the thing is
then you have to duplicate that obnoxious structure in EVERY cat
as it stands now, its loaded once, referred to, and is easy to edit if CP values change
is it nice and elegant? fuck no
but it works without bloat for any and every force
IK being the sole exception
@/all this is why I support keeping the current setup with knights as a specific exception (just put the logic in the GST for the SHD and tie it to IK:Titanic or something
or even Knights:Titanic and use the same logic and marker for renegades
Also unbound forces do not have CT or equivalents, nor do mixed forces
so tying two things together that are not related in rules solely for dropping one item on a display, seems iffy
@Kohato if you want I can make the knights flag in the GST, or you can, but it should be easy to make work for IK and renegades
I really need to learn to look before diving into a project...
what did you dive into
Building an entire cat for Gloomspite Gitz because I was impatient....
All in the past 4 hours.
This is what happens when I get bored and don't want to hobby
Lmao
Hey, AOS might appreciate it, I know they hadn't finished it yet.
Also @WindstormSCR Go ahead - I won't be getting to it tonight. Can you make it "Faction: Imperial Knights"
Yea, IK is the sole icky one and I'd rather not go the chaos route of a custom force type that will just cause problems and confusion (Like it did for chaos knights) so if the category is in GST that might work :D
Will do tomorrow
well, technically today
and its not faction IK, since you need to differentiate titanic and non titanic, because armigers
I’ll make a thing that works
Titanic is already there so I can. Just the one faction ik should work. I can do and or groups.
I quite like the new Commisaress
it is a nice model
Lol
You'll stop laughing once Cawl gets hit for 5 dmg with Ap-4 in the face when charging , whiffs completely with his Arc Scourge when flailing at a Starweaver and then gets shot off the table with a total of 2 shots.
Fusion Pistols are a freaking menace.
@Thairne that's what you were talking about when you said the elfies scared you
I was wondering
yeah, elves are insane. when the're played well (and don't whiff all their rolls) it feels like there's nothing you can do against them
yeah it was a pretty confounding change
We were at T2 and it was pretty late, I had a pretty big advantage looking at the table and I offered to quit with a victory to me
opponent wasnt content with that and wanted a draw
nope, I said, I'm going to win this clearly!
well, lets just say the next round was pretty brutal. I'm still shocked how much damage suddenly was pouring out with Ap -3, Ap -4, D3 and D6 damage... a good third of my army simply evaporated
I know that feeling, haywire Vs my double's partners' Knights was somewhat unpleasant
but yes, they do require some finesse
dunno about finesse, to me it looks like "drive up starweavers, shoot. Disembark, shoot at point blank, charge, reap skulls, laugh, fall back, shoot&charge again. Repeat until tabled" :P
still reeling a bit to try and come up with something that can counter that
against pure clowns, just volume of fire
yeah I know, make them fail their invuln
theyre all on invulns, so AP means nothing to them
yeah, you do need a heck of a weight of fire though
they're so goddamn quick though and can pile in/consolidate to draw your units into melee...
so stuff like punishers, massed lasguns, autocannons
you'll wound on 3+ and 4+ most of the time, fucking shadowseers..
I also found that they're not super tough in combat - my Apothecary surived a couple of turns against three eldar HQ's
that is true, but the output they have is impressive once they get where they want to be
depends what you're fighting. harlequin characters will happily rip you new one before you get to swing back
i think if you can get the drop on them, they die relatively easily. but theyre just so damn manoeuvrable
and always get first turn due to low unit count
if I seize, he's in trouble
otherwise... uh... *cough
otherwise... uh... *cough
well they just deploy out of LoS then jump forward on their turn
that table looks ace btw
^^
Muchas gracias
Muchas gracias
and the armies look lovely
so far the only thing I can come up with is better bubble wrapping, deploying further back (and pick the appropriate deployment type) then pop one star weaver at a time, whittle down the troupes and charge them, THEN take care of Skyweavers and Voidweavers.
yeah he's made an ace job of airbrushing the checkers on the things... while I rely on admech being busy to not have to highlight much :D
I intend to spice up the terrain with some more chem zone stuff to make it a bit less bland
sounds like a good idea
also, it depends how many skyweavers there are
looking at it I should've deployed the crawlers further back with cawl between them, pull back the screen accordingly and have the fulgurites further back too for counter charges... they did their job, but not without losses from shooting first..
