 points somewhere else
but I've no idea what to do with it
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 16:41
...and therein lies the problem LOL
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 16:41
but yeah, that's my opinion. i prefer the brigade list, but i'm iffy on those elites
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 16:41
keep the Officer
oh i see
you were talking about the Brigade list, and you have to have 3 elites for the FOC

wheelspin

i'm catching up :smile:
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Dec 13 2018 16:44
yep. not many good choices for cadians in the elite slot
veterans might be passable when CA arrives
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 13 2018 17:11
@CrusherJoe the rest of my army puts out enough anti-infantry dakka that screens don’t worry me too much.
The ideal target for the trick is a gallant, where there is usually only one screen to worry about that is easy to strip down, and then the reason for terminators is they have a relatively good chance to survive knight counterattacks if they don’t kill it outright
but its not really designed for tourney play, mostly as a useful element of a casual list that CAN kill a knight if needed. for serious tournament play the castellan and armigers join my DW
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 13 2018 17:57
Basic points pass on SoB pushed to master
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
Dec 13 2018 17:57
Anyone gonna do Questor Traitoris
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 13 2018 17:57
And I’m already seeing stuff I missed lol
-.-
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
Dec 13 2018 17:59
Or has it not changed
Iain Launchbury
@Mad-Spy
Dec 13 2018 18:06
Yes, me
I'll be doing them and R&H tomorrow night.
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Dec 13 2018 18:19
Yea, Iain has chaos things, though not much changed on them
I think they got the same secondary weapon reductions IK did.
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 13 2018 18:26
Yeah, all this sisters stuff has done is resolve me to only get a small squad to finish out my inquisitorial conclave
tekton
@tekton
Dec 13 2018 18:37
my wife is currently sad at that beta codex- she wanted to get in to 40k with SoB when the new models come out, but has decided to just continue playing video games for now as her hobby
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 13 2018 18:40
well
this is just a beta, and judging by the reactions, the release one will be better
hopefully not FOTM better, but upper-mid/lower-high tier
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 13 2018 19:28
All the major changes (not rules or profiles though, they wait till I have a copy of CA) are live for sisters on master
The amount of No Force Org shenanigans is... yeah lol
8 units move, triggered by 3 (technically 6) different unit choices
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 13 2018 20:15
So
Apparently
The limited edition ADB book
That BL is selling for $140
Has rules included in it
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 20:35
ADB???
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 13 2018 20:35
Aaron Dempski-Bowden
This
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 20:41
404 error
Try that one
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 20:43
same :frowning:
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 13 2018 20:43
Weird
It’s working on my phone
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 20:44
very strange
perhaps its US only...?!?!?!?!
I'll tell you what's strange - I google it, the first hit is "correct" - click the link = 404 error
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 13 2018 20:48
Hmm
Weird
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 20:49
yup, so I found the Warhammer Community article that introduced it
clicked the link
404 error
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Dec 13 2018 20:50
CONTROVERSIAL!
...though it worked for me
@tekton I feel your wife's pain, I really do
However, now is a good time to get in on Sisters -- I'll bet you'll be able to find things on ebay now
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 20:52
that one worked
but it includes the en-US tag in the link
anyway, looks like its only a Chapter Tactics card in the full boxed set
and that's a good point @CrusherJoe I've held off buying anything sisters becausae they've always been expensive
if enough people rage quit the prices of sexy metal will drop
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Dec 13 2018 20:58
If sisters drop below $3 a mini it’ll be a goddamn miracle
That’s what kasrkin have been stuck at literally forever lol
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 13 2018 21:39
and I couldn't order mine until tomorrow :(
I'm HOPING that it's just a temporary
because missing out would fucking suck
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 21:41
yeah, that does seem a little premature
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
Dec 13 2018 21:49
I bought the admech battleforce on eBay. Need all those extra units to make it work I think
Simon Porter
@FarseerVeraenthis
Dec 13 2018 21:53
still available on the UK website
along with (in the New Releases section) the drop pod...
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 13 2018 22:17
DP was just a rebox I believe
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Dec 13 2018 22:22
interesting
with the points drops on both, a dakka repulsor and LRC come out to roughly the same cost, and likewise for a regular LR vs twinlas/talon rep
Adam Vollrath
@axisofentropy
Dec 13 2018 22:37
Feel like the 2+ save gives Land Raider the edge over the Fly keyword