These are chat archives for BSData/wh40k

7th
Jan 2019
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Jan 07 01:06
@all i am to drunk to do heavy scrolling here, but if you want to do language support i could probably translate every cat to german since i have all english books as pdf and can get the german ones rather cheap. but i want to say, that you will probably get a lot of RAW issues since the translations are bad. seriously, the german translation tends to be another game. if this is any indication to the general translation quality, i would suggest you file this as "nice new year resolution that aint gonna happen". also have fun getting issues in different languages
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Jan 07 01:15
@Space Wolves Players: which forum do you greasy hairy space vikings use? i started sw recently and was looking for some clues. all forums (including reddit to my surprise) seem to be like "we are fluffy wolves and dont make competetive lists, because we are so fluffy"
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 07 01:27
dakka, warhammer competitive
mostly the second one
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Jan 07 01:43
thx
OftKilted
@OftKilted
Jan 07 06:23
@amis92 so for these “language version” who gets to fix the repo related issues? 40k, as an example, is entirely rapid development... and without an automatic translation system any verbiage changes do they then need to be updated by the language maintainer before the main version goes to production ... And as @H4lek1n mentioned ... who (in theory) will handle the RAW issues? If the language maintainer poofs, whose responsibility is it to ensure that the language version is current?
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jan 07 08:18

@H4lek1n
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/762775.page

24 pages of howling about the wolftime for you

Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 07 08:26
@OftKilted same as it all works currently. Translations will be just another person's responsibility. All translation issues will be labeled as such, and if the maintainer poofs, either someone else picks it up or it dies. I'm pretty sure that if we start doing it people will come to help as you did at some point in time.
Honestly, the most issues will be with rule wordings, because the logic won't change. And those are of least priority.
The only things getting translated will be Names, Profiles and Rules. Maaaybe Books.
And for profiles, only actual non numeric content
Of course it's a long shot but it's a recurring topic and I'm considering doing it.
H4lek1n
@H4lek1n
Jan 07 09:30
@sk_Father_Price_twitter thx, that leaves me waiting for the faq even more impatient^^
did they somewhere mention a timeline for the CA18 faq? if your codex did come out in the last 8 months CA seems to skrew you royally
evertonpendragon
@evertonpendragon
Jan 07 10:37
Hi guys.
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 07 10:38
Hi!
Welcome to the chat, I suppose you've read the updates in BSData/catalogue-development#15
evertonpendragon
@evertonpendragon
Jan 07 10:40
Having different languages under the same repo would increase the download size as we need to create new cat and bst files to every language. We are talking about 2,5mb per language
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 07 10:41
The result would be that instead of a single .bsr, the process would produce a "primary" BSR file and additional one for every localization/translation.
It's a quote of a message from the discussion
evertonpendragon
@evertonpendragon
Jan 07 10:43
Each one with a exclusive game system id, I guess
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 07 10:43
I do see a lot of value in separating localizations into repositories, but one huge issue will be synchronizing the data.
No, I'd say the game system ID should be the same
So you can reload the roster in any language you want.
evertonpendragon
@evertonpendragon
Jan 07 10:45
The script I created helps with that issue. It downloads the cat files from wh40k repo and do the translation using a dictionary file that consists in a json file with the English text and its equivalent in Portuguese
It could be done to any language
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 07 10:47
Sure, and then what?
Who runs the script?
On what basis?
The script and dictionary file themselves are not a problem.
The problem is the automation of the processes: development, releasing, publishing, actual usage.
evertonpendragon
@evertonpendragon
Jan 07 10:49
But even if we have different cat and bst files under the same repo, would we be able to download only the language pack we want?
I would be responsible to maintain the Portuguese translation :D
And I know three or four guys that are interested too
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 07 10:55
There are no BST files, either GST or BSR.
Yes
That'd be the point.
evertonpendragon
@evertonpendragon
Jan 07 11:10
Sorry, I meant gst
evertonpendragon
@evertonpendragon
Jan 07 11:17
If you want to test one translated repo:
There is no conflict with the official wh40k since it has its own gamesystemId
There rest is the same as the original. Only rules and descriptions were translated
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jan 07 11:25

guys, wonder if you can help me out on something, trying to get an escalation league together and set limits on Power Level >

is there a list of all the units across the game .. or is it possible to trawl the BSData files for a spreadsheet of units and their PL cost ?

Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 07 11:34
you could probably get the base costs of units quite easily from the data files. modified stuff would be trickier
Price Van-Saint
@sk_Father_Price_twitter
Jan 07 11:49
cheers Will
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 07 11:52
I still say #15 is a bad idea in general.
Not the idea itself
But actually doing it
evertonpendragon
@evertonpendragon
Jan 07 12:43
I don't see it as a bad idea as long as there are maintainers for the localizations.
The translation itself would be a hard work, but once the dictionary is completed, the work would consist in update the repository, that is the normal job for maintain
Maintain a repo*
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 07 12:45
@evertonpendragon the problem there is getting a dedicated enough Corps of people to do so
40k is very much the exception to the rule of BS repos, not the example
Most other bs repos are maintained by 1 or 2 people
As @WindstormSCR pointed out, that’s simply impossible with something like 40k
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 07 12:47
@alphalas then we do it for 40k only. It's all buy-in; ie if there are people who want to do that, why not allow them.
It's about creating the possibility.