And priorise the starweavers with shadowseers in them, then troupe masters. Ignore solitaire and death jesters because well, you killed chaff, congratz.
He had... 6 I think
two full size squads with haywire cannons will make it a day day for anyone
yeah, 2 with haywire cannons which I took out asap
can one actually fire overwatch from open topped transports?
eh no you can't.
That would've made quite a difference...
That would've made quite a difference...
did your opponent?
depends on the wording on Open-topped, but i dont believe clowns can
yeah, starweaver says "in their Shooting phase", so they can't overwatch
yes he did, but purely out of ignorance not malevolence
I'm not that familiar with transport rules in 8th because.. well. admech :P
I'm not that familiar with transport rules in 8th because.. well. admech :P
hehehehe
no pychic powers while embarked I assume also then... since the model is not on the board...
that's correct
not familiar with psychic rules in 8th because... well. admech :P
goddamn.
I got pretty hosed with that too.
RIP
generally, while you're in a transport you can't do jack
open-topped just gives them permission to shoot out in the Shooting phase
that is quite... less pressure in the first 1 or 2 turns then.
also, more arquebi.
Those HQ's need to disappear FAST.
Those HQ's need to disappear FAST.
I wonder if a vindicare and a culexus...
you need more than a single vindicare
I used one in a game against harlequins and you have no idea how easy it is to fluff a 2+
and then, even if you make you 2+ to hit, and 2+ to wound, it is also easy to fluff you D3 damage
even having said that, you still need at least two turns to kill an HQ with one Vindicare
kind of, but dont have :P
I used him once and he was boss (plus I have 14 CP), but I totally understand single shot risks...
But that's why 4 Arquebi are there for the support.
I used him once and he was boss (plus I have 14 CP), but I totally understand single shot risks...
But that's why 4 Arquebi are there for the support.
and the culexus helps too since he can target the shadowseers too
culexus is excellent
vindicares are just too damn inefficient (same as most snipers)
yeah, if I was starting an Ad Mech army I think I'd look for a way to include as many Arquebi as possible as well
14CP is ... a lot
"simple" brigade with -1 for the aux to bring the culexus
>only running one brigade
laughs in guard
at 1500, I thought that sufficient - especially since he showed up with 7 CP (2 battalions I think - grand harlequin and relics strat)
boy was I wrong.
.... it helps if you have options for each slot that don't feel like a tax
elites and fast attack often feel like taxes. i've taken to running 3x battalion in most of my lists
true, but dragoons are awesome. Elites are a bit worse, but fulgurites for the counter charge or infiltrators are fine (and if you want to get cheap you can bring servitors for 20 a pop)
What I brought
Tau are another one that it’s not hard to double-brig - just everything’s so damn expensive
that's the trick with guard. if you bring only tax units, you have enough left over for expensive stuff ^^
Alright. Have a plan. Feel better. Trauma lessened. Want to kill elfies again.
beautiful
the BSData support group wins again
doesnt that make you a traitor on your own kind? :P
Or did you see my defeat in the strands of fate and engineer my downfall by boosting my ego so I actually enter combat again?
Or did you see my defeat in the strands of fate and engineer my downfall by boosting my ego so I actually enter combat again?
ELDAR TRICKERY!
"...three answers, all of which are true..."
and you didn't specify which elfies
all of them :P plus I expect drukhari too next time
those dark ones actually enjoy being killed so..... go wild
and you never really kill harlequins, just damage their clothing so they get upset and have to run off to fix it
hehe
gaudy space elves... next time I'll throw mudballs at them
gaudy space elves... next time I'll throw mudballs at them
they'll hate it
:thumbsup:
:cry:
@FarseerVeraenthis you get a free pass
:kiss:
As you don't seem to be "one of those" Eldar players
For example
Thank you :-)
:+1:
There's one that has forced me to start calling his faction Whinenarri
oh dear...
what doe he whine about??
