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    Jeremy D. Miller
    @jeremydmiller

    Not interested in it if it is complete framework that basically replaces MVC.
    Is interested in it if it is more of a library built on top of or works side by side with MVC.

    Would love to see

    • behavior chains (russian doll modelled)
    • one model in / one model out controllers
    • routes derived off of input models
    • automatic content negotiation (view discovery)
    • view editors and displays and the ability to apply html conventions
    • localization support (much like fubu did)
    • validation somewhat similar to what was attempted in fubuvalidation
    "
    Ok, so:
    Suhas Chatekar
    @schatekar
    @jeremydmiller tagging things as "up for grabs" is a good idea
    Jeremy D. Miller
    @jeremydmiller
    Right now, my thinking is that Jasper has to be in charge of routing, diagnostics, modularity, IoC integration, and the assembly of OWIN middleware/the BehaviorGraph to effectively do what we want to accomplish. I think we should commit to being able to use most of the MVC6 functionality within a Jasper application, and we’ll definitely support the usage of external OWIN middleware. So in a way, you could absolutely use Jasper all by itself as a whole other FX but still take advantage of MVC6 things. Jasper as an addon to MVC6 probably doesn’t work.
    • behavior chains / Russian doll model — definitely, but this time “behavior” will be the OWIN signature func
    • one model in / one model out controllers — agreed, but I think we need to support other patterns this time too
    • routes derived off of input models — I’d prefer to keep what fubumvc already does
    • automatic content negotiation (view discovery) — ditto above
    And that takes us to where Jasper differs. My thought has been to optimize Jasper’s core for JSON o’er HTTP to support SPA’s first. I’ve pulled the html convention support and some other service side rendering things out of FubuMVC3, but those largely live on in HtmlTags themselves w/ @jbogard really taking over that work. What we could do is to put everything that FubuMVC does today for server side rendered apps into the remaining FubuMVC.Razor package in Jasper. So all of this:
    • view editors and displays and the ability to apply html conventions
    • localization support (much like fubu did)
    • validation somewhat similar to what was attempted in fubuvalidation
    Maybe goes into some kind of Jasper.Razor package.
    Couple caveats to that though:
    • The FubuMVC.Validation and some of FubuValidation code is a mess. #sadtrombone
    Jeremy D. Miller
    @jeremydmiller
    • I think I’d need someone else to fully champion that package because I’m not working on any projects that would use most of that functionality. Doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t help/advise/own, but I can’t take that solo.
    Mike O'Brien
    @mikeobrien
    And that takes us to where Jasper differs. My thought has been to optimize Jasper’s core for JSON o’er HTTP to support SPA’s first.
    here here !
    Jeremy D. Miller
    @jeremydmiller
    Hey all, here’s a concept for streamlined bootstrapping in FubuMVC going forward. It is a change from >1 - 2.2: DarthFubuMVC/fubumvc#871
    Corey Kaylor
    @CoreyKaylor
    I really like that you’re getting rid of all the statics. The port setup can be auto selected similar to LQ and can allow the tests to be parallelized or at least makes it easier to do so.
    Mike O'Brien
    @mikeobrien
    Nice!
    Jeremy D. Miller
    @jeremydmiller
    @jmarnold I haven’t push this through to Serenity yet, but what about this for swapping out OWIN hosts so far: DarthFubuMVC/fubumvc@aea6c63
    Adam Schroder
    @schotime
    This would only help the efforts I would think. aspnet/Announcements#49
    Especially if we need more hooks, now would be the time to join the convo
    Jeremy D. Miller
    @jeremydmiller
    @schotime Yeah, I’ve been mostly letting the dust settle before getting into their internals too much, but it’s probably time to change that. What they’re doing to pull things apart sounds awfully like what we were doing at the tail end of ’12 in fubumvc
    Jeremy D. Miller
    @jeremydmiller
    @katokay, @jmarnold and anyone else, what would you folks think of this: DarthFubuMVC/fubumvc#882
    Suhas Chatekar
    @schatekar
    #882 is meant only for testing?
    Corey Kaylor
    @CoreyKaylor
    It can be for testing, but also for embedded webservers in backend processes. We use this type of thing a lot for diagnostics views into our running applications.
    Suhas Chatekar
    @schatekar
    Should that only run on 127.0.0.1? I ask this as there is no option to specify IP
    Jeremy D. Miller
    @jeremydmiller
    @schatekar Dunno, so far we’ve never ran Katana for anything but testing and embedded diagnostics. What do you envision?
    Suhas Chatekar
    @schatekar
    @jeremydmiller I envision a need to optionally specify ip address as well
    Jeremy D. Miller
    @jeremydmiller
    @CoreyKaylor @jmarnold et al, what do you think about killing off the conditional/profile view feature? DarthFubuMVC/fubumvc#907
    Corey Kaylor
    @CoreyKaylor
    Hasn’t been used by us, so I would vote for getting rid of it.
    Andres Hernandez
    @andhernand
    The use of responsive design makes the conditional/profile view less usefull.
    Corey Kaylor
    @CoreyKaylor
    It potentially has value for client specific profiles, but even then it’s a possibility that we’ve never needed to employ in practice.
    Jeremy D. Miller
    @jeremydmiller
    @andhernand We built it specifically for cases where we thought that responsive design was going to be too hard or you were just going for such a very different layout and interaction. Either way, nobody’s used it since that company folded, so I’m hearing “kill it with impunity"
    Jeremy D. Miller
    @jeremydmiller
    I think I’m calling 3.0 “done for now”, at least until any bugs pop up when this gets put into a real app. There’s plenty more things that could be done, but I’m holding off on any other work until I can start Jasper for real. You can see the log of what was done here: https://github.com/DarthFubuMVC/fubumvc/issues?q=is%3Aissue+milestone%3A3.0+is%3Aclosed
    Mike O'Brien
    @mikeobrien
    You going to push 3.0 to the public nuget feed?
    Jeremy D. Miller
    @jeremydmiller
    I guess there’s no reason why I couldn’t. Wasn’t sure anyone outside of Extend Health would care;)
    Mike O'Brien
    @mikeobrien
    Yeah, doesn't look like we need any of the new bits but I'd bump us if there was a new version.
    Jeremy D. Miller
    @jeremydmiller
    For all the folks who occasionally check in here, I was finally able to start on some experimentation to use postgresql as a full replacement for RavenDb and NEventStore: https://gitter.im/JasperFx/Marten?utm_source=share-link&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=share-link
    “Marten” because they’re one of the very few natural predators of ravens
    Mike O'Brien
    @mikeobrien
    haha, clever
    Jeremy D. Miller
    @jeremydmiller
    Selenium/Mercury
    Joe McBride
    @joemcbride
    Just take care that the icon doesn’t look like this: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4134VJY77WL.jpg
    ;]
    Mike O'Brien
    @mikeobrien
    In that case Tellurium may be cleverer as they are both group 16 elements.
    Jeremy D. Miller
    @jeremydmiller
    @joemcbride I have a surprising number of older friends who were FoxPro guys who love to go on and on about how it was the best thing ever and what a crying shame everything after was
    Selenium is the cure for Mercury poisoning
    Mike O'Brien
    @mikeobrien
    Ok, that is really clever!
    Jeremy D. Miller
    @jeremydmiller
    I was at ThoughtWorks about the time they wrote the very original Selenium just to test their homegrown replacement for the horrendous Lotus Notes based T&E system they had. Don’t think that system ever went anywhere, but the testing tool did;)