And I don't see a problem with having new stuff being not-translated and defaulting to english.

We keep English as the primary thing, and the translations are optional, opportunity-based, non-blocking additions.

evertonpendragon
@evertonpendragon
Jan 07 13:18
@alphalas I have 3500 rules entries in the dictionary, translated by google. Its accuracy is 80%. What am I doing now is adjusting the 20%
I count also with the help from 2 colleagues. And this number can increase
My repo is based in the main wh40k repo, and once it's updated I need only to run the script, generate the bsr file and update it in git
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jan 07 13:30

@WindstormSCR I played around a bit with your CP at work.
Looks really nice! Only problem I currently have is that it does double-add the base 3 CP when creating a list with 2 battalions. Changing the stratagems to substract the CP is as easy as it can get. I'd remove the CP cost in the names though, cause that looks just weird (e.g. field commander stratagem(-1 CP) (-1CP) since it shows the cost in the list anyway.
I just wished we could hide these entries... but alas...

I'll change the entries in AdMech and DA now :)

Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 07 13:39
yeah, having to remove "Base CP" is clunky
how does this work with stuff like knights?
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 07 14:13
I haven't played around heavily yet, but it won't be pretty
at all.
Anyone here use Android and have the issue I posted in BS repo?
Big Jon's pretty much ghosted himself since June
only thing he does is post Xcom vids.
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 07 14:33
I haven't seen anything like that particularly
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 07 14:34
I'm wondering if it's a Pie bug :/
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 07 14:34
Every time I try to renew my Supporter Pass, I get this:

Details:

java.io.IOException: Failed to connect to URL: Bad Request (400)
at net.battlescribe.a.c.a.a(BattleScribe:113)
at net.battlescribe.a.c.a.a(BattleScribe:79)
at net.battlescribe.desktop.d.d.a(BattleScribe:292)
at net.battlescribe.desktop.a.b$3.a(BattleScribe:248)
at net.battlescribe.desktop.a.b$3.doInBackground(BattleScribe:243)
at javax.swing.SwingWorker$1.call(Unknown Source)
at java.util.concurrent.FutureTask.run(Unknown Source)
at javax.swing.SwingWorker.run(Unknown Source)
at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor.runWorker(Unknown Source)
at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor$Worker.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 07 14:34
which would be a shame, it's pretty debilitating for android.
Yea, that pops up on reddit every now and then, but no real answer
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 07 14:35
So what do we need to do?
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 07 14:36
occasionally Jonski appears and solves it, but idk what the solution actually is
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jan 07 14:39

that is some class structure... a.c.a.a?
Looks like at some point with specific configuration (since it doesnt always appear) some string parameter or something gets constructed wrongly and the server can not handle the resulting request... just guestimating.
If thats the case, there's pretty much nothing we can do beside decompile, reproduce and debug to find the issue..

Whats the problem with Knights and CP?

Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 07 14:41
they get different amounts of CP depending on which units you put in the detachment
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jan 07 14:43
oh.
That's the 7th circle of modifier hell.
@CrusherJoe have you tried any of this? ^
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jan 07 14:44
Did you try turning it off and on again?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 07 14:45
Right
I tried that Friday, no joy, tried signing out and back in, joy this time
So I'm just going to go over there --> and hide under a rock or something
Will Pattison
@GenWilhelm
Jan 07 14:49
just another unexplained mystery ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 07 14:52
I've tried big Jon every way I can. We'll see if I can summon him lol
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 07 15:01
Retweeted for effect
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 07 15:01
Danke
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 07 15:15

@evertonpendragon
If what you're saying is that you're actually creating a new translation for 40k, I honestly don't think that's going to be supported by us here no matter whether we do have localization or not. Essentially, it's fan-made.

What I had in mind is providing localizations in languages GW offers 40k in as well (French, German, Spanish, etc), so that we have actual, official materials to copy from.