He's been bitching about the Castellan
lel
And Guard
And how unfair it is that some other faction has been on top other than Ynarri for 16 weeks
And how the Castellan needs to be nerfed (it probably does) and how ridiculous Guard are (they really aren't)
>plays the direct counter to something
>complains about it anyway
>complains about it anyway
So I said, "You know how you feel right now? How you've been feeling since Ynarri aren't the top cheesemonger army right now?"
"Yes."
righto, "if you can't beat them, join them"... so, either figure out how to wreck the Castellan or buy one - either way, stop moaning :smile:
"That's how the rest of us have felt about Eldar for the last 3 fucking editions of the game. Shut. Up."
hehehehehe
I still have my wraithknight trauma from 2013...
hilariously, I built a 500point list with a wraithknight in it the other day
I'll show your WK trauma and raise you Tri-Falcon Flying Circus PTSD from 4E
2013 != 2019 :P
that was 6th level monstrous creature bullshit
that was 6th level monstrous creature bullshit
i still feel ashamed for using the words "casting invisibility on the wraithknight" in a game once
See
I see your Tri-Falcon PTSD and extrapolate that it was my second game ever and I had 2 tactical squads on the table in a 2on1 :P
i love playing cheese, but that was a major oof
just because i'm taking part in what is supposed to be a fluffy escalating campaign with my friends, and their lists were not what I would call "fluffy" in the theme of the campaign
That those words exist is why I never felt shame for using the words, "I cast Invis on the wolfstar...that goes off, cool...now I cast Veil of Time on the wolfstar..."
invisibility was so broken lol
and yes, don't worry, I'm not good enough to make a tournament winning army work properly anyway
I only had to deal with invisible heldrakes...
I see your Tri-Falcon PTSD and extrapolate that it was my second game ever and I had 2 tactical squads on the table in a 2on1 :P
I am extremely good at rolling badly and losing dramatically
Okay....that's....pretty bad @Thairne
and yes, @Thairne wins
"Holofield? What's that do?"
"Magic"
"Sun what?"
Just to add that guy is the definition of TFG. Hairloss, pony tail, body odour and starts singing "its time to say goodbye" when you loose models.
Sounds like the kind of guy I used to carry a crowbar in my bag named "Jaws of the World Wolf"
Because it was a 24 inch line (of cold steel) that made stupid shit disappear
lol xD
(or at least be unconscious)
I should've "accidentally" knocked that thing off the table... but I was young and didnt now shit
Believe me, Wolves have been guilty of some Eldar-level crimes
JotWW in 5th was bonkers
I remember thunder wolves cav.
it wasnt pretty.
No. It wasn't.
I had some really assy players in the local meta...
And while I lament the TWC Kennels of Sadness & Shame right now, I get it
"See that guy over there that started 3 months ago? lemme play my wolfstar! Or my Speed freaks!"
Gotta pay for your crimes at some point
not if you're a knife ear, apparently
I've taken to bringing two different armies for Thursday's 40K night at the FLGS
My regular army and some speeche murheenz
So I don't accidentally commit the crime of Baby Seal Clubbing
Completely off topic but I know some of you will enjoy this as much as I do...
Pardon the mess; he’s not been driven for close to a year so is sort of a storage unit
There is NO replacement for Displacement
perfect
I'm glad that was SFW because I just pressed play
Lol
Perfectly swf
(I'm feeling a little maverick this afternoon - too many people asking too many stupid questions and too much stupid shit to sort out)
Just wish audio hadn’t clipped like it did
Those throttle blips were far more dramatic in person
yeah, well, you never get a good sound recording of an engine with a phone
unless you try very hard / know what you're doing / are very lucky :smile:
Just look at that torque!
Lookit!
Croikey lol
K I’m done. Had enough of being out in British weather for now lol
Nothing like the sound of a V8
5.7 liters, 350 cubic inches of awesome
yup, that is plenty of displacement
CrusherJoe @CrusherJoe just leaves that here
I mean...you say that @FarseerVeraenthis
I've driven a blown 403 Olds in an 81 F-body
Car had wheelie bars
Try the 454 hd in an f-body joe
I got back from my test drive, tossed the owner the keys. "You like it?" "Of course I do. What's not to like?" "Do you want to buy it?" "Aw hell no. I'd die in that car."
My buddy had the firebird with the 454
Or a blown (supercharged) 454 in a 7x Stingray
He pulled all the emissions shit off it
(72? or 3? 4? I....don't remember)
Put a cam it it
And blew the doors off dedicated drag cars
He was also really good at bracket racing too
I lost exactly one race in my Camaro
To a guy
In a 70s Ford F150
I don’t think chuck actually ever lost a bracket race
By half a car length
But he was stupid good with ETs
He knew that car
After, I did the thing that was always done to me after a race. "Allrighty...what's under the hood?"
"351 Cleveland."
"Yeah, that'll do it."
Yeah those Cleveland motors
Probably bored like .40 over
So in reality now a 370ish cid motor
Torquey is what they were
And lots of it
With a Top-Loader 4-speed manual
So...yeah
LOL
't'weren't no shame in losing to that.
@Kohato the problem is
you can't validate on just titanic
because many units are titanic
it needs to specifically be on cerastus/dominus/questoris/acastus frames
Mmm those rockcrusher 4speeds
I still love the poncho 400 though
That motor was a torque MONSTER
I still think the t-56 is the best transmission to mate to any small block Chevy though without going esoteric
4 gears of awesome and 2 OD gears
I miss my project car from before college, but circumstances neccessitated selling it :(
got an RX8 that was relatively new, but the idiot that owned it before had fucked the motor (combo of flooding the rotary, bad maintenance, etc) so it was more or less a perfect RX8 body sans engine
Noice
I have an extreme dislike for rotaries
But it’s of no fault of the motors themselves
so you were going to drop something "different" in it??
Back when I worked at the drag strip they had “Import day”
I had a Ford Capri 2.8i, that had a nice 4-speed
Every codger there had souped up turbo’d rotaries running on alcohol
That was a miserable day on starting line
@FarseerVeraenthis Fox body or 90s?
it was a MK3, 1983, so.....
worked for an entire summer, and stuffed a Mistral G-300 aircraft engine in there, with a stealthed super
similar to that but without the crappy pepperpot wheels
@WindstormSCR yeah, that's definitely "different" :smile: :+1:
Thankfully my father, being an engineer, was able to help make the transmission work, as I had gone out of my way to find a partially damaged but repairable caddilac hybrid transmission (switches between manual and auto at neutral)
fabulous
Hmm was it still cortina based?
that RX-8 went like fuck
hmmm.... I don't think the capri shared much cortina stuff at all from new...??
and I can imagine the RX8 did rather shift!!
Because in the 80s the merc capris were Fox bodies
I never got a proper 0-60 on it, to my regret
but it was damn near 400hp in that little frame
That’s the Fox body one
Basically a rebadged better looking mustang
imagine that with a super under the hood of an RX-8 and managing somehow to keep it nearly stock aside from a slimline super intake (slot-type) along the hood
at least looking stock
Mmm noice
gas milage was surprisingly good too in auto :D
~27ish city driving
@FarseerVeraenthis yeah apparently the US market Fox Capri was just that, US only
The euro/UK Capri was always quasi-cortina based
I always wanted one of these
Drop a 5.0 in it and MMMMMMMMMMM
sounds groovy to me
and I actually did complete an auction on eBay for a 4x4 Sierra
but while arranging to pick it up I received a message that unfortunately it had been "stolen" from the garage it was being stored at so I couldn't complete the auction
well, the collection
Did you at least get the money back?
