@lefticus can you give me a brief summary of your programming background. mainly what age did you start and with what language and how you progressed to now? I would love to follow in your foot steps. I think we might be similar age and your knowledge with programming is like 10x mine. I started with Visual Basic in highschool back in 1997, then took Computer Science and Engineering in college where I took my first C++ course in 2000 using Borland C++. I then changed majors and started teaching myself C++ again a couple years ago which was a kick to the nuts when I learned about how much C++ has changed since the time I was taught it to now with all the new additions from the Standards Committee.. Right now Im re-learning C++ from the ground up.. going through C++ 99 to C++03 to C++11, 14, and eventually and hopefully soon ill have 14 and 17 learned like it was second hand knowledge. This way I will know what these new additions help "fixed" on the old language and why they were added which has actually proven to be difficult since I still dont have a big picture understanding of the language. So when I hear you talk I can tell you already know all that.. i.e. as a simple example. Use Vectors instead of Arrays because of this and that... Back when I learned the language Arrays were the only option and now Im learning why the new addition is better than the older used code.