I'll be honest, I don't see us including Google-Translate+community translated files. Too much issues possible.
evertonpendragon
@evertonpendragon
Jan 07 15:18
Yes, it's fan made. My idea was to fill the lack of Portuguese material
The GW supported languages have their codexes in it's native language, so it would be easier.
"Easier", as you meef to extract the text from the books
But as I said, it would be a pilot. I would maintain the Portuguese translation with help from WH Brazilian community
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 07 15:23
@H4lek1n I've found the Wolves forum on Bolter & Chainsword to be non-useless
evertonpendragon
@evertonpendragon
Jan 07 15:23
If you look deeper, battle scribe is fan made
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 07 15:24
*transcribed from official sources.
And even those official sources, in their native language, cannot get things 100% consistent grammar wise.
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 07 15:25
^this
We do nothing that isn’t laid down by GW
We’re pretty strict about that
evertonpendragon
@evertonpendragon
Jan 07 15:26
Yes, and its hard printed in the books, there is no community to improve them
Ok, I understand totally
Do you think that it would a problem if I keep a independent repo?
May call it BSDataBrasil?
May I*
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 07 15:44
Sure. Also keep in touch with us, because if we do the localizations you'll probably need or want to use that in some capacity! :)
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 07 15:45
@amis92 I think he’s asking for the repo to be hosted on appspot
evertonpendragon
@evertonpendragon
Jan 07 15:45
Sure, I'd be very happy to contribute
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 07 15:46
Okay can we take a moment to talk about how awesome Astartes part 3 is?
That multi-laser woohoo
Man if only muhreenz were as good on the table as they are in the fluff
evertonpendragon
@evertonpendragon
Jan 07 15:48
@alphalas not actually, I'm keeping a git account with the name "BSDataBrasil"
But, is it possible to host it on appspot?
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 07 15:48
Is that an Alpha Legionnaire sending cultists off to the slaughter?
Jon Kissinger
@alphalas
Jan 07 15:49
Previously @amis92 has said no
Or else the Hersey in 8e fan dataset would be hosted on appspot too ;)
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jan 07 15:51
@CrusherJoe yes we can.
You actually can watch it a dozen times and discover small details he added in you missed... its getting more awesome every fucking time.
The quick nade toss at 0:26, the autocannon magazine cylcing when loaded and the barrel recoiling when fired at 0:44, the marine using his training to angle his pauldron into oncoming fire strong enough to pierce his weaker plates at 0:46, the shadow of an astartes appearing with the muzzle flash at 0:49, the ammo counter on the bolter at 1:21, the way the laz marks glow and smoke at 1:29, the smoke physics when the plasma pistol is shot at 1:35 or the sparkles that imply the smoke is filled with actual chaff to disorient scanners.
Now I have to watch it again. ffs.
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 07 15:53
Right? It's...very, very good.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jan 07 15:53
I thought EP1 was awesome. The boarding it EP2 gave me a nerd boner. I want to marry EP3.
I also love the part where the marine casual CRUSHES that guy with the knife stab. I can feel the impact in my chest..
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 07 15:56
And what was he carrying? Was that a melta bomb?
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jan 07 15:56

a wok.
He tried to take on astartes with a wok.

But yes, that's what I figured as well :P

in some depictions they're bowl shaped to better clank on flat tank panels
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 07 15:59
Yeah that rather offhand "pull combat knife and stab in one fluid motion" was bad ASS.
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jan 07 16:00
and the way the armsman stops... not the slightest distance more than the astartes wants him to. dead stop. now.
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 07 16:00
Yep
Also the most realistic demonstrations of the effect a .75 caliber gyro-rocket we call a bolter round has on an unarmored human
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jan 07 16:02
Ep2 does that a bit better, but yeah... if you even check the shots they fire in ep2 with the infrared vision they do when entering - every.bolt.hit.
there is no "wound on 3's" or armour saves.
these are the astartes that make you believe that a company can take a planet.
imagine what 1st company in TDA or the ravenwing could do....
the carnage a Dreadnought can wreak...
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 07 16:06
Exactly
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jan 07 16:06
I think I might need to up my patreon level xD
Joe Beddoe
@CrusherJoe
Jan 07 16:06
wahoooo
LOL
Amadeusz Sadowski
@amis92
Jan 07 16:12

@evertonpendragon

But, is it possible to host it on appspot?

You can follow BSData/catalogue-development#5 - currently, no.

evertonpendragon
@evertonpendragon
Jan 07 16:37
Ah, ok ;)
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 07 16:55
@Thairne in the latest master version the base CP entry should not be auto-adding and simply have a min 1 in roster constraint
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jan 07 17:04
hm I synced today before I did any testing as my data was wildly out of date... I was wondering since you said you removed the auto add.
Lemme resync my files...
WindstormSCR
@WindstormSCR
Jan 07 20:54
I’ll double check mine and update master when I get hom
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jan 07 21:01
no no you did commit it, I can see it in the logs
I just cant get my local to sync to it for some reason
Earl Bishop
@DrTobogganMD
Jan 07 21:09
I mean, it's pretty easy. Delete Master. Download master from github.
Silly git client getting in the way of things
:p
Dirk Bachert
@Thairne
Jan 07 21:12
I actually deleted the gst and resynced and it still showed up with a min constraint ;)
If I didnt see it with my own eyes in the logs..
unless there is some git thing that I miss since I'm familiar with SVN
otoh it really doesnt bother me that much to dive too deep into it anyhow