I'm pretty sure the dude expected the bidding to take of, and when it didn't he realised that he hadn't set a Reserve and was basically giving the car away
(well, £400, but they are worth more than that)
It was Cash on Collection
so, no harm, no foul
but I was looking forwards to getting one - my dad had one and it was a monster
Yeah the Sierra/Merkur were sexy sexy cars
About the only ford products I genuinely like for more then oh it’s a mustang
hehehehe
@WindstormSCR If I validate: "Is FACTION: IK AND IS TITANIC" I shouldn't need any more.
you need something to set it to zero as well
Because all IK has is Titanic (Valid for 6CP) or Non Titanic (Not valid for CP)
for armigers
Right. IS FACTION IK and IS NOT titanic
more specifically, >2 and <1
right, just remember to make it so that SHD defaults to 3cp in the failover of no ik
more than 2 titanic gives 6, less than 1 gives 0, otherwise gives 3.
I'll discard my changes then
Least amount of duplication :D
and go make a cup of tea
stuff the IK faction tag in GST then
And mostly I don't want to introduce categories that are not actually keywords on the tag
Enjoy, I'll do a QA pass once you push just to make sure it works in all configs
Cool :D
which reminds me
I need to go through all my Cats and double check that CP costs are in where they need to be
and make the fucking DE patrols thing work
that's going to be a trip
though I'm pretty sure I can do that one in the DE cat
if it can work how I think
DE Patrols?
like for the CP display?
Could shove the Faction: DE into GST and change the name there
probably just add an entry to the DE catalogue and validate off the number of patrols you have
Easy peasy :D
ah, you're changing the detachment name. i was looking at the "Detachment CP" and thinking it looked the same lol
Yea, I still dont' like that entry - i'll take a look at cleaning it up in IK next.
But changing detachment name is still needed for IK too, so this works
@Mad-Spy I can rig this for chaos knights too if you want to go back to the normal detachment
As for the actual point cost counter
This adds up costs cleanly without extra entries I think
But, That's not something I can implement without discussion first since the CP counter is added in at a GST level to every cat.
Also, Any reason there's 2 of them in the GST?
"Detachment CP" and "Battle-forged CP"
So in all - what I'd like to do is:
GST - Remove Detachment CP from being required in every cat on a non changeable basis, Add "Faction: Imperial Knights" and "Faction: Questor Traitoris" (In case @Mad-Spy wants to move back to the normal SHD), change SHD name based on titanic count in the above two factions.
Then in IK and Necrons, add in CP costs at the Household Traditions/Dynastic Code level so it is seamless and requires no additional entries added to lists.
Ik and Crons you guys probably don't care :p but I wanted to make sure on GST things before I change them.
@kohato please no
thats a whole fuckload of unneeded duplication and tying things together that arent in rules
and has a BIG readability problem since the header changes, but “detachment cp” doesnt
it means EVERY catalog will have to have the CP garbage baked in
indtead of JUST the gst
its fundamentally problematic, and you didn’t read at all what I posted lat night
On the flip side, It's very ... not clean to have something forced on all cats like that.
nothing about CP tracking is clean
its a fucking hackjob that sucks
Yep
but it works, and works with the minimum possible workload on all other maintainers at present
not “drop this non-copyable gigantic conditional set onto a place it shoukdn’t even belong”
What I linked is all GST links so should copy with out issue actually.
but that's an aside.
as for detachment and battle forged: you only get battle forged once on the roster level
Ah right - I'm tracking now
detachment happens for every single one, so if you have three, you need cp tracks for each but the +3 from battleforged only once
I was thinking of them as the same for some reason
so can you please put the knights CP changes into detachment CP instaed of a different modifier
or we’ll just get more bugs
It'll need to stay in the detachment re-namer as well
but that's fine
It sucks, but shit like force-level CP fuckery will have to be done in GST
we can rip it all out and make it clean on v2.dragon or whatever
Yea, I've lost all hope for that version
Jon seems to have stopped caring about the app.
but for now there has actually been some positive feedback from comp people and community about BS showing detachment CP in nfo
Oh I agree showing the CP totals is great.
I'm just not a fan of the presentation and not being able to fix it :(
I wonder
same, but it is what it is
Might Jon be maintaining radio silence for other reasons?
who knows
As a developer operating a subscription level application, I can't see an acceptable reason to go pure blackout
If he were still on a pro purchase? sure, he still accepts subscription money for a product he has seemingly abandoned.
@Kohato didn’t you get a response from him recently?
might be time to attempt to make contact
A token "Yea, I'll take a look" - the new version hasn't been updated on git in 7 months.
Sorry if I sound crass, I don't expect devs to cowtow to every demand, but it irks me to see things like subscriber passes getting time out errors and an application not being updated for months.
I’m wondering if maybe he’s NDA’d.
Like working on the official GW product?
I hope GW doesn’t buy bs, because well, they can’t even get combat roster right and the official AoS points thing is a mess
@Kohato that’s what I’m thinking maybe
He’s somehow involved in a official GW product)
Here's hoping GW is prepared to support it if that's the case.
Because they're 0/2 for correct support on tools at the moment.
Agreed
But I mean they contracted rich boyland (dude behind helsreach) for BA show
what makes me laugh
is yes there will be the framework
True, reaching out to community figures for official things is great, I'm a fan of that.
but a lot of the current BS “magic” is done in here to make the rramework tick
What if they’re leaning into that to fix the official builders?
@WindstormSCR agreed
Hey I'd love that
But we all know if I’m right gw’s still getting the short end of the stick since we all make it work
Like I said, support is what is needed.If they're prepared to support it, in whatever form, it can work fine.
Hell the current AOS/40k list makers would be fine if they kept up support.
tbh
I’d help do the support for a pittance, because I want something that works
Sadly, offers like that are nonstarters when it comes to a published product, unless the product is offered as an open ended framework (like BS)
Cause I think most of us here would too :p
Also wat wat wat?
The newest 2.xx build from back in june: Game Systems can no longer import Catalogues (leads to too many problems)
Well fuck a duck I thought that was the whole point of the new version
no, it was catalogs importing other catalogs
Ohh alright
Whew
@WindstormSCR
About to commit the GST changes
just so you know what did change - the Force name change I linked earlier, and then this:
Validates fine in IK and doesn't activate in Necrons
as intended
you'd said you wanted to validate too :D
IK has the CP costs correct in the strats/WT as well now - doing crons so those will both be fully implemented :)
:+1:
I'll be doing DE/CWE/Custodes and others tonight, just checking that everything has cp costs where needed
Huh, crons don't have a +CP WT
sad day
So #4503 - ok, fair it’s a bug
Why the fuck are you not taking punisher cannons?
older model witha fixed loadout maybe?
I built my old one before punishers were a thing
and 4x MRP used to be a common-ish loadout
And crons done.
Fair I guess
If Iain wants to move back to a normal SHD for Chaos Knights, he should be able to piggy back off of my IK And Groups
for CP and name changes.
shrugs
back from errands, time to poke the shitfest that is DE detachments
eyyyy
the easy method works
also fixed up my cats for relic strat costs and calgar/robot CP additions
@Kohato going to subject yourself to some masochism implementing orks vigilus stuff?
Fuck I tried at like 10p the other night and gave up
Also wind. What if you have a multi detachment.
Does it count those?
I'll take another look tomorrow at work and see if I can make sense of it when I'm awake
it does
do you want me to do it?
I've done space marines and Craftworlds no issue
I think I can wrangle orks after dinner
the biggest part is just getting the warlord trait logic in
Realisically
I can do wolves too :P
if you want @CrusherJoe
I'm not going to be able to do the Vigilus stuff or...yeah
I was going to say I'm neck-deep in stuff until LVO
I don't mind doing it so it's standard across cats and there are examples to work off for furute
also
Yes sir please do
the method I'm currently using is future-proofed so any faction with them will just be able to have new stuff slotted in to the SSEgs
if they released a surprised space marine one right now I could bang it in in 10min
Well that's fucking awesome man. Good work!
CrusherJoe @CrusherJoe is continually impressed with what manages to be accomplished here.
just 3 entries, 1 for the WLT and one for the detachment itself, 1 for the relic
Also
Have we heard a word from Jon concerning the supporter passes? Or v2.leprechaun?
also
while I'm making with the updates
should I just do a pass on all cats for CP costs on relic strats?
just to head off a likely annoying shotload of